Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

Brunell Cannot Throw The Ball More Than 10 Yards!!! Dallas Will Destroy Us!!

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;233119]What 6th rated offense?[/quote]
[url=http://www.footballoutsiders.com/2006/10/17/ramblings/dvoa-rankings/4409/]FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Football analysis and NFL stats for the Moneyball era - Authors of Pro Football Prospectus 2006 and 2005[/url]

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

[quote=That Guy;233046]saunders is just covering his @$$. he's already implied he can be vetoed, that brunell isn't any good, that campbell is stupid, that he can't run his offense, the whole portis taking himself out of games things (only AFTER the 3rd down wasn't converted, not before), said that the playbook wasn't being used (AFTER people complained in preseason), and complained that he couldn't see the players in preseason (AFTER they fell flat in week 1), and complained that the talent isn't there.

if you need an excuse, he's the guy to ask.[/quote]

I completely agree!
Saunders has acted like an arrogant fool ever since the preseason. He refused to run the plays in preseason so he wouldn't show too much, but what could have been stupider than that considering how long it's taken for the system to develop. Ooops.
Then anything that goes wrong he just says that "the system works" and passes the blame to the players.
He's the Offensive coordinator- it's his job to make the system work with the players he has, not just pout like a little bitch that he doesn't have Trent Green and hall of fame offensive linemen.
I wasn't a fan of his KC offense anyway- they could never win when it mattered (NO playoff wins in 5 years), but his arrogance that it can't possibly be his fault is unacceptable - it's his job to adapt. These are the players he has. I mean if he's only a good offensive coordinator with great players, then he's not a good offensive coordinator.

Does anyone know if he actually called the plays in KC (I know he didn't in St. Louis), but did he call them in KC? Or did Vermeil?
Maybe he's just not a good playcaller? Especially, maybe he's not good at making halftime adjustments to his playcalling - something Gibbs always excelled at.

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

[quote=GTripp0012;233150][URL="http://www.footballoutsiders.com/2006/10/17/ramblings/dvoa-rankings/4409/"]FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Football analysis and NFL stats for the Moneyball era - Authors of Pro Football Prospectus 2006 and 2005[/URL][/quote]

the garbage time still inflates those stats.

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

[quote=joekes;233165]I completely agree!
Saunders has acted like an arrogant fool ever since the preseason. He refused to run the plays in preseason so he wouldn't show too much, but what could have been stupider than that considering how long it's taken for the system to develop. Ooops.
Then anything that goes wrong he just says that "the system works" and passes the blame to the players.
He's the Offensive coordinator- it's his job to make the system work with the players he has, not just pout like a little bitch that he doesn't have Trent Green and hall of fame offensive linemen.
I wasn't a fan of his KC offense anyway- they could never win when it mattered (NO playoff wins in 5 years), but his arrogance that it can't possibly be his fault is unacceptable - it's his job to adapt. These are the players he has. I mean if he's only a good offensive coordinator with great players, then he's not a good offensive coordinator.

Does anyone know if he actually called the plays in KC (I know he didn't in St. Louis), but did he call them in KC? Or did Vermeil?
Maybe he's just not a good playcaller? Especially, maybe he's not good at making halftime adjustments to his playcalling - something Gibbs always excelled at.[/quote]

i believe he called plays in KC. it's easier with HoF OL and good QBs though.

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

To put some perspective on things, our offense scored a TOTAL of 37 points against the Giants, Cowboys, Colts, and Vikings. That's about 9 points per game. ANYONE who thinks that an offense that scores 9 points per game is good is on some ridiculously good crack.

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;233190]To put some perspective on things, our offense scored a TOTAL of 37 points against the Giants, Cowboys, Colts, and Vikings. That's about 9 points per game. ANYONE who thinks that an offense that scores 9 points per game is good is on some ridiculously good crack.[/quote]It's pretty shitty. But that doesn't mean the offense isn't efficient. The inablity to score points is a seperate problem. Either the kickers aren't making kicks (they've been inconsistent), we aren't getting TDs in the red zone (i don't have the stats on this), we consistently have terrible field position (again, don't know), or you have a ridiculously low TOP because the defense can never get off the field on third down (bingo!).

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

Good point re: TOP GTripp. I just think our team's record is a collaborative effort between the defense and the offense.

SOME of the blame for the offense's inability to score points has to be laid at Brunell's feet. He is, after all, the quarterback.

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;233196]Good point re: TOP GTripp. I just think our team's record is a collaborative effort between the defense and the offense.

SOME of the blame for the offense's inability to score points has to be laid at Brunell's feet. He is, after all, the quarterback.[/quote]My goal is not to absolve him of all blame. The great ones have the ability to rise to the next level, and make sure the team wins. At 2-5, Brunell has not won the games. I guess we've learned that Brunell is not great. But considering the conditions that he plays in, the guy, IMO, has played admiribly. I would not expect such production from a guy who is on the hot seat. He's good, not great.

It is beyond obvious to me that he gives this team it's best chance to win and that's all I'm saying. At the point where winning now becomes secondary to winning in the future, he will probably glady relinquish the job upon Gibbs request. He's a classy guy. We are still a loss within the division away from that point.

And thats the final word on Brunell from me...for today at least.

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

anyone want to explain to me how the 'efficiency' of consistently connecting on the 5yd completion on 3rd and 9, is better than potentially making a 50yd bomb?

even an interception 50yds down the field would be better than a surefire 4th and 4. no chance of scoring on a punt, and its almost the same field position!

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

Dog ate his playbook.

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

I think we're forgetting that we tend to abandon the run fairly quickly... i think i remember a stat during the first half where the pass-run ratio was like 14 to 8 at one point (I may be off a little bit).

We've played two of the worst run defenses the past two weeks and yet, we're passing all the time. OK, Portis was stuffed his first 6 carries for like 1 yard- but even bad rush defenses can start a game on fire. You have to keep plugging away at it, and in the Skins' offense that means b/t the tackles instead of these wide tosses.

Our O-line shines in run blocking and the coordinator just has to keep faith in the line until Portis starts getting those 4, 5, 6 yard clips. This also helps with the TOP. Abandoning the run early with our offense sets up for limited pass plays with the QB we have.

I'm far from Brunell's biggest fan... in fact, I want to see Campbell in there just to spark something. But MB has shown the ability to throw the long ball this season when it's there. I'm also still a Saunders supporter... but I think his playcalling has been suspect the past few weeks, considering the rush defenses played.

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

[QUOTE=Southpaw;233033]If you've heard any of Saunders' comments, he's constantly talking about limiting his play calling. He doesn't directly say that Brunell can't handle it, but he says things like "Mark is good at shorter passes and quick drops" i.e. he can't throw deep. I'm positive that a lot of it is play calling, but it's directly related to Brunell's ability. I don't think Saunders would refrain from calling long passes with Campbell in the lineup.[/QUOTE]

What's interesting though is if you look at the Chiefs from last year Green didn't have that many deep completions really. What I don't know is how many deep attempts he had

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

We have no identity on offense right now, that's been our main problem all year. If we have any hope of salvaging the season, finding an identity is the key.

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;233242]We have no identity on offense right now, that's been our main problem all year. If we have any hope of salvaging the season, finding an identity is the key.[/QUOTE]

That's a very good point. However, I would contend that they do have an identity and it's that of an inconsistent football team. Be it running or throwing, they do niether consistently. It's getting a little late in the season to try to establish one or the other as the crux of the offense. Everyone knows they're an inside running team. Wear em down on the inside then try to break em on the edges. And throw deep or at least intermediate then. I think Saunders is trying to put his stamp on the team, but he needs to adjust to Portis.

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

One of the things Brunell brings to the table is that he knows how to change a play at the line of scrimmage (based on the defensive set.) I have read that Saunders' system practically eliminates this possibility. Peyton was changing plays all night. Unfortunately, when Brunell sees that the defensive set is going to scr*w the play, he can't do anything to fix it (except for calling a time-out.) I think this greatly hinders the Redskins offense.

Also, a couple of games ago he was furious because the plays weren't coming in fast enough. How much of the season has this been going on. And in spite of all the short dump-offs, at the end of the first half he had 10 hurries in 15 attempts (with 10 completions.) Many on this board feel that Saunders calls few long passes because Brunell has a "noodle" arm. I wonder if he is more reticent because he knows the line can't protect him that long without holding. (Remember the beginning of the season? Weren't we on pace to set a new record for number of penalties, with offensive holding leading the way?)

I have a lot of respect for Brunell after 2004. Not for how he passed. (That was as painful to watch as I can remember.) But because he was injured (which he shared with the coaching staff), but never gave it as excuse for his poor performance in public.

I have seen Brunell explode once: when (as I mentioned before) the plays were coming in late this year. I think Gibbs has him talk because he won't badmouth anybody else. (And don't tell me there is no-one else to badmouth.) In general, the reaction of the people who talk to the press from the Redskins organization reminds me of a cartoon I saw in the foreign service journal. There were seven people holding down a furious man in a room. The room's only door was open a crack, and the person just inside the door was informing the one on the outside that "The ambassador has no comment at this time."

I think the reason you don't see explosions out of the Redskins organization is because public "disturbances" usually end up a negative. (Remember the Giants before their game with us?)

Do I feel Brunell is a great QB? No. He is a good solid QB. He will not lose games for you. Gibbs got him since he felt the rest of the team would hold up its end. It doesn't seem to be working out that way. Scoring: 20 pts/game. Defense: 26 pts/game.
Two years ago, 21 pts/game would have given them a record of 13-2-1.
I think the problems hang more on the D.

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;233119]What 6th rated offense?[/quote]



You didn't know?

Were sixth in the NFC East!!!!

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;233190]To put some perspective on things, our offense scored a TOTAL of 37 points against the Giants, Cowboys, Colts, and Vikings. That's about 9 points per game. ANYONE who thinks that an offense that scores 9 points per game is good is on some ridiculously good crack.[/QUOTE]

Against the NFC East, we've been outscored 46-13, and have not scored an offensive touchdown.

How's that for efficiency?

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

[quote=drew54;233210]Dog ate his playbook.[/quote]

Or maybe Dog the Bounty Hunter arrested his playbook brah!

[url=http://youtube.com/watch?v=00vwkE40s0Y&mode=related&search=]YouTube - South Park Dawg the Hallway Monitor 2[/url]

Go with Christ!

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

As much as people ripped our offense last year for being too simple, it sure seems like we had much more of an identity than what we have this year. We used our strengths! I am thinking if we had just added the two WRs and kept the same exact offense from a year ago...we would've been okay....offensively at least...

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven;233273]Against the NFC East, we've been outscored 46-13, and have not scored an offensive touchdown.[/QUOTE]

That sums everything up. Even if our offense scored 25 points and racked up 450 yards a game, our defense would let the opponents beat us. Conversely, even if our defense held opponents to 15 points per game, we'd still lose because our offense can't score.

Does anyone else need any evidence of how BOTH units are to blame for our woes?

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

[quote=mike340;233252]One of the things Brunell brings to the table is that he knows how to change a play at the line of scrimmage (based on the defensive set.) I have read that Saunders' system practically eliminates this possibility. Peyton was changing plays all night. Unfortunately, when Brunell sees that the defensive set is going to scr*w the play, he can't do anything to fix it (except for calling a time-out.) I think this greatly hinders the Redskins offense.

Also, a couple of games ago he was furious because the plays weren't coming in fast enough. How much of the season has this been going on. And in spite of all the short dump-offs, at the end of the first half he had 10 hurries in 15 attempts (with 10 completions.) Many on this board feel that Saunders calls few long passes because Brunell has a "noodle" arm. I wonder if he is more reticent because he knows the line can't protect him that long without holding. (Remember the beginning of the season? Weren't we on pace to set a new record for number of penalties, with offensive holding leading the way?)

I have a lot of respect for Brunell after 2004. Not for how he passed. (That was as painful to watch as I can remember.) But because he was injured (which he shared with the coaching staff), but never gave it as excuse for his poor performance in public.

I have seen Brunell explode once: when (as I mentioned before) the plays were coming in late this year. I think Gibbs has him talk because he won't badmouth anybody else. (And don't tell me there is no-one else to badmouth.) In general, the reaction of the people who talk to the press from the Redskins organization reminds me of a cartoon I saw in the foreign service journal. There were seven people holding down a furious man in a room. The room's only door was open a crack, and the person just inside the door was informing the one on the outside that "The ambassador has no comment at this time."

I think the reason you don't see explosions out of the Redskins organization is because public "disturbances" usually end up a negative. (Remember the Giants before their game with us?)

Do I feel Brunell is a great QB? No. He is a good solid QB. He will not lose games for you. Gibbs got him since he felt the rest of the team would hold up its end. It doesn't seem to be working out that way. Scoring: 20 pts/game. Defense: 26 pts/game.
Two years ago, 21 pts/game would have given them a record of 13-2-1.
I think the problems hang more on the D.[/quote]Well said. I believe one of the problems, that goes along with Matty's identity point, is that last year, Gibbs built his offense around Brunell's strength. You saw a lot more touch passes last year that took advantage of Brunell's unique strengths as a passer. This season, Brunell is being used in a more generic system. It's an OK fit, but not as good as last year. He's adapted about as well as one could have expected.

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

Maybe it was mistake to promote Bill Lazor to QB coach. Make Todd Collins the QB coach!

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

I haven't seen us run a true no-huddle, or even get in a hurry calling plays yet.

Wasn't that one of the things that was so touted about Saunders offenses was the pace of the game. Guys ran to the huddle if there was one and ran to the line and went in motion and ran their routes and ran and ran and ran...no audibles just effective options playing off of each other one after another confusing defenses???

(I can do it in madden, btw... its pretty cool, I can plan an entire series and call the plays in anticipation of my opponent and I'm pretty good at it... I got it from reading about Saunder's offense.)

The KC offense and the greatest show on turf was alot faster paced than what we're seeing. I wonder why that is...

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

[quote=canthetuna;233384]I haven't seen us run a true no-huddle, or even get in a hurry calling plays yet.

Wasn't that one of the things that was so touted about Saunders offenses was the pace of the game. Guys ran to the huddle if there was one and ran to the line and went in motion and ran their routes and ran and ran and ran...no audibles just effective options playing off of each other one after another confusing defenses???

(I can do it in madden, btw... its pretty cool, I can plan an entire series and call the plays in anticipation of my opponent and I'm pretty good at it... I got it from reading about Saunder's offense.)

The KC offense and the greatest show on turf was alot faster paced than what we're seeing. I wonder why that is...[/quote]

the quick huddle and shifting were ditching immediately after not working in week 1 or 2. not sure if gibbs pulled rank for that or not. not sure why we killed the shotgun either. not sure why there hasn't been a single addjustment to our offense or playcalling since jacksonville. someone's gotta step up and fix this thing though. on offense they're underperforming. on defense it's more injuries/depth related. neither is worth talking about right now :(.

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

Bru-Tell

He is the reason why are offense blows goat.... he had 106 passer rating
Big fucking deal! He threw like 5 yd dump offs to betts all day. The guy threw high how many times i cant remember, he gave moss a suicide pass and he is now so fuckin' slow he throw the ball away everytime he has to move. He cant throw over 15 yds this team is going to shit! Gibbs is pulling another '05 where he kept that fuckin' hack in too long and Ramsey came in 5 games left and was 3-2....

WE WANT CAMPBELL!

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

[size=7]mark Brunell Sucks!!!!![/size]
[size=7][/size]
[size=7]enough Said!!!![/size]

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

What Kind Of A Name Is [size=7]brunell[/size][size=2] It Comes From The Word ............[/size][size=7]garbage!!![/size]

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

421 you're adding nothing to the site. Consider this your first official warning

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

i am just stating the obvious it is brunell's fault he's old and washed up!! why did we keep him, just because someone disagree's with you you should not hold it against that person!! If your a brunell lover undertand this[SIZE=4] HE WILL NEVER WIN THE REDSKINS A SUPERBOWL[/SIZE]

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

[QUOTE=0421kidwell;233949]i am just stating the obvious it is brunell's fault he's old and washed up!! why did we keep him, just because someone disagree's with you you should not hold it against that person!! If your a brunell lover undertand this[SIZE=4] HE WILL NEVER WIN THE REDSKINS A SUPERBOWL[/SIZE][/QUOTE]

First quit with the bold and bigger font. Second, if all you want to keep saying in every post is Brunell sucks, he's garbage I'm sure even those that agree with you would agree with me that you add nothing at all by repeating it in every thread

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

[quote=0421kidwell;233949]i am just stating the obvious it is brunell's fault he's old and washed up!! why did we keep him, just because someone disagree's with you you should not hold it against that person!! If your a brunell lover undertand this[SIZE=4] HE WILL NEVER WIN THE REDSKINS A SUPERBOWL[/SIZE][/quote]This is probably true. However this sentence could be rephrased less biasedly as, "The Washington Redskins will never win the super bowl during the span of Mark Brunell's career." Equally true, and doesn't blame MB for something he has little control over.

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

What is this English class?Ok I will break down Brunell,
A: He can't throw deep
B: He's old
C: HE intimidates nobody noteven the raiders
D: Saunders cant call deep plays because Mark cannot throw the ball deep to anybody
E: No speed
F: He's lost the "it" factor?
G: Besides Elway name me one player after the age of 37 that has won a suprbowl at QB at that age? Also tell me if that player is in the hall of fame or not?
H: How many people boo mark constantely at the home games?
I: OLD QB'S CAN'T WIN SUPERBOWL'S unless they are [SIZE=3]John Elway[/SIZE]

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

[quote=0421kidwell;233956]What is this English class?Ok I will break down Brunell,
A: He can't throw deep
B: He's old
C: HE intimidates nobody noteven the raiders
D: Saunders cant call deep plays because Mark cannot throw the ball deep to anybody
E: No speed
F: He's lost the "it" factor?
G: Besides Elway name me one player after the age of 37 that has won a suprbowl at QB at that age? Also tell me if that player is in the hall of fame or not?
H: How many people boo mark constantely at the home games?
I: OLD QB'S CAN'T WIN SUPERBOWL'S unless they are [SIZE=3]John Elway[/SIZE][/quote]Elway was the greatest ever to play, IMO. Brunell was never asked to do what John Elway did. But I'll take your quiz.

A. Sure he could and he does at times.
B. Good Point.
C. You can't intimidate the Raiders. You beat the Raiders while they attempt to intimidate you.
D. Without getting into how the nature of playcalling disallows a coach to "call a deep play", you've already made this point in A.
E. I'd say he moves quite well for a 37 year old. If your point is that he's old, good work.
F. I don't think so. I believe in the "it" factor, or QB intangibles. I don't think you EVER lose it, but its a subjective topic, so you can't prove that.
G. Well, Elway was the oldest player ever to win a SB at age 37, so you really have me there! But 4 years ago Rich Gannon played in the Super Bowl at age 37, and was the league MVP that year. So if you are saying old QBs can't play, that's quite easily disprovable.
H. Anyone who is frusterated at the team.
I. Well, Elway was the oldest player ever to win a SB at age 37, so you really have me there! But 4 years ago Rich Gannon played in the Super Bowl at age 37, and was the league MVP that year. So if you are saying old QBs can't play, that's quite easily disprovable.

Welcome to the boards.

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

TO reply to GTRIPP I am biased:: the future is now!!! The cowboys will start romo it's time to start jason or todd

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

Why do people support this bum? Do you want him in anymore GTRIPP? Or do you want a fresh body?? Should we make a run at Quinn?

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

[quote=0421kidwell;233963]TO reply to GTRIPP I am biased:: the future is now!!! The cowboys will start romo it's time to start jason or todd[/quote]Jason Campbell absolutely is the future. I think we should take advantage of Tony Romo starting in Dallas, start Brunell, give Romo a warm Redskins 'Welcome to the NFL', beat their ass, and try to get something rolling. Not a moment too soon.

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

[quote=0421kidwell;233964]Why do people support this bum? Do you want him in anymore GTRIPP? Or do you want a fresh body?? Should we make a run at Quinn?[/quote]Follow my posts in the bigger Brunell threads. I've more than defended my position. Yes, I want him in because I want to beat the Dallas Cowboys. Not just beat them. Make a statement. I don't want to watch the Cowboys introduce Campbell to the NFL. I want to watch Tony Romo as our defense rises from the dead and starts beating the crap out of the Dallas OLine. I want our offense to take that momentum and put up 20+ points. Thats what I want to see!

*evil cackle*

Campbell's time can wait.

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

Good Point!! Maybe Your Right But Brunell Still Blows

Re: It's not Brunell's fault!
 

[quote=0421kidwell;233976]Good Point!! Maybe Your Right But Brunell Still Blows[/quote]Gracias, I think?