Re: John Beck Era Begins
 

[quote=mooby;849838]I saw that and was gonna say something but it's nice to see it's already been covered by everyone else.[/quote]

One more never hurts. You can always beat a dead horse. It is an organism after all....

:bdh:

Re: John Beck Era Begins
 

Sure recievers can cause interceptions, but F. Davis was being a bit generous w/Rex when he said two picks were on him. He was being supportive. Yes he could've broken up the first one, but the coverage was so obviously there. Rex has gotten away w/a lot of bad throws, there were 2 dropped by Iggles last week. The Arizona game in particular he had several bad throws that could've easily been picks.

The int. #s & wr drops will typically even out. Some passes are complete despite a bad pass, while some are dropped or picked off that might've been good decisions. I wouldn't put many of REx's mistakes on the recievers, he's made plenty of them by himself.

Re: John Beck Era Begins
 

[quote=SkinzWin;849829]I think he will be better for these reasons:

1. He is more mobile. He can extend the play by pulling it down and running, as he did against the Eagles for a long run to extend the drive.

2. Beck doesn't say, "F&@# it, I'm throwing it deep into double coverage, or right into the middle linebacker I didn't see drop into coverage again." He can throw it deep but doesn't do it with the reckless abandonment that Rex is so well known for.

3. He is a game manager. He will make the throws he needs to make and let the run game and defense win the game as I think this is how our team is set up. (Note, injuries to the o-line do have a big impact on this and I would have loved to see how things would have been different this week with all our starting linemen and receivers in the game.)[/quote]

1- Just to point out the first 4 games there really was not much of a need for Grossman to run around because protection was great. So there was no need to extend drives.

2- I'll give you this one. Grossman is more risky with the ball.

3- He didn't manage the 12 min. of the Eagles game very well. He scored so I give him props but otherwise I think he used too much clock huddling up like McNabb would do.

Re: John Beck Era Begins
 

[quote=SBXVII;849864]1- Just to point out the first 4 games there really was not much of a need for Grossman to run around because protection was great. So there was no need to extend drives.

2- I'll give you this one. Grossman is more risky with the ball.

3- He didn't manage the 12 min. of the Eagles game very well. He scored so I give him props but otherwise I think he used too much clock huddling up like McNabb would do.[/quote]

1. I know he didn't NEED to run around but I am saying that Beck can if he has to, Rex can not. That is a big plus for Beck IMO.

2. Thank you.

3. He also hasn't played since the preseason. I think that he could have hurried up a bit more, but it also helps if you've been in the flow of the game not holding a clip board for 4 weeks. I think that will come with 1st team reps in practice this week.

I will continue until you see things my way and I can say Thank you for all three points.... :)

Re: John Beck Era Begins
 

Hard to run a hurry up or 2 minute drill when you may not have been practicing that specific stuff very much. I'm sure that will improve as he gets more snaps in practice.

Re: John Beck Era Begins
 

yeah, and that's a coaching decision, it's not like he just decides they're going to run the 2 minute O.

Re: John Beck Era Begins
 

[quote=Mattyk;849879]Hard to run a hurry up or 2 minute drill when you may not have been practicing that specific stuff very much. I'm sure that will improve as he gets more snaps in practice.[/quote]

Totally agree with you, but you might as well blame the coaching staff as well. I have yet to see a decent 2 min. drill out of McNabb, Grossman, or Beck. Which is my main point. I don't have a problem with Grossman being benched as much as I have a problem with people believing all our worries are resolved because now "Beck" is in.

Yes Beck scrambled for a couple 1st downs and a TD. Awesome. I hope he keeps it up. But honestly I just don't see much that will be changing because even though it's easy to blame Rex for his bad throws one could easily point and ask was it really the QB or the WR not running the route right? or the WR tipping the ball up for grabs? or just running the route waiting for the ball to land in their laps instead of going after the ball when the CB is going after the ball.

Re: John Beck Era Begins
 

I think time management has been a huge problem with this team. Not only the last two years with Shanny, but with Zorn, Gibbs, etc. etc.

Re: John Beck Era Begins
 

Now what do I expect to see this weekend? I think our run game will be about as good and bad as it has been in the first 4 games. The Panthers DL is bad and their run stopping ability is supposed to be low. However our OL does not have its starters which I'm hoping doesn't balance out.

The team needs to use Becks mobile ability to the teams advantage, roll him out. Use a lot of play action pass. Becks should be able to hit the WR's on the deep pass better as long as the WR can get seperation and provided the WR actually catches the ball.

Re: John Beck Era Begins
 

[quote=SBXVII;849893]Totally agree with you, but you might as well blame the coaching staff as well. I have yet to see a decent 2 min. drill out of McNabb, Grossman, or Beck. Which is my main point. I don't have a problem with Grossman being benched as much as I have a problem with people believing all our worries are resolved because now "Beck" is in.

Yes Beck scrambled for a couple 1st downs and a TD. Awesome. I hope he keeps it up. But honestly I just don't see much that will be changing because even though it's easy to blame Rex for his bad throws one could easily point and ask was it really the QB or the WR not running the route right? or the WR tipping the ball up for grabs? or just running the route waiting for the ball to land in their laps instead of going after the ball when the CB is going after the ball.[/quote]

Or sometimes it's just the QB making bad decisions. Rex has a well documented history of that. Hopefully Beck will be smarter with the ball.

Re: John Beck Era Begins
 

[quote=SBXVII;849820]A QB does that when the media wants to hang him out to dry, the coaching staff benches him, and the 2nd stringer makes a few comments like "we can't be throwing interceptions every game, we need to protect the ball more." That was a dig at Grossman by Beck. So Grossman came out and the media questioned him about his interceptions.... all he said is he thinks he has done fine and that the interceptions we have seen in the 1st four games he could prove were not his fault through video.

and this is what my whole arguement is ..... I don't think all the INT's are Rex's fault either and for those chanting for Beck to start each game I think you will be let down when the very same WR's fail to do their job and he throws INT's also. Fans are acting like Beck is the savior and will solve this riddle by being able to buy more time but if the WR's cant' catch a cold then the results will be the same.[/quote]

We keep looking at this as 4-5 games for Grossman. The kid has a history of turning the ball over. So, the problem stretches for years not weeks. He hasn't corrected his TO issues in years so it's not going to be fixed.

Do, we know Beck has a TO problem? He has started 4 games. I think if anyone needs a little time to prove himself it's Beck. After all we are comparing 4 games to years of work with Grossman.

Beck may play badly but can it really be much worse then Grossman? As everyone else mentions we need to make a move. May work and may not work but we need to see what we have and make a decision for next year.

Re: John Beck Era Begins
 

Look I was all for giving Grossman the nod to start the season out & see what happens. What happened was a glimpse of good Rex then more BAD REX started to pop up it's ugly head. He's not the worst QB in the league & if Rich Bartel was backing up Grossman then this wouldn't be happening. But it's not, it's John Beck the guy we all thought was going to start back in the spring. He deserves a shot & you know what, this aint no 1-4 team that sucks. The Skins' defense hasn't given up more than 21pts all year, with all those turnovers by Rex that has to point to 2 losses. Even last week, when D-Hall picks off Young & we are in the 20. If Rex doesn't throw up that jump ball with 3 DB's there that game would have had a different outcome. Make no mistake this DEFENSE is something special, they are fun to watch. They are balls to the wall and making plays. Beck will add some spark, buy some much needed time in the pocket and "manage" the game. Get back to pounding the rock and let's do this. Get this shit back on track and let Beck get his shot. Also one request I have to make, let Hankerson get some action ?? Austin too .. I was just starting to dig Gaffney but he's grown old on me in the last few weeks. As far as Cooley is concerned, I love him but Davis is creeping up towards a top 5 TE in this league. He is the shit. HTTR

4-2 after this week will sure look and feel good.

Re: John Beck Era Begins
 

[quote=Gtothearry;849909][B]We keep looking at this as 4-5 games for Grossman. The kid has a history of turning the ball over. So, the problem stretches for years not weeks. He hasn't corrected his TO issues in years so it's not going to be fixed. [/B][/quote]

This^^^
... I agree and feel some were/are looking at Rex as 4-5 games in but like you say, it's been years. Wasn't going to get any better. Can't go a whole season like that because there is no guarantee we are finding our young QB next draft.

Beck at least gives us a second chance at extending the QB position and keeping the team from spiraling down until the QB position is resolved.

Not really sure why all the love for Rex from some... I mean, the guy stinks.

@ SBXVII - Im not a "Beck fan". I just can't stand Rex and Beck is next in line. It's time for change, so I have no choice... The Prediction is only a optimistic prediction, nothing more. After all, I am a Redskins Fan.

Re: John Beck Era Begins
 

I don't know why so much stock is put into Beck. We really should expect the worst and be happy if we get lucky. Grossman makes a ton of mistakes but he has had enough talent to start in the league. Beck, should I remind you, has been a career backup. You can go on and on about how he is unproven, but he is unproven for a reason. Beck can go out and have great game on Sunday but that doesn't mean he won't go out and suck the week after. Both QBs aren't good and nothing about that is new.

(I so hope he is the next coming of Kurt Warner and my post gets quoted and scorned LOL. But it ain't happening folks!)

Re: John Beck Era Begins
 

Guys before we start Talking Kellen Moore in here lets stay focused on Our current starter John Beck.....For all we know we might not need a big time draft Speaking Kellen Moore though I've watched him since he took over at Boise....He looks like a pro QB he made Tidus Young look like Heisman material actually he made himself look like Heisman material....

..Keep in mind though our 30 year old QB was number 4 on the Heisman watch list at one point. Id say get your popcorn ready this is either gonna stink real bad.....or look really good

Re: John Beck Era Begins
 

Just a reminder as I catch-up on this thread: (1) Neither Beck nor Grossman is the answer; (2) Both are, at best, back-ups.

Grossman has proven that both these statements are true as to him.. Beck gets his chance to disprove their applicability to him. Hopefully, he will do so but, ultimately, we will only know after he plays a couple games.

That is all. Please continue arguing about who should start.

Re: John Beck Era Begins
 

[quote=pg86;849942] Id say get your popcorn ready this is [B]either gonna stink real bad.....or look really good[/B][/quote]

Hahaha. Right on!

Re: John Beck Era Begins
 

I hate the eagles more than any other team in the league. Even the cowpukes. But i have to say after MS pulled Grossman and put Beck in i saw a glimmer of hope. And i felt a little better about loosing to those @$$ birds. I realy feel good about this O John boy. Maybe i am just a homer(well this is for sure) but I feel better about Beck than i have about alot of the QBs that have passed through here... Let the Beck Effect start now.

Re: John Beck Era Begins
 

I don't care who starts... this offense prolly hasn't had big play touchdowns since 2005 smh

Re: John Beck Era Begins
 

I too am becoming a Homer for Beck. It would be a great story!!!!

Re: John Beck Era Begins
 

Since before he joined us, I have been a Kyle Shanahan fan. So whichever QB makes his offense looks good, is fine by me.

Re: John Beck Era Begins
 

The real problem with Grossman is- he thinks he played well in all the games prior to the eagles game. Let's just hope Beck isn't as delusional. It isn't that Grossman played terrible, I just think if it wasn't for the rest of the team performing well- Grossmans performance wasn't good enough to win the game- with the exception of the giants game.

Re: John Beck Era Begins
 

Grossman just puts the team in bad positions too often with his mistakes. And he doesn't make enough good plays to balance his performance.

Re: John Beck Era Begins
 

[quote=warriorzpath;849967]The real problem with Grossman is- [B]he thinks he played well in all the games prior to the eagles game[/B]. Let's just hope Beck isn't as delusional. It isn't that Grossman played terrible, I just think if it wasn't for the rest of the team performing well- Grossmans performance wasn't good enough to win the game- with the exception of the giants game.[/quote]

Mmm. I agree with this. He hasn't had a mistake free game since the Giants game. And he doesn't acknowledge that he needs to work on his game. He doesn't acknowledge that throwing into triple coverage will usually result in an interception. It just sounds like he's comfortable with where he is as a qb, which is unacceptable.

Re: John Beck Era Begins
 

Grossman played well against the Giants, and had a great comeback against Arizona. He was respectable against Dallas but that game ending fumble was painful. However his poor performance against a Rams team we should have blown out was the first blatant red flag I saw from him this year. After the Eagles game it was plain as day.

Steadily been playing worse with each passing game. Seriously if you rank his performances it matches our schedule exactly.

1. New York
2. Arizona
3. Dallas
4. St. Louis
5. Philly

This team is looking like it has a 2008-2009 Minnesota Viking level supporting cast around two journeymen QB.

Re: John Beck Era Begins
 

[quote=DCtoAZ;849929]Look I was all for giving Grossman the nod to start the season out & see what happens. What happened was a glimpse of good Rex then more BAD REX started to pop up it's ugly head. He's not the worst QB in the league & if Rich Bartel was backing up Grossman then this wouldn't be happening. But it's not, it's John Beck the guy we all thought was going to start back in the spring. He deserves a shot & you know what, this aint no 1-4 team that sucks. The Skins' defense hasn't given up more than 21pts all year, with all those turnovers by Rex that has to point to 2 losses. Even last week, when D-Hall picks off Young & we are in the 20. If Rex doesn't throw up that jump ball with 3 DB's there that game would have had a different outcome.[B] Make no mistake this DEFENSE is something special[/B], they are fun to watch. They are balls to the wall and making plays. Beck will add some spark, buy some much needed time in the pocket and "manage" the game. Get back to pounding the rock and let's do this. Get this shit back on track and let Beck get his shot. Also one request I have to make, let Hankerson get some action ?? Austin too .. I was just starting to dig Gaffney but he's grown old on me in the last few weeks. As far as Cooley is concerned, I love him but Davis is creeping up towards a top 5 TE in this league. He is the shit. HTTR

4-2 after this week will sure look and feel good.[/quote]

Agree with just about everything but the defense is special part.Defense has played good,very good AT TIMES,but a "special" defense doesnt give up 192 yards rushing and over 200 yards passing.Plus letting the eagles run the ball down our throat in the last 2 minutes when we had to stop them does not a special defense make

Re: John Beck Era Begins
 

[quote=htownskinfan;849984]Agree with just about everything but the defense is special part.Defense has played good,very good AT TIMES,but a "special" defense doesnt give up 192 yards rushing and over 200 yards passing.[B]Plus letting the eagles run the ball down our throat in the last 2 minutes when we had to stop them does not a special defense make[/B][/quote]

Our run defense has never been very good. And considering how little TOP we had in the 1st half, the defense had to have been gassed. I'm not saying that's an excuse for such poor play but just something to consider.

Re: John Beck Era Begins
 

I'm hearing that Grossman lost his starting job more beacause of the fact that he could not admit responsibility for his mistakes and turn-overs, and how he kept saying that all of his performances were good prior to the eagles game.

What i've observed of Grossman is that truly he is so close to be great it's maddening, yet he can't admit times where he just made the wrong decision. Also he always has an explanation for each interception, implying that each interception this year was caused by unforseen circumstances.

All jokes aside though, other than the eagles game where he threw four POOR interceptions, i really believe some of them weren't his fault. (tipped passes, blown routes, etc...)

Either way I think we will see Grossman again if this move to Beck doesn't work and I hope that Rex is humbled and ready to lead this team again. He already has the locker room, now he just needs to be a leader mentally.

Coach seemed to imply that Rex would eventually lose his job in the NFL if he could not admit to wrong-doing and show a desire to change his style on the field. He also said he hopes both Rex and Beck are on this team "For a long time" so he obviously has faith in them...

Re: John Beck Era Begins
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;849993]I'm hearing that Grossman lost his starting job more beacause of the fact that he could not admit responsibility for his mistakes and turn-overs, and how he kept saying that all of his performances were good prior to the eagles game.

What i've observed of Grossman is that truly he is so close to be great it's maddening, yet he can't admit times where he just made the wrong decision. Also he always has an explanation for each interception, implying that each interception this year was caused by unforseen circumstances.

All jokes aside though, other than the eagles game where he threw four POOR interceptions, i really believe some of them weren't his fault. (tipped passes, blown routes, etc...)

Either way I think we will see Grossman again if this move to Beck doesn't work and I hope that Rex is humbled and ready to lead this team again. He already has the locker room, now he just needs to be a leader mentally.

Coach seemed to imply that Rex would eventually lose his job in the NFL if he could not admit to wrong-doing and show a desire to change his style on the field. He also said he hopes both Rex and Beck are on this team "For a long time" so he obviously has faith in them...[/quote]


I agree with most of what you said, however two of the picks against the Eagles were on Fred Davis. Especially the one in the Redzone where he just stopped instead of crossing the saftey's face.

As far as them being on the team for a while, one of the two may be here next year, but i doubt both will. We will draft a QB and one will be let go (Rex is my guess, he's a FA)

Re: John Beck Era Begins
 

[quote=SmootSmack;849965]Since before he joined us, I have been a Kyle Shanahan fan. So whichever QB makes his offense looks good, is fine by me.[/quote]

Kyle has certainly been a tragic figure

Re: John Beck Era Begins
 

[quote=warriorzpath;849967]The real problem with Grossman is- he thinks he played well in all the games prior to the eagles game. Let's just hope Beck isn't as delusional. It isn't that Grossman played terrible, I just think if it wasn't for the rest of the team performing well- Grossmans performance wasn't good enough to win the game- with the exception of the giants game.[/quote]

This article by SJ echoes your sentiment. Grossman's inability to own up to his own deficiencies is more an indictment of his individual character than his lack of production on the field.

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/rex-grossmans-biggest-mistake-failure-to-recognize-his-own/2011/10/20/gIQAfN6x0L_story.html]Rex Grossman’s biggest mistake: Failure to recognize his own - The Washington Post[/url]

Re: John Beck Era Begins
 

I feel like people take one of two stances on this situation... Either Grossman sucks and Beck is going to be the answer. Or Grossman sucks and Beck sucks. Unless you are Johnny5dickey. I contend it is somewhere in between.

Grossman CAN make plays and can run the offense, but his propensity for throwing timely interceptions and making bad decisions that he ultimately won't admit to is his downfall, repeatedly, his whole career.

Beck hasn't blown anyone away with his body of work and people are skeptical he can do anything different here. What he does have going for him is he is more mobile than Rex. He is not as well known as Rex for making poor decisions and throwing into coverage when it's not there. He is a game manager. He most likely won't put us in a hard place by giving the game away with interceptions.

For these simple reasons alone I don't think he will light up the world but will be an effective manager of the offense and let the running game and defense win games. He is obviously not the long term solution for this team and will we in the very near future be drafting a quarterback. But given the cards that have been dealt to us this year he is the stronger likelihood to win us the pot.

Now what that pot might be is up for interpretation. An 8-8 record. A 10-6 record. A playoff spot. A playoff win. A Super Bowl. (lol) Remains to be seen. I just think he will be better than Rex because less negatives equal more positive.

Re: John Beck Era Begins
 

^ Nice calming post, feel like you should be a councilor of some sort!

Re: John Beck Era Begins
 

I don't think Rex sucks at all. I like him quite a bit. And that article is right - he is almost a very good QB. He was awesome in the game against the Giants, even with his turnover, and yeah, his comeback against he Cards was great.

But he is unequivocally prone to derping, and at the most inopportune times, and has an ass-headed way of not accepting responsibility for derping. Two of the INTs were on Davis but the other two were ALL on him. The INTs and the lost fumble against the Cowtards were ALL on him. He talks about his mistakes the same way he did in Chi-town - and unfortunately, we have a very good defense that doesn't always play a full four quarters of football so we can't expect it to keep us out of jams HE puts us in the way his old Bears D could.

If he didn't look exactly as he looked in Superbowl XLI and numerous times that season as he did derping the ball on the last drive against Dallas, or derping the ball the entire game against a horrible Rams D-line, or derping the ball against a vulnerable and beatable Iggles D racking up an astounding 4 INTs and making us look like the Keystone Cops, I would be against the move.

But it's still the same ol' Rex. He's thrown almost three times the picks in five games as Brady has in the same amount of games. He definitely needs a time-out.

Also, disagree with the author of that article and think if an epiphany was coming to him about how he plays, it already would have.

This is almost ten years of demonstrable, unequivocal behavior from Mr. Grossman. It simply is what it is. I don't know if this benching and embarrassment will do any good if getting the second chance and clean start itself failed to convict him to change.

And as far as Beck goes, I agree with the poster who said that inre: starting him, lesser known negatives definitely equals more positive.

Re: John Beck Era Begins
 

[quote=Jontrem;850037]^ Nice calming post, feel like you should be a councilor of some sort![/quote]

I'm a teacher. So kinda sorta..... And it's counselor. lol

Re: John Beck Era Begins
 

It's always possible to improve & there are the rare QBs that happen to be really late bloomers, e.g. K. Warner, Tommy Maddox. Aren't many of those guys though, usually after 4-5 years in NFL a QB is approaching his ceiling.

I don't get why some think Rex is so close to being good. Does he make some throws well? yes, he can make plays w/little to no pressure, but that's not a luxury anyone in the nfl has. Not only that he consistently throws the ball into traffic when not under much pressure, and his mobility is so limited in the pocket that he can't create better lanes when there's a little pressure. He's the same Rex he always has been.

Re: John Beck Era Begins
 

[quote=GMScud;849542]Yeah people talk about how he went to a SuperBowl... Remember how Lovie Smith had to reiterate just about every damn week that "Rex is our Quarterback" to the media?[B][I] That's called winning in spite of someone, not because of them.[/I][/B]

I don't think Rex is terrible overall as an NFL QB, but at this point I don't think he's starting material either. He's where he needs to be, now. Holding a clipboard. Hey, it could be worse. He can spend the next 5 or 6 years chilling on an NFL sideline making in the neighborhood of $1M/season.[/quote]

That is exactly the way I thought after watching even the early season victories this year with rex. Its like you read my mind. Nothing has changed whenit comes to rex grossman, a tiger cant change his stripes.

Re: John Beck Era Begins
 

This is a pretty good break down of Grossman's 5 INT's prior to the Eagles game. I really wish someone would do the Eagles game as well, but at this point the pitch fork mob doesn't care I'm sure. But out of the 5 previous INT's they can only blame Grossman for 1

[url=http://www.hogshaven.com/2011/10/3/2466552/its-been-coming-the-rex-grossman-breakdown-part-1-a-look-at-all-5]It's been coming, the Rex Grossman breakdown. Part 1 - A look at all 5 Interceptions. - Hogs Haven[/url]

[QUOTE]So overall we have 5 INTs. 2 of which weren't in anyway Rex's fault. 1 was a great play from the mike LB, 1 was an off-balanced throw after feeling pressure, which is something he can learn from and adjust. That just leaves 1 really bad play, which I still can't really help Grossman out with.
[/QUOTE]

Re: John Beck Era Begins
 

[quote=SBXVII;850110]This is a pretty good break down of Grossman's 5 INT's prior to the Eagles game. I really wish someone would do the Eagles game as well, but at this point the pitch fork mob doesn't care I'm sure. But out of the 5 previous INT's they can only blame Grossman for 1

[url=http://www.hogshaven.com/2011/10/3/2466552/its-been-coming-the-rex-grossman-breakdown-part-1-a-look-at-all-5]It's been coming, the Rex Grossman breakdown. Part 1 - A look at all 5 Interceptions. - Hogs Haven[/url][/quote]

Well, look I don't hate Grossman. And certainly supported him. That said, at this point in his career "throwing off balance passes while feeling pressure" isn't something he should still be "learning from"

Also, while I agree that not all the interceptions are his fault. That's unfortunately the reality of playing QB. You get the blame for all of them. Just like not all TD passes should be solely credited to him

Re: John Beck Era Begins
 

Defending Rex at this point is just laughable. Look at his career, his resume at this point tells you exactly what he is.

I don't hate the guy, but pretending he's on the cusp of greatness is just insane. He's an average QB, better suited as a backup at this point.