Re: Observation on Campbell
 

I'm not sold on him and have alot of the same concerns but I think he needs one more year in the system then decide. I'm tired of all the excuses for him and its time for him to produce. He now has to earn a new deal.

Re: Observation on Campbell
 

Let's put some perspective on this:

Matt Hasselbeck's first 3 seasons working with Zorn and Holmgren in Seattle:

2001: 176/321 54.8%, 2,023 yards, 7 TD, 8 INT, 70.9 rating
2002: 267/419 63.7%, 3,075 yards, 15 TD, 10 INT, 87.8 rating
2003: 313/513 61.0%, 3,841 yards, 26 TD, 15 INT, 88.8 rating

And here's what JC did in year 1 with Zorn:

2008: 315/506 62.3%, 3,245 yards, 13 TD, 6 INT, 84.3 rating

I think it's only fair we see how JC does in year 2 before any hard conclusions are made as to whether he can be a quality long term answer here or not. JC is already on par with what Hasselbeck did in year 2.

Re: Observation on Campbell
 

[quote=SBXVII;517440][B]Hey GM, perhaps I'm wrong but I thought the WCO was supposed to be the easiest to learn and the fastest[/B]. It has only a few to a hanful of basic formations that all the other plays develope from. I thought Gibbs system was supposed to be the hardest do to all the different base formations and motions.[/quote]

I'm no expert, but from my understanding it's the other way around. Steve Young said it takes a QB a minimum of two years to really become fully adept in the West Coast system. I believe it's one of the most complex.

Re: Observation on Campbell
 

[quote=Mattyk72;517450]Let's put some perspective on this:

Matt Hasselbeck's first 3 seasons working with Zorn and Holmgren in Seattle:

2001: 176/321 54.8%, 2,023 yards, 7 TD, 8 INT, 70.9 rating
2002: 267/419 63.7%, 3,075 yards, 15 TD, 10 INT, 87.8 rating
2003: 313/513 61.0%, 3,841 yards, 26 TD, 15 INT, 88.8 rating

And here's what JC did in year 1 with Zorn:

2008: 315/506 62.3%, 3,245 yards, 13 TD, 6 INT, 84.3 rating

I think it's only fair we see how JC does in year 2 before any hard conclusions are made as to whether he can be a quality long term answer here or not. JC is already on par with what Hasselbeck did in year 2.[/quote]

Right on. Hasselbeck was actually benched for Trent Dilfer mid-way through his first year as a starter in WCO, and still went on to multiple pro bowls and an NFC Championship.

Re: Observation on Campbell
 

[quote=Mattyk72;517450]
2001: 176/321 54.8%, 2,023 yards, 7 TD, 8 INT, 70.9 rating
2002: 267/419 63.7%, 3,075 yards, 15 TD, 10 INT, 87.8 rating
2003: 313/513 61.0%, 3,841 yards, 26 TD, 15 INT, 88.8 rating
And here's what JC did in year 1 with Zorn:
2008: 315/506 62.3%, 3,245 yards, 13 TD, 6 INT, 84.3 rating
[/quote]
Good Post, Matt also had 1 year on the bench in Green Bay.

[quote=SBXVII;517440]Hey GM, perhaps I'm wrong but I thought the WCO was supposed to be the easiest to learn and the fastest. It has only a few to a hanful of basic formations that all the other plays develope from. I thought Gibbs system was supposed to be the hardest do to all the different base formations and motions.[/quote]

[url=http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs05/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=2311953]ESPN - Hasselbeck thriving in West Coast offense - NFL[/url]
^^^John Clayton article
[COLOR="DarkRed"][SIZE="4"]SEATTLE -- Mike Holmgren professes that it takes three years to make a quarterback in the West Coast offense, and it takes five years for a West Coast quarterback to become a very good one.[/SIZE][/COLOR]

Re: Observation on Campbell
 

[quote=BeastsoftheNFCeast;517275]This is a little late to say now that the season is over...but its something thats been bugging me. Jason Campbell is slow in everything he does. When I watch him back in the pocket, he has no urgency to throw the ball; he takes forever to look look at his second or third target, he has a slow release on the ball, he doesnt drop back quickly, and hes not that fast of a runner (and the worst slider Ive ever seen...seriously its not that hard). I think he's got an OK arm (good strength, not so good acuracy), seems to make OK decisions when he throws the ball, but makes too many non decisions due to his slow processing. I really dont think this guy can get the job done and we need to get someone who can.[/quote]


no urgency because no receivers are getting open. 2nd and 3rd targets rarely get the ball because he is on his ass if he holds the ball for more than 2 or 3 seconds. Decent runner, does have to work on the sliding. very strong arm, good deep ball and thrown with a 60.2% accuracy. Pretty damn good. I dont think he was the problem.

Re: Observation on Campbell
 

[quote=Mattyk72;517450]Let's put some perspective on this:

Matt Hasselbeck's first 3 seasons working with Zorn and Holmgren in Seattle:

2001: 176/321 54.8%, 2,023 yards, 7 TD, 8 INT, 70.9 rating
2002: 267/419 63.7%, 3,075 yards, 15 TD, 10 INT, 87.8 rating
2003: 313/513 61.0%, 3,841 yards, 26 TD, 15 INT, 88.8 rating

And here's what JC did in year 1 with Zorn:

2008: 315/506 62.3%, 3,245 yards, 13 TD, 6 INT, 84.3 rating

I think it's only fair we see how JC does in year 2 before any hard conclusions are made as to whether he can be a quality long term answer here or not. JC is already on par with what Hasselbeck did in year 2.[/quote]

Thank You!

Re: Observation on Campbell
 

[quote=SBXVII;517340]JC is from the south. He has a laid back attitude about everything. We have to take the good with the bad. With this laid back attitude you get a calm collected pocket passer who does not get flustered. ...the bad is he's laid back and not in panick mode when we are 2 scores down with 3 min. left in the game.

The question is which do you want? the panicky QB who sometimes throws interceptions....Romo, or would you rather have the calm collected QB who controls the ball JC? Sometime teams get lucky and get the in between type of QB ie; Brady, Payton Manning, and Farve.[/quote]
he gets flustered, you can see it in his face, he just doesn't make it verbal it seems

favre owns the INT column

Re: Observation on Campbell
 

[quote=30gut;517343]Listen to these clips on Campbell especially Jaws breakdown:

[COLOR=Red]Jaws previews Cowboys-Giants, Colts-Patriots and Titans-Packers and says [SIZE=4]Jason Campbell is the MVP of the league[/SIZE][/COLOR]


[URL="http://search.espn.go.com/jason-campbell/audio/7"]Jason Campbell - Audio - ESPN[/URL][/quote]
that was in october

Re: Observation on Campbell
 

[quote=bedlamVR;517371]I know 99% of the fans have made their minds up on Campbell regardless of what is played out on the field .

I have read their arguments and the though out counter arguments and seen Campbell play every game this year ... and yes he has had bad plays along with good plays . Along with a bunch of other players ...

and to be honest, after looking at everything. I can come up with just one conculsion and it is not said lightly ..its not Campbell it maybe something wrong with some of the fans ... .. I just cannot help but think if Campbell was white ... then we would not be looking for his replacement ...I know they would not be calling for some guy drafted in the 6th round who has shown nothing in an NFL game ... comments about him being dumb and his attitude because he is from the south just sound I don't know like some of you are posting on here with pointy white hats and burning crosses ...[/quote]

you're making a non-issue into an issue

the south "laid back style" transcends color man

Re: Observation on Campbell
 

[quote=bedlamVR;517376]Okay I am sorry about the last post but it needed to be said .. I do think some of the attitude towards 17 is because of the colour of his skin .

I am just fustrated with every single message board and Redskins blog being filled with the same drivel . He holds the ball too long he locks onto one reciever etc etc

I have heard some very compelling evidence on both sides of the arguments but so many of the anti Campbell posters would rather be right so perpetuate the myth rather than actually look at what is happening .

Give the team time ... Give Campbell time and we will see who is right .

And btw I think you can track the teams woes on offense back to when Samuels knee really started to bother him (Steelers game I think ) just a thought[/quote]

but yes, he definitely locks in too much.. telegraphs every throw and if he doesn't have cooley or someone to drop it off to, he's lost... a lot of qb's only look at one side of the field and it seems like he looks at even less

regardless, I think that he'll get into the system and I believe that he's good enough to not be a liability to the team and program, but we have to grow in other areas to allow this

Re: Observation on Campbell
 

[quote=bedlamVR;517419]The redskins were also the last team include black players - Bobby Mitchell in 1964 - proud of that fact ?
[/quote]

Shutup, many of us weren't even alive and none of us were the GM's, owners, coaches, etc

Most of our avatars are of black players, we tend to love Portis, etc.. Cooley is about the only white guy that anyone that loves our team has a boner for, other than Brennan

for some reason you WANT that to be the issue, it's ridiculous

Re: Observation on Campbell
 

I can't believe we are even talking about race in regards to Campbell.

Re: Observation on Campbell
 

[quote=WaldSkins;517495]I can't believe we are even talking about race in regards to Campbell.[/quote]
seriously

or even in the NFL

EDIT: not including philly

Re: Observation on Campbell
 

[quote=tryfuhl;517492]but yes, he definitely locks in too much.. telegraphs every throw and if he doesn't have cooley or someone to drop it off to, he's lost... a lot of qb's only look at one side of the field and it seems like he looks at even less [/quote]

What makes you say this?

One of the things Zorn and others (Jaws, Aikman) praise Jason for is that he [B][I]does[/I][/B] go through his progressions.

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/11/26/ST2008112604197.html]Campbell Is Earning Zorn's Trust - washingtonpost.com[/url]

The tendency was something Zorn knew he would have to address with Campbell, but the former Seahawks quarterback smiled as he analyzed the young signal caller's performance during his news conference later in the day.

[COLOR="Indigo"]"Remember, at the beginning of the season I couldn't get him off that receiver and now he is off him, you know, five yards down the field. Boy, he's looking for number two and number three," the first-year head coach said, chuckling. "So we'll get him back on track. I think he's playing well, though." [/COLOR]

I don't know bro, this is like a direct contradiction of what you're saying huh?

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[quote=tryfuhl;517490]that was in october[/quote]

But it doesn't change the [B][U][SIZE="3"][COLOR="Red"]fact[/COLOR][/SIZE][/U][/B] that Jason was at one point being considered for league MVP.

Here's a question for you and [B]BeastsoftheNFCeast[/B] and [B]BigHairedAristocrat[/B]

If Jason was being considered for MVP can you admit that Jason was at least playing well in the 1st half of the season?

Here are some more quotes you might like:
[url=http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/redskins/2008-10-23-sw-cover_N.htm]With tough love from Zorn, Campbell now among elite QBs - USATODAY.com[/url]

[COLOR="DarkRed"]Former Pittsburgh Steelers head coach Bill Cowher considers Campbell a leading candidate for mid-season league MVP.[/COLOR]

[COLOR="DarkRed"]"Jason Campbell has played as well as anybody has in the NFL at his position," Cowher, now a CBS analyst, says. "He's thrown for good numbers. He's got no turnovers. He's big, strong and able to move out of the pocket and make throws down the field.

"He's brought his team back when they've been down. I've been very impressed with Jason Campbell's play."[/COLOR]
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[COLOR="Red"]Fox Sports lead NFL analyst Troy Aikman says[/COLOR][COLOR="Red"]"With all the coaching changes, I didn't know how it would play out with Jim Zorn becoming a first-time head coach and play-caller and losing defensive coordinator Gregg Williams and Jason Campbell having to learn a new system again."
"The reason they're closing people out is the way Jim Zorn is calling games.
"He's going for it on fourth down and throwing on first down in the fourth quarter because Jason understands about taking care of the ball."[/COLOR]

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[COLOR="Orange"]"I thought Jason would eventually play well under Jim Zorn," ESPN Monday Night Football analyst Ron Jaworski says. "I didn't think he'd play this well, this early.
"I've seen his game ascending. He can make every throw a quarterback has to have, the tough stick throw, the deep out, the seam route. He has great anticipation. I thought he'd become a rock-solid quarterback.
"That it's happened this quickly really is a tribute to Jim Zorn."[/COLOR]