Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;245380]Nah, you are hardly being a jerk.

All your points are fair. It's funny cause this is exactly what everyone else was sounding like to me all these weeks. They pretty much were waiting for Brunell to fail. Took awhile, but he did in fact crap out vs. Phili. Looks like the rolls have changed now.[/QUOTE]

First, thanks for not taking my posts the wrong way. You know that I respect your opinion (even if I strongly disagree with it) and consider you a valued member of the site.

Second, I agree 100% that, on a certain level, many people on this site wanted to see Brunell fail miserably. I was never one of them. When I thought that Brunell played poorly, I said so and when I thought Brunell played well, I said so. We just differ as to whether Brunell's [U]overall [/U]performance was any good.

Here's an example of a guy who loves Brunell so much that he is actually hoping the Redskins lose this Sunday. [URL="http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=180444"]http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=180444[/URL]

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;245382]I definately don't expect to see Campbell light up opposing defenses. My guess is that he struggles for the first 5 games or so and starts to "come on" at the very end of the season.

I didn't mean to question GTripp's fandom. I know that GTripp loves the team and always wants to see them win. I just think there will be a certain part of him that will enjoy seeing Campbell struggle.

As a recovering Ramseyfan, I know all about trying to see the good in a particular player, even when they are playing poorly. That said, when Brunell started playing well last season, I gave him props and didn't particularly mourn Ramsey's departure. I would just like to see GTripp do the same with Brunell; admit Brunell isn't even an average QB ([U]I'm not laying all or even most of the team's woes on Brunell[/U]), doesn't deserve to start, and wish his successor the best.[/quote]The thing about Patrick Ramsey is that by all accounts (statistical and objective observant) he was the average QB. Career 3.18 DPAR/G. Perfectly average. I sincerely believe we would have been a 9 or 10 win team with Ramsey in 2005. Brunell didn't win or lose us any games then either. It wasn't his style.

Brunell has been better over his career and significantly better each of the last two seasons. I would say theres no way that I could realistically say Brunell hasn't even been average. That would not only go against the evidence, but against my observations from watching him.

So if Brunell never plays another down in his career, there would be absoultely no reason for me to say something I believe (along with the evidence I have) to be blatently false to appease other people.

Although we had the same record in 2004 through 9 games that we do now, I hope people can realize what the differences are. In 2004, Brunell was too hurt to throw. He produced numbers so sub par to his career, that everyone (including me) thought it was over for him. That, along with the OLine and injuries were the reasons we lost. We had the no. 2 defense. This year we have the no. 30 defense and the same record through 9. Considering that defense is what wins games, there shouldn't be a serious arguement that goes against what the stats tell you, because there is no reason for it. We know why we are losing. It has nothing to do with the offense.

I was too young to remember the 3 championships. Gibbs [U][I][B]earned[/B][/I][/U] my trust when he made Brunell the starter and he played [U][B]well[/B][/U]. Since then, Brunell's level of play has not changed. The offense has. We have gotten conservative and mistakes have been made. Brunell is capable of doing anything he did in 2005. So if you refuse to blame the defense for anything, and you want to blame the offense for being conservative, I won't stop you, but there is ZERO evidence to prove that Brunell can't do one thing he could do in 2005.

As far as Campbell, write this one down, as soon as he gets [I][B]unjustly[/B][/I] attacked for something that isn't his fault, I will be the first one to his side.

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;245234]Campbell will likely struggle in all 7 of his starts this season. We won't move the ball at all before CP comes back. [B]It's gonna get real ugly, real fast.[/B][/QUOTE]

Excuse me? It's "gonna get" ugly? What do you think we've been watching?

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;245372]Those are known as the discrepencies between stats and reality. My explinations for them. "Observations" if you will.[/QUOTE]

yes, the eternal 'out' of statistical battles. prepare one for Campbell this season just in case.

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

[quote=Beemnseven;245392]Excuse me? It's "gonna get" ugly? What do you think we've been watching?[/quote]It is referring to the offense. We had a running game, a passing game, and no turnovers. Now we have no CP, no MB, and an inexpierenced QB.

Thus uglyness. On both sides of the ball. Like the Phili game, except vs a team thats not nearly as good.

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

[quote=illdefined;245395]yes, the eternal 'out' of statistical battles. prepare one for Campbell this season just in case.[/quote]Would there be any situation under which you'd admit that we would have been better off leaving Brunell in this game?

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;245396]It is referring to the offense. We had a running game, a passing game, and no turnovers. Now we have no CP, no MB, and an inexpierenced QB.

Thus uglyness. On both sides of the ball. Like the Phili game, except vs a team thats not nearly as good.[/QUOTE]

We had a passing game? The 22nd ranked passing game (13 of 16 in the NFC) that averaged 188 yards per game, and produced 8 TDs in 9 games and 1 TD in 4 NFC east games.

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;245399]We had a passing game? The 22nd ranked passing game (13 of 16 in the NFC) that averaged 188 yards per game, and produced 8 TDs in 9 games and 1 TD in 4 NFC east games.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, the stats also won't tell you that no team believed Brunell would ever make them pay for blitzing, because they knew the slightest amount of pressure got him really frazzled. Especially against Philly, NY, and Dallas, they could send someone extra in on nearly every play, and there was never going to be a threat of Brunell exploiting the secondary for it.

Also, did you notice how whenever the offense needed a big play, it was Randle El throwing it?

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven;245402]Also, did you notice how whenever the offense needed a big play, it was Randle El throwing it?[/QUOTE]

That little guy has got a cannon of an arm.

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;245397]Would there be any situation under which you'd admit that we would have been better off leaving Brunell in this game?[/QUOTE]

sure, if Campbell was hurt or we had last year's defense.

either way i can't stand your boy's (can't say his name) predicatbly conservative style letting the defense win games and i wouldn't want to see him play another season for us.

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

about frickin time,too little too late,thanks joe,at least you pulled the trigger now,I thought youd sink the ship at least another week with brunell
no matter how bad jc is the rest of the yr I'm not going to call him out,he deserves every chance to suck as bad as brunell,they need to go ahead and cut novak while theyre at it,try somebody else out for a couple games

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;245399]We had a passing game? The 22nd ranked passing game (13 of 16 in the NFC) that averaged 188 yards per game, and produced 8 TDs in 9 games and 1 TD in 4 NFC east games.[/quote]22nd by yards? Considering we throw less then anyone else, that doesn't mean much to me. Do it by Yards per Attempt. I can do it.

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;245406]22nd by yards? Considering we throw less then anyone else, that doesn't mean much to me. Do it by Yards per Attempt. I can do it.[/QUOTE]

Fine, forget yardage. How about scoring? All that matters is scoring and our offense was the unit that couldn't. In three away games against NFC East teams the Redskins scored a TOTAL of 9 points. Save the games against Jax and Hous, the offense averaged [B]12 points per game[/B]! If that's not bad, I don't know what is.

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

[quote=Grim21Reaper;245070]Scaled back offense? Are you guys out of your mind?

We were limited to 5-10 yard passes on one side of the field with #8.

Has anyone watched the first nine games this year?[/quote]i totally agree . if the kid looks like brunell i'm gonna jump off a f:censored: king cliff .jurgy , theismann ,doug williams ,rypien schroeder even.but dont look like brunell

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;245410]Fine, forget yardage. How about scoring? All that matters is scoring and our offense was the unit that couldn't. In three away games against NFC East teams the Redskins scored a TOTAL of 9 points. Save the games against Jax and Hous, the offense averaged [B]12 points per game[/B]! If that's not bad, I don't know what is.[/quote]Yeah, if you save the two best games, it's gonna be bad for pretty much anyone.

I really don't know why we fizzle in between the 40 and the 25 in opponents territory most of the time (costing us a shot at points). Must be Brunell's fault. That MUST be it. I don't know, so blame the QB.

It seems unrealistic to say that Brunell's play declines in that 15 yard span (where our unsucessful drives fizzle, we are really down on 3 + out). Since there is no good reason, would it be unreasonable to say that its just a matter of chance? Or is there a reason why we can't get drives into Field Goal range despite getting to the fringe all the time? Playcalling maybe, I'm not sure.

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

Al Saunders was interviewed today on comcast. you could definitely tell he was stoked about campbell starting, he was smiling and stuff and talking happily. he also said we will do different things now that jason is in...hmmmmmmmmmm

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;245406]22nd by yards? Considering we throw less then anyone else, that doesn't mean much to me. Do it by Yards per Attempt. I can do it.[/QUOTE]

let's see, if we pass less than anyone else, get any passing yards we do have from YAC, have 3 starting receivers (incl. Cooley) with less than 200yds, and our star running back was having a career low....yup must be a good offense.

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;245414]Yeah, if you save the two best games, it's gonna be bad for pretty much anyone.

I really don't know why we fizzle in between the 40 and the 25 in opponents territory most of the time (costing us a shot at points). Must be Brunell's fault. That MUST be it. I don't know, so blame the QB.[/QUOTE]

[I]Okay, try to name 1 other good QB who has led an offense that has averaged 12 points in 7 of 9 games (taking away his two best games).[/I]

Besides those games against Jax, Dallas II, and Houston, when do you think Brunell played well? When do you think he didn't play well?

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

[quote=illdefined;245418]let's see, if we pass less than anyone else, get any passing yards we do have from YAC, have 3 starting receivers (incl. Cooley) with less than 200yds, and our star running back was having a career low....yup must be a good offense.[/quote]Well since the efficiency ratings say it is, I have to dig deeper. Someone has to be right...the statistical rankings or illdefined.

Our star RB is injured. Our WRs have less than 200 yards...i dont know maybe because we pass less than anyone else. And we get yards after the catch? How HORRIBLE! Bench Brunell...oh wait.

Haven't even seen the efficiency ratings (certainly will take a hit after Sunday), but I already know who or what to believe.

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;245422]Well since the efficiency ratings say it is, I have to dig deeper. Someone has to be right...the statistical rankings or illdefined.[/QUOTE]

Someone has to be right, the entire world (including Gibbs et al) or GTripp.

Sorry, I couldn't resist. But do you honestly believe that every ex-football player, coach, analyst, and fan is wrong about Brunell and is unfairly blaming him? I hate to cite football "experts" as support for my argument, but when every single one has called for Brunell's benching I must.

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;245420][I]Okay, try to name 1 other good QB who has led an offense that has averaged 12 points in 7 of 9 games (taking away his two best games).[/I]

Besides those games against Jax, Dallas II, and Houston, when do you think Brunell played well? When do you think he didn't play well?[/quote]Jake Delhomme. Jake Plummer. Chad Pennington, maybe?

Indy and Minnesota he did pretty well. New York, I'd give him an N/A since he never had the football. Tennessee he was brilliant in the first half and horrible in the 2nd.

Dallas I, he was bad and Philadelphia, bad. Both those games were road games w/o Portis. Games he would have needed to be perfect to win. Was far less than perfect, yeah, but it happens from time to time.

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

Really, Saunders was stoked? I wonder if he had alot of imput in the decision... Probably hoping someone will save his career!

I'm nervous for him. I desparately want him to do well, but its hard to imagine. I think because we havent had a QB that has done well in a long long time. Brunell has done allright, but he has been inconsistant.

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;245422]Well since the efficiency ratings say it is, I have to dig deeper. Someone has to be right...the statistical rankings or illdefined.

Our star RB is injured. Our WRs have less than 200 yards...i dont know maybe because we pass less than anyone else. And we get yards after the catch? How HORRIBLE! Bench Brunell...oh wait.

Haven't even seen the efficiency ratings (certainly will take a hit after Sunday), but I already know who or what to believe.[/QUOTE]

if everyone was getting YAC, Lloyd, Randle El and Cooley wouldn't be miserable with less than 200 yards.

here's an eye-opening experiment, take out Betts' YAC from your efficiency ratings and see whats left. HE'S the one you really should be jocking, not your boy.

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

[quote=GTripp0012;245425]Jake Delhomme. Jake Plummer. Chad Pennington, maybe?

Indy and Minnesota he did pretty well. New York, I'd give him an N/A since he never had the football. Tennessee he was brilliant in the first half and horrible in the 2nd.

Dallas I, he was bad and Philadelphia, bad. Both those games were road games w/o Portis. Games he would have needed to be perfect to win. Was far less than perfect, yeah, but it happens from time to time.[/quote]


I think its over, there dude...


I'd like to thank this opportunity to thank Mark Brunell (aka Gtripp0012) for his hard work and for fighting his guts out for us.

I appreciate the dramatic dallas win last year, as that is what I will always remember you for... and in a couple of short years I will stop talking about how you only watch 4 things when you have the ball (pass rush, santana, dumpoff valve, stands) in that order everytime, and at that point you will be that short guy that beat dallas by getting the ball to santana moss twice in 5 minutes....

Thanks...

me

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

[QUOTE=canthetuna;245426]Really, Saunders was stoked? I wonder if he had alot of imput in the decision... Probably hoping someone will save his career!

I'm nervous for him. I desparately want him to do well, but its hard to imagine. I think because we havent had a QB that has done well in a long long time. Brunell has done allright, but he has been inconsistant.[/QUOTE]

yeah he seemed very happy. he said the whole coaching staff made the decision. he also said this was on a week-by-week basis if campbell would keep starting. what i liked to hear was the offense would change some with campbell in. hopefully more downfield passing

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;245425]Jake Delhomme. Jake Plummer. Chad Pennington, maybe?

Indy and Minnesota he did pretty well. New York, I'd give him an N/A since he never had the football. Tennessee he was brilliant in the first half and horrible in the 2nd.

Dallas I, he was bad and Philadelphia, bad. Both those games were road games w/o Portis. Games he would have needed to be perfect to win. Was far less than perfect, yeah, but it happens from time to time.[/QUOTE]

1st - Neither Delhomme nor Pennington have averaged 12 points per game (taking away their 2 best games).

2nd - I said to name me a[B] good [/B]QB who's averaged less than 12 points per game. Jake Plummer has been playing horribly this year. Are you are seriously saying that Plummer has been playing like a good QB?

3rd - You admit that Brunell played poorly against Dallas I and Philly. So you actually think he played well against the Giants? What about against the Titans, Vikings, and Colts?

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

[quote=illdefined;245427]if everyone was getting YAC, Lloyd, Randle El and Cooley wouldn't be miserable with less than 200 yards.

here's an eye-opening experiment, take out Betts' YAC from your efficiency ratings and see whats left. HE'S the one you really should be jocking, not your boy.[/quote]First of all they aren't my ratings. I don't make em up. Secondly, what are you saying? That because the opponent leaves RBs open and we exploit it...we suck?

Randle El and Lloyd have been worse than replacement this season (see earlier post, this thread) Cooley is having the worst season of his career, although he's picking it up of late.

And those stats I give attempt to eliminate the Brunell factor. So that isn't the issue. This arguement that Brunell has great weapons is off the mark. He has Moss (8+ DPAR/G). Period.

Here's a shocker, Moss is good. Betts is having a good year. TELL THE PEOPLES!!!

The one consistent factor keeping the offensive efficiency ratings up was Brunell, and he's gone so look for them to drop hard.

I could take out [I][B]all[/B][/I] the good plays and leave the bad if I wanted to, but that wouldn't tell me anything. What are you trying to say?

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

Also, I've got to ask again, do you honestly believe that every ex-football player, coach, analyst, and fan is wrong about Brunell and is unfairly blaming him? I hate to cite football "experts" as support for my argument, but when every single one has called for Brunell's benching I must. Is everyone else so very wrong and you are right?

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

i think some of us have forgot what a "good" starting qb is. its someone who scares the defense, someone who has the ability to stretch the field on a consistant basis, and neither of those is brunell. ken harvey said if he were still playing he would love to play against brunell beause he doesnt scare opposing defenses at all. brunell is an average qb, who could get the job done on a team like baltimore where the offense doesnt need to be awesome to win games because of the defense. but the fact is, our defense isnt good enough to just get by with "mistake free football". brunell plays a low risk, low reward game, and it doesnt help this team anymore

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;245431]First of all they aren't my ratings. I don't make em up. Secondly, what are you saying? That because the opponent leaves RBs open and we exploit it[B]...we suck?[/B][/QUOTE]

Yeah, that's the general idea. Betts was the leading receiver in terms of receptions in the Indianapolis game, and this week at Philly. That says Brunell doesn't have the confidence to get the ball to his downfield receivers, that he panics at the slightest hint of a blitz, and purges the ball to his outlet receiver, (usually Betts) long before plays are allowed to develop. Not only that, opponents can blitz at will, knowing that Brunell will NEVER make them pay for it.

Now GTripp, I understand you're carrying the water for Brunell, going to obscure websites looking for convoluted statistics that somehow say Brunell is actually deserving of the league MVP in 2006 -- but what exactly is it you think the team should do with Brunell? In terms of leading the offense productively, effectively, and giving us scoring drives, what does the 3-6 record tell you that everybody else seems to miss?

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;245431]First of all they aren't my ratings. I don't make em up. Secondly, what are you saying? That because the opponent leaves RBs open and we exploit it...we suck?

Randle El and Lloyd have been worse than replacement this season (see earlier post, this thread) Cooley is having the worst season of his career, although he's picking it up of late.

And those stats I give attempt to eliminate the Brunell factor. So that isn't the issue. This arguement that Brunell has great weapons is off the mark. He has Moss (8+ DPAR/G). Period.

Here's a shocker, Moss is good. Betts is having a good year. TELL THE PEOPLES!!!

The one consistent factor keeping the offensive efficiency ratings up was Brunell, and he's gone so look for them to drop hard.

I could take out [I][B]all[/B][/I] the good plays and leave the bad if I wanted to, but that wouldn't tell me anything. What are you trying to say?[/QUOTE]

no you don't make those ratings up, but you're seriously the only one on this planet who gives a f*** about them. i bet even the people who run the website you get those stats from all agree it was time for Campbell. how the hell can you get rid of the QB factor on whether a receiver is doing well or not? how can they do well if they haven't been getting the ball?

Betts has been racking up garbage free yards given to him by umbrella defenses on hopeless 3rd and longs all season. i'm serious, you should see how much of these ratings are based on Betts' 'production'. you'll be surprised on how much he's responsible for all the offensive 'success'. HE'S your real stat blimping hero.

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

[QUOTE=illdefined;245437]how the hell can you get rid of the QB factor on whether a receiver is doing well or not? [/QUOTE]

I have no friggin idea.

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;245260]According to [URL="http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb.php"]advanced statistics[/URL] Brunell is personally responsible for 36.6 points this season (4.1 DPAR/G) (above replacement, or a guy responsible for exactly 0, and yes you can be below replacement level). Until further proof, Campbell would fall at the replacement QB range (0 DPAR/G).[/QUOTE]

According to that site's DPAR rankings, Brunell is better than:

Tom Brady
Eli Manning
Carson Palmer
Rex Grossman
Chad Pennington
Tony Romo
Matt Hasselbeck
Michael Vick

There goes that site's credibility.

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;245440]According to that site's DPAR rankings, Brunell is better than:

Tom Brady
Eli Manning
Carson Palmer
Rex Grossman
Chad Pennington
Tony Romo
Matt Hasselbeck
Michael Vick

There goes that site's credibility.[/QUOTE]

course not, those guys don't have Ladell 'Breakout' Betts. thanks for the research.

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

from the WP:

"The Redskins have been unable to make plays over the middle of the field or test defenses deep -- areas Campbell said he hopes to excel in -- and receivers are languishing, with just eight passing touchdowns.

"I feel like I can help stretch the field with those downfield throws," Campbell said."

"I'm pretty sure there's some things they'll probably do different with me in there than the things they did with Mark, because we're two different kinds of quarterbacks," said Campbell"


have you ever heard any thing more beautiful in your life?

Re: Breaking News - JC to start Sunday
 

SHOCKING!!!!! i thought gibbs was gonna stay with brunell to the bitter end. i am excited to see JC play sunday.