Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

Great thread everyone!! We are so comitted to our skins haha.. I'm just tired of being mediocre or bad.. Jc isn't the answer and actually I'm shocked that more ppl want him back, I think most of u just feel bad for him this year.. Hey I admit he has been screwed with zorn and the whole offensive line, but this doesn't change the fact the he's not very good. I have watched every game he has started in his career and not once did I say ... This guy is our guy to lead us to greatness. Other than the two times he's played the saints I can't tell u when he surprised me in any game. He is so predictable and even Cris collinsworth said it best when he said "maybe this guy will be just average his whole career" this team can't afford to put any more time into a 28 year old QB that has never trully panned out. I hope he goes elswhere and has a solid end to his career, but his time here is almost certain to be over.

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;647705]And while there's plenty of room for disagreement on the topic of this thread, factual falsehoods are unnecessary to back your point.[/quote]No factual falsehoods. From the Jaws article for an example:

Jaworski cites two instances in the Raiders' game when Campbell received a call in the huddle -- a reverse -- that clearly was the wrong play for the defensive formation. [B]In both instances, the Raiders' cornerback blitzed and stuffed the play. [/B]
[B]"This is a mental error on Jason's part," Jaworski said. "You've got to get out of this play." [/B]


[quote]You'll find plenty of critiques of Campbell's play throughout my work, but neither you or I noticed anything about blitz recognition or pre-snap issues.

Everything you mentioned is along the lines of "Campbell left this throw on the table", "He flat out missed this throw", "Needed this third down conversion, Campbell low and behind". Granted.

You never really mentioned anything about pre-snap read or blitz recognition struggles, and this is because they aren't in anyway pronounced. It's a falsification of the evidence.[/quote]

From my Eagles review: He also didn't read the blitzes properly, call correct protections, or go to a hot receiver to slow down the Iggles blitz.

From my Panthers review: Out of 23 pass attempts, 13 were quick passes to 1 receiver (no reads) or screens. 3 were play-action, of the other 7, 4 were the TE delay play. Zorn isn't putting Campbell in a position to drop-back or sit in the gun, [B]read the D[/B] and make throws based on progressions/[B]reads[/B].

From the Bucs review: - Next series here's a breakdown of the bad INT which was targeted to Moss: Safety cheats up so JC should read either Cover 1 or Cover 3. Zorn has a motion in the play to help identify Man or Zone coverage. Based on the motion and the DBs reaction it looks to be Zone (and it was). On JC's drop he should be seeing Cover 3 with the way the DBs open out of their stance, Moss runs a go, Kelly runs a Go from the slot on the opposite side, ARE runs a Deep Out, Mason stays in to block and delays to the left flat, Cooley runs a Shallow Cross to hold the LBs. If JC wanted to hit Moss, again that throw has to be deep and outside. What he should've done was look the Safety off and come back to Kelly who had inside leverage on the CB covering deep. Let 12 make a play with his big frame and good hands. If JC didn't want to make the throw to Kelly he should've progressed across the field to ARE (covered) then to Mason on the check-down.

[quote]My biggest point: Campbell is neither the problem, nor the solution to the problem. I think I remember reading that in your Chiefs review as well, so if I stole it from you, I apologize.[/quote]Part of the Eagles review (just above the Chiefs one :))

I'm not saying JC is the only problem we have, he's not. But he's not part of the solution either. He made a few good plays, but the mistakes he makes and limitations he has week in and week out are not tolerable. He will not be more than a back-up anywhere else.

I like JC, I wanted him to "get it" this year and be successful, even after the first couple of games I thought he'd be fine. But he hasn't. He's 28 and is far "behind the curve" in terms of improvement. If the Skins can come up with any sort of solution at QB in the draft, FA, or trade, it's time for both JC and the Skins to part ways, IMHO.

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=Paintrain;647583]I guess I'm in the mood to stir it up today but would you be screaming bloody murder if we were considering bringing in Joe Flacco, Carson Palmer, David Garrard or Matt Ryan? Just asking cause they've been pretty much the same QB as JC this year.[/quote]

They have similar stats but like I have said over and over, stats dont tell the story. All the QBs except DG have lead their teams into the playoffs, JC hasnt. Heck, Ryan & Flacco did it when they were rookies who should have been struggling in a new system (as JC supporters like to think is a given). I will take any of these 3 QBs and 2 will be a huge improvement and 1 will be at least as good.

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;647582]Plato once said "A good decision is based on knowledge and not on numbers"-soak your feet in that for a minute[/quote]

People do think that information & knowledge are one in the same.

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

IF Shanny is comes here this coming year who is our best option at quarterback under his system for next year?

JC, Bradford, Clausen, Colt (not Pineapple), or soon-to-be-cut vet?

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

I voted yes for a few reasons. 1) I don't think Jason Campbell is a bad qb. 2) I believe he can do well if he had a running game and some pass protection. 3) Even if we did have a rookie come in here I doubt he would do well with the OL we have right now. 4) He's the best qb option we have right now.

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

Start Collins next year, get rid of Campbell. Why is it Todd can come in rusty as hell and make better throws than 17?

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

I don't know if he should be back with redskins next season, but I definitely don't think he deserves any more chances.

If Campbell deserves a chance back, then so does Zorn. Zorn's had to work that same offensive line. I at least am consistent with this - Zorn and Campbell both do not deserve to come back. They've had their chances to show consistent improvement.

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=Jesse E. Timmons;647768]Start Collins next year, get rid of Campbell. Why is it Todd can come in rusty as hell and make better throws than 17?[/quote]

Because he hasn't taken the 38 sacks Campbell has...Leave him in for a full season and it will be painfully obvious that Campbell is head and shoulders better than Collins

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

people have to realize that some of the sacks that jc takes are on him. sometimes he doesn't step up in the pocket, sometimes he holds the ball too long, doesn't see what the defense is doing to him fast enough. on a 3 step drop it's very simple, 1-2-3 and throw. And even on the quick short stuff he holds the ball. we've seen this over and over and over again. it's like the guy can't make any adjustments to his game. imo the first position that needs to be addressed is qb.

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;647632]I'm not really comparing Rodgers to Campbell. I'm saying Rodgers is a top ten QB in the mind of dreamers. He won 5 games last year, 10 games this year, and he's a game below .500 in his career with a superior team to the Redskins. In essence, he's where Jason Campbell was at this point last year.[/quote]

I think judging QB's by W/L is silly. Vince Young has a winning record and Rogers doesn't. Who is the better QB? If Rogers is out on the trade block like JC then numerous teams are trying to get him. No one really wanted JC and there is a reason for that. I'm not sure I'm ready to put Rogers in the top ten yet but he's well on his way. He's one of the most gifted throwers in the NFL. The guy is throwing darts in 15 degree weather. You simply can't deny his throwing talent. Yes he holds the ball too long sometimes. But so what? None of these guys are perfect. And w/ Rogers the good far outweights the bad. Rogers hands down is a stud.

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=irish;647748]They have similar stats but like I have said over and over, stats dont tell the story. All the QBs except DG have lead their teams into the playoffs, JC hasnt. Heck, Ryan & Flacco did it when they were rookies who should have been struggling in a new system (as JC supporters like to think is a given). I will take any of these 3 QBs and 2 will be a huge improvement and 1 will be at least as good.[/quote]

Actually Garrard led the Jags to like an 11-5 record a couple of years back. Ok, so taking what you said about all of them being better than JC, with the same exact circumstances we faced this year but insert any of the other QB in there, how differently do you think our season would have turned out?

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=Jesse E. Timmons;647768]Start Collins next year, get rid of Campbell. Why is it Todd can come in rusty as hell and make better throws than 17?[/quote]

Why would anyone with an iota of football knowledge endorse starting a career backup who will be knocking on the door of 40 next season? Really? Is that the best you could offer is 'Start Collins next year'?

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;647795]I think judging QB's by W/L is silly. Vince Young has a winning record and Rogers doesn't. Who is the better QB? If Rogers is out on the trade block like JC then numerous teams are trying to get him. No one really wanted JC and there is a reason for that. I'm not sure I'm ready to put Rogers in the top ten yet but he's well on his way. He's one of the most gifted throwers in the NFL. The guy is throwing darts in 15 degree weather. You simply can't deny his throwing talent. [B]Yes he holds the ball too long sometimes. But so what?[/B] None of these guys are perfect. And w/ Rogers the good far outweights the bad. Rogers hands down is a stud.[/quote]

Why is that ok for Rodgers but you hold that against Campbell for the same thing?

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

I voted NO.

Every QB in the league can play with a solid running game and good pass protection.

This has been a bad relationship that just needs to end.

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=FRPLG;647504]Best thread in a while....

I look at it this way. If you took JC and dropped him in NE what would they do? I think he's a 4000/30TD guy there. Certainly not as good as Brady but I think he'd succeed wildly. Is he ever going to be a dynamic play maker that turns turd players into gold like Manning or Brees? No. But he has the same physical skill set that Tom Brady does. He struggles mentally compared to Brady but he isn't a dolt. I do have suspicions about his read ability. Part of me wonders if he has so much football in his head that he is lost in a football jungle but I also see the guy get destroyed every other play, lay on the ground for a few seconds and then get up and take the next snap. If I am an offensive player that freaking inspires me. His on field example is just top-notch to me.

And Rave...you forget what Ramsey was like after a couple seasons. JC is 5 times the QB Ransey ever was. He had didn't have the head for it at all and then he got scared.[/quote]

No freakin way. Brady sees the field better, he's more accurate, he doesn't hold on to the ball, he anticipates wr's coming out of their breaks better and no one feels the rush like Brady does. Need I go on?

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=Mattyk;647799]Why is that ok for Rodgers but you hold that against Campbell for the same thing?[/quote]

Rodgers has fixed that problem. Campbell hasn't.

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=Mattyk;647799]Why is that ok for Rodgers but you hold that against Campbell for the same thing?[/quote]

Have you actually seen the throws Rogers makes week in and week out? JC can't consistently make enough plays in the pocket game where Rogers does it every single week. You can't even compare the two. I'll take some sacks from Rogers cause I know what he's going to give me. With JC I'll get a 5 yard dump off on 3-8.

Someone pull up the tape Charley Casserly did on Campbell. It's gotta be on You Tube. Meanwhile Collins walks in off the bench cold and drops a dime right into Moss' hands. I've seen enough of JC. It's time to move on.

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

^ I guess ppl don't watch Rodgers play, there is no comparing him and Campbell. Alot of ppl here have a hard time admitting that jc isn't very good and idk y? It is wht it is he's an avg guy

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;647791]people have to realize that some of the sacks that jc takes are on him. sometimes he doesn't step up in the pocket, sometimes he holds the ball too long, doesn't see what the defense is doing to him fast enough. on a 3 step drop it's very simple, 1-2-3 and throw. And even on the quick short stuff he holds the ball. we've seen this over and over and over again. it's like the guy can't make any adjustments to his game. imo the first position that needs to be addressed is qb.[/quote]

Right...but the sacks that he causes are far less than the sacks given up by the O line that even an average line wouldn't give up. Look at the games where the O-line plays decently, he has really good games...look at like the 13 games where the O-line does not play well, and he has what? an average game?

I'll take that going into next year over a draft pick who has a 80-85 percent chance of being the next Tim Couch

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=rbanerjee23;647826]Right...but the sacks that he causes are far less than the sacks given up by the O line that even an average line wouldn't give up. Look at the games where the O-line plays decently, he has really good games...look at like the 13 games where the O-line does not play well, and he has what? an average game?

I'll take that going into next year over a draft pick who has a [B]80-85 percent chance [/B]of being the next Tim Couch[/quote]

How'd you come up with that number?

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;647832]How'd you come up with that number?[/quote]
And without even knowing who it might be!

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=rbanerjee23;647826]Right...but the sacks that he causes are far less than the sacks given up by the O line that even an average line wouldn't give up. Look at the games where the O-line plays decently, he has really good games...look at like the 13 games where the O-line does not play well, and he has what? an average game?

I'll take that going into next year over a draft pick who has a 80-85 percent chance of being the next Tim Couch[/quote]

HAHAHAHAHA So now Bradford or Clausen are Tim Couch? I guess you just want to stick with a losing QB for ever... I bet you couldn't build a good team in Madden lol:rofl:

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

^Isaac Newton's Second Law of Couch Dynamics.

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=rbanerjee23;647826]Right...but the sacks that he causes are far less than the sacks given up by the O line that even an average line wouldn't give up. Look at the games where the O-line plays decently, he has really good games...look at like the 13 games where the O-line does not play well, and he has what? an average game?

I'll take that going into next year over a draft pick who has a 80-85 percent chance of being the next Tim Couch[/quote]

Let's see what Shanahan does. I think his ability to judge QB's is much better than anyone here. Perhaps he can design an offense that has more mid range and deep stuff that won't ask JC to read the whole field so he can get rid of the ball quicker.

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;647852]Let's see what Shanahan does. I think his ability to judge QB's is much better than anyone here. Perhaps he can design an offense that has more mid range and deep stuff that won't ask JC to read the whole field so he can get rid of the ball quicker.[/quote]

:doh: :bdh::vomit::bs::yeahright:benched:

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=Paintrain;647796]Actually Garrard led the Jags to like an 11-5 record a couple of years back. Ok, so taking what you said about all of them being better than JC, with the same exact circumstances we faced this year but insert any of the other QB in there, how differently do you think our season would have turned out?[/quote]

I think the Skins would have been at least an 8-8 team maybe 9-6. Teams know the Skins cant pass and that lets them be more aggressive on D since they know its very unlikely they will get burned for a big pass play.

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=irish;647868]I think the Skins would have been at least an 8-8 team maybe 9-6. Teams know the Skins cant pass and that lets them be more aggressive on D since they know its very unlikely they will get burned for a big pass play.[/quote]

You're out of you damn mind if you think JC is so bad as to have lost us 4 games on his own.

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;647832]How'd you come up with that number?[/quote]

From 1998-2008, these are the quarterbacks drafted in the first round:

[B]Peyton Manning[/B]
Ryan Leaf
Tim Couch
[B]Donovan McNabb[/B]
Akili Smith
Daunte Culpepper
Cade McNown
Chad Pennington
Michael Vick
David Carr
Joey Harrington
Patrick Ramsey
Carson Palmer
Byron Leftwich
Kyle Boller
Rex Grossman
[B]Eli Manning[/B]
[B]Philip Rivers[/B]
[B]Ben Roethlisberger[/B]
J.P. Losman
Alex Smith
[B]Aaron Rodgers[/B]
[B]Jason Campbell[/B]
Vince Young
Matt Leinart
[B]Jay Cutler[/B]
Jamarcus Russell
Brady Quinn

That is a total of 28 quarterbacks...of those, I've bolded those who I think have been really good QBs. That means that roughly 70% (my apologies) are busts

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;647855]:doh: :bdh::vomit::bs::yeahright:benched:[/quote]

You forgot one

:frusty:

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;647855]:doh: :bdh::vomit::bs::yeahright:benched:[/quote]

lol. yeah what was i thinking????

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=FRPLG;647874]You're out of you damn mind if you think JC is so bad as to have lost us 4 games on his own.[/quote]

I didnt say JC lost 4 games on his own. I'm saying having a QB that provides the threat of a passing game allows the O the ability to do certain things that make the D have to plan for. Having that passing threat would IMO allow the Skins to score more points and that would change the complexion of the game (in other words, a ripple effect).

Its not as simple as 1 player winning or losing a game.

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=SBXVII;647876]You forgot one

:frusty:[/quote]

More like two and a half. Culpepper use to be one of the more dominant QB's in the league of course that lasted only 3 or 4 years. Obviously Carson Palmer should have been highlighted. Don't know what you have against Chad Pennington to not select him.

Either way I think in a lot of cases it depends on the situation the QB goes to, and I think with Shannahan running the offense and Bruce Allen rebuilding the offensive line we will have the framework to develop a quality rookie QB like Bradford. My only worry is that the Rams take him before we can. Still make no mistake about it, I want Bradford to be this teams QB next year.

Edit: Wait you selected Jason Campbell as a 1st round hit? In that case how do you select JC and not Culpepper? At least Culpepper had a span of years where he was dominant. JC's span only lasted 8 games. Then you don't select Palmer? You could have easily proven your point without trying to skew the numbers in your favor. Do you work for Fox News or NBC?

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

I think cases could be made for highlighting Vick and Leftwich as well.

Having JC highlighted as a very good QB with names like P. Manning, McNabb, Big Ben & Rivers is an absolute joke.

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=rbanerjee23;647875]From 1998-2008, these are the quarterbacks drafted in the first round:

That is a total of 28 quarterbacks...of those, I've bolded those who I think have been really good QBs. That means that roughly 70% (my apologies) are busts[/quote]

[B]Peyton Manning[/B]
Ryan Leaf - bust
Tim Couch - bust
[B]Donovan McNabb[/B]
Akili Smith - bust
[I]Daunte Culpepper - he had a nice career[/I]
Cade McNown
[I]Chad Pennington - weak arm, but solid game manager[/I]
[I]Michael Vick - drafted for athletic ability, faded once folks knew how to stop him. Did lead Falcons to playoffs early in career.[/I]
David Carr - bust
Joey Harrington - bust
Patrick Ramsey - bust
[I]Carson Palmer - Good career thusfar[/I]
[I]Byron Leftwich - had some solid years in Jax, led team to playoffs if I'm not mistaken[/I].
Kyle Boller - Bust
[I]Rex Grossman - did lead team to super bowl, but overall underperformed his draft status.[/I]
[B]Eli Manning[/B]
[B]Philip Rivers[/B]
[B]Ben Roethlisberger[/B]
J.P. Losman
Alex Smith
[B]Aaron Rodgers[/B]
[I][B]Jason Campbell - I wouldn't classify JC as a "really good QB".[/B][/I]
[I]Vince Young - hasn't justified his draft position, but we'll see if he's a bust by his performance next year.[/I]
Matt Leinart
[B]Jay Cutler[/B]
Jamarcus Russell
[I]Brady Quinn - I'd like to see him with another team before he's classified as a bust. The dysfunction in Cleveland is worse than here. I'd actually like to see him brought in here for a shot.[/I]

Are you saying we shouldn't draft a QB in the first round because 50% of these guys don't work out? Should we not have drafted JC in the first round (my opinion in hindsight is that Gibbs missed on this one)?

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=irish;647899]I think cases could be made for highlighting Vick and Leftwich as well.

Having JC highlighted as a very good QB with names like P. Manning, McNabb, Big Ben & Rivers is an absolute joke.[/quote]

Idk how he highlights jc and cutler in the same names as manning rivers etc, how this guy thinks jc is a top qb is beyond me

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=rbanerjee23;647875]From 1998-2008, these are the quarterbacks drafted in the first round:

[B]Peyton Manning[/B]
Ryan Leaf
Tim Couch
[B]Donovan McNabb[/B]
Akili Smith
Daunte Culpepper[COLOR="Red"]****[/COLOR]
Cade McNown
Chad Pennington[COLOR="Red"]****[/COLOR]
Michael Vick[COLOR="Red"]****[/COLOR]
David Carr
Joey Harrington
Patrick Ramsey
Carson Palmer[COLOR="Red"]****[/COLOR]
Byron Leftwich
Kyle Boller
Rex Grossman
[B]Eli Manning[/B]
[B]Philip Rivers[/B]
[B]Ben Roethlisberger[/B]
J.P. Losman
Alex Smith
[B]Aaron Rodgers[/B]
[B]Jason Campbell[/B]
Vince Young[COLOR="Red"]****[/COLOR]
Matt Leinart[COLOR="Red"]****[/COLOR]
[B]Jay Cutler[/B]
Jamarcus Russell
Brady Quinn[COLOR="Red"]****[/COLOR]

That is a total of 28 quarterbacks...of those, I've bolded those who I think have been really good QBs. That means that roughly 70% (my apologies) are busts[/quote]

i think al those with red would not be considered busts either and i throw lienart and quinn in there because they haven't really had an oppurtunity yet, and i hate vick but there is no way he is a bust, and carson palmer is one of the best qb's playing the game right now

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

hey paintrain,who the hell took us to the playoffs, who kicks ass when asked to play. but i dont have an iota of knowledge like your self.

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=Jesse E. Timmons;647908]hey paintrain,who the hell took us to the playoffs, who kicks ass when asked to play. but i dont have an iota of knowledge like your self.[/quote]

4 games in 2007 in a system he'd been in for a decade and who completes one long pass per game (how did he do in the 2nd half against KC?) doesn't offset a career of being a backup.

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

your right campbell kicks so much ass.