Re: Rooting for minor injury?
 

nah you're fine. at one point i thought brunell might have hurt his hand or something and i'd be lying if i said that didn't cross my mind.

all in all i'd like to think that the coaches will make the right decision. we're lucky we play houston next as a W will start to make us feel better.

i don't think anyone should fight too much, we're all on the same team here.

you can lurk around and post as many times as you want but it doesn't mean we know crap about football.

Re: Rooting for minor injury?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;216763]Right.

You question my credibility and then sit there like you're the innocent victim. Please.

Sorry if you got your ass chapped about the TiVo comment, but hey I've got a DVR too and I can't see the WR routes and coverages. There are plenty of things going on that we can't see. I don't think it's as simple as saying I've got TiVo so I know what's wrong with the offense and it's all Brunell.[/quote]

Never said that Matt. I said that it seemed like WRs were open but Brunnell either could not or would not make the throw. I never said that a QB change was all the offense needed, but it would certainly be a good start. At least if we had a QB that could make the throw, it would give the coaching staff some options in the play calling. Im calling for a QB change and let the pieces fall where they may. Like I said, Id rather be 4-12 with Campbell than 8-8 with Brunnell.

Re: Time to bench Brunell?
 

can't run if you can't pass

Re: Rooting for minor injury?
 

we better watch it playing houston.. we do not have a good record against AFC teams.. no matter who it is look at last year. we lost to oakland just hope we can break that jinx.

Re: Time to bench Brunell?
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;216761]I have to agree with that too. I watched the Falcons game and watch them totally own the Buccaneers all day. This is the same, awesome Tampa Bay defense that we watch every year and they were totally outmanned. When are we going to dominate games like that?[/quote]

when we get good qb play. not better qb play, GOOD/GREAT qb play.

Re: Time to bench Brunell?
 

[quote=Gmanc711;216433]But damn, Brunell just looked awful. I mean when Dallas blitzes 8 guys, SOMEONE has to be open...SOMEONE is one on one, there has to be a check route or something. I mean he missed open recivers, he taking too long in the pocket, he's playing scared, he would throw the ball too quickly somtimes. Overall he just dosent look comfrotable at all; and really looks like he's hurt somewhere in there.[/quote] On a couple of occasions last night, Dallas would blitz and Brunell would throw an accurate albiet soft pass in a spot where only his guy can get it. All those passes were dropped. I remember vividly one with Moss, and one with Randle El. Brunell is doing a lot of what I expect from a veteran QB. In 2 losses, he's only been picked off once. He completed 60% against the Vikings, so I don't know what the big deal is there. Chalk up a bad game vs. Dallas, I guess, even though that was more a product of the entire team getting destroyed than anything. Brunell is giving us no more than we expected, but let's face it, to beat Dallas without Portis, Brunell was going to have to have a really good day. I'm not going to hold it against him that he didn't, setbacks are part of the game.

Re: Rooting for minor injury?
 

[quote=paulskinsfan;216769]Never said that Matt. I said that it seemed like WRs were open but Brunnell either could not or would not make the throw. I never said that a QB change was all the offense needed, but it would certainly be a good start. At least if we had a QB that could make the throw, it would give the coaching staff some options in the play calling. Im calling for a QB change and let the pieces fall where they may. Like I said, Id rather be 4-12 with Campbell than 8-8 with Brunnell.[/quote]

You've changed your tune a bit, your initial wording was a bit stronger.

[quote]I have TiVo, so I really break down the plays. [B]Did anyone else notice that we had WRs open[/B], but Brunnell either could not or would not make the throw?[/quote]

Now you say it [i]seemed[/i] like WRs were open, which I can buy.

Re: Rooting for minor injury?
 

sometimes they seemed open sure. but you're an idiot if you think that just because a team blitzes or there's pressure on the QB that you can't complete a pass.

there are adjustments to be made and i don't think brunell has the ability to make quick, strong throws based on what i've seen. the game still requires that someone step up and make some plays and that has to start with the QB, especially until CP gets back.

Re: Time to bench Brunell?
 

[quote=Grim21Reaper;216766]John Madden says Brunell is the problem.

Doc Walker says Brunell is the problem.

I just do not understand why Gibbs has chosen Brunell to carry the flag. I was embarrassed for Brunell last night. He looked worse than he did in '04.[/quote]

I agree 100 percent. Let's hope Gibbs' mind open enough not to let blind faith in No. 8 get in the way. If Brunell starts next week, we lose to the lousy Texans.

Re: Time to bench Brunell?
 

I quickly voted "Yes" on this one. I was a supporter of Brunell's without wavering until the 3rd quarter last night. He has absolutely no clue what Saunders is trying to do. Looking at his face as he walks off the field its' like he's saying, "Man, I knew that play wasn't going to work". I don't think he knows what he's doing. He is a scrambling, bootleg QB that reacts to the Defense in order to make a play. The total opposite of Saunders (and Gibbs) timing-based offense.

Campbell could easily have thrown for 45 yards this game, anyone, and I mean anyone, could have.

Absolutely terrible performance for a 36 year old QB. I would not even have expected Heath Shuler or Cary Conklin to play this bad.

Right now, I have zero confidence in Brunell. I had this feeling two years ago and he pulled through but I'm done with that.

Re: Rooting for minor injury?
 

I have never gotten in on the MB bashing on this site before and I usually have supported him...but last night was the final straw for me. I am done...no more MB. The object of the NFL is to win the Super Bowl and he can't do that. It's time for Campbell...I won't root for the injury but I won't shed a tear if it happens either.

Re: Bench Brunell
 

While watching the game last night, Brunell looks plain awful. He looks like a deer in the headlights, afraid to make a mistake, and afraid to go downfield. However, part of it has to be the playcalling. There were several plays before the 4th quarter where all Brunell had to do was step up in the pocket to throw, and held onto the ball way too long.

The OLine got beat by a very fast DLine and LBs, who were blitzing at will. Blocking schemes, when they worked, were ineffective because Brunell can't get the ball downfield.

However...neither Collins or Campbell are the answer. And the coaching staff knows this. Campbell needs more time learning the system, and Collins is no better than Brunell. A little confidence goes a long way, and if it can't be built facing the Texans, you can pretty much pack it up.

Re: Bench Brunell
 

how would everyone feel if the skins announced Todd Collins as the starter? i think that the would be the alternative

Re: Time to bench Brunell?
 

and all last year we thought we didn't have enough bullets but it's seeming more and more that we need a new gun.

oooh i like that.

Re: Time to bench Brunell?
 

I fully agree to bench Brunell. He clearly will never get any better. He looked lost & without confidence. You could see it in Santana's face when he lined up in the 4thQ that he was done running routes for Brunell.

My reasons for benching Brunell are simple.
1. He never really settled in the pocket & looked deep
2. His rollouts were more like scrambles
3. His arm is weaker then last season
4. Lastly, the D knew that he was uncomfortable & exploited it after the 1stQ
5. Okay, one more reason, Campbell is younger, stronger, faster, & taller to see the entire field & move his feel upfield without cause for any major concern of injury unlike Brunell & his almost 40 body.

Campbell is the future & the future starts in Week 3!!!

The kid needs to learn & Houston is the perfect setting for Campbells debut. Houston will not pressure Campbell enough for him to make any major mistake & the O-line needs a confidence booster in pass protection, like <<HELLO>> block somebody already!

Thank you for letting me speak my mind :benched:

Re: Time to bench Brunell?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;216753]Really?

So Samuels getting beat around the corner is due to MB?

Jansen flinching on false starts is due to MB?

I'm not letting MB off the hook completely, but there were several occassions last night where it was an absolute jail break on the pass rush.[/quote]

There was a jail break all day on Eli Manning too, especially on that last blitz the Eagles threw at him before he got the ball to Plaxico. Did he lose his composure? Don't think so! Needless to say, you know what the end result was in that game! Mark Brunell is done! And as long as he continues to start, we will continue to lose! (Exception: Houston Texans) But if we lose that game too then everything we have been saying about Mark Brunell will have been validated.

Re: Bench Brunell
 

I.........personally.........would have a FREEKIN' STROKE

Re: Bench Brunell
 

the worst thing is i like brunell. it sucks when players you like just seemingly don't have it anymore.

and people have been mentioning that AA sucks.

uhh... duhhh we knew he was a waste since he was signed. clark was clearly the better choice (factoring in salary). i'd definitely take someone like ty law and keep RC.

that's the last i'll say of that.

Re: Time to bench Brunell?
 

Hey, Mods can we merge the Brunell threads?

I'm getting tired of pissing in two pots.

Re: Rooting for minor injury?
 

do you 2 realize how easy it is to watch film and say so and so should do this, or so and so was open? the speed of the nfl is so fast, split second decisions have to made, right or wrong. my beef with brunell is exactly that, making piss poor reads. on the interception, roy williams was brunells key, and he makes that throw, he cannot have all that wind under it. cooley was covered, but any good receiver learns to make a play, look at plaxico play at the end of the giants game

Re: Rooting for minor injury?
 

unless i get really fast and strong i think i'm only gonna be an armchair QB so it's not really that sensible to say that. i just do what i can.

Re: Time to bench Brunell?
 

!!!

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, the easy, lazy answer is to heap all the blame on Brunell. That said though, I'm going to say bench him. Because really the Brunell excuse is an old one, and I think it's time we usher in the Blame Campbell for everything era. Even when it's not his fault, it's time to start blaming Campbell.

Seriously though, someone said at least give Brunell the first half of the Texans game. That makes sense to me.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

I'll give him the first half, but I don't want to see him just exploiting the inept Texans defense. I want to see him make throws that, not even a great, but GOOD NFL QB should make. I want to see some deep throws with touch, see some rocket passes in coverage. While the Texans offense is coming together, their defense hardly qualifies as a college team, and the Redskins "should" have no problems beating them. For Brunell to regain my confidence, he'll need to do better than just manage the game and just play not to lose.

Sure, he can do that low-risk stuff against the Texans, but against bigger and better opponents, he's going to have to learn to make some plays himself.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

I say give him the whole game, let him prove himself against a lesser opponent. If he still cannot get it done, then we'll know for sure what needs to be done. But then again, even if the Skins do win, do we give him credit for having a satsfactory performance against a much lesser opponent?

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

our o-line sucks to high hell right now. I know dallas has a good d-line but our o-line is supposed to be the shit. I can't think of anything worse than putting campbell in with this o-line playing the way it is and making a p ramsey part two, with campbell being scared of his own shadow. Then again it is the texans so the o-line should be OK. But THEN AGAIN, it is the texans and i think brunell can win it so why would we put campbell in who will be a hit or miss when the game seems to be an easier one that brunell can win himself.

I said give him a few more weeks. I do not want to put him in this week becasue brunell can win it. I can sorta agree with those that said one more week because if he really sucks this week then he doesn't deserve to be a QB. I can't say to keep him in indefinately because why does a suck ass player deserve the job over campbell?

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

Good point from Steve Czaban (SportsTalk 980) -- why leave Brunell in for the last drive before the end of the game? He took two sacks on a completely meaningless drive, adding to needless wear and tear on a guy who you say has to carry the team for the next 14 games.

Should have let Campbell finish out the game. Allow him to attempt that first pass in the NFL which is the reason everyone says he can't play.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

I say you let MB finish what he started, and that wasn't much.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

I disagree with the idea of starting Brunell against the Texans. I think by doing so we are delaying the inevitable. He's going to get benched sooner or later, that's a given.

No need to see Brunell scrape by or even have a good game against the Texans and convince Gibbs that we're out of the woods.
Why start Cambell against a strong defense when we can start him against the Texans this week.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[quote=Beemnseven;216834]Good point from Steve Czaban (SportsTalk 980) -- why leave Brunell in for the last drive before the end of the game? He took two sacks on a completely meaningless drive, adding to needless wear and tear on a guy who you say has to carry the team for the next 14 games.

Should have let Campbell finish out the game. Allow him to attempt that first pass in the NFL which is the reason everyone says he can't play.[/quote] Joe Gibbs is a stubborn mule!!! He's starting to remind me of George Bush, at least when it comes to the war in Iraq!!

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

I seem to agree with the fact that this is not our brand of football. The QB needs more than a RB picking up one blocker. This is terrible, maybe our oline was so pumped up this offseason by NFL Siriuis, the radio, bla bla. We were all douped by the different blocking schemes we had last year having cooley, sellers, and sometimes portis all helping the oline, and making them look better than they were. We dont have the OLINE that Saunders had in KC, so when in Saunders giong to change the offense to fit our team. I'm pissed and I can't blame it all on Brunell but I have to put some blame on him. He looked bad low throws, inaccurate throws, not throwning the ball down the field. Where is Santanna Moss? Why is Cooley look so uncomfortable? I'll say it again.. Why did Gibbs give up on his offense? It was starting to work last year. It worked before and we won three bowls. F@#K THIS!!!

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

The problem is that the Texans are exactly the team that may enable Mark Brunell to be somewhat average, which, in Joe Gibbs' mind, will solidify him at quarterback for another 6 to 8 games.

I've been reduced to rooting for insanely inept quarterbacking from Brunell so that the cries for Campbell get louder.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS;216819]I've said it before, and I'll say it again, the easy, lazy answer is to heap all the blame on Brunell. That said though, I'm going to say bench him. Because really the Brunell excuse is an old one, and I think it's time we usher in the Blame Campbell for everything era. Even when it's not his fault, it's time to start blaming Campbell.

Seriously though, someone said at least give Brunell the first half of the Texans game. That makes sense to me.[/QUOTE]
Maybe we should Blame Canada!

[IMG]http://files.xboxic.com/general/blame-canada.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Brunell Solely Responsible for Loss?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;216625]No, he's not the only reason, far from it right now.

We've played like shit in all phases of the game.[/QUOTE]



We are playing so poorly right now it's difficult to pinpoint any one phase and say "this is the problem". It's across the board, but unfortunately in football (espically where offense is concerned) it's the QB who shares both the credit and the blame. Until Brunell turn's in some better performances, he'll continue to share the blame for all that's wrong with the offense. Presonally I look for more out of the position than Brunell has exhibited going back to the end of last season. While it's not all on Brunell, he is the leader of this offense and it's only justified we look for more from him.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

Up until kick off last night, I was pretty public in defending #8.

Based on the performance against Minny, I didn't think the bench Brunnell crowd had much credibility.

Now, in the COMPLETE CONTEXT OF BOTH GAMES, I'm coming down on the other side. We need to bring in JC now.

JC can't possibly do worse than what we've seen from #8.

The Cowboys are not a good team. In some ways, it may be better that we lost. It is easier to learn from mistakes and make changes after a major loss than a win.

And oh btw, CowboyKiller, please leave the politics and death out of this discussion.

I want to say this firmly and with as little anger as possible.

Enough people on this board have been touched directly and given a great deal to their country in the war. It isn't some abstract analogy for many. Such a comparison is most highly disrespectful and is an amazing display of ignorance. It trivializes something that is probably just another story on the evening news to you.

Having differing views on the war are an American right. But please show some respect and have some sympathy for those who serve and sacrafice -- especially those who give the most -- the families.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[quote=Beemnseven;216861]The problem is that the Texans are exactly the team that may enable Mark Brunell to be somewhat average, which, in Joe Gibbs' mind, will solidify him at quarterback for another 6 to 8 games.

I've been reduced to rooting for insanely inept quarterbacking from Brunell so that the cries for Campbell get louder.[/quote]

You nailed. This is why it's the perfect game to start JC, in my humble opinion. If Brunell comes out of this shining, we'll convince ourselves that we're turning the corner only to have Brunell come back and have another mediocre performance.

Re: Brunell Solely Responsible for Loss?
 

since qb plays a big role on the field for the offense, i'd say that brunell shares a lot of the blame. And since the defense isn't strong enough to cover up the offensive ineptness this year, it is more visible (o ineptness) and brunell's lack of playmaking skills is more visible.

does brunell not trust the wideouts to fight for the ball when it is thrown their way for a long pass ? does he seem too content with a 3 and out series ?

Either way, he is playing way too safe when given the opportunity. You have to risk something to gain something.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

give brunell one game with a healthy portis and see what happens, if he still sucks then bench him

Re: Brunell Solely Responsible for Loss?
 

We haven't won a single game since we let Ramsey, LaVar, and Jacobs go...that's all I'm sayin'.

Re: Brunell Solely Responsible for Loss?
 

Let's forgive this loss. Did anyone honestly believe we could beat Dallas without Portis playing? Did you think Ladell "I'll go down at the slightest trip" Betts was going to run riot over the Cowboy defense?

If Brunell stinks it up against Houston like he did in the Cleveland game of 2004, then there is a legitimate case to bench him.

I see no reason to give up on the season until about week 7, if at which point we're 2-5 or worse, then its over.