Re: Amerson Waived
 

[quote=30gut;1137586]David Amerson tops PFF’s award list for Most Improved Player



Amerson was the Redskins’ second-round pick in 2013, and saw the field in every game during his rookie season. He struggled with consistency throughout the year, and finished with a relatively low coverage grade, which placed him 92nd out of 110 cornerbacks. Last season his coverage grade dropped even further, and he slid all the way down to 106th at his position. Amerson was released after Week 1 this season, and was subsequently picked up by the Raiders, where he’s been a completely different player ever since.

The former NC State standout posted a positive production grade in 2015, despite being targeted 104 times (sixth-most among NFL CBs). On those targets, he allowed just 58 completions and one touchdown. He tied for fifth overall with 13 passes defensed, and also picked off four passes. Last season, he allowed more completions (61) on fewer targets (91), and an NFL-high 10 touchdowns when targeted. Quarterbacks had a 140.2 rating when targeting Amerson in 2014; this season, that number has dropped to 62.7. His improvements have brought him up to an 83.4 overall grade, good for 15th out of all cornerbacks this season.[/quote]

[url]https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2016/01/13/pro-pffs-most-improved-players-in-2015/[/url]

Blake Bortles is on the list after leading the Jags to 5-11.

Where is Kirk Cousins?

All he did was go from benched to leading the league in completion %, setting franchise records, leading 4th quarter comebacks and taking a team with a 30+ preseason power ranking to the playoffs. All with one of the crappiest running games in the league.

PFF is garbage actually.

Re: Amerson Waived
 

[quote=DYoungJelly;1137680][url]https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2016/01/13/pro-pffs-most-improved-players-in-2015/[/url]

Blake Bortles is on the list after leading the Jags to 5-11.

Where is Kirk Cousins?

All he did was go from benched to leading the league in completion %, setting franchise records, leading 4th quarter comebacks and taking a team with a 30+ preseason power ranking to the playoffs. All with one of the crappiest running games in the league.

PFF is garbage actually.[/quote]

It's not garbage but it certainly doesn't tell the whole picture. I think it gives you an honest, technical piece where it puts the player in a box. It leaves out a lot of variables...and some intangibles. I got a subscription around thanksgiving...pretty cheap. a handful of teams that use profootball focus as a reference.

Re: Amerson Waived
 

which teams are paying them? and how much? are they giving one guy in the brown's scouting department a $1/year subscription just so they can say that an nfl team actually uses them? they can't say, cause "secrets" right? so it's an unverified fact reported on by the self-interested.

outsiders does a better job, and draftscout does an even better job (but they don't do advanced metrics, they mainly grade/rank college players).

Re: Amerson Waived
 

[quote=That Guy;1137685]which teams are paying them? and how much? are they giving one guy in the brown's scouting department a $1/year subscription just so they can say that an nfl team actually uses them? they can't say, cause "secrets" right? so it's an unverified fact reported on by the self-interested.

outsiders does a better job, and draftscout does an even better job (but they don't do advanced metrics, they mainly grade/rank college players).[/quote]

Oh yeah outsiders is great, different than profootball focus, but they do a great job.

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[quote=Chico23231;1137683]It's not garbage but it certainly doesn't tell the whole picture. I think it gives you an honest, technical piece where it puts the player in a box. It leaves out a lot of variables...and some intangibles. I got a subscription around thanksgiving...pretty cheap. a handful of teams that use profootball focus as a reference.[/quote]

PFF is garbage.

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[quote=Meks;1137678]I CAN'T Believe that Dallas Startz guy never panned out......[/quote]

i wanted mason crosby.

Re: Amerson Waived
 

[quote=Chico23231;1137683]It's not garbage but it certainly doesn't tell the whole picture. I think it gives you an honest, technical piece where it puts the player in a box. It leaves out a lot of variables...and some intangibles. I got a subscription around thanksgiving...pretty cheap. a handful of teams that use profootball focus as a reference.[/quote]I used to love PFF. Prior to this year if you paid for the premium account [I][B]all[/B][/I] their content was available and it was awesome. They are the closet thing you can get to team grades and they had other 'signature stats' like: tackling efficiency, pass rush productivity, QB in focus, SS/FS splits then game situation stats that detailed tendencies based on formations/personnel. They've gone 'big time' now and save their more meaningful data for NFL/NCAA only. Many former subscribers didn't re-up this year and PFF received an influx of e-mail form their previous subscribers decrying their new format. If you like their content now its nothing compared to what it used to be.

It seems like several people in this thread wear their ignorance of PFF as a badge of honor and I've never understood that (in regards to anything really).

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[quote=DYoungJelly;1137680]Blake Bortles is on the list after leading the Jags to 5-11.

Where is Kirk Cousins?[/quote]They aren't grading team performance they are grading individual performance.

This post seems like you are saying because Kirk wasn't on their most improved list therefore they're garbage?

Okay.

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[quote=That Guy;1137685]which teams are paying them? and how much? are they giving one guy in the brown's scouting department a $1/year subscription just so they can say that an nfl team actually uses them? they can't say, cause "secrets" right? so it's an unverified fact reported on by the self-interested.[/quote]I don't know which teams use them nor how much it costs them. But I have no reason to doubt their claim that 19 NFL teams use their service. If that were a false claim I'm sure they would be held accountable. Also, I'm pretty sure they would gladly list which NFL teams use them but I would guess it more a matter of non-disclosure/confidentially then 'cuz secrets'. But again, to each their own.

Here's is a Gunther Cunningham anyhow...

[B][COLOR="SeaGreen"].....Cunningham still records some of the same statistics on his own, including time to throw or defensive targets (mostly out of habit), but he and defensive quality control coach Matt Raich lean on Pro Football Focus to shave time off their research. Before the Cowboys game, for instance, it took them less than 30 minutes to pull up all the shotgun plays Dallas had used during its previous five games. They were able to discern the personnel groups, in part, by looking at the play diagrams and corresponding video footage. “As soon as you get an idea what the team is doing, it helps with guys like Ndamukong Suh and Ezekiel Ansah, because you can say, when they’re in shotgun, pin your ears back and go get ’em,” Cunningham says. “It’s not guesswork.” If the Lions were playing New England, Cunningham adds, he could quickly sort the PFF database for all offensive plays with unbalanced lines to help prepare for the Patriots’ eligible/ineligible gambit......

....Cunningham agrees with some of Zimmer’s criticism. Even after spending five seasons as the Lions’ defensive coordinator, Cunningham found it initially difficult to wrap his head around what everyone is supposed to be doing in Teryl Austin’s new system. So PFF analysts grading players without knowing the defensive call is one area, he says, “where they are a little bit short.” But Cunningham has also seen the reverse: coaches grading favorite players more easily, or giving themselves too much credit for placing a player in the correct position when he makes a play. When one Lions player raised a stink about how Pro Football Focus graded him this season, Cunningham checked the PFF grades against his own analysis. “I wanted so much to tell him,” Cunningham says, “that they were right on the money.” [/COLOR][/B]

[quote]outsiders does a better job, and draftscout does an even better job (but they don't do advanced metrics, they mainly grade/rank college players).[/quote]I like Football Outsiders and nfldraftscout/cbs too but they offer different services then PFF.

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[quote=30gut;1137902]They aren't grading team performance they are grading individual performance.

This post seems like you are saying because Kirk wasn't on their most improved list therefore they're garbage?

Okay.[/quote]

You left the part out where I mentioned all of Kirk's INDIVIDUAL accomplishments that supported how much he improved INDIVIDUALLY.

How is Kirk not on any list for the most improved player?

Blake Bortles still sucks donkey balls:

[url=http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb]FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | QUARTERBACKS 2015[/url]

It was just one example of why PFF is garbage.

Would love for Mudd or whoever botched the grade on Trent so badly, to sit down and go through that game play by play with Cooley and explain why they graded him the way they did.

The quote you cite from Gunther Cunningham actually addresses the same criticism of PFF on this thread. He says player grading is where they fall short and uses the service for stats.

The issue is how can they grade a player when they don't know the play or the players' responsibility. Umm, . In fairness, he does mention the grading of one player where he did agree with PFF.

They screwed Trent's grade up big time and nobody knows if it's an anomaly or a crappy product because nobody knows:
1. who graded it,
2. the standard it was graded by,
3. the bias of the grader
4. how quickly the grade was churned out,
5. how many times the play was watched,
6. or the grader's knowledge of Trent's responsibility on a given play.

It's not shocking that a person in a position of talent evaluation would rely on an outside service for stats, I seriously doubt that any GM or coach relies on PFF for grading a game performance. It's just common sense, why would they rely on strangers who don't know what the responsibilities are?

Do these other 19 nfl teams use PFF for grades or, like Cunningham, for stats?

No way they use their grades, just want to see your response.

I hope Blake Bortles gets some money out of this sham.

EDIT:

Please let me clarify. PFF's player grades are garbage. I honestly have no idea about their stats.

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[quote=DYoungJelly;1137922]You left the part out where I mentioned all of Kirk's INDIVIDUAL accomplishments that supported how much he improved INDIVIDUALLY.

How is Kirk not on any list for the most improved player?[/quote]Did you every think that maybe Kirk graded out better then Blake last year? Therefore although Blake, still rated below Kirk btw, improved more from his rating last year to this year?


[quote]Would love for Mudd or whoever botched the grade on Trent so badly, to sit down and go through that game play by play with Cooley and explain why they graded him the way they did.[/quote]The infallible Chris Cooley had a different grade for Trent in some game (btw what game are you even talking about? and what was the grade that has you in a fit?) therefore Chris must be right, right?

According to Pro Football Focus, the 2016 Pro Bowler was ranked as the [B][U]sixth-best left tackle in the NFL[/U][/B], and [U][B]the eighth-best overall[/B][/U]. Williams allowed just 19 total quarterback pressures and two total sacks in his 14 games.

But again, because of some unnamed game and unnamed grade its garbage, lol.

[quote]The quote you cite from Gunther Cunningham actually addresses the same criticism of PFF on this thread. He says player grading is where they fall short and uses the service for stats.[/quote]Lol, that is not what he said. (Did you even read the article?) He referenced specifically to grading exotic schemes defensive blitz scheme where assignments are unknown. And we're not talking about criticism because obviously they have several, any stat has weaknesses. The argument isn't over whether or not PFF has flaws, of course it does, the argument is over whether or not 'its garbage' or should be discounted out of hand.



[quote]The issue is how can they grade a player when they don't know the play or the players' responsibility. Umm, . In fairness, he does mention the grading of one player where he did agree with PFF.[/quote]Lol, c'mon really? grading of one player?

[quote][COLOR="Green"]Cunningham is speaking over the phone to The MMQB, but he sends a picture of his oversized computer screens, on which he’s using PFF’s play analysis tool to sort defensive plays based on the Cowboys’ offensive formations

Cunningham still records some of the same statistics on his own, including time to throw or defensive targets (mostly out of habit), but he and defensive quality control coach Matt Raich lean on Pro Football Focus to shave time off their research.
Before the Cowboys game, for instance, it took them less than 30 minutes to pull up all the shotgun plays Dallas had used during its previous five games. They were able to discern the personnel groups, in part, by looking at the play diagrams and corresponding video footage.“As soon as you get an idea what the team is doing, it helps with guys like Ndamukong Suh and Ezekiel Ansah, because you can say, when they’re in shotgun, pin your ears back and go get ’em,” Cunningham says. “It’s not guesswork.” If the Lions were playing New England, Cunningham adds, he could quickly sort the PFF database for all offensive plays with unbalanced lines to help prepare for the Patriots’ eligible/ineligible gambit[/COLOR][/quote].

[quote]They screwed Trent's grade up big time[/quote]You keep saying this but where is your proof? Based on what? How did they screw up Trent's grade?
Again this is their overall on Trent:
According to Pro Football Focus, the 2016 Pro Bowler was ranked as the [B][U]sixth-best left tackle in the NFL[/U][/B], and [U][B]the eighth-best overall[/B][/U]. Williams allowed just 19 total quarterback pressures and two total sacks in his 14 games.


[quote]1. who graded it,
2. the standard it was graded by,
3. the bias of the grader
4. how quickly the grade was churned out,
5. how many times the play was watched,
6. or the grader's knowledge of Trent's responsibility on a given play.[/quote]The information on their process is out there, you just choose to plead ignorance to their process.

[quote]It's not shocking that a person in a position of talent evaluation would rely on an outside service for stats, I seriously doubt that any GM or coach relies on PFF for grading a game performance. It's just common sense, why would they rely on strangers who don't know what the responsibilities are?[/quote]Who said they rely on PFF? No one.

Re: Amerson Waived
 

Anyhow its all good.

I just find it amusing that some people consider PFF garbage at the same time their content is gaining more and more credibility and being used by more teams NFL and college.

I'm out, PFF garbage! rah, rah!

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[url=http://www.csnmidatlantic.com/redskinsblog/redskins-grades-trent-williams-does-well-bot-surprises-galore-pff]Redskins grades: Trent Williams does well, but surprises galore from Pro Football Focus | CSN Mid-Atlantic[/url]

pretty sure it was the skins-eagles game.

PFF is what it is. Seems like a really detailed, easy to navigate data base. The raw detailed stats speak for themselves. The grades - people can take them or leave them as they choose.

if a person wants to count or discount PFF grades, that is their choice and you cant change their mind anyway.

Re: Amerson Waived
 

I don't know how you guys manage to make football nerdy, but congratulations, you did it.

Now STFU already with this pro football focus bullshit. Amerson got better, so what.

Kirk is good, we know this.

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[quote=30gut;1137926]
The infallible Chris Cooley had a different grade for Trent in some game (btw what game are you even talking about? and what was the grade that has you in a fit?) therefore Chris must be right, right?
.[/quote]

CC might as well be dating sean mcvay. he knows the assignments and the offense. if you've listened to his breakdowns (and they post pics of plays to follow along with the analysis) you'd know that. no offence, but i'd trust his grade as someone that talks to the OC every week and watches 20 hours of skins tape a week over some stranger that has to churn out 200+ grades by monday morning.