Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=Giantone;923147]Sammy in base they are the same,like it or not.Yes there are some differences in language and such...but make no mistake they are based on the same thing.When I retire in 36 months I'll have to pay 1200 a month for health care for my wife and myself and does'nt include .....what I call healthy care "preventative" care ,my wife has had 2 bouts of skin cancer once others see that word either they won't accept her or will not pay for any treatment related to it.
In 1994 my dad sufferd a stroke and 4 days after he was released home(bed ridden and unable to talk or walk)Blue Cross of New York dropped him....my Mom lost our family home becuase of this,now yes she was mad and fought back and in 7 years won, now that was 2 years after dad had passed and the house was gone to pay bills,sorry for the tiraid but under this new bill that can't happen and that's good.

P.S....the majority in this country "DO" want Obamacare as you put it....they just don't want what the GOP is selling it as.[/quote]I'm very sorry to hear about your family's issues with the health care system. I'm no fan of status quo either, I have a firsthand experience very similar to what you experienced with your father, coincidentally in the eary '90s as well.

The system needs changes, but Obamacare is not the way. Also, if you checked the links I originally posted it's pretty clear the majority do not want Obamacare as it stands today.

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=Daseal;923160]When religions start paying some taxes in this country they can have a say about that, until then -- offer contraceptives. They're not forcing anyone to USE them, just OFFER them to people interested. [/quote]So to have universal healthcare/Obamacare, you're willing to throw out the protection of Freedom of Religion in the 1st Ammendment. So unless religious institutions pay a "fine", "tax", or whatever you want to call it, they are forced to violate deeply held core religious beliefs?

You understand the HHS mandate also requires for sterilization and the abortion drugs, correct. This isn't about contraception, it's about people being FORCED to violate their religious beliefs.

You may not care about this, but you're barking WAAAAYYYY up the wrong tree on this one.

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;923162] So unless religious institutions pay a "fine", "tax", or whatever you want to call it, they are forced to violate deeply held core religious beliefs?

You understand the HHS mandate also requires for sterilization and the abortion drugs, correct. This isn't about contraception, it's about people being FORCED to violate their religious beliefs.

You may not care about this, but you're barking WAAAAYYYY up the wrong tree on this one.[/quote]



...but Christians don't mind when they force other people onto THEIR beliefs. (abortion/gay marriage)


Funny how that works.


IT"S OK IF I VIOLATE YOUR RIGHTS DUE TO MY RELIGION BUT YOU AREN'T ALLOWED TO DO THE SAME!!! (condescending tone intended)

Christians have and will continue to be some of the biggest hypocrites I have ever encountered. (this is purely a statement on MY experiences)

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;923161]The system needs changes, but Obamacare is not the way. Also, if you checked the links I originally posted it's pretty clear the majority do not want Obamacare as it stands today.[/quote]


It's not pretty clear. What is clear is that many people that do oppose it think it doesn't go far enough. Look, I have polls too!

[url=http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2010/01/12/cbs-poll-for-many-health-care-reform-does-not-go-far-enough/]CBS Poll: For Many, Health Care Reform Does Not Go Far Enough | FDL Action[/url]

[quote]The most interesting questions in the poll were about whether people think reform went far enough or went too far: When asked about trying to “provide health insurance to as many Americans as possible,” 32% said that the plan goes too far, 35% said it doesn’t go far enough, and 22% said it is about right.[/quote]



If you claim the system needs changing, but Obamacare is not the way, then why in the hell hasn't the GOP or any other talking head conservative come up with a plan? Oh I know why, because they don't want one. That's why.

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;923123]You check Romney's fundraising numbers today?

The gov't forcing people to buy health insurance or pay a penalty...tax...or whatever Obama calls it today fires people up. The gov't forcing religious based charities and hospitals to violate their deeply held beliefs or be fined out of existence fires people up.

This certainly ain't anywhere near close to over.[/quote]

We've been going around and around on this for a few years now.

So, the thing that Mitt Romney did in Massachusetts is now constitutional for the nation, making his entire argument one of philosophy. I don't see how the animates the race long-term. Can't wait to hear Romney explain that and keep the base fired up.

Yesterday was a clear win for Americans, Obama and, yes, liberals. We won. It's as simple as that. No spin. See you in November.

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=Lotus;923109]The ACA became law through legislative vote and approval by the Supreme Court. These are democratic processes. The ACA was adopted by democratic process, end of story.

[B]We know it was a democratic process because the individual mandate was not part of Obama's original plan[/B].[/quote]

Not sure what your talking about but the mandate is the only way Obama plan would ever work.

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=NC_Skins;923165]It's not pretty clear. What is clear is that many people that do oppose it think it doesn't go far enough. Look, I have polls too!

[URL="http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2010/01/12/cbs-poll-for-many-health-care-reform-does-not-go-far-enough/"]CBS Poll: For Many, Health Care Reform Does Not Go Far Enough | FDL Action[/URL]





If you claim the system needs changing, but Obamacare is not the way, then why in the hell hasn't the GOP or any other talking head conservative come up with a plan? Oh I know why, because they don't want one. That's why.[/quote]

The right has presented several plans.

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[QUOTE=NC_Skins;923060]They are also one of the states with the highest cost of living. Your point?

[URL="http://www.cnbc.com/id/43484111/The_Most_Expensive_States_To_Live_In_2011?slide=2"]News Headlines[/URL]



Let's delve further into your claim about the health insurance and see what we can find. Oooo...lookie here. I want you to read the whole article so that why you won't be propagating misleading info.

[URL="http://www.boston.com/lifestyle/health/health_stew/2011/11/does_massachusetts_have_the_na.html"]Does Massachusetts Have the Nation’s Highest Health Insurance Premiums? It Depends. - Health Stew - Boston.com[/URL]




Checkmate.[/QUOTE

Well I guess you can also explain why the Mass. healthcare cost are increasing faster then the national average.

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=firstdown;923169]The right has presented several plans.[/quote]

Links? Cliff notes?

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=firstdown;923171]Well I guess you can also explain why the Mass. healthcare cost are increasing faster then the national average.[/quote]

In case you missed it one more time. Far and away better than most states it seems, but you GOPers like to try and use numbers to skew things.

[IMG]http://www.boston.com/lifestyle/health/health_stew/Figure%206.jpeg.png[/IMG]

Nice try. (not really)

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=NC_Skins;923164]...but Christians don't mind when they force other people onto THEIR beliefs. (abortion/gay marriage)

Funny how that works.

IT"S OK IF I VIOLATE YOUR RIGHTS DUE TO MY RELIGION BUT YOU AREN'T ALLOWED TO DO THE SAME!!! (condescending tone intended)
[/quote]Last I checked there was no right to abortion or gay marriage in the Constitution or Bill of Rights. Also, while most Christians are opposed to gay marriage, I haven't seen any calls from organized religion for fines on any gay rights organizations.

As far as abortion goes most Christians view abortion as taking a human life....I guess unborn children have no right to [B]LIFE[/B], Liberty, or the Pursuit of Happiness. Wanting to stop or limit the killing of innocent life and lobbying the government to restrict these procedures is vastly different from a government forcing religious organizations to provide contraception, sterilization and abortion drugs or being fined out of existence.

I know your views will never change, because in your mind you're always right/ But for others who have interest here's where the Catholic Church stands on the issue.
[URL]http://www.usccb.org/issues-and-action/religious-liberty/conscience-protection/upload/Twelve-Things-Everyone-Should-Know-About-the-Contraceptive-Mandate.pdf[/URL]

Good luck to Obama and the left, pissing off 60M+ Americans who are normally split close down the middle D/R.

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;923184]Good luck to Obama and the left, pissing off 60M+ Americans who are normally split close down the middle D/R.[/quote]


For the record, I'm against Obama.


I posted a link in the Presidential thread that can give you many reasons to hate his Presidency, which I have. His health care is actually one of the positives. It's not perfect, but it's better than what any other president or congressman has done.

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=NC_Skins;923172]Links? Cliff notes?[/quote]

well one passed lil Bush where he litterally let lobbies write up the perscription bill plane, which has exceeded cost, think that was 2003.

Nothing else substantial or serious other than cutting medicare and medicade, which cutting is not a plan.

Avg industrial nation spends bout 11-12% on health care (a staggering amount imo). We have had no plan approach and our costs are approaching 18%. That cost will only rise but our country has a massive and I mean MASSIVE all caps massive (the most serious) baby boomer generation retiring, those costs will only increase.

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=Chico23231;923187]well one passed lil Bush where he litterally let lobbies write up the perscription bill plane, which has exceeded cost, think that was 2003.

Nothing else substantial or serious other than cutting medicare and medicade, which cutting is not a plan.

Avg industrial nation spends bout 11-12% on health care (a staggering amount imo). [B]We have had no plan approach and our costs are approaching 18%. That cost will only rise but our country has a massive and I mean MASSIVE all caps massive (the most serious) baby boomer generation retiring, those costs will only increase[/B].[/quote]These are no where near actual legislation, but key points of GOP plans:

[URL]http://camp.house.gov/UploadedFiles/Summary_of_Republican_Alternative_Health_Care_plan.pdf[/URL]

[url=http://www.gop.gov/indepth/pledge/healthcare]Repeal and Replace the Job-Destroying Health Care Law - A Pledge to America - GOP.gov[/url]

Agree 100% on bolded point, and lil Bush should've never pushed the prescription drug plan.

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=12thMan;923167]See you in November.[/quote]In the spirit of Chris Christie opening up sportsbooks in NJ, the SS33 Presidential Election window is still open for those over-confident souls who wish to donate :)

and I promise no tweets in Nov with b****s or m********r references.