Re: Redskins looking at WR in the first round
 

GTripp, you get knighted by Sir SmootSmack

Hooskins, enjoy your vacation in Goa. See you in 3 months, in the meantime review the rules

Rule XVII. Article XXII. Section XXVI: Thou shalt not not disagree with a mod on consecutive posts or thou shalt be smote

Re: Redskins looking at WR in the first round
 

[quote=GTripp0012;300878]

You can't make a pick expecting historical greatness. SmootSmack is 100% correct in his assessment that Okoye, Adams, Quinn, Patrick Willis, LaRon Landry have just as good of a chance to be the best ever at their position as Johnson does.[/quote]


I think you can. The way you are wording it, makes it seem like teams draft to make history. Teams draft to [B]win, [/B]and the only way to figure out who to draft is based on college performance and potential.

I think you underplaying CJ skill and potential. He is fast, big, and smart. Receivers that are strong, big and skilled as him do not come around much. And yes Quinn has the potential of being an amazing QB too but not all those other guys. To me Quinn and CJ are the two best players coming out of the draft.

The point is you have to judge a player based on college and potential. If they are one of the best players to come in years(based on those predictions) then you have to draft them. What else can you use to judge a player?

Re: Redskins looking at WR in the first round
 

[quote=SmootSmack;300879]GTripp, you get knighted by Sir SmootSmack

Hooskins, enjoy your vacation in [B]Goa[/B]. See you in 3 months, in the meantime review the rules

Rule XVII. Article XXII. Section XXVI: Thou shalt not not disagree with a mod on consecutive posts or thou shalt be smot e[/quote]

I have always wanted to go to Goa. Thanks Warpath Mod IV!

Re: Redskins looking at WR in the first round
 

[quote=hooskins;300881]I think you can. The way you are wording it, makes it seem like teams draft to make history. Teams draft to [B]win, [/B]and the only way to figure out who to draft is based on college performance and potential.

I think you underplaying CJ skill and potential. He is fast, big, and smart. Receivers that are strong, big and skilled as him do not come around much. And yes Quinn has the potential of being an amazing QB too.

The point is you have to judge a player based on college and potential. If they are one of the best players to come in years(based on those predictions) then you have to draft them. What else can you use to judge a player?[/quote]Well you certainly can't use hype.

Johnson is big and fast, but in the NFL, that simply isn't going to seperate him from his competition. Everyone is big, everyone is fast. You have to be smart to seperate from your competition consistently.

Is Johnson a smart, wily receiver who can give himself an edge over any opponent? Maybe he is. But we don't know that for sure. All we know from the draft process is that he's big, strong, fast, and can jump, just like every other player he will be going up against.

I don't believe that theres anyway that Johnson will just take over this league physically. The average player in the NFL today is a physical beast. Having elite physical tools no longer makes a player special. Therefore, in my estimation, there is no reason to expect Johnson to be special.

He should be expected to be good, because thats what he was in college, very good. But how much is a very good WR worth when you already have two very good recievers? Certainly not a first round pick.

Re: Redskins looking at WR in the first round
 

[QUOTE=hooskins;300881]I think you can. The way you are wording it, makes it seem like teams draft to make history. Teams draft to [B]win, [/B]and the only way to figure out who to draft is based on college performance and potential.

I think you underplaying CJ skill and potential. He is fast, big, and smart. Receivers that are strong, big and skilled as him do not come around much. And yes Quinn has the potential of being an amazing QB too but not all those other guys. To me Quinn and CJ are the two best players coming out of the draft.

The point is you have to judge a player based on college and potential. If they are one of the best players to come in years(based on those predictions) then you have to draft them. What else can you use to judge a player?[/QUOTE]

I'm changing your destination to the Easter Islands.

Let me ask you this before you go. Do you think CJ is considerably better than Larry Fitzgerald, Anquan Boldin, Roy Williams or Andre Johnson?

Re: Redskins looking at WR in the first round
 

[quote=SmootSmack;300884]I'm changing your destination to the Easter Islands.

Let me ask you this before you go. Do you think CJ is considerably better than Larry Fitzgerald, Anquan Boldin, Roy Williams or Andre Johnson?[/quote]I know this question wasn't directed at me, but my answer would be that these players would be a reasonable high end expectation for Johnson. He could conceivably be better, but he could very easily be worse.

We don't want to be the team to find out he can't hold Larry Fitzgerald's jock.

And even if he can, wouldn't our offense become a classic example of too many cooks (talented WRs) in the kitchen?

Calvin Johnson has hype selection written all over him, and correct me if I'm wrong, isn't that the type of acquisition that put us in this poor cap, win depreived situation that we are in today?

Re: Redskins looking at WR in the first round
 

I agree he isnt a need, but as of now I see 3 positions we might go for.

1)DT/DE
2)WR-CJ
3)FS-Landry

I want a DT, but I could see the Skins going for those other guys based on talent. I wouldnt be surprised if we get CJ or Landry. Teams dont always draft on need, unless it is a QB they need.

Re: Redskins looking at WR in the first round
 

[quote=SmootSmack;300884]I'm changing your destination to the Easter Islands.

Let me ask you this before you go. Do you think CJ is considerably better than Larry Fitzgerald, Anquan Boldin, Roy Williams or Andre Johnson?[/quote]

I think CJ has the potential to be a much better version of Boldin if he stays healthy.

I think he will be better than Roy Williams without a doubt.

Re: Redskins looking at WR in the first round
 

[quote=hooskins;300886]I agree he isnt a need, but as of now I see 3 positions we might go for.

1)DT/DE
2)WR-CJ
3)FS-Landry

I want a DT, but I could see the Skins going for those other guys based on talent. I wouldnt be surprised if we get CJ or Landry. Teams dont always draft on need, unless it is a QB they need.[/quote]And I'm not saying we draft for need and turn a blind eye to logic.

I'm saying we should [I]keep[/I] our eye on logic, and not take a player who would either prevent us from resigning Cooley, or otherwise be our third target for the first 4 years of his career.

There are a bunch of prospects that would make our team better than Johnson would that aren't on the DL. Theres also a bunch of receiver prospects who project to the NFL just as well as Johnson of whom we could trade way down for.

Outside of trading up for JaMarcus Russell, trading up for Calvin Johnson is the single worst possible use of the 2006 draft.

Re: Redskins looking at WR in the first round
 

[quote=hooskins;300887]I think CJ has the potential to be a much better version of Boldin if he stays healthy.

I think he will be better than Roy Williams without a doubt.[/quote]That's a really high bar you have for him.

And for his sake, I hope he meets his expetations so he doesn't have to deal with daily media criticism for the rest of his life.

But theres not a big chance that he will exceed your expectations. Possible, of course. Likely, no.

Re: Redskins looking at WR in the first round
 

I am not making a personal claim for CJ, I am just trying to explain drafting CJ would not be all too bad.

I mean I am sure you understand you why the Skins will even consider him, right?

Re: Redskins looking at WR in the first round
 

[quote=GTripp0012;300889]That's a really high bar you have for him.

And for his sake, I hope he meets his expetations so he doesn't have to deal with daily media criticism for the rest of his life.

But theres not a big chance that he will exceed your expectations. Possible, of course. Likely, no.[/quote]

You dont think he will be better than Roy Williams? If he isnt better than Williams then CJ will be considered a bust. You cannot think he will be a bust.

Re: Redskins looking at WR in the first round
 

Ok, but hooskins would you agree that the four receivers I mentioned are all among the best, if not the best, wide receivers in the NFL? And CJ, at best, would be among those receivers (even if he's at the top of that list)?

Re: Redskins looking at WR in the first round
 

[quote=hooskins;300890]I am not making a personal claim for CJ, I am just trying to explain drafting CJ would not be all too bad.

I mean I am sure you understand you why the Skins will even consider him, right?[/quote]Well, I understand the reasoning. It's the same reasoning that every other team is using.

That doesn't make it good reasoning or even acceptable.

I think theres a perfectly logical reason that so many high picks end up being busts and thats due to a series of thousands of fallacies in the way the draft process is executed.

And until things change in the way people think about the draft, this trend will continue.

There is a 99.9% someone will reach for Calvin Johnson because they will hear what people are saying and assume that he's going to be something different than what they see from him. I think it's safe to say at this point that if someone trades up for Calvin Johnson, they are making a mistake.

1st round receivers in general are good picks for teams without any elite target, TE or WR. And only about 4-5 teams fit into this category. But some team is going to draft CJ with the expectation to redefine the position.

If the expectation for you at the highest level of the game is to redefine the position, how can you possibly live up to expectations? What evidence do we have the Calvin Johnson is even physically capable of redefining the way the WR position is played?

Calvin Johnson is in an impossible position.

Re: Redskins looking at WR in the first round
 

[quote=SmootSmack;300892]Ok, but hooskins would you agree that the four receivers I mentioned are all among the best, if not the best, wide receivers in the NFL? And CJ, at best, would be among those receivers (even if he's at the top of that list)?[/quote]

Yes, I agree with that. I also agree that I have high expectations for CJ.