Re: Obama Clinches Democratic Nomination
 

I don't think anyone can top Bush but this speech is borderline...maybe it's just me? What is he trying to say? Is he really smiling (starts at 1:30 sec)? Does anything he say line-up with his voting record?

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Re: Obama Clinches Democratic Nomination
 

When Fox News is trashing you, it's got to be awful!
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Re: Obama Clinches Democratic Nomination
 

[QUOTE=steveo395;451711]Your such a typical Obama supporter. Wow he makes a bunch of great speeches where he talks alot about change and hope, but doesn't actually say anything. He promises to solve everybodys problems and people love it. Then he'll say how he's different from other politicians, even though he isn't. The speeches are just one slogan after another and how Bush is bad and he's going to change, so he must be great. The few ideas he does have aren't new and they are not going to work. Bigger government is not the answer, which is what he wants to do.[/QUOTE]

Obama is your typical politician in that he's promising a lot, trying to avoid giving detailed descriptions of how he will take us to the mountain top, etc. But if he's an ordinary politician in that regard, why do so many on the right seem to resent him? So what if he "talks big"....who cares? If all politicians "talk big," why is Obama being singled out for ridicule and being labeled someone with no substance?

Also, being an effective speaker, articulate, and charismatic is pretty damn important if you are the head of state. Your job is to inspire public confidence in government, communicate with foreign leaders, and push legislation through Congress. Like it or not, a great many people and politicians find Obama enormously appealing. He has the same "it" factor that Reagan and JFK had.

Re: Obama Clinches Democratic Nomination
 

If McCain's strategy this Fall is to say Obama is all sizzle and no steak or that he gives great speeches, the GOP is in big trouble. People fail to see it's not that Obama simply gives great speeches, but he has the ability to connect that inspiration to tangible policy, ideas, and ideological differences between him and his opponent(s).

John McCain had better pound him on policy and experience, and not this gibberish about Obama only speaks well. And if experience was what people wanted from the Democratic nominee, Joe Biden, Chris Dodd, and John Edwards would still be campaigning, would they not? And who can forget Bill Richardson's extensive resume? In terms of policy, there are vast differences between McCain and Obama. Plain and simple.

But to suggest that Senator Obama isn't electable or has empty ideas, is to somehow suggest that millions of Americans that voted for him, and the hundreds of others that endorsed him, are somehow delusional and caught up in the moment.

Re: Obama Clinches Democratic Nomination
 

It'll be Obama because it's very unlikely the party in power will hold the White House with a down economy, an unpopular war, and after holding the office for the last eight years. Obama has a savvy enough campaign staff to not mess up too bad, IMO. It's a very tough road for McCain, given the usual political trends.

As for politicians not being clear in speeches, promising too much, etc.: this is the nature of American politics and the politics of democracy in general. Nothing new here.

Re: Obama Clinches Democratic Nomination
 

[quote=SmootSmack;451324]Is that really her doing, or ignorance on the part of Americans....or 70Chip's doing?[/quote]

Thanks for the blurb. The latest rumor is that the Republicans have video of Michell Obama railing against "whitey" at church. Tell 10 friends.

Re: Obama Clinches Democratic Nomination
 

[QUOTE=12thMan;451802]But to suggest that Senator Obama isn't electable or has empty ideas, is to somehow suggest that millions of Americans that voted for him, and the hundreds of others that endorsed him, are somehow delusional and caught up in the moment.[/QUOTE]

I think a lot of people would suggest that indeed. I realize primaries are not the time for ideas since it is very difficult to differentiate yourself from an opponent you usually stand shoulder to shoulder with but Obama has been remarkably light on ideas other than "change" in general. Given the current environment that might be enough but I find no fault with people who wonder what exactly he thinks he is going to do when he never really says other than pretty general directions.

Re: Obama Clinches Democratic Nomination
 

Obama doesn't need issues, he's a "lightworker":

[url=http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2008/06/06/notes060608.DTL&type=printable]Is Obama an enlightened being? / Spiritual wise ones say: This sure ain't no ordinary politician. You buying it?[/url]

Re: Obama Clinches Democratic Nomination
 

[QUOTE=JWsleep;451815]It'll be Obama because it's very unlikely the party in power will hold the White House with a down economy, an unpopular war, and after holding the office for the last eight years. Obama has a savvy enough campaign staff to not mess up too bad, IMO. It's a very tough road for McCain, given the usual political trends.[/QUOTE]

Many thought the same thing in 2004. I don't know what the Democratic Party will do though if they don't win this election though. I mean it's there for the taking

Re: Obama Clinches Democratic Nomination
 

[QUOTE=70Chip;451830]Obama doesn't need issues, he's a "lightworker":

[url=http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2008/06/06/notes060608.DTL&type=printable]Is Obama an enlightened being? / Spiritual wise ones say: This sure ain't no ordinary politician. You buying it?[/url][/QUOTE]

Holy crap. This guy thinks he Jesus.

Re: Obama Clinches Democratic Nomination
 

[quote=FRPLG;451844]Holy crap. This guy thinks he Jesus.[/quote]

People continue to tell me otherwise and say that he's the anti-christ.

Re: Obama Clinches Democratic Nomination
 

I'm definately not in the Obama=anti-christ crowd. If nothing else, the guy is a fascinating candidate.

However, we've seen this episode before. We've seen politicians who are smooth develop cult followings with little or no substance behind the following. And rarely, if ever, have the results been positive.

I don't want to hold it against Obama that he can attract the young voters to his cause by preaching a message that they feel gives them hope. Hope is good. If George Bush inspired hope in the same way Obama can, we would view his presidency very differently despite the facts and situations being identical. Totally on board with hope.

Something is really just not right about this. Maybe it's just because I associate daily with an incredibly young demographic of people. But I'm very nervous about what crazy ideas Obama could propose and have millions defend him in doing so without any sort of reason.

He's no anti-christ, but the more I hear the pro-Obama arguments, the more I realize that if he gets elected, he will never be accountable for any decision he makes. And that's scary.

I'm just free flow writing here, so maybe I'm working myself up into a frenzy over nothing. But I hear phrases like "win the war for national healthcare" followed by crazy applause, and I realize just how much power this man has. I'm probably casting my vote for McCain based on policy alone, but if Obama wins he will be the strongest U.S. president since Reagan, and FDR before him. I just hope that if he wins, he's ready to handle the job.

Re: Obama Clinches Democratic Nomination
 

[quote=GTripp0012;451851]I'm definately not in the Obama=anti-christ crowd. If nothing else, the guy is a fascinating candidate.

However, we've seen this episode before. We've seen politicians who are smooth develop cult followings with little or no substance behind the following. And rarely, if ever, have the results been positive.

I don't want to hold it against Obama that he can attract the young voters to his cause by preaching a message that they feel gives them hope. Hope is good. If George Bush inspired hope in the same way Obama can, we would view his presidency very differently despite the facts and situations being identical. Totally on board with hope.

Something is really just not right about this. Maybe it's just because I associate daily with an incredibly young demographic of people. But I'm very nervous about what crazy ideas Obama could propose and have millions defend him in doing so without any sort of reason.

He's no anti-christ, but the more I hear the pro-Obama arguments, the more I realize that if he gets elected, he will never be accountable for any decision he makes. And that's scary.

I'm just free flow writing here, so maybe I'm working myself up into a frenzy over nothing. [B]But I hear phrases like "win the war for national healthcare" followed by crazy applause, and I realize just how much power this man has.[/B] I'm probably casting my vote for McCain based on policy alone, but if Obama wins he will be the strongest U.S. president since Reagan, and FDR before him. I just hope that if he wins, he's ready to handle the job.[/quote]

I'm going to digress and say that that quote reminds me of the episode of Family Guy where Lois was running for mayor and all she had to say was, "9/11" and the audience went nuts. Awesome episode.

Back to your regularly scheduled political debate.

Re: Obama Clinches Democratic Nomination
 

[quote=FRPLG;451823]I think a lot of people would suggest that indeed. I realize primaries are not the time for ideas since it is very difficult to differentiate yourself from an opponent you usually stand shoulder to shoulder with but Obama has been remarkably light on ideas other than "change" in general. Given the current environment that might be enough but I find no fault with people who wonder what exactly he thinks he is going to do when he never really says other than pretty general directions.[/quote]

My only response to this is he hasn't been anymore general than John McCain or even Clinton, who recently bowed out of the race. I think he's been general when he's had to be (larger rallys) and more specific (town hall meetings) in other settings.

Obama has been specific on his designs for Universal Healthcare, as well as the differences and disagreement(s) between his plan and Senator Clinton's. That plan and how he plans to fund it is outlined in great detail on his website, and was hashed out repeatedly during the debates.

Regarding the war in Iraq, which candidate(s) have been more specifc than the other regarding troop withdrawals or their plan to stay? I know that Clinton and Obama have both supported a phased down troop withdrawl with a deadline. John McCain, whom recently said he wanted troops out by 2013, never outlined specifically what that actually looks like in terms of phased down withdrawal.

On the issue of lobbying, I haven't heard one candidate speak more specifically and forcefully than Obama about their plan to change the culture of Washington and it's ties to federal lobbyist. In fact, he's already set the tone since becoming the nominee just a few days ago. The DNC, under Obama's direction, annonced they will no longer accept donations from Washington lobbyists and PACs. That's a huge development, that's change. But somehow it has managed to fly under the radar. [URL="http://www.democrats.org/a/2008/06/democratic_part_10.php"]The Democratic Party | Democratic Party Will No Longer Accept Washington Lobbyist Donations[/URL]

The only point I'm making is after 22 televised debates, a lot of rhetoric, I would argue whether Obama or any of the other candidates, for that matter, have been particularly more vague and general than the other. I think his is highlighted more often due to his unique ability to draw record size crowds and stir emotion and excitiment among voters, perharps, since RFK.

Re: Obama Clinches Democratic Nomination
 

Decent piece by NPR on the lobbyist story

[url=http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=91226631]Obama Bans DNC from Taking Lobbyists' Money : NPR[/url]

But I mean McCain-Feingold was kind of a big change wasn't it?