Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Giantone;899086][B]I'm sure you do,there could be made a case for collusion on the part of Snyder and Jones.[/B][/quote]

I'd be interested how you cam to this conclusion.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=irish;899097]I'm not at all surprised the NFLPA agreed. While the players may or may not have made less in the uncapped year (I suspect they didnt make less) that was only one year. The NFLPA agreed to the deal so that their players could make more every year after that because part of the deal was keeping the cap from going down. The NFLPA too the long term view of keeping salaries up for their members.

Also, for the fans this cap reduction news came out of the blue, but it didnt for the Skins. They were continually warned by the NFL to cool it yet for some reason they ignored the warnings. The sad part is that the Skins could have avoided this mess if they'd have just heeded the warnings and backed off a little. The NFL tried to save the Skins from themselves but the Skins were too arrogant to listen.[/quote]

What I don't see in your response, is an answer to why any team should have had to "cool it" during the uncapped year. That is really the crux of the issue. If the league wanted that to be abided by, they should have put it in writing and have the owners vote on it. They didn't do that, because had they the NFLPA would have used it to show collusion during one of the most heated part of the new CBA negotiations.

I doubt that the Skins/Cowboys take outright legal action, simply because they don't want to harm the league's antitrust exemption, or negotiating stance with the NFLPA at some later date, but I am positive that they will put heavy pressure on the league to reduce or dismiss the penalties before this whole saga is said and done. My guess is that within a month of DSmith's re-election (or at this month's owners meetings whichever comes later), the penalties will be reduced to an amount which allows the salary cap upward adjustments for this year, and negates any penalty which would have been moved forward into next year

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

I cannot, for the life of me, understand the value system that some people have.

The league essentially admitted that they colluded. It is laughable to contend otherwise. If you cannot understand how the owners colluded or somehow think that the Skins should have just listened and not gained the competitive advantage that they HAD THE LEGAL RIGHT TO HAVE then you should bow out of the conversation because you're plain wrong.

I'd even go as far to say this. We got hammered the most but Dallas should be simply livid to point of murder. This jealously-driven act of revenge put them into a much tighter spot than us. Count this as the only time I will probably ever cheer for any of those donkeys in Dallas on anything.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=mbedner3420;899166]I agree. I think we'll eventually get a substantial portion of our money back, but it won't matter. The NFL will have already gotten what it wanted: the Redskins and Cowboys to miss out on the major FA this off-season.[/quote]

That's not what this is about, neither the Skins, who signed multiple targeted players, or the Cowboys, who signed their sought after CB, were overly hampered by the penalty. What it was about, and the NFL basically said this in their statement from Sunday, was making sure that the salary cap number did not drop below last year's cap. I tend to think that the Skins/Cowboys took the hit because the 2 owners both are very strong League supporters in Big Markets, and therefore have the ability to overcome the penalty. Other places that were not singled out, like GB, who is a small market and thus the hit would be more unbearable, or Chicago, whose owner is a tightwad, were not good candidates for taking on a revenue sharing conundrum.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Giantone;899086] What collusion are you fans talking about ..none of the other owners in any way shape or form tried to stop a player from making any money ...or any owner from making any money,this is all about how the contracts were structured anda majority commity choose a way for them to be done and it was "agreed upon"...4 choose to go back on their word as a owner to gain and unfair competitive advanage over the other owners ...more then some, in a salery cap move.Do you think these other 28 owners don't have lawyers ,do you not think the NFL thought this through,laws don't have to broken in busuness, business ethics count in court .[/quote]

Oddly, not "agreed upon" in writing. And, why, pray tell, was it "agreed upon" that contracts couldn't be structured in a certain way? So cap couldn't be dumped (as we, admittedly, did). Now, what's wrong with that--why couldn't we structure our contracts this way? Answer: we'd have MORE MONEY TO PAY THE PLAYERS. The NFL effectively blocked that, with an unwritten "agreement." That, I believe, is collusion.

I would have thought that the collusion is pretty obvious to everyone--the NFL owners are a private club of super rich folk who make their own rules (and Danny and Jerry are admittedly among the worst of them!). You sound like Claude Raines in Casablanca: "I am shocked, shocked, to find gambling in this casino!"

The other 28 "innocents" with their "business ethics" have their own shenanigans going on--don't be naive. I think all that ticker tape and Eli-love has clouded your judgment.

As for Graziano and "check mate" or whatever: when everyone from King to Clayton think the league has gone too far--and these are not people who love the skins, to say the least--that should tell you something.

Danny and Jerry may be asses, but this punishment is out of line.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=JWsleep;899202]Oddly, not "agreed upon" in writing. And, why, pray tell, was it "agreed upon" that contracts couldn't be structured in a certain way? So cap couldn't be dumped (as we, admittedly, did). Now, what's wrong with that--why couldn't we structure our contracts this way? Answer: we'd have MORE MONEY TO PAY THE PLAYERS. The NFL effectively blocked that, with an unwritten "agreement." That, I believe, is collusion.

I would have thought that the collusion is pretty obvious to everyone--the NFL owners are a private club of super rich folk who make their own rules (and Danny and Jerry are admittedly among the worst of them!). [B]You sound like Claude Raines in Casablanca: "I am shocked, shocked, to find gambling in this casino!"[/B]

The other 28 "innocents" with their "business ethics" have their own shenanigans going on--don't be naive. I think all that ticker tape and Eli-love has clouded your judgment.

As for Graziano and "check mate" or whatever: when everyone from King to Clayton think the league has gone too far--and these are not people who love the skins, to say the least--that should tell you something.

Danny and Jerry may be asses, but this punishment is out of line.[/quote]

:laughing2 Sig worthy material right there.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=irish;899097]I'm not at all surprised the NFLPA agreed. While the players may or may not have made less in the uncapped year (I suspect they didnt make less) that was only one year. The NFLPA agreed to the deal so that their players could make more every year after that because part of the deal was keeping the cap from going down. The NFLPA too the long term view of keeping salaries up for their members.

Also, for the fans this cap reduction news came out of the blue, but it didnt for the Skins. They were continually warned by the NFL to cool it yet for some reason they ignored the warnings. The sad part is that the Skins could have avoided this mess if they'd have just heeded the warnings and backed off a little. The NFL tried to save the Skins from themselves but the Skins were too arrogant to listen.[/quote]

Their warnging amounts to a bully telling you you better go along with him stealing candy from his teacher and if don't he will punish you. So you don't and now he's punishing you.

Everyone wants to sit on the owners having and agreement. and we ignored it. How about sitting on the fact the agreement was against the law and the Skins chose not to break the law? What weird mind allows fans to believe it's ok to go along with the whole or group even if it's against the law?

Thats like getting pulled over for speeding and your excuse is "I was going the speed of the rest of the traffic." No, you were breaking the law and he stopped you. The NFLPA should never have agreed to whatever the Exec commity requested. I doubt the CAP would have gone down but had it there might have been another collusion issue. How is it not if the owners threaten to lower the CAP unles the NFLPA agrees to not file suit? That practically strong arming the players union. Just to spank two teams who chose not to break the law and follow the crowd in collusion.

[QUOTE=SBXVII;899263]Their warnging amounts to a bully telling you you better go along with him stealing candy from his teacher and if don't he will punish you. So you don't and now he's punishing you.

Everyone wants to sit on the owners having and agreement. and we ignored it. How about sitting on the fact the agreement was against the law and the Skins chose not to break the law? What weird mind allows fans to believe it's ok to go along with the whole or group even if it's against the law?

Thats like getting pulled over for speeding and your excuse is "I was going the speed of the rest of the traffic." No, you were breaking the law and he stopped you. The NFLPA should never have agreed to whatever the Exec commity requested. I doubt the CAP would have gone down but had it there might have been another collusion issue. How is it not if the owners threaten to lower the CAP unles the NFLPA agrees to not file suit? That practically strong arming the players union. Just to spank two teams who chose not to break the law and follow the crowd in collusion.[/QUOTE]

Good post but I want to clarify one thing. The NFLPA agreed to the punishment of the skins/cowboys now that the deal is done and the effect of the new CBA would have pushed this years cap well below last year's. There is NO WAY the NFLPA accepts this punishment while the CBA was being negotiated.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Giantone;899086]I'm sure you do,there could be made a case for collusion on the part of Snyder and Jones. Look you can't find one post of mine saying anything bad about Dan Snyder as a villian,I find a whole lot of his business ethics questionable I believe he plays fantasy football with a real team(yeah he is the majority owner) and the same with Jerry Jones....the fact that he hook up with him amazes me. What collusion are you fans talking about ..none of the other owners in any way shape or form tried to stop a player from making any money ...or any owner from making any money,this is all about how the contracts were structured and a majority commity choose a way for them to be done and it was "agreed upon"...4 choose to go back on their word as a owner to gain and unfair competitive advanage over the other owners ...more then some, in a salery cap move.Do you think these other 28 owners don't have lawyers ,do you not think the NFL thought this through,laws don't have to broken in busuness, business ethics count in court .[/quote]

Wow Giantone, please, punctuation next time.

It's quite obvious you're going to say "what collusion" since it's your owner who spear-headed this attack. Quite convenient that it would be an owner of a franchise within the same division. You're talking about competitive advantage? Neither did the Redskins nor the Cowboys make the playoffs in the last two years. Tell me what advantage did those teams have over the other teams in the league?

The biggest point is that there were no rules broken. It was an uncapped year. Plain and simple. Telling the owners that they should not spend money in the uncapped year is worthless. There was no CBA in place. Any team with the means to do so could have done exactly what the 'skins and 'boys did. Except, they colluded with the league to not spend money, and then agreed that these two teams should be punished for following the rules. So, talk about unfair competitive advantage. The other 28 teams get rewarded extra cap space while strictly penalizing those two teams (and doing nothing to the other two teams not mentioned.) And again, how convenient that it was the Giants' owner who spear-headed this move to punish two teams within his same division, but doing nothing to the other teams.

If you don't get that then there's no hope for you.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;899279]Good post but I want to clarify one thing. The NFLPA agreed to the punishment of the skins/cowboys now that the deal is done and the effect of the new CBA would have pushed this years cap well below last year's. There is NO WAY the NFLPA accepts this punishment while the CBA was being negotiated.[/quote]

This is true. Unfortunately, the NFLPA had no choice but to agree to a dirty deal by the NFL. Plain and simple. Still though, I don't see if stopping those teams from suing the NFL.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=skinsguy;899316]This is true. Unfortunately, the NFLPA had no choice but to agree to a dirty deal by the NFL. Plain and simple. Still though, I don't see if stopping those teams from suing the NFL.[/quote]

Again, if I'm London Fletcher, I sue. They took money right out of his pocket.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=JWsleep;899328]Again, if I'm London Fletcher, I sue. They took money right out of his pocket.[/quote]

He probably can't. Not just b/c of the speculative nature of the damages (He would pretty much need a statement from the Skins saying "We would have offered you X, but due to salary cap restrictions resulting solely from the NFL's sanction, we can only offer you Y". Pretty sure that is not forthcoming).

As a member of the NFLPA, the NFLPA's agreement to the salary cap arrangements would, most likely, cut off his legal remedy.

Clearly he, and other potential Redskins are likely harmed, BUT the players organization agree to allow the harm to happen.

I'm pretty much with CRed on this one. After D. Smith's reelection and the owners meeting, the league will rework this and, IMHO, simply say - "Okay, what's done is done this year, but next it will go back to normal and their will be no further penalty."

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;899279]Good post but I want to clarify one thing. The NFLPA agreed to the punishment of the skins/cowboys now that the deal is done and the effect of the new CBA would have pushed this years cap well below last year's. There is NO WAY the NFLPA accepts this punishment while the CBA was being negotiated.[/quote]

If the CAP was going to fall below last years it was going to fall whether the NFLPA agreed to it or not. The owners threw out there that they would not allow the CAP to fall below last yrs if they agreed not to file a law suit. It was a cookie to keep them quiet. No way the CAP falls below last yrs just because the Skins reworked 2 contracts and Dallas reworked 1. Besides the revenue sharing is taken from the total amount earned from income not total amount paid out. Those lesser teams still would have gotten their fair share of the skimming from the top of the better managed teams.

As has been said on the radio, there were far more teams that spent below the bottom limit of the CAP also. They too effected the balance across the board... and they don't get punished. Why?

and your right had the league came out and said "we agreed not to do this and tried to punish the two teams.... the new CBA would never have been signed and it would have gone to court with the NFLPA having filed that the owners colluded. The key is the owners broke the law

How about this for a decent result. All the owners punished the Skins and Cowboys for not playing fair. Ok. It's done. Now JJ/DS need to punish the league for their breaking the law to the sum of 46 mill.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;899379]He probably can't. Not just b/c of the speculative nature of the damages (He would pretty much need a statement from the Skins saying "We would have offered you X, but due to salary cap restrictions resulting solely from the NFL's sanction, we can only offer you Y". Pretty sure that is not forthcoming).

As a member of the NFLPA, the NFLPA's agreement to the salary cap arrangements would, most likely, cut off his legal remedy.

Clearly he, and other potential Redskins are likely harmed, BUT the players organization agree to allow the harm to happen.

[B]I'm pretty much with CRed on this one. After D. Smith's reelection and the owners meeting, the league will rework this and, IMHO, simply say - "Okay, what's done is done this year, but next it will go back to normal and their will be no further penalty."[/B][/quote]

I agree that the punishment likely will be reduced but it has to be reduced more than that. Even at "only" $18 mil. for one year, the punishment still does not fit the supposed crime.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;898860]So, you and your friends agree to do a job for another group. After the other group leaves, your friends secretly agree to try and cheat on the agreement. Even though you know it's wrong, and may even be illegal, because the "the group reache[d] consensus and you are in the group that's what you have to do"? Sorry, illegal agreements cannot be enforced.[/quote]

Agreed. Majority does not equal morality.

However, if the Redskins were part of the consensus and gave their word on a shady deal, then I don't really have a problem with them facing the shady consequences of that deal.