[QUOTE=of course playing the same game for years will make playing another seem weird. but just cuz you are used to something doesn't make it better. to me, thats exactly the problem with Madden. it's been the same game for years..[/QUOTE]

Exactly, thats why it's still the best football game out there. Not trying to knock ESPN, but Madden has been consistent for a while now.

if it ain't broke...

i'm broke. from buying the same game every year.

c'mon, you guys are avid football fans. you're telling me that Madden has got it just right and can't get ALOT better? not even try and absorb some of the improvements to the genre that other games have made, or improve on the models+animations etc??

[QUOTE=illdefined]i'm broke. from buying the same game every year.

c'mon, you guys are avid football fans. you're telling me that Madden has got it just right and can't get ALOT better? not even try and absorb some of the improvements to the genre that other games have made, or improve on the models+animations etc??[/QUOTE]

Oh no, of course they can improve. There's always room for improvement. But as far as overall gameplay goes.......Madden is still the King.

Ill, I hear what your saying man. I also think that Madden can improve their animations. But, I also think ESPN can improve on alot more things than Madden. Like maybe the depth chart, roster management, and franchise mode. I think the whole "cribs" thing has to go.....

i suppose its how you define gameplay, cuz i define it as play on the field, and the closeness to reality of an NFL game. yeah Madden has better stats, franchise, and things that i understand many people love. but on the field i been seeing the same dumpy unrealistic player models, only-adequate physics, and too few, short, robotic animations for 5 years now.

here's some high-tech that really adds to gameplay that Madden doesn't feel is worth the effort. the near perfect, realtime tackle system of ESPN, or FEVER's (R.I.P.) Read n' Lead totally open passing system. not only are these things cool, they WORK and add alot to the actual gamePLAY. on the field. hitstick and playmaker just don't cut it compared to design and technology like that.

cribs, berman, owner mode, madden cards, even drafts and contract negotiations, while cool, is still extra, and i don't consider it true GAME DEVELOPMENT.

haha, here we go again.

If Madden loses Madden next year, I truly beleive it will be a better game. Its not like Madden does anythign for the game. We will miss some of his cheesy comments, but the commentary in the game is one of its weakest attributes. In recent years they havetn worked on fixing the commentary at all, and you still get told when you are up by 50 that this is a do or die play right here. Im sure they will still get commentators and fix all the sound of the game.

Ill, just curious, have you played Madden '05?

[QUOTE=SKINSnCANES]haha, here we go again.

If Madden loses Madden next year, I truly beleive it will be a better game. Its not like Madden does anythign for the game. We will miss some of his cheesy comments, but the commentary in the game is one of its weakest attributes. In recent years they havetn worked on fixing the commentary at all, and you still get told when you are up by 50 that this is a do or die play right here. Im sure they will still get commentators and fix all the sound of the game.[/QUOTE]

Yeah I gave up on Ill. He sticking with what he believes which is fine. I respect his opinion.

i was at the store during halftime of the HOF game (after normal closing hours) cuz that's when they called to tell me the truck with Madden 05 came. I interrupted the first SKINS game to get Madden. and like Summo, who started this thread, was disappointed in this year's release. too much the same, not enough BETTER.

conversely Matty, I know everything you've said about ESPN is based on last year's from your previous posts. have you gotten a chance to look at 2k5 yet?

Since I have been in this argument several times on this board, this is my conclusion:

If you want a football game becuase you are going to play a franchise, then you have no choice but to get madden in my opinion, its far superior if you play more than one season.

If you want a football game for head to head, or never play more than one season because you just play with current rosters, then you will probably buy espn and enjoy the extra presentation features that go along with the game.

No matter how many times we do the arguement, the franchise mode is always the most talked about. The animation factor bascially seems like its a personal preference more than anything. Everyone can state reasons why the same animation is better in each of the games. Both games have taken huge leaps from what football games used to be, neither is a bad game. So in my mind it comes down to if you want the presentation or the franchise.

in defense of illdefined, since you guys are questioning his knowledge of the games, when we had these arguments before almost everyone owed both games and had played both.

When it comes down to it you have to like one better, expecially for me since I dont play head to head, I only do franchises, I dont have the time to play season after season of both. So I decided I only play madden for franchise,a nd if someone never really played a football game before i might put in 2k5 because it more represents a football viewing experience. (well, with the lack of commentary)

Canes, if there is any consensus on this issue at all, thats definitely it. Franchise lovers love all Madden offers, and less dynasty oriented people seem to prefer ESPN.

but i maintain that it has to do with what's on the field. I haven't mentioned once the gloss of ESPN's presentation. it's amazing for sure, from in game pass and run analysis to weekly sportcenters, but that's not what makes ESPN closer to real NFL than Madden for me.

how they players look, what they do, and how they react on the field is an order of magnitude better than Madden. there's super realistic animations for everything like pushing on the backs of Olineman, incidental contact and calling timeouts on the ground. ESPN still has that super annoying waddle rotation on small direction changes, but you can finally cut and stumble and its never looked better. Madden has added a couple things here and there but they always seem like afterthoughts, no where near the attention to the details nor the love. Joe Crisp agrees about how the players themselves look and he sees more football players than any of us.

aside from the visual though, ESPN really makes you fight to score and to me the best part, really imparts the feeling of lobbing a pass just high enough to get over a reaching defender to your man. too much of a bullet and its picked, too much of a lob and the safety gets there and breaks it up. I've never felt the 'seam' so well before in a videogame.

its really fun to watch and play not sim.

out of curiosity, what difficultly level do you play on?

I ask this because on both games that animations and AI are completly different when you take it off of the default settings. Madden, on All Madden mode is the most realistic football game AI to date, hands down. The stats are par to those in real life, if you arent that good it definitly shows. You cant throw with accuracy while scrambling and off your back foot. Even the reviews state how much of a sleep madden took this year if you play on the all madden level. Things cant be real on the easier levels because it would be to hard. A beginer picks what receiver they are gong ot throw to before teh plays starts, much less look for the open guy and sets his feet first.

The main animation is espn is what I hate the most, running. Just plain old running. Its unnatural the way the the player moves. If you try to run at an angle he compleltly stops his forward momenturm, faces straight left, then faces the direction you want to run in. The animation is so bad that fast players get tackled by slow players just becuase they tried to turn. I had to adapt my running style knowing that natural movments were impossible. I hated that and for that reason along it makes the game miserable to play.

I haven't tried 2K5 yet but I probably will rent it and give it a try sometime.

[QUOTE=SKINSnCANES]Since I have been in this argument several times on this board, this is my conclusion:

If you want a football game becuase you are going to play a franchise, then you have no choice but to get madden in my opinion, its far superior if you play more than one season.

If you want a football game for head to head, or never play more than one season because you just play with current rosters, then you will probably buy espn and enjoy the extra presentation features that go along with the game.

No matter how many times we do the arguement, the franchise mode is always the most talked about. The animation factor bascially seems like its a personal preference more than anything. Everyone can state reasons why the same animation is better in each of the games. Both games have taken huge leaps from what football games used to be, neither is a bad game. So in my mind it comes down to if you want the presentation or the franchise.[/QUOTE]
I think that pretty much sums things up. If you're a franchise guy, Madden is your game. If that's not your thing, ESPN is the way to go.

It comes down to how you like your football.