Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=Irrefutable;1061302]the real problem is depending on 1 or 2 players to pressure the QB. If you can create some pressure from the front 3, and all the LBs, then you would not need to pay 1 player $$$$$$$

in a good 3-4 all the LBs are a threat to sack the QB


or switch to a 4-3[/quote]

They're not a good 3-4, the nickel 4-3 isn't good either. No pressure when needed, except for the Raider game.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

Saw a few things. One was that orak is not elite because he has no third move lol@that. Freeney had one move.. Guess he wasnt elite either and thats just one example. Raks a force im glad we tagged him. Another was he doesnt show up vs nfc east.. Go back an look at tape.. Thats all just do that.

Welcome back orak!!!

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=skinsfanthru&thru;1061297]Agree to disagree. In a heartbeat I'd take either of those two and 2-3 other starters for the money they are looking at paying Orakpo.[/quote]

Let's see how much Jason W. gets. As for R.Jax, good guy - he has how many sacks?

- Tagging Rak is not going to cost us any free agents we want.
- Rather overpay a homegrown guy than an import.
- Still not seeing anyone suggest a legitimate replacement who could step in and provide what Rak does.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1061370]Let's see how much Jason W. gets. As for R.Jax, good guy - he has how many sacks?

- Tagging Rak is not going to cost us any free agents we want.
- Rather overpay a homegrown guy than an import.
- Still not seeing anyone suggest a legitimate replacement who could step in and provide what Rak does.[/quote]

You better stop making sense, we talked about that.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1061370]Let's see how much Jason W. gets. As for R.Jax, good guy - he has how many sacks?

- Tagging Rak is not going to cost us any free agents we want.
- Rather overpay a homegrown guy than an import.
- Still not seeing anyone suggest a legitimate replacement who could step in and provide what Rak does.[/quote]

How wouldn't he?

Why?

DeMarcus Ware

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1061372]How wouldn't he?

Why?

DeMarcus Ware[/quote]

Ware? you seen the last 2 seasons? He looks like he is broke and i think they find a way for him to finish out in Dallas

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1061258]This is going to be a complete failure of a coaching staff. I do not expect this staff to last long.

[url=http://www.csnwashington.com/football-washington-redskins/talk/redskins-apply-franchise-tag-orakpo]Redskins apply franchise tag to Orakpo | Comcast SportsNet Washington[/url]


No way in fucking hell should Haz have ANY say so. ANY. Hell, the guy shouldn't even have a job now.



[IMG]http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m26nvnNG5o1qkk10ro1_500.jpg[IMG][/quote]

Classy post. You just wanted an excuse to post a giant stick man.

Seriously, T.O. Killa is right. No matter what you think of our defensive coordinator, if he has no say in player personnel, he'll have no chance to succeed and make it work.

I really believe a lot of what caused Haslett to flame out so badly the last seasons was the cap penalty. The defense really got the worst of it after signing some players on offense first, like Garcon and Morgan. After that, there was simply no money left on defensive players that were even starter quality. When he has to start a back end with players no other team even wanted when on the market like Meriweather and Madeiu Williams...you really think he can do his job?

I was in the camp of wanting to see what Haslett can do with a full cap and competitive roster...here's his chance. Our defense DID make some nice goal line stands and got a ton of turnovers and sacks...they just could not consistently stop a team every play and gave up big play. You can attribute that weakness to the safeties and lack of overall defensive depth when we had injuries. Haslett did have some good moments with this poor excuse of a depth chart and I think he can do better now. He comes up with some looks and blitzes that no one else uses, he has the smarts, just not the players.

Now if his defense doesn't improve dramatically this season, good bye. Experiment over.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1061372]How wouldn't he?

Why?

DeMarcus Ware[/quote]

Not sure if you're being sarcastic, but:

1) Because there is still plenty of cap room to sign an additional impact player or two along with solid mid-level guys who can upgrade our OL and DB's.

2) Because it shows a commitment to the team building and cuts down on the "show-me-the-money" attitude in the locker room. I can remember several comments from former players upset that new guys were brought in but the FO let good players walk. (A. Pierce, R.Clark - old, but good, examples).

3) Well, let see if D.Ware hits the market before we talk about plugging him in.

Also, Worilds got a transition tag of 9.75M. Signing him away from the Steelers is easily going to match what we tagged Rak with. Worilds was in a contract year and did well. Not quite the same as the consistent "very goodness" of Rak.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=donofriose;1061286]Rob Jackson... the man who gets suspended coming off his best season and who has less career sacks than Orakpo had last season.[/quote]Jackson has more INTs though. Looking at stats for [URL="http://www.nfl.com/player/brianorakpo/71423/profile"]Orakpo[/URL] and [URL="http://www.nfl.com/player/robjackson/4515/profile"]Jackson[/URL], Rak's tackling numbers are just as impressive as his sacks, to me. But so much depends on how each player was used to drop back or not, and that Rak was the starter not Jackson.

As far as the suspension: [URL="http://news.fredericksburg.com/redskinsjournal/2013/09/30/jarvis-jenkins-rob-jackson-reinstated-from-suspension/"]Jackson was suspended on March 20 after he violated the league’s policy on substances of abuse. He said he took a medication containing codeine that was not prescribed to him to deal with a toothache near the end of last season.[/URL] Jackson's been with us awhile with no other incidents, right? I believe he'll be more like Trent Williams, not Fred Davis, and has found a niche in our 3-4 where we can let Rak go if needed, and upgrade other positions.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

Would signing D.Ware be any cheaper than signing Rak?

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=Lotus;1061459]Would signing D.Ware be any cheaper than signing Rak?[/quote]

SS has to be joking or Vinny hijacked his brain or SS is in a Kush Coma. Ware is done and is getting something like 15 mil per. I dont want that problem.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=Chico23231;1061462]SS has to be joking or Vinny hijacked his brain or SS is in a Kush Coma. Ware is done and is getting something like 15 mil per. I dont want that problem.[/quote]

I wouldn't have brought up his name if it hadn't been mentioned as a possibility. Plus if the Cowboys cut him he's unlikely to get 15 mil on his next contract

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1061469]I wouldn't have brought up his name if it hadn't been mentioned as a possibility. Plus if the Cowboys cut him he's unlikely to get 15 mil on his next contract[/quote]

To me there had to be a better option than D Ware. I mean even half of 15 would be too much, isnt he 32? Thats a Snyretto old school special, and not a smart move. This makes me feel even better about the tag to Rak

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1061469]I wouldn't have brought up his name if it hadn't been mentioned as a possibility. Plus if the Cowboys cut him he's unlikely to get 15 mil on his next contract[/quote]

Well, assuming Ware is released:

(1) Straight up, Ware v. Rak: Who do you want on your team for the next 3 years?

(2) What is your expected value of Ware and why?

I recognize no one is going to pay him 15M, but, as is the course, I expect [I]someone[/I] will make an over the market bid for him (it only takes one team) and that he will command something in the neighborhood of a 5 year contract averaging 7-8M/year with about 20M in guarantees (essentially a 3 year contract) OR a straight up 1 year contract in the range of 8M (give or take) guaranteed.

(3) Assuming Ware at 8M for the year and Rak at 11M, who for this year and what's the plan for the position [I]after[/I] Ware's one year.

(4) Assuming 3 years of Ware at 20M guaranteed and cap hits in the 8M range, would you take that rather than Rak for a real 5 year contract that has about 35M in guarantees and a 10M/year hit in the first 3 years?

Putting in your own numbers - assuming they differ from mine - for (3) and (4), what is your comparison of the Ware v. Rak in the short and longer terms?

Finally, I know you were just throwing out Ware as a possibility, assuming Ware doesn't get released:

(5) What is your post Rak plan? Jackson?

(6) Do you see Rak testing the market and not getting buckets of money thrown at him?

If it isn't clear, I am on the "don't quibble" train. Is Rak worth 11-13M/year? Not based on past performance.

At the same time, to replace him with someone of equal or better quality is going to end up costing either very close to that amount or more. Even if we resign R.Jax, I suspect we will need someone to provide better pass rush than he does. Without doing film study and just basing it on a few of his plays over the past 2 years, it seems to me R.Jax is better in space than Rak, but, in every other aspect of their respective games, Rak is head and shoulders above R.Jax.

Ultimately, for me, it really comes down to value at the position, replacement cost and the preference to slightly overpay for a homegrown as opposed to an import. Rak is not elite, he lacks a lot of game changing plays and he disappears at times. With that said, he is consistently very good, he seems well liked by his teammates, by all credible reports he is not a "me-first" guy and he has fantastic measurables. Balancing all of this, I see replacing Rak as a choice between: (1) Paying a premium for someone or some-several-ones who may or may not bring his consistency to the table; (2) A stop-gap moderately priced filler (R.Jax or an R.Jax type player) who will be much cheap but will be a significant drop off in talent from Rak; or (3) A huge hole to fill that simply is not adequately addressed.

Sure, I'd like the cheap Ferrari but don't see that happening so I'll go with the moderately overpriced Porsche. "A bird in the hand ..." and all that.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1061477]Well, assuming Ware is released:

(1) Straight up, Ware v. Rak: Who do you want on your team for the next 3 years?

(2) What is your expected value of Ware and why?

I recognize no one is going to pay him 15M, but, as is the course, I expect [I]someone[/I] will make an over the market bid for him (it only takes one team) and that he will command something in the neighborhood of a 5 year contract averaging 7-8M/year with about 20M in guarantees (essentially a 3 year contract) OR a straight up 1 year contract in the range of 8M (give or take) guaranteed.

(3) Assuming Ware at 8M for the year and Rak at 11M, who for this year and what's the plan for the position [I]after[/I] Ware's one year.

(4) Assuming 3 years of Ware at 20M guaranteed and cap hits in the 8M range, would you take that rather than Rak for a real 5 year contract that has about 35M in guarantees and a 10M/year hit in the first 3 years?

Putting in your own numbers - assuming they differ from mine - for (3) and (4), what is your comparison of the Ware v. Rak in the short and longer terms?

Finally, I know you were just throwing out Ware as a possibility, assuming Ware doesn't get released:

(5) What is your post Rak plan? Jackson?

(6) Do you see Rak testing the market and not getting buckets of money thrown at him?

If it isn't clear, I am on the "don't quibble" train. Is Rak worth 11-13M/year? Not based on past performance.

At the same time, to replace him with someone of equal or better quality is going to end up costing either very close to that amount or more. Even if we resign R.Jax, I suspect we will need someone to provide better pass rush than he does. Without doing film study and just basing it on a few of his plays over the past 2 years, it seems to me R.Jax is better in space than Rak, but, in every other aspect of their respective games, Rak is head and shoulders above R.Jax.

Ultimately, for me, it really comes down to value at the position, replacement cost and the preference to slightly overpay for a homegrown as opposed to an import. Rak is not elite, he lacks a lot of game changing plays and he disappears at times. With that said, he is consistently very good, he seems well liked by his teammates, by all credible reports he is not a "me-first" guy and he has fantastic measurables. Balancing all of this, I see replacing Rak as a choice between: (1) Paying a premium for someone or some-several-ones who may or may not bring his consistency to the table; (2) A stop-gap moderately priced filler (R.Jax or an R.Jax type player) who will be much cheap but will be a significant drop off in talent from Rak; or (3) A huge hole to fill that simply is not adequately addressed.
Sure, I'd like the cheap Ferrari but don't see that happening so I'll go with the moderately overpriced Porsche. "A bird in the hand ..." and all that.[/quote]

All good points. Ultimately mine is, we are not a good enough team and he's not a good enough player to offer $11MM plus just like that. I hope a reasonable restructure occurs.