re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

[quote=irish;525895]I guess me, my fan friends, and most media i read/hear who say he does lock on to receivers are as expert as you and yours who say he doesnt.[/quote]

Jim Zorn says it in a few press conferences. The first of which is on September 5th 2008 right after we played the Giants.

[url=http://www.redskins.com/do/videoGallery]Redskins TV[/url]

re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

I think JC locked on to the primary receiver at the beginning of the year and then started checking down way to fast later on. It could be from not having any time due to the o-line play or it could be from it being drilled into his head to checkdown. Either way, I would think it is something he can adjust. If not, then there is a problem. We'll see.

re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;525898]I dont get the disagreement that JC has a tendancy to lock onto receivers? It was mentioned in his profile prior to the 2005 NFL draft (although this is not uncommon in college QBs), its been mentioned in the media countless times as one of his tendancies, and its blatantly obvious when watching games on TV that he does it quite a bit. its not hard to see - its not like hes sneaky about it: you see his entire head pointed at the guy hes going to throw to during the receivers entire route.

This isnt a tangible statistic where someone can say "Jason campbell does it x% while some other QB does it y%... but its an obvious problem that has plagued him most of his career. Some can make excuses (perhaps even legitimate ones) that he stares down his receivers because: 1) he doesnt trust them to run their routes, and 2) he's had to learn so many new systems he's never comfortable with the one he's in - but theres no denying that the tendancy itself exists.[/quote]Okay, but now we're just shifting the definition to fit the argument. It's gone from "he absoultely can not play the position because he just stares down receivers and everyone knows it" to "some people observe that he may doing this a bit too much, and he needs to show improvement in order to develop".

I'm not going to bother to disagree with the last point, because it's totally opinional (as opposed to totally false, like the first one). I just like to deal with concrete evidences and leave as little guesswork in the analysis as possible. [U]Concretely[/U], [2008 Jason Campbell] was better than [2007 Jason Campbell] which was better than [the average NFL QB in this era] whom is better than [2006 Jason Campbell]. If that makes any sense. That's concrete.

Concrete [I]doesn't [/I]mean undeniable, because there's plenty of different ways to evaluate performance. I'm just taking one specific way that isn't stupid.

re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;525958]Okay, but now we're just shifting the definition to fit the argument. It's gone from "he absoultely can not play the position because he just stares down receivers and everyone knows it" to "some people observe that he may doing this a bit too much, and he needs to show improvement in order to develop".

I'm not going to bother to disagree with the last point, because it's totally opinional (as opposed to totally false, like the first one). I just like to deal with concrete evidences and leave as little guesswork in the analysis as possible. [U]Concretely[/U], [2008 Jason Campbell] was better than [2007 Jason Campbell] which was better than [the average NFL QB in this era] whom is better than [2006 Jason Campbell]. If that makes any sense. That's concrete.

Concrete [I]doesn't [/I]mean undeniable, because there's plenty of different ways to evaluate performance. I'm just taking one specific way that isn't stupid.[/quote]

I never said he could not play the position. Alot of mediocre QBs stare down receivers and they still have starting jobs. Also, I dont see how recognizing a fact (Campbell has a tendancy to stare down receivers) can be a matter of opinion - its a fact. he does it a lot. He's always done it alot. In every system he's ever been in. The fact cant be disputed. The disagreement arises because the fact is not [I]easily quantifiable.[/I] That doesnt mean its not a valid point in arguing the Pros and Cons to keeping him as the starting QB in 2009.

re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;525965]I never said he could not play the position. Alot of mediocre QBs stare down receivers and they still have starting jobs. Also, I dont see how recognizing a fact (Campbell has a tendancy to stare down receivers) can be a matter of opinion - its a fact. he does it a lot. He's always done it alot. In every system he's ever been in. The fact cant be disputed. The disagreement arises because the fact is not [I]easily quantifiable.[/I] That doesnt mean its not a valid point in arguing the Pros and Cons to keeping him as the starting QB in 2009.[/quote]Well, understood, but I've been openly challenging how much it actually happens for about a week now because it doesn't seem to make logical sense that this big, great problem that is going to prevent him from developing, you know, hasn't actually hindered his development.

That, and I've just never, ever have noticed anything of the sort. Not that I think I'm above error here, I'm sure I've overlooked quite a bunch of things from a bunch of players this season...but this isn't an analysis of HB Blades' lateral movement ability. This is the quarterback of the Washington Redskins. I feel like if your assessment was anywhere near correct, I wouldn't be so dumbfounded right now at how you came up with it.

I'm not asking you to prove it to me mathematically, I'm just wondering if it's as obvious as you claim it to be, why does it NOT show up on the television broadcast footage (or the rare coaches tape bit on NFL N), and if it's as significant for his future development as you think it will be, why haven't we seen it in his progress to date?

I think these are legitimate questions you at least should consider.

re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

[quote=irish;525885]Stats are nice and JCs stats compare well but now Flacco & Ryan have taken their teams to the playoffs and won. JC hasnt taken his team anywhere. I think when you look at the talent all three have to work with that JC has the most and still cant score or get the team over the hump. Right now Flacco & Ryan are way ahead of JC on the development scale and JC has a bunch more years in the league than they do.[/quote]the sky being blue is nice....but it's still green (sorry couldn't resist) :)

I would argue that neither QB "took" his team to the playoffs. They didn't lose games for the most part, but when asked to put the team on their shoulders, neither could get it done. Not a slight to either QB, because I think both will be good, but Flacco & Ryan are by no means ahead of JC in development, not even close.

JC was asked to carry the team late in the season, behind a poor OL (and yes that makes a HUGE difference) and unfortunately he's not John Elway or Dan Marino. If you watched the games or look at the numbers, the rushing numbers along with passing numbers declined in the second half of the season, due to injury/poor OL play.

As far as talent at skill positions I would take the 2008 versions of Roddy White, Jenkins and Finneran or Mason, Clayton, whoever the Ravens third WR is, over Moss, ARE and our third (Thomas, Thrash). The OLs of both the Falcons and Ravens are tops in the league, ours is bottom third.

Falcons: #2 in rushing attempts, # 2 in Yds, # 3 in TDs, # 10 in Yds/Att.

Ravens: # 1 in Rush Att, # 4 in Yds, # 7 TDs, # 24 in Yds/Att.

These numbers show the superiority of the OLs. They also show coaches who are trying to protect young QBs with a solid run game.

After Week 2 and up until the Steelers game, the JC bashing crowd was nowhere to be found. Did JC magically just go from being one of the top performers in the league to being crap in 2-3 weeks? Did Portis go from being a top performer to crap in 2-3 weeks? Or maybe OL problems were really the major issue for our poor offensive performance.

The same arguments were made last off-season, those who supported Campbell last off-season were correct. He improved significantly from last season. This is not a point for dispute, it is fact. JC is not the problem, we've got issues on the OL that must be addressed or we will struggle in 2009.

re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;525971]the sky being blue is nice....but it's still green (sorry couldn't resist) :)

I would argue that neither QB "took" his team to the playoffs. They didn't lose games for the most part, but when asked to put the team on their shoulders, neither could get it done. Not a slight to either QB, because I think both will be good, but Flacco & Ryan are by no means ahead of JC in development, not even close.

JC was asked to carry the team late in the season, behind a poor OL (and yes that makes a HUGE difference) and unfortunately he's not John Elway or Dan Marino. If you watched the games or look at the numbers, the rushing numbers along with passing numbers declined in the second half of the season, due to injury/poor OL play.

As far as talent at skill positions I would take the 2008 versions of Roddy White, Jenkins and Finneran or Mason, Clayton, whoever the Ravens third WR is, over Moss, ARE and our third (Thomas, Thrash). The OLs of both the Falcons and Ravens are tops in the league, ours is bottom third.

Falcons: #2 in rushing attempts, # 2 in Yds, # 3 in TDs, # 10 in Yds/Att.

Ravens: # 1 in Rush Att, # 4 in Yds, # 7 TDs, # 24 in Yds/Att.

These numbers show the superiority of the OLs. They also show coaches who are trying to protect young QBs with a solid run game.

After Week 2 and up until the Steelers game, the JC bashing crowd was nowhere to be found. Did JC magically just go from being one of the top performers in the league to being crap in 2-3 weeks? Did Portis go from being a top performer to crap in 2-3 weeks? Or maybe OL problems were really the major issue for our poor offensive performance.

The same arguments were made last off-season, those who supported Campbell last off-season were correct. He improved significantly from last season. This is not a point for dispute, it is fact. JC is not the problem, we've got issues on the OL that must be addressed or we will struggle in 2009.[/quote]

The sky is often green in LA.

I can only chuckle that anyone would think JC is ahead of Flacco or Ryan. If nothing else having playoff experience puts F & R ahead of JC. Like I said in another post, CP's production went down in the second half because the Skins were often playing from behind and had to pass which put more on to JC that he didnt have to do in the first half when his numbers were good (because he didnt have to do more than flip short passes). The O line is very important but not critical to success as Pgh didnt have a very good O line this year but what they did have was a QB that could make/extend plays to win games. The Skins dont have that in their QB.

JC did improve a lot during this past offseason (there wasnt really anywhere to go but up but he did improve) and at his current rate the Skins will have a decent QB in 5 or 6 years.

re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

[quote=irish;526049]Like I said in another post, CP's production went down in the second half because the Skins were often playing from behind and had to pass which put more on to JC that he didnt have to do in the first half when his numbers were good (because he didnt have to do more than flip short passes).[/quote]Just because you said it doesn't make it right. The Redskins abandoned the run when it wasn't successful, not because they were "playing from behind" and needed to pass. They were only out of (down by more than 8 pts) in the following games: Steelers, Giants, Ravens. They weren't generating anything with the run game in any of these three games.

[quote]The O line is very important but not critical to success as Pgh didnt have a very good O line this year but what they did have was a QB that could make/extend plays to win games. The Skins dont have that in their QB.[/quote]
Poor argument. The Steelers success this year had a lot more to do with their # 1 defense than their offense. Big Ben's QB rating was actually 80.1 (JCs was 84.3) and his production was way off from last year when his OL was solid. The Steeler run game dropped off from last year from # 3, to # 23 in Yds. The Steeler offensive ratings are all in the bottom half of the league. This indicates pretty clearly that an OL drop-off hurts any offense, and is critical to offensive success.

[quote]JC did improve a lot during this past offseason (there wasnt really anywhere to go but up but he did improve) and at his current rate the Skins will have a decent QB in 5 or 6 years.[/quote]
If JC improves his QB rating another 7 points (as he did from 07 to 08) it will put him as a top ten QB in the NFL.

re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;526073]Just because you said it doesn't make it right. The Redskins abandoned the run when it wasn't successful, not because they were "playing from behind" and needed to pass. They were only out of (down by more than 8 pts) in the following games: Steelers, Giants, Ravens. They weren't generating anything with the run game in any of these three games.


Poor argument. The Steelers success this year had a lot more to do with their # 1 defense than their offense. Big Ben's QB rating was actually 80.1 (JCs was 84.3) and his production was way off from last year when his OL was solid. The Steeler run game dropped off from last year from # 3, to # 23 in Yds. The Steeler offensive ratings are all in the bottom half of the league. This indicates pretty clearly that an OL drop-off hurts any offense, and is critical to offensive success.



If JC improves his QB rating another 7 points (as he did from 07 to 08) it will put him as a top ten QB in the NFL.[/quote]

When a team only averages 16.6 ppg being down by 8 means the game is over. Being down by something less means you have to pass. They did and CP didnt run because of it. Spin it how you want but they didnt run as much because they were down and needed to pass more.

The Pgh D helped them be successful and did take pressure off the O. That said the O did avg 21.7ppg which isnt the best but by no means down in Skins territory. Why do you think they had a run drop off? They lost Fanneca and the line was just not that good. They really went the entire season without much of a running game (due to injuries) but they had a QB who could make plays and win games. The Skins didnt.

Stats do lie and I'll bet you my next paycheck that if you polled all NFL GMs and coaches asking them if they'd rather have BR or JC I am certain 99% take BR. JC has been in the NFL for 4 years now and we are still talking ifs. I think after one more year of excuses the Skins will decide to go in a different direction with the QB position.

re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

It's kind of funny how we've gone 12 pages here talking about Jason Campbell and his future, or lack thereof possibly, with the Redskins when a)we have another multiple page thread going on that right now, and b)the original intent of this thread was not to discuss Leftwich as a replacement for Campbell but as one for Todd Collins.

So, in an attempt to bring us back home so to speak, I am going to modify the thread title and ask the following question:

Are we comfortable with our current QB situation if Campbell goes down?

Re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

Interesting choice for a modified title. In response, i would say, i'm very uncomfortable with our QB situation with Campbell under center. if he goes down, i dont think we could realy ask for a better situation at backup. We arent going to find a #1 caliber QB to sit behind Campbell. Byron Leftwich would never come to washington to be a backup and i cant think of any other starting-caliber QBs who would either. Todd Collins is about as good a stop-gap as we could ask for. If Campbell goes down and is out for an extended period of time, and our offensive line is upgraded in 2009, id much rather see Brennan go in, though. If our line is bad, no way would i give him a trial by fire.

Re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;526083]It's kind of funny how we've gone 12 pages here talking about Jason Campbell and his future, or lack thereof possibly, with the Redskins when a)we have another multiple page thread going on that right now, and b)the original intent of this thread was not to discuss Leftwich as a replacement for Campbell but as one for Todd Collins.

So, in an attempt to bring us back home so to speak, I am going to modify the thread title and ask the following question:

[B]Are we comfortable with our current QB situation if Campbell goes down?[/B][/quote]

NO. Colt is nowhere close to ready to lead a football team. Todd Collins is an old statue who, save for a 4 game stretch, has done next to nothing his entire career except hold a clipboard. During his 4 game tear (his lone career highlight), he was running an offense he studied for like 7 years in KC. He looked pretty bad, and pretty lost in Zorn's offense during training camp/preseason last year. Also, should Collins need to play, I fear for his life given the current state of our offensive line.

Re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

[quote=GMScud;526088]NO. Colt is nowhere close to ready to lead a football team. Todd Collins is an old statue who, save for a 4 game stretch, has done next to nothing his entire career except hold a clipboard. Also, should Collins need to play, I fear for his life given the current state of our offensive line.[/quote]

So what do we do? What can we do?

Re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

I'm comfortable handing it over to Colt. I don't think he needs 5 years watching Campbell play before he's ready. If guys like Flacco can do it, I see no reason why Colt couldn't handle it. This is all under the assumption JC goes down of coarse. I think he's ready.

Re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;526089]So what do we do? What can we do?[/quote]

Well, we can't do much. The UFA QB's aren't too impressive (aside from Cassel and Warner), and even if they were I don't think we would or should go after any of them. There are a few guys out there who would upgrade the backup situation (Losman, K.Collins, JT O'Sullivan) but Todd Collins is under contract, and if we cut or traded Brennan, the Colt Cult would burn down Redskins Park.

If the question is "are we comfortable with our [B]current[/B] QB situation if Campbell goes down," then my answer is NO based on 2008. Now, come training camp, Brennan, Collins, and JC will all be further along in this offense than they were a year ago. So my hope is all three look really sharp, and we'll be fine.

Weak answer, I know, but it's all I've got.

Re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;526089]So what do we do? What can we do?[/quote]

Short term... make Colt the backup and hope for the best.

Long Term...pick up whichever QB NE doesn't want to keep at the end of next season. The only problem is that it may require sending high draft picks via trade. I am not too fond of that idea. Hopefully the Pat's do not get a deal done with Cassel (realistic) OR they release Brady (I doubt that).

The alternative waste a high draft pick on a Rookie QB next year because as it stands now there is no one else that is both good and will be available.

Re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

I am not in favor of having Colt start in place of JC. But that does not mean I don't think he can. It seems that we have a good rookie QB in Colt. Why would we look any further?I am not able to paste stats from my phone but for those who don't know, Colt was the best rookie QB in preseason. With a completion percentage of 67.9 and a QB rating of 109.9 So the guy is quite capable.

Re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

[quote=44ever;526099]I am not in favor of having Colt start in place of JC. But that does not mean I don't think he can. It seems that we have a good rookie QB in Colt. Why would we look any further?I am not able to paste stats from my phone but for those who don't know, [B]Colt was the best rookie QB in preseason[/B]. [B]With a completion percentage of 67.9 and a QB rating of 109.9 So the guy is quite capable[/B].[/quote]

I wouldn't read into those stats one bit. He was playing as a 3rd stringer in preseason. He was lighting up guys that are for the most part backup NFL players or practice squad types. Sure, it's a positive sign that he played well, but I wouldn't use those stats as an argument that he can be a capable starter at this point.

Re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

Guys like Danny Wuerffel looked good in the preseason too. Who cares.

Re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

Matty,

I think you should start a new thread..."This summer, can we recapture the magic of August 2008 when Colt Brennan, Marcus Mason, and Billy McMullen stole America's hearts and guided the Washington Redskins to a 3-2 Preseason Record"

or

"Who Will Be the 2009 Preseason MVP?"

Re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;526111]Matty,

I think you should start a new thread..."This summer, can we recapture the magic of August 2008 when Colt Brennan, Marcus Mason, and Billy McMullen stole America's hearts and guided the Washington Redskins to a 3-2 Preseason Record"

or

"Who Will Be the 2009 Preseason MVP?"[/quote]

That's too funny.

Actually, the 2009 Preseason MVP idea would be a legit thread in the days leading up to the first preseason game.

Re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

[quote=Mattyk72;526102]Guys like Danny Wuerffel looked good in the preseason too. Who cares.[/quote]

Yea but not as good as Colt did. Not a great argument here.

Re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;526111]Matty,

I think you should start a new thread..."This summer, can we recapture the magic of August 2008 when Colt Brennan, Marcus Mason, and Billy McMullen stole America's hearts and guided the Washington Redskins to a 3-2 Preseason Record"

or

"Who Will Be the 2009 Preseason MVP?"[/quote]

Why? Because only other teams can have a great rookie QB. But once again the Skins can't. The old double standard. I don't see the need for this new proposed thread(s) it's patronizing.

Re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

[quote=44ever;526120]Yea but not as good as Colt did. Not a great argument here.[/quote]

I think the point is that a 3rd string QB playing well against 3rd string defenders doesn't mean much. It's better than him playing crappy against 3rd stringers I guess.

Re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

[quote=GMScud;526124]I think the point is that a 3rd string QB playing well against 3rd string defenders doesn't mean much. It's better than him playing crappy against 3rd stringers I guess.[/quote]

I know what you guys are saying but all I'm saying is as a backup if JC goes down it might not be a disaster. It could be a Flacco type thing. Maybe not. I just don't see why not give him the shot.

Re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

[quote=44ever;526122]Why? Because only other teams can have a great rookie QB. But once again the Skins can't. The old double standard. I don't see the need for this thread it's patronizing.[/quote]

First, the new thread suggestion is just a joke. Secondly, I think Colt certainly showed potential (or as Dirtbag likes to put it...Upside!) in his limited time on the field with and against borderline at best NFL talent in many instances. Still, strong preseason stats just aren't enough to tell us the whole story and can often be misleading.

Case in point...Bruce Gradkowski and Cleo Lemon were the best QBs during the preseason of 2006

Look, I think Colt has a lot of potential and actually could be a pretty decent NFL QB just that it's too soon to say for sure

Re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

[quote=GMScud;526124]I think the point is that a 3rd string QB playing well against 3rd string defenders doesn't mean much. It's better than him playing crappy against 3rd stringers I guess.[/quote]

You have a point, but keep in mind Colt was supposed to be the next top QB and then messed up his chances in college. He was playing (so I thought) for one of the big colleges. Then screws that up with getting into trouble. His play was exceptional at the school but they let him go due to his issues he had. Hawaii picked him up and he had to learn how to play in the "Run and Shoot" style of offense. He did well in that offense also. You can blame the QB but even the pro's had trouble with the "Run and Shoot." Simply look at Warren Moon always getting sacked while playing with the Oilers, Take a look at the Falcons of old, and even the Skins when they ran the "Run and Shoot" aka..."Fun and Gun."

I'm actually rooting for JC and hope he does well but every once and a while a player comes and knocks peoples socks off. Look at Tom Brady, Bret Favre, and last years Rookie QB's for the Ravens and Falcons. Heck Favre went to the Falcons first and they didn't like his throwing motion and felt he would be no good so they traded him to the Packers. He lit it up up there. I'm sure the Falcons felt stupid for doing that. Colt may turn out to be a dud or something special I just hope coach's know what they are doing and are not trying to change his throwing motions too much either(I thought it was mentioned Zorn wanted to fix the side arm throwing motion Colt has) cause that is what has brought him to this point. Now if it will allow him to throw the ball further then so be it but I feel when you start screwing up with something a player has done all his life and still has done pretty well for himself, don't change him. Changing him may take away his accuracy or speed on the ball, or how far he can throw it.

Re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

[quote=GMScud;526117]That's too funny.

Actually, the 2009 Preseason MVP idea would be a legit thread in the days leading up to the first preseason game.[/quote]

Marques Hagans!

Re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

[quote=44ever;526125]I know what you guys are saying but all I'm saying is as a backup if JC goes down it might not be a disaster. It could be a Flacco type thing. Maybe not. I just don't see why not give him the shot.[/quote]

If JC went down, I would have no issue giving Colt a shot. But the question was are we "comfortable" with the backup situation. Brennan hasn't take a single snap in an NFL game, and I was pretty clear about my thoughts on Collins. So, no, I'm not comfortable with with backup situation right now. I don't think anyone is saying Colt would be a total disaster if he was forced into action. I also don't think he would put up numbers anywhere close to last year's preseason either.

Re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

Is this going to stop?

Re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

[quote=SBXVII;526128]You have a point, but keep in mind Colt was supposed to be the next top QB and then messed up his chances in college. He was playing (so I thought) for one of the big colleges. Then screws that up with getting into trouble. His play was exceptional at the school but they let him go due to his issues he had. Hawaii picked him up and he had to learn how to play in the "Run and Shoot" style of offense. He did well in that offense also. You can blame the QB but even the pro's had trouble with the "Run and Shoot." Simply look at Warren Moon always getting sacked while playing with the Oilers, Take a look at the Falcons of old, and even the Skins when they ran the "Run and Shoot" aka..."Fun and Gun."

I'm actually rooting for JC and hope he does well but every once and a while a player comes and knocks peoples socks off. Look at Tom Brady, Bret Favre, and last years Rookie QB's for the Ravens and Falcons. Heck Favre went to the Falcons first and they didn't like his throwing motion and felt he would be no good so they traded him to the Packers. He lit it up up there. I'm sure the Falcons felt stupid for doing that. Colt may turn out to be a dud or something special I just hope coach's know what they are doing and are not trying to change his throwing motions too much either(I thought it was mentioned Zorn wanted to fix the side arm throwing motion Colt has) cause that is what has brought him to this point. Now if it will allow him to throw the ball further then so be it but I feel when you start screwing up with something a player has done all his life and still has done pretty well for himself, don't change him. Changing him may take away his accuracy or speed on the ball, or how far he can throw it.[/quote]

This post is kind of confusing. First off, Colt was not supposed to be the "next top QB." He was Matt Leinart's backup for most of his high school career, and was a walk-on at Colorado before getting kicked out for some drunken excursion involving frontal nudity and fondling of a coed. He redshirted the one year he was at Colorado. Not sure where you're getting your facts, but his play was not "exceptional." I don't think he even played a single snap at Colorado actually.

Second, what does some pro QB's initially struggling in the Run and Shoot have to do with Brennan's success running that system in college?

Third, comparing Brennan's potential to the unforseen success of Brady and Favre is like a needle in a haystack. The chances for any QB (let alone a current 3rd stringer) turning into the next Favre or Brady are very remote.

Sure, there is a chance Brennan could eventually be good. I guess I'm just not sure what you're trying to say here.

Re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

I move for a motion for closure on thread. All in favor say aye.

Re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

[quote=saden1;526138]I move for a motion for closure on thread. All in favor say aye.[/quote]

Here's what I propose:

There should be one thread and one thread only discussing our QB situation, be it starter or backup. And no new threads on the topic until there is some actual news to report.

Re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

[quote=GMScud;526124]I think the point is that a 3rd string QB playing well against 3rd string defenders doesn't mean much. It's better than him playing crappy against 3rd stringers I guess.[/quote]

i hate that argument because it ignores the fact that Brennan also had other third stringers along side him. He had third stringers blocking for him. He had third stringers catching passes from him. Also you have to remember that in a preseason game, the starters usually arent trying that hard - their primary focus is not getting hurt. 3rd stringers, on the other hand, are guys fighting for jobs. They go all out and hold nothing back.

That said, the only thing you can really read into a pre-season performance is his comfortability in a system. Looking at our backups, by all appearances, Brennan was very comfortable and Collins wasnt. We'll see how they look in pre-season this coming year.

Re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

[quote=saden1;526138]I move for a motion for closure on thread. All in favor say aye.[/quote]
aye...

Re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

I said it once and I'll say it again, the only QB competition will be for the role of primary clipboard holder- Brennan or Collins. Although it would be kind of awkward to pay Collins $3M to be a 3rd stringer....

The sooner everyone around here realizes our QB situation right now is what it's going to be for 2009, the better.

Re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

Thank you for whoever modified this thread. And please let this be the end of the non-sense threads/comments that blindly pin the faults of the 8-8 season on JUST Jason Campbell.

Re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

[quote=saden1;526138]I move for a motion for closure on thread. All in favor say aye.[/quote]
Bipartisanship at its best....aye!

Re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

[quote=GMScud;526144]I said it once and I'll say it again, the only QB competition will be for the role of primary clipboard holder- Brennan or Collins. Although it would be kind of awkward to pay Collins $3M to be a 3rd stringer....

The sooner everyone around here realizes our QB situation right now is what it's going to be for 2009, the better.[/quote]

You must have misread my post - i was comparing Collins and Brennan and I said last year Brennan looked more comfortable than Collins. I then said we would see how they looked in pre-season this year.

I didnt even hint about a QB competition for the #1 spot. I was referring to the fact that its likely Brennan could become the #2 this year. I didnt get to it, but by extension, i think that would mean we would say bye-bye to Collins...and as you pointed out, it would be rather awkward to pay 3M for a 3rd string QB so its highly likely that Collins will be let go if he loses the job. For this reason, i'm pretty sure we'll have another QB to push Collins for the job. Brennans Zorns hand-picked QB. Unless he regresses significantly, i can't see his job (as a backup) being in jeopardy this year.

Re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;526150]You must have misread my post - i was comparing Collins and Brennan and I said last year Brennan looked more comfortable than Collins. I then said we would see how they looked in pre-season this year.

I didnt even hint about a QB competition for the #1 spot. I was referring to the fact that its likely Brennan could become the #2 this year. I didnt get to it, but by extension, i think that would mean we would say bye-bye to Collins...and as you pointed out, it would be rather awkward to pay 3M for a 3rd string QB so its highly likely that Collins will be let go if he loses the job. For this reason, i'm pretty sure we'll have another QB to push Collins for the job. Brennans Zorns hand-picked QB. Unless he regresses significantly, i can't see his job (as a backup) being in jeopardy this year.[/quote]

No, I didn't misread your post. We're actually on the exact same page as far as the Brennan/Collins thing. I shouldn't have quoted you when I typed that response. My bad. I'll go fix it.