Re: If Not Joe, Then Who?
 

[QUOTE=Rock31;387818]Let's grant Joe the option of finishing his contract, if he so chooses. He's the one who truly believes in Jason, commands the respect of every player and has brought respectability back to the franchise in terms of attracting free agents and not sacrificing draft picks. Granted, some of his FAs have been busts and most picks have yet to make an impact. This doesn't mean you jump ship and overhaul, when there is a committed, determined HC with a plan in place. Many fans will argue Gibbs' coaching hasn't solved very much the last few seasons, but that's evidenced only in the fine print of the W/L record. What Joe has done is brought in the pieces necessary to play his style of ball: power running. Whether or not Portis epitomizes the hard-nosed grunt of a back Gibbs prefers is up for debate, but the other cogs of the offense, such as the big offensive line (when healthy), Cooley, the short-to-medium yardage possession tight end, and Sellers, the bowling ball fullback, certainly were meant to support a running philosophy. It was thought that Brunell would have enough of an arm to toss it deep to what are, let's face it, little more than downfield-only threat Moss, and that Campbell now would continue to fill that role, but in a much more lively and effective way than Brunell.

I think the "boogeyman" on the coaching squad is Saunders. If you take into account the makeup of this team, which lacks explosive playmakers and improvisational open-field players, Saunders is not a good fit. I think when Gibbs addresses the matter of whether or not the Skins are capable of making a big play, he has to insist "yes, they are" in a nod to Saunders (Joe wouldn't really want to publicly ruffle the feathers of a millionaire assistant, now would he?). Yes, Joe makes the crucial decisions during games, but is it him who calls the offensive plays anymore? No. Everyone has been remarking it is Gibbs' conservative play-calling that has been the albatross of the offense, but when you are equipped with players that are manufactured to run hard and run often, how does a team put up big stats and blow away opponents?

In summary, it's one or the other that needs to go: Gibbs and his preferred offensive players, or Saunders and his preferred, but as yet unrealized, explosive, speedy playmakers. It would be a lot easier for the Skins to stick with Gibbs and the current cast of characters (with some rushing attack-oriented picks in the '08 draft and free agent signings of a similar nature) for next season than to let Saunders or a new coach take over, which would require an offensive overhaul consistent with the philosophy of that new leader. This is not excusing the lapses in discipline among the players and frequent poor judgment by Gibbs in his second stint; rather, it is talking straight about what this team was designed to do, and why it is failing at the present (thanks Saunders).[/QUOTE]

Good post, but the question in this thread is asking you to just assume that Gibbs won't return. Not whether or not he should

Re: If Not Joe, Then Who?
 

[QUOTE=Rock31;387818]Let's grant Joe the option of finishing his contract, if he so chooses. He's the one who truly believes in Jason, commands the respect of every player and has brought respectability back to the franchise in terms of attracting free agents and not sacrificing draft picks. Granted, some of his FAs have been busts and most picks have yet to make an impact. This doesn't mean you jump ship and overhaul, when there is a committed, determined HC with a plan in place. Many fans will argue Gibbs' coaching hasn't solved very much the last few seasons, but that's evidenced only in the fine print of the W/L record. What Joe has done is brought in the pieces necessary to play his style of ball: power running. Whether or not Portis epitomizes the hard-nosed grunt of a back Gibbs prefers is up for debate, but the other cogs of the offense, such as the big offensive line (when healthy), Cooley, the short-to-medium yardage possession tight end, and Sellers, the bowling ball fullback, certainly were meant to support a running philosophy. It was thought that Brunell would have enough of an arm to toss it deep to what are, let's face it, little more than downfield-only threat Moss, and that Campbell now would continue to fill that role, but in a much more lively and effective way than Brunell.

I think the "boogeyman" on the coaching squad is Saunders. If you take into account the makeup of this team, which lacks explosive playmakers and improvisational open-field players, Saunders is not a good fit. I think when Gibbs addresses the matter of whether or not the Skins are capable of making a big play, he has to insist "yes, they are" in a nod to Saunders (Joe wouldn't really want to publicly ruffle the feathers of a millionaire assistant, now would he?). Yes, Joe makes the crucial decisions during games, but is it him who calls the offensive plays anymore? No. Everyone has been remarking it is Gibbs' conservative play-calling that has been the albatross of the offense, but when you are equipped with players that are manufactured to run hard and run often, how does a team put up big stats and blow away opponents?

In summary, it's one or the other that needs to go: Gibbs and his preferred offensive players, or Saunders and his preferred, but as yet unrealized, explosive, speedy playmakers. It would be a lot easier for the Skins to stick with Gibbs and the current cast of characters (with some rushing attack-oriented picks in the '08 draft and free agent signings of a similar nature) for next season than to let Saunders or a new coach take over, which would require an offensive overhaul consistent with the philosophy of that new leader. This is not excusing the lapses in discipline among the players and frequent poor judgment by Gibbs in his second stint; rather, it is talking straight about what this team was designed to do, and why it is failing at the present (thanks Saunders).[/QUOTE]

Good post!! I think bringing in Grimm to replace Bugel would help also.

Re: If Not Joe, Then Who?
 

After this week, my heart says Gregg Williams or maybe Coach Joe will stay. History has me leaning toward Russ Grimm. But logic tells me Cowher is the guy.

Re: If Not Joe, Then Who?
 

Absolutely. Bring in Grimm to help or run the O.

Sorry for misplacing my previous post.

Re: If Not Joe, Then Who?
 

after ten years of failure Snyder will finally organize the Skins like every other franchise, hire a GM and learn the hard way why this model is necessary for success...at our expense. I'd like to see a [B]Russ Grimm[/B]/ Floyd Reese combo or maybe some GM candidate in the Patriots organization.

Re: If Not Joe, Then Who?
 

I think that if Gibbs goes, then Williams should be the HC and he should be allowed to hire his own offensive coordinator. I believe that if Saunders is allowed to stay he will sabotage the team in order to eventually get the job himself. Whoever they hire should not be saddled with Saunders, IMO. Did I mention that I don't care for Al Saunders?

Maybe Charlie Weiss would be available? Notre Dame can't not fire him after they fired Willingham. They guy lost to Navy for God's sake. Of course,the polish is off Weiss a little considering what N.E. is doing now. They're setting records and their offensive coordinator looks like he rode to the stadium on his skateboard.

Re: If Not Joe, Then Who?
 

[quote=BugelDisciple;387989]after ten years of failure Snyder will finally organize the Skins like every other franchise, hire a GM and learn the hard way why this model is necessary for success...at our expense. I'd like to see a [B]Russ Grimm[/B]/ Floyd Reese combo or maybe some GM candidate in the Patriots organization.[/quote]


Dallas doesn't have a G.M and they're 11-1. Hell, they don't really even have a head coach. They've got an owner, a head cheerleader, and an offensive coordinator.

Re: If Not Joe, Then Who?
 

I hate to say it, but the Joe Gibbs part II needs to be over. I love Joe Gibbs to death, but he and his current organization is not getting the job done. The coaching staff is consistently making bad decisions and losing games that are there for the taking. I think Greg Williams will be the next head coach. I hope he gets a whole new staff. The Redskins need to overhaul the entire organization. The philosophy of buying high priced free agents and trading away draft picks need to cease. I would rather see the Skins take there lumps for a couple of years and build through the draft. Quick fixes has not worked.

Re: If Not Joe, Then Who?
 

I say Cowher because I feel like his system is very similar to that of Gibbs. I think we are really close to being a good, playoff team. If we start over with a new coach, it could take YEARS to recover.

Re: If Not Joe, Then Who?
 

cowher, hands down. has won at this level. and is up to date on coaching/ player management in today's game. i don't want Greg Williams running the show. i like Russ Grimm before Greg Williams

Re: If Not Joe, Then Who?
 

After 2 timeouts yesterday I no longer feel guilty about wanting Joe Gibbs to go into permanent retirement. That is inexcusable.

Cowher would be the worst choice. He would have the same problem that I think keeps Gibbs from being successful. He's already been to the mountain. We need someone who is hungry who hasn't won it all.

Russ Grimm is the best choice but for continuity I think Gregg Williams. Saunders offense would be much better with Gibbs out of the picture.

Re: If Not Joe, Then Who?
 

Honestly, I don't think it would matter who we got as coach provided the core of the coaching staff remains the same.

I don't think it's the coaching so much as it's the execution. Sure, Gibbs made a FATAL mistake that almost any other coach in this league wouldn't make, but it wasn't him blocking, it wasn't him putting balls on the ground.

We have the talent, the execution is lacking and honestly I think we could have a figure head as coach next year and if we let Williams and Saunders run the show, we'd still have a good team.

Re: If Not Joe, Then Who?
 

First off I think Gibbs will be back for year 5.

Beyond that I would put my money on Williams getting a shot.

Re: If Not Joe, Then Who?
 

Oh please no not Gibbs for year 5. He lacks the passion and motivational skills for this team. It breaks my heart that he couldn't succeed 2nd time around as I was so excited when he came back but let's face reality. This has been 4 years now. His record:

Yr 1 = 6-10
Yr 2 = 10-6
Yr 3 = 5-11
Yr 4 --- currently 5-7 on our way to 7-9 at best. We'll win the Cowboy game because they won't play anyone but after that one all bets are off.

Re: If Not Joe, Then Who?
 

I hope Gibbs comes back next year to prove everyone wrong. Is not his fault that he has a monumental # of injuries at critical times this season, it is his fault that he made a blunder yesterday (who wouldn't after a week like he had). The changes I would like to see are, as much as I love Bugel it's time for him to retire and pass the reins to Grimm (Skins should hire him and give him whatever title to get him in here) I would like the Skins to rehire our old trainer Dan Riley (now with the Texans) and get rid of our current one.