Re: Offensive line depth (R. Thomas' injury)
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;592864]In my opinion, Snyder should call Holmgren and see if he wants the HC job. He's familair with the offense and the terminology and could step right in and call plays. If Holmgren was agreeable, i'd offer to let Zorn stay on as a Offensive Coordinator/QB coach, but we need someone else, with experience in this system, calling plays. If Holmgren isnt intersted, then sticking with Zorn is the best option, because we dont have anything better in-house.[/quote]

Do you think Holmgren would interested in coming to a team that fired his former Disciple? You might as well scratch him from the list.

Re: Offensive line depth (R. Thomas' injury)
 

[quote=Mattyk72;592771]I don't think Cowher would make much sense here anyway. What makes sense is to bring in someone with a WC background to make for a smooth transition. Holmgren, Shanahan, or even Gruden. I wouldn't argue with any of those 3.[/quote]
You are always the voice of reason, and this post sounds to me like you have already given up on Zorn. Maybe, I am taking it out of context, but if you feel this way, Zorn is in deep trouble. I thought there were some questionable calls, but I did not realize how mad everyone was. I hope that everyone is wrong, because I am sick of this team starting over.

Re: Offensive line depth (R. Thomas' injury)
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;592865]Maybe so, my problem at this point is that this season is basically Campbells make or break, so throwing another coordinator at the problem just seems doomed to failure. Basically, I am "content" with letting JZ/Campbell sail down this sea together, either they make it work, or we say sayonara. That way no coach we may bring in feels like Danny gave JZ an unfair ride, and they are not tied to Campbell.

And if they do get it together, like Theissman and JG1 after the 0-5 start, then we will all be very happy fans.[/quote]

Maybe what I should have said was "should it have been" Not "should it be" At this point it may be too late

Re: Offensive line depth (R. Thomas' injury)
 

It's official in case it hasn't been posted yet:

[url=http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-redskins-thomas&prov=ap&type=lgns]RG Thomas out for season with torn right triceps - NFL - Yahoo! Sports[/url]

FYI Thomas will be a $6.1M deadcap in 2010 if/when he retires...

Re: Offensive line depth (R. Thomas' injury)
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;592875]Do you think Holmgren would interested in coming to a team that fired his former Disciple? You might as well scratch him from the list.[/quote]

Do you think Holmgren has a high opinion of Zorn? I don't. Theres a reason he was only a QB coach in Seattle. Zorn simply isnt HC material.

At this point, each passing game (going in to last season) only confirms the theory that Zorn is simply in over his head. Unfortunately, its not matter of IF Zorn will lose the HC job, its a matter of WHEN. The majority of our offensive players - most of whom we are financially committed to for years to come - are simply getting too old to go through another rebuilding year in 2010. Whether Campbell is franchise QB material or not, i think he, and our entire offense absolutely NEED some system continuity if they are to have any chance of success in their careers. Unless we want to rebuild for 3-4 years, and waste the talent that has been assembled on both sides of the ball, we need to replace Zorn with a proven, successful, and experienced HC who will run a near-identical system and we must do it sooner rather than later.

IMO, the transition to Holgren would be near-seamless and the benefits (game-planning, game management, playcalling, etc.) would be instantaneous.

Re: Offensive line depth (R. Thomas' injury)
 

[quote=Bucket;592788][B]Jesus.. STFU about new coaches and QB's and try to act like loyal Redskin fans for once? Let's just see what ahppens this season, or atleast wait till we've played more then 2 games before we start calling for heads.[/B]

[B]What the hell is wrong with some of you? lol[/B][/quote]

What's wrong with us? Where should I begin? I can remember when Zorn was named HC and we were told that he would be installing a high powered scoring offense and a fast moving offense. To tell you the truth I'm still waiting. Nothing has changed since Gibbs2 and it's probably due to the Skins having the same personell, and same coach's.

Some of us may be losing our minds due to yelling at the tv screen or radio for the last 2 yrs. To be truthfull we were told the same thing under Al Saunders. Did we see the "Fast moving, high scoring offense"? Yes we did, but it was New England that had it not the Skins.

Last yr our run game was the staple of the team and Zorn tried to incorporate more passing plays. Little changed. This yr after adding some 130 plays over the summer we keep seeing the same plays all day long with no production. I actually believe the passing game is now the staple of the team cause we have no run game. Can we recall Dorsey or Alridge? I ask cause did you see how the Giants spread themselves out trying to keep Dallas from running to the outside which in effect opened up the middle? Yet when they played us they lined up 8 in the box and all between the tackles. Why? cause we have no outside threat.

What is Hixon teaching the WR's? I watched the Giants and Dallas WR's make it look easy. Why? How? I think it's because they are using curl routes, come backs, and stop and goes. Our WR's simply run a route and hope they can get seperation. Other teams WR's seem to know where the 1st down marker is and actually go beyond it to catch the ball...ours stop 5 yrds short and don't get YAC.

Re: Offensive line depth (R. Thomas' injury)
 

Oh, and I failed to mention how JC seems to blast the ball to his WR's within 15 yrds of him. Over throws the long ball. and changes into the wrong play.

Re: Offensive line depth (R. Thomas' injury)
 

[quote=SBXVII;592969]Oh, and I failed to mention how JC seems to blast the ball to his WR's within 15 yrds of him. Over throws the long ball. and changes into the wrong play.[/quote]

Such a hater.....who cares how hard the ball is thrown, if it hits your hands your gonna cry, right?

Re: Offensive line depth (R. Thomas' injury)
 

[quote=roth74va;592974]Such a hater.....who cares how hard the ball is thrown, if it hits your hands your gonna cry, right?[/quote]


Yeah, Ok, Tell that to Sellers who had the ball blasted at him with in 10 yrds and watched the ball go through his hands. Might have been a TD, maybe not. ...but lets not put blame where blame is due and coddle the QB. Better yet lets enable him and tell him he's doing well and keep doing it, then blame Sellers for not making the catch.

Re: Offensive line depth (R. Thomas' injury)
 

[quote=SBXVII;592979]Yeah, Ok, Tell that to Sellers who had the ball blasted at him with in 10 yrds and watched the ball go through his hands. Might have been a TD, maybe not. ...but lets not put blame where blame is due and coddle the QB. Better yet lets enable him and tell him he's doing well and keep doing it, then blame Sellers for not making the catch.[/quote]

Tell that to Sellers, I'm sure he would tell you otherwise.

Re: Offensive line depth (R. Thomas' injury)
 

[quote=SBXVII;592979]Yeah, Ok, Tell that to Sellers who had the ball blasted at him with in 10 yrds and watched the ball go through his hands. Might have been a TD, maybe not. ...but lets not put blame where blame is due and coddle the QB. Better yet lets enable him and tell him he's doing well and keep doing it, then blame Sellers for not making the catch.[/quote]

Are you kidding? You can't ask for a better throw than the one Campbell dropped right in Sellerss hands over the defender

Re: Offensive line depth (R. Thomas' injury)
 

As to the Sellers throw, it was perfect and in stride. Sellers was furious with [I]himself[/I] for dropping it.

The throw to Thomas was a rocket but it hit him in the chest and hands. He has [I]got[/I] to make that catch. Period!

Campbell played well given the calls. He missed the first throw to Kelly but Zorn never went back to it.

Re: Offensive line depth (R. Thomas' injury)
 

Rinehart just named the starter.

Re: Offensive line depth (R. Thomas' injury)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;592986]Are you kidding? You can't ask for a better throw than the one Campbell dropped right in Sellerss hands over the defender[/quote]

Perfect pass and it definitely didn't have too much mustard on it.

Sellers flat out dropped it.

I can't believe this is even a discussion.

Re: Offensive line depth (R. Thomas' injury)
 

John Elway shouldn't have thrown short passes so hard either.

Re: Offensive line depth (R. Thomas' injury)
 

Sellers on his drop:

"Win or no win, Mike Sellers was ticked Sunday afternoon. He kept his back to the locker room. He answered questions tersely, his voice low and quiet. He pretty hurriedly left the room through a back door. I ran into him as he was leaving the facility, while he was stopping to joke with some kids and sign some autographs. I told him he looked pissed off.

"I am pissed off," he said. "I dropped a touchdown. I'm one of the guys you depend on, and I had it in my hands, and I didn't catch it. I didn't come through with what I was preaching to everybody else all week long."

Rage was trickling out through his eyes. You've never seen a victorious player fume like this. I asked whether the win didn't make him feel better.

"No," he said. "We won, yeah, but my performance, I'm not happy with it. I'm not. I've got to be hard on myself, because I expect more out of myself. Lack of concentration. Don't worry about it, I'll be on the JUGS machine, working on it.""

[url=http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2009/09/the_redskins_post-rams_grumpin.html?wprss=dcsportsbog]D.C. Sports Bog - The Redskins' Post-Rams Grumpiness[/url]

Re: Offensive line depth (R. Thomas' injury)
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;593012]Rinehart just named the starter.[/quote]
Who said this.

Re: Offensive line depth (R. Thomas' injury)
 

[url=http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/jason-reid/rineharts-ready-for-his-big-br.html#more]Redskins Insider - Rinehart's Ready for His Big Break (Updated)[/url]

Re: Offensive line depth (R. Thomas' injury)
 

[quote=T.O.Killa;593030]Who said this.[/quote]

I think right now that is just an assumption from Redskins Insider, nothing official on the Redskins website.

Re: Offensive line depth (R. Thomas' injury)
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;593012]Rinehart just named the starter.[/quote]

Because we've got nothing else at this point. When Zorn said in his presser "we're looking for someone who can start for us," I was pretty darn concerned. To go into the season with a line as old and injury prone as ours, to not have solid back ups in whom we have confidence is just... well... stupid as hell really.

Frankly I have NO confidence in Rinehart. We're going to start a guy who has never even been active in a real NFL game? Yikes.

Re: Offensive line depth (R. Thomas' injury)
 

Rinehart has worked hard all spring and summer for this opportunity, and we need Montgomery's versatility as a backup. Here's hoping Rinehart gets the job done

Re: Offensive line depth (R. Thomas' injury)
 

Weren't there whispers in camp that some in the organization wanted Rinehart to be starting at RG?

Nothing against Thomas but I hope this injury is a blessing in disguise. It's time to see what Rinehart is capable of.

Re: Offensive line depth (R. Thomas' injury)
 

[quote=GMScud;593037]Because we've got nothing else at this point. When Zorn said in his presser "we're looking for someone who can start for us," I was pretty darn concerned. To go into the season with a line as old and injury prone as ours, to not have solid back ups in whom we have confidence is just... well... stupid as hell really.

Frankly I have NO confidence in Rinehart. We're going to start a guy who has never even been active in a real NFL game? Yikes.[/quote]
Take it easy. The Redskins know how to replace the Right Guard, they have to do it every year. What we cant replace is Samuels. But like I said, name me one team that can effectively replace their Left Tackle.

Re: Offensive line depth (R. Thomas' injury)
 

[quote=Mattyk72;593042]Weren't there whispers in camp that some in the organization wanted Rinehart to be starting at RG?

Nothing against Thomas but I hope this injury is a blessing in disguise.[B] It's time to see what Rinehart is capable of[/B].[/quote]

I want nothing more than for Rinehart to shine. But thus far he hasn't even been capable of being in a uniform on Sundays, let alone starting. Makes me awfully nervous.

Re: Offensive line depth (R. Thomas' injury)
 

[quote=GMScud;593046]I want nothing more than for Rinehart to shine. But thus far, he hasn't even been capable of being in a uniform on Sundays, let alone starting. Makes me awfully nervous.[/quote]
Thats so they can dress fifteen running backs. We have a very unorthodox coach to say the least.

Re: Offensive line depth (R. Thomas' injury)
 

[quote=GMScud;593046]I want nothing more than for Rinehart to shine. But thus far he hasn't even been capable of being in a uniform on Sundays, let alone starting. Makes me awfully nervous.[/quote]

Realistically, it's hard to dress too many offensive linemen that aren't starters because they don't really contribute to special teams so they take up active roster spots. And when you have a situation like yesterday where both Smoot and Barnes are inactive and Tryon has to play more defense than special teams, then you have to make sure guy a like Marcus Mason (who can contribute on special teams) is active before Rinehart. Even though they don't play the same position.

Re: Offensive line depth (R. Thomas' injury)
 

[quote=GMScud;593046]I want nothing more than for Rinehart to shine. But thus far he hasn't even been capable of being in a uniform on Sundays, let alone starting. Makes me awfully nervous.[/quote]

It's a numbers game on Sundays as the article points out. He only plays guard so it's tough to dress a guy who only can fill in at one spot.

Re: Offensive line depth (R. Thomas' injury)
 

I agree. You can't dress a guy who only fills one role and a back-up one at that. His being inactive was more about numbers than his ability. That being said, let's see what he can do. Dockery summed it up well during the post game presser. This is the NFL and people get hurt all the time. You have to be ready to step up. He went on to say that whoever it is Buges would spend time with him and coach that guy up. He didn't expect it to be a major disruption to the unit either.

I hope Rinehart is a beast. Let's make it happen big guy. We're pulling for ya. (no pun intended)

Re: Offensive line depth (R. Thomas' injury)
 

[quote=Mattyk72;593055]It's a numbers game on Sundays as the article points out. He only plays guard so it's tough to dress a guy who only can fill in at one spot.[/quote]

I understand that about the 53 man, especially with the CB issue yesterday. But I seem to remember the consensus among the staff/FO during offseason evaluations was that he simply wasn't an NFL caliber player. Looked flat out terrible on a consistent basis. I understand he's come a long way in during OTAs and camp, but I find it hard to believe that a guy who looked to be on his way out of the league has turned himself into a starting caliber player in a matter of months. But hey, we can hope.

Re: Offensive line depth (R. Thomas' injury)
 

[quote=GMScud;593093]I understand that about the 53 man, especially with the CB issue yesterday. But I seem to remember the consensus among the staff/FO during offseason evaluations was that he simply wasn't an NFL caliber player. Looked flat out terrible on a consistent basis. I understand he's come a long way in during OTAs and camp, but I find it hard to believe that a guy who looked to be on his way out of the league has turned himself into a starting caliber player in a matter of months. But hey, we can hope.[/quote]

Well, what you remember is JLC (I think it was him) saying "some in the organization" think Rinehart has a long ways to go. This was back in February I believe

Re: Offensive line depth (R. Thomas' injury)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;593106]Well, what you remember is JLC (I think it was him) saying "some in the organization" think Rinehart has a long ways to go. This was back in February I believe[/quote]

Yes, it was JLC, but I remember the comments were a lot more harsh than Rinehart "has a long ways to go."

Okay, here ya go:[I]

"Third-round pick Chad Rinehart is not seen as a capable player at this point, according to numerous sources involved in the meeting, and is not projected as being anywhere close to able to replace Pete Kendall or Randy Thomas at guard. Many coaches, including Bugel, worry about his confidence and ability, sources said. He is not being counted on to produce much in 2009, and if he did it would be a surprising development."[/I]

[url=http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/skins-first-set-of-personnel-m.html]Redskins Insider - Initial Personnel Ratings Completed[/url]

Re: Offensive line depth (R. Thomas' injury)
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;593027]Sellers on his drop:

"Win or no win, Mike Sellers was ticked Sunday afternoon. He kept his back to the locker room. He answered questions tersely, his voice low and quiet. He pretty hurriedly left the room through a back door. I ran into him as he was leaving the facility, while he was stopping to joke with some kids and sign some autographs. I told him he looked pissed off.

"I am pissed off," he said. "I dropped a touchdown. I'm one of the guys you depend on, and I had it in my hands, and I didn't catch it. I didn't come through with what I was preaching to everybody else all week long."

Rage was trickling out through his eyes. You've never seen a victorious player fume like this. I asked whether the win didn't make him feel better.

"No," he said. "We won, yeah, but my performance, I'm not happy with it. I'm not. I've got to be hard on myself, because I expect more out of myself. Lack of concentration. Don't worry about it, I'll be on the JUGS machine, working on it.""

[URL="http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2009/09/the_redskins_post-rams_grumpin.html?wprss=dcsportsbog"]D.C. Sports Bog - The Redskins' Post-Rams Grumpiness[/URL][/quote]

I'll concede that perhaps JC is not the problem cause I'm not of the mind set that I hate him or don't like him. But I will say you'd have a hard time finding anyone on the team right now that would be pointing fingers at others, of course they are going to blame themselves for not getting the job done. No different then if you had asked JC about the play he might have said "I could have lightened up on the throw a little" or " I could have gotten it to him sooner." I seriously doubt you would find JC saying "Oh that was all Sellers. He screwed up." or " Sellers saying "That was all JC he needs to not blast it at me so close."

Re: Offensive line depth (R. Thomas' injury)
 

[quote=GMScud;593111]Yes, it was JLC, but I remember the comments were a lot more harsh than Rinehart "has a long ways to go."

Okay, here ya go:

[I]"Third-round pick Chad Rinehart is not seen as a capable player at this point, according to numerous sources involved in the meeting, and is not projected as being anywhere close to able to replace Pete Kendall or Randy Thomas at guard. Many coaches, including Bugel, worry about his confidence and ability, sources said. He is not being counted on to produce much in 2009, and if he did it would be a surprising development."[/I]

[URL="http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/skins-first-set-of-personnel-m.html"]Redskins Insider - Initial Personnel Ratings Completed[/URL][/quote]

I thought Buges also called him out saying something like Chad was not getting the technique down or something to that effect? Then like a week later he changed his tune saying Chad is practicing hard and always at the facility working on his technique. I remember being totally confused about the whole flip-flop routine.

Re: Offensive line depth (R. Thomas' injury)
 

[quote=SBXVII;593121]I'll concede that perhaps JC is not the problem cause I'm not of the mind set that I hate him or don't like him. But I will say you'd have a hard time finding anyone on the team right now that would be pointing fingers at others, of course they are going to blame themselves for not getting the job done. [B]No different then if you had asked JC about the play he might have said "I could have lightened up on the throw a little" or " I could have gotten it to him sooner." I seriously doubt you would find JC saying "Oh that was all Sellers. He screwed up." or " Sellers saying "That was all JC he needs to not blast it at me so close."[/B][/quote]

Actually, JC pretty much called out his receivers (appropriately, it seems to me) - from that same article:

On Jason Campbell - "He wasn't surly or angry or shouting, but he let it be known that he didn't appreciate the two dropped balls in the red zone, by Sellers and Devin Thomas.

'Well you know, it's frustrating,' Campbell told Johnson. 'We had two touchdown passes early in the game [that were dropped]. You're talking about game-changing plays, because now we're up 14 to zero, and that gives us the opportunity to take some confidence out of that team. And when you're just getting field goals what it does is you're continuing to put confidence into the Rams, and they just continue to feel like they can hang around, continue to play with you. And you saw what happened, it ended up being a nailbiter.' "

Re: Offensive line depth (R. Thomas' injury)
 

[quote=SBXVII;592969]Oh, and I failed to mention how JC seems to blast the ball to his WR's within 15 yrds of him. Over throws the long ball. and changes into the wrong play.[/quote]

I think it's pretty clear why Campbell threw the ball as hard as he did at Sellers. QB's throw the ball faster when they know the window is closing. And there was no doubt that window would close within mere milliseconds if he didn't rocket that pass in there. Go ask any wideout or any player on the field counted on to catch the ball and not a single one will tell you it's not fair that they have to catch passes thrown as hard as possible to get squeezed into that window. They know their jobs and what they have to do. The pass was fine.

Look at the bright side though, judging by the Bog's postgame quotes Mike is plenty mad about it too, so you can expect a better performance out of him next time around hopefully.

I agree with Matty as well about Rinehart. I hope this is a blessing in disguise too, and hopefully Rinehart will step up and solidify himself as our starting RG for the future.

Re: Offensive line depth (R. Thomas' injury)
 

[quote=GMScud;593111]Yes, it was JLC, but I remember the comments were a lot more harsh than Rinehart "has a long ways to go."

Okay, here ya go:[I]

"Third-round pick Chad Rinehart is not seen as a capable player at this point, according to numerous sources involved in the meeting, and is not projected as being anywhere close to able to replace Pete Kendall or Randy Thomas at guard. Many coaches, including Bugel, worry about his confidence and ability, sources said. He is not being counted on to produce much in 2009, and if he did it would be a surprising development."[/I]

[url=http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/skins-first-set-of-personnel-m.html]Redskins Insider - Initial Personnel Ratings Completed[/url][/quote]

That was then. This is now, according to the Insider:

"Rinehart lost his confidence while playing tackle in the 2008 preseason, and the internal reviews on him were not good in the offseason. But Rinehart impressed after working exclusively at guard, coaches and players said, and Vinny Cerrato, Washington's executive vice president of football operations, is high on Rinehart, who says he is ready to roll after working closely with center Casey Rabach and right tackle Stephon Heyer in the preseason."

and

"Rinehart has come a long way from the guy who failed badly in his brief tryout at tackle in the previous preseason. It's one thing for Cerrato, who drafted Rinehart, to say he has potential, but I've heard it from several other people as well."

We'll find out soon enough!

Re: Offensive line depth (R. Thomas' injury)
 

[quote=JWsleep;593131]That was then. This is now, according to the Insider:

"Rinehart lost his confidence while playing tackle in the 2008 preseason, and the internal reviews on him were not good in the offseason. But Rinehart impressed after working exclusively at guard, coaches and players said, and Vinny Cerrato, Washington's executive vice president of football operations, is high on Rinehart, who says he is ready to roll after working closely with center Casey Rabach and right tackle Stephon Heyer in the preseason."

and

"Rinehart has come a long way from the guy who failed badly in his brief tryout at tackle in the previous preseason. It's one thing for Cerrato, who drafted Rinehart, to say he has potential, but I've heard it from several other people as well."

We'll find out soon enough![/quote]

Nothing like trial by fire. :)

Re: Offensive line depth (R. Thomas' injury)
 

[quote=JWsleep;593131]That was then. This is now, according to the Insider:

"Rinehart lost his confidence while playing tackle in the 2008 preseason, and the internal reviews on him were not good in the offseason. But Rinehart impressed after working exclusively at guard, coaches and players said, and Vinny Cerrato, Washington's executive vice president of football operations, is high on Rinehart, who says he is ready to roll after working closely with center Casey Rabach and right tackle Stephon Heyer in the preseason."

and

"Rinehart has come a long way from the guy who failed badly in his brief tryout at tackle in the previous preseason. It's one thing for Cerrato, who drafted Rinehart, to say he has potential, but I've heard it from several other people as well."

We'll find out soon enough![/quote]
JLC never had any real inside information. For all we know he might have made it up.

Re: Offensive line depth (R. Thomas' injury)
 

[quote=JWsleep;593131]That was then. This is now, according to the Insider:

"Rinehart lost his confidence while playing tackle in the 2008 preseason, and the internal reviews on him were not good in the offseason. But Rinehart impressed after working exclusively at guard, coaches and players said, and Vinny Cerrato, Washington's executive vice president of football operations, is high on Rinehart, who says he is ready to roll after working closely with center Casey Rabach and right tackle Stephon Heyer in the preseason."

and

"Rinehart has come a long way from the guy who failed badly in his brief tryout at tackle in the previous preseason. It's one thing for Cerrato, who drafted Rinehart, to say he has potential, but I've heard it from several other people as well."

We'll find out soon enough![/quote]

I hope that report is right about him. All I'm saying is he has played exactly zero regular season snaps and now he's starting. Like I said, makes me nervous. Obviously I'm pulling for him though.

Re: Offensive line depth (R. Thomas' injury)
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;592801]There's nothing wrong with us. Three field goals is what's wrong. We're loyal enough to get on a message board because we're hardcore Redskin fans. How many other fans know the entire lineup and depth of their team?

The time for stacking O-line men was years ago. If Zorn does get the boot then I say Vinny should too. I watched the Giants and Girls play last night. Watching the girls run on NJ just made my angry. Why can't we do that?

If we have to blow it up then blow it up. Nothing I've seen so far suggests that we'll not. Nothing short of the playoffs will stop this IMO.[/quote]

I concur...Ive been hoping and praying the skins get it together since they last went to the superbowl in 1991, Im sick of my wife giving me crap for putting my heart out there for them every year to get disappointed...Blow the Offense and Coaching staff up and start over,,,,Its time