Re: The Big Rumor: If The Colts Take Luck, Then Manning Could Be...
 

[quote=GTripp0012;871105]When Balzer makes the argument that Bradford and Griffin were similar college passers, he's correct, but it's incomplete. That's like saying that Tebow and Bradford are really similar passers at the pro level. Which is also true, but it ignores all the differences between them. Or what makes one passable while the other wins fewer than 1/3 of his games.

If someone will offer the Rams a first round pick for Bradford, it would be [B]negligent[/B] of them to not trade him. It doesn't matter whether he goes and has great success elsewhere or not. The point is: you're never going to be able to get value on him later. And if you hire the right GM and coach, you won't be picking this high again for a long time.

And I totally get the argument that Griffin will fail if he's given the same amount of help as Bradford. I get that. I've made that argument about the Redskins and their QB situation. But again: if you're getting a top 40 pick for Sam Bradford [I]now[/I]? You take it and laugh all the way to the bank. Even if Bradford turns out okay elsewhere, you've still won the trade.[/quote]

I tend to agree and think a Bradford trade would make the most sense for the Rams and Redskins.

1) We wouldn't have to give up three 1sts and two 2nds to get Luck. We would have to give up most likely just one 1st.
2) St. Louis picks up an additional 1st and still gets the #1 prospect QB who is supposed to be so great in Luck.

Result: We would end up with a talented young QB with a lot of upside for minimal picks and the Rams would still have their franchise QB and gain a pick. WIN-WIN.

Re: The Big Rumor: If The Colts Take Luck, Then Manning Could Be...
 

I watched the game last night Almo Bowl. Great game. What I saw in RGIII was ATL Vick. Lots of running very little actual QBing. Based on that game only and I know that is stupid to do but I would pass on him. I don't see him working in this O.

Re: The Big Rumor: If The Colts Take Luck, Then Manning Could Be...
 

[quote=mredskins;871126]I watched the game last night Almo Bowl. Great game. What I saw in RGIII was ATL Vick. Lots of running very little actual QBing. Based on that game only and I know that is stupid to do but I would pass on him. I don't see him working in this O.[/quote]

i was at the game last night and that game is not the game to judge him, washington defense is horrible. i havent seen any other of his games this season. i tend to believe his high completion % is due to the type of offense they run. he threw a lot of screens and his wr we open the whole game. the huskies D plays wr's like the skins they play 10 yards off the wr. so i tend to think he is more of a project, but just look at cam newton so anything is possible.

Re: The Big Rumor: If The Colts Take Luck, Then Manning Could Be...
 

[quote=redskins5044;871128]i was at the game last night and that game is not the game to judge him, washington defense is horrible. i havent seen any other of his games this season. i tend to believe his high completion % is due to the type of offense they run. he threw a lot of screens and his wr we open the whole game. the huskies D plays wr's like the skins they play 10 yards off the wr. so i tend to think he is more of a project, but just look at cam newton so anything is possible.[/quote]


Price on the other hand made my mouth water!

Re: The Big Rumor: If The Colts Take Luck, Then Manning Could Be...
 

[quote=mredskins;871126]I watched the game last night Almo Bowl. Great game. What I saw in RGIII was ATL Vick. Lots of running very little actual QBing. Based on that game only and I know that is stupid to do but I would pass on him. I don't see him working in this O.[/quote]

Griffin will not work in this offense [B]as it is currently constructed and set up for Rex Grossman[/B] - - or John Beck for that matter. If the Skins were to acquire Griffin, there would have to be changes made in the system by the coaches - - lots more rollouts; moving the pocket more than twice a game; QB option run plays; spread formations; shotgun formations.

If the coaches are not willing to make those changes, then they must NOT take Griffin even if he is available because his game does not match Rex Grosmman's game even a little bit and this offense is designed and called for a Rex Grossman-type QB.

When Vick went to Philly, Andy Reid and Marty Mornhinweig changed the way Vick played in the pocket [B]PLUS[/B] the coaches changed the way they spread the field on offense and the way they moved the QB around. Both player and coach made changes; that is why it worked there; that is the way it would have to work here.

Re: The Big Rumor: If The Colts Take Luck, Then Manning Could Be...
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;871237]If the coaches are not willing to make those changes, then they must NOT take Griffin even if he is available because his game does not match Rex Grosmman's game even a little bit and this offense is designed and called for a Rex Grossman-type QB.[/quote]I think Robert Griffin could play this offensive system at least as well as Rex Grossman could.

But I agree with you, if the Redskins aren't going to change the focus of their offensive limitations and attack, they shouldn't trade up in the draft to get Robert Griffin. There will be system guys to be had all the way through the second round; maybe beyond, and definitely in free agency.

Re: The Big Rumor: If The Colts Take Luck, Then Manning Could Be...
 

Sanchez sucks period. Most commentators out there have even said he has regressed some this season. Pick a young guy from a mid level NCAA Div I school that faced superior competition at least for half of the season and performed well. Sanchez wasn't really that good at USC, but since the big push to draw latinos into the NFL he became their golden boy. Only trouble was he really wasn't so hot. Thinking a mediocre QB can come in here and work wonders for us is moronic. We all thought Ramsey sucked and loved when we got JC, he was mediocre, and we got McNabb, he was also mediocre and we got Grossman as our backup, now starter who has potential, but still sucks. When will the lunacy end? Do you really think Sanchez is all that? Draft a kid with some great potential and get some big beef up front to protect him. Andrew Luck behind a shitty line will suck. Ryan Tannehill or even a Dan Persa will kick ass with a great line. You give up 3-4 picks for Luck and you will postpone the building up of a great O line, and get nothing much in return. And that is if Luck even is indeed NFL caliber!!

Re: The Big Rumor: If The Colts Take Luck, Then Manning Could Be...
 

I don't know if I would go as far as to say that Sanchez "sucks period" or that he has his job because the NFL wants to draw attention from Latinos.

I do think that he is far less capable as a QB than he is made out to be every time the Jets win a game. But remember, he is not the guy who heaps that kind of syrup on himself; it's the media mavens that do that.

Look, Sanchez is no longer a rookie QB. When he makes boneheaded plays, that excuse is out the window. Against the Giants, he took a sack in the end zone that was inexcusable; he had a perfectly open way to step out of the end zone - - and maybe even dump the ball for an incompletion? - - before the sack posse arrived. But he didnt'...

Mark Sanchez - - despite the protestations of his coach Rex Ryan - - is not nearly the best QB in the league and is probably not in the Top 20 at the moment. The question facing the Jets and any other GMs who might consider trading for him is this:
[INDENT]Has he reached - - or is he near - - his potential?[/INDENT]
If you believe the answer is "Yes", then you would not trade a bologna sandwich for him. If you think the answer is "No", you should consider trading for him because he has some learning curve advantage over a kid coming directly out of college.

Personally, I think he has some small room for improvement but I do not think he will ever be an elite QB in the NFL.

Re: The Big Rumor: If The Colts Take Luck, Then Manning Could Be...
 

I don't see the logic in Manning with the Jets. The Jets are not a QB away from SB contention. That defense is inconsistent and offensively they're not built the way Manning ran the Colts all these years i.e. regular deep shots and overall emphasis on a vertical attack. Neither Holmes nor Plaxico are burners.

Manning will go to the Niners if he leaves Indy. The Niners are a QB away from a couple/few SBs and the only reason Manning will play longer is to add SB rings. I think it's very interesting nobody in Indy has given the fans assurance that if healthy Manning WILL be the starter in 2012. My guess is both parties are accepting this divorce. It's a business. Indy wants their QB for the next decade and Manning wants SBs before he retires. Indy isn't a QB away from the SB...San Fran is.

Re: The Big Rumor: If The Colts Take Luck, Then Manning Could Be...
 

^ I have actually been pretty suprised about the talk of P.Manning being traded to play football elsewhere, because I thought after his neck surgery I read somewhere that basically P.Manning has a disease that has been passed down through genes and his brother has the same disease.

After having the surgery it is completely risky for him to play because if he gets hit the wrong way he could be paralized. To which is why he has not been seen on the field yet. What ever happened to that? It sounded like he would not be able to play ... ever in the future for fear of getting hit wrong and now all this talk of him being traded.

I just don't see him playing ball at all. After hearing about his condition I was 100% sure he would probably have to take on a coaching job or leave football all together.

Re: The Big Rumor: If The Colts Take Luck, Then Manning Could Be...
 

If there's chance of paralysis I'm also sure he retires. He's going to add more SB rings as a coach anyway. Hell...I'd taking Manning as a rookie HC next year over Mike any day of the week.

Re: The Big Rumor: If The Colts Take Luck, Then Manning Could Be...
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;871275]Sanchez sucks period. Most commentators out there have even said he has regressed some this season. Pick a young guy from a mid level NCAA Div I school that faced superior competition at least for half of the season and performed well. Sanchez wasn't really that good at USC, but since the big push to draw latinos into the NFL he became their golden boy. Only trouble was he really wasn't so hot. Thinking a mediocre QB can come in here and work wonders for us is moronic. We all thought Ramsey sucked and loved when we got JC, he was mediocre, and we got McNabb, he was also mediocre and we got Grossman as our backup, now starter who has potential, but still sucks. When will the lunacy end? Do you really think Sanchez is all that? Draft a kid with some great potential and get some big beef up front to protect him. Andrew Luck behind a shitty line will suck. Ryan Tannehill or even a Dan Persa will kick ass with a great line. You give up 3-4 picks for Luck and you will postpone the building up of a great O line, and get nothing much in return. And that is if Luck even is indeed NFL caliber!![/quote]

I think your last point is especially important. We really don't know if Luck or any of these QB prospects are NFL caliber players. Any or all of them could be busts as NFL QB's. Not a good idea to trade up to get any of them. We have heard Shanahan admit that Redskin depth is really lacking. We traded down last year just to get some bodies who could play professional football. We still need bodies at sevearal positions. I can't see a trade up because it works against our effort to (re)build the team. A better option for Redskins is to sign Hoyer/Quinn/Henne as FA QB and throw him into the mix with Grossman. Take our draft picks as they come and continue building the team. Tannehill would be an excellent draft option for us! He could spend the year learning the offense while management fills more of the holes left by previous indiscretions in player personnel decisions.

Re: The Big Rumor: If The Colts Take Luck, Then Manning Could Be...
 

[quote=The Goat;871376]If there's chance of paralysis I'm also sure he retires. He's going to add more SB rings as a coach anyway. Hell...I'd taking Manning as a rookie HC next year over Mike any day of the week.[/quote]

I don't think I'd replace MS, but I would replace the QB coach and give P.Manning a shot. Heck who knows he might get taken as a OC in the future. But baby steps. I don't forsee him getting a HCing job with out having any coaching experience. His knoweledge would be invaluable to the team.

Re: The Big Rumor: If The Colts Take Luck, Then Manning Could Be...
 

[quote=SBXVII;871374]^ I have actually been pretty suprised about the talk of P.Manning being traded to play football elsewhere, because I thought after his neck surgery I read somewhere that basically P.Manning has a disease that has been passed down through genes and his brother has the same disease.

After having the surgery it is completely risky for him to play because if he gets hit the wrong way he could be paralized. To which is why he has not been seen on the field yet. What ever happened to that? It sounded like he would not be able to play ... ever in the future for fear of getting hit wrong and now all this talk of him being traded.

I just don't see him playing ball at all. After hearing about his condition I was 100% sure he would probably have to take on a coaching job or leave football all together.[/quote]

This is still the story we are being given. Peyton was tested for the same condition, spinal stenosis, that his brother Cooper had, which ended his career as a college wide receiver. The doctors could not say for sure whether or not Peyton's condition was genetic. But they didn't deny it.

The Colts know that Manning will never be physically right. He is too much of a risk to put on the field, so i believe the trade is in part just to appease Manning who is still expressing a desire to play.

I think behind the scenes, the Colts have said to Peyton "Peyton we want you to retire, it is not worth it to us to see you paralyzed on the field. You will always be a Colt and there will always be a job for you here"

I believe he could have retorted saying he felt he could still play, so the Colts told him if he was insistant on playing, they would trade him and his contract to any team that was willing to play the price, knowing full well that Peyton probably won't pass the team physical, which as far as I know would void out any payment / salary, if he is physically unable to play.

He's a smart guy, i'm surprised kind of that he is willing to play at only 60 or 70% health. I know his mind is better than any other QB out there, but i'm shocked he is trying to return to the game when he knows he physically isn't there anymore.

Re: The Big Rumor: If The Colts Take Luck, Then Manning Could Be...
 

Rumor coming out of Indy that RG3 might be the Colts man if they pick at number #2.

Re: The Big Rumor: If The Colts Take Luck, Then Manning Could Be...
 

[quote=12thMan;871456]Rumor coming out of Indy that RG3 might be the Colts man if they pick at number #2.[/quote]

Could be a smoke screen to get a trade offer...

Re: The Big Rumor: If The Colts Take Luck, Then Manning Could Be...
 

Well at this rate, should the Jags win, Colts ARE getting Luck.

Re: The Big Rumor: If The Colts Take Luck, Then Manning Could Be...
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;871572]Well at this rate, should the Jags win, Colts ARE getting Luck.[/quote]

Does Indy have a weaker strength of schedule? If they both have two wins, and St. Louis has a weaker strength of schedule, they could still pick first.

Re: The Big Rumor: If The Colts Take Luck, Then Manning Could Be...
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;871572]Well at this rate, should the Jags win, Colts ARE getting Luck.[/quote]

Good. We had little chance of getting him anyway and this way he stays out of the NFC.

[QUOTE=CultBrennan59;871572]Well at this rate, should the Jags win, Colts ARE getting Luck.[/QUOTE]

Damn jags. Screw the AFC South.

Re: The Big Rumor: If The Colts Take Luck, Then Manning Could Be...
 

[quote=SkinzWin;871575]Does Indy have a weaker strength of schedule? If they both have two wins, and St. Louis has a weaker strength of schedule, they could still pick first.[/quote]

I answered my own question. Should both Indianapolis and St. Louis lose today here is how their strength of schedules stack up.

Through week 16:

Indianapolis Colts 128-112-0 .533

St. Louis Rams 141-99-0 .588

Based on the strength of schedules, Indy would have the #1 overall pick.... :(

Re: The Big Rumor: If The Colts Take Luck, Then Manning Could Be...
 

So I think we can stop talking about Luck...But that probably means we can start talking about Matt Flynn

Re: The Big Rumor: If The Colts Take Luck, Then Manning Could Be...
 

with all the quarterbacks available this year either between the draft or free agency, if we end up with mark sanchez i will lose my mind.

just think about the logic behind it.

the jets drafted him early in the first and he is still young.
they would be letting him go for a 35 year old quarterback coming off a major injury, what the hell does that tell you about him.

my dream scenario this year would be for the colts to take luck and release manning.

we sign manning as a free agent trade back once or twice to acquire more picks like we did last year and draft tannehill to groom under manning

Re: The Big Rumor: If The Colts Take Luck, Then Manning Could Be...
 

The Sanchez rumor should've stayed under the rock where it came from.

Re: The Big Rumor: If The Colts Take Luck, Then Manning Could Be...
 

[quote=diehard;872111]The Sanchez rumor should've stayed under the rock where it came from.[/quote]

I agree. Damn that Smootsmack for doing what we all asked him to do and give us a window into the mind of the Redskins front office. Screw him! /sarcasm

Sanchez is now considered a bust

Re: The Big Rumor: If The Colts Take Luck, Then Manning Could Be...
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;872116]Sanchez is now considered a bust[/quote]

If he's consider a bust I would offer a 5th or 4th and take my chances with him, I bet he can change things around with Kyle. There's a reason Shottenheimer is going to get whacked in NY, he sucks!!

Re: The Big Rumor: If The Colts Take Luck, Then Manning Could Be...
 

Just heard this morning that Peyton Manning has stated he will ask for a trade if the Colts draft Andrew Luck. So i guess it is official. Let the Manning watch begin. Assuming he ends up being able to physically play again, where is his most likely destination?

I personally feel that Washington, Miami, New York, and San Fran are very likely destinations. Even as Redskins fans, we have to at least consider that Snyder has thought about what it would take to get Manning.

There are a lot of positives for him here if he can play one or two more years. The skins could become instant superbowl contenders while still letting a young QB learn from the games best.

Re: The Big Rumor: If The Colts Take Luck, Then Manning Could Be...
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;872121]Just heard this morning that Peyton Manning has stated he will ask for a trade if the Colts draft Andrew Luck. So i guess it is official. Let the Manning watch begin. Assuming he ends up being able to physically play again, where is his most likely destination?

I personally feel that Washington, Miami, New York, and San Fran are very likely destinations. Even as Redskins fans, we have to at least consider that Snyder has thought about what it would take to get Manning.

There are a lot of positives for him here if he can play one or two more years. The skins could become instant superbowl contenders while still letting a young QB learn from the games best.[/quote]

It's not worth it. We'd have to give up too much to get him. It'll only take one good hit to end his career too. It's not worth the risk. Why end the rebuild a third of the way through completion?

Re: The Big Rumor: If The Colts Take Luck, Then Manning Could Be...
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;872121]Just heard this morning that Peyton Manning has stated he will ask for a trade if the Colts draft Andrew Luck. So i guess it is official. Let the Manning watch begin. Assuming he ends up being able to physically play again, where is his most likely destination?

I personally feel that Washington, Miami, New York, and San Fran are very likely destinations. Even as Redskins fans, we have to at least consider that Snyder has thought about what it would take to get Manning.

There are a lot of positives for him here if he can play one or two more years. The skins could become instant superbowl contenders while still letting a young QB learn from the games best.[/quote]

There's no way Manning and Luck co-exist in Indy. Nothing personal between them but there's no way Luck is willing to sit or Manning willing to share. This is going to get really interesting mid-March because Manning won't renegotiate the $28 million due to him without an assurance they won't draft Luck and Luck will force a trade if Manning is still on the roster come draft day.

As for the Redskins, I'm 100% opposed to Manning suiting up for us.

Re: The Big Rumor: If The Colts Take Luck, Then Manning Could Be...
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;872119]If he's consider a bust I would offer a 5th or 4th and take my chances with him, I bet he can change things around with Kyle. There's a reason Shottenheimer is going to get whacked in NY, he sucks!![/quote]

I would offer a 5th or a 4th for him not to come here! I'm going to say it now. I would rather have Rex Grossman.

Re: The Big Rumor: If The Colts Take Luck, Then Manning Could Be...
 

[quote=SkinzWin;872171]I would offer a 5th or a 4th for him not to come here! I'm going to say it now. I would rather have Rex Grossman.[/quote]

Grossman flat out sucks, Sanchez at least took his team to the playoffs his first 2 years. Yes, hee had a shitty year this year, he has improved every year and Holmes and Burress didn't help his cause nor did Shottenheimer who is going to get fired in NY for a reason.

Re: The Big Rumor: If The Colts Take Luck, Then Manning Could Be...
 

[quote=mbedner3420;872112]I agree. Damn that Smootsmack for doing what we all asked him to do and give us a window into the mind of the Redskins front office. Screw him! /sarcasm[/quote]

Damn him!!!

Oh wait

My gut says we're not going to make a serious bid for Sanchez, but are going to offer our 6th or 7th for Clausen.

Re: The Big Rumor: If The Colts Take Luck, Then Manning Could Be...
 

[quote=SmootSmack;872181]Damn him!!!

Oh wait

My gut says we're not going to make a serious bid for Sanchez, but are going to offer our 6th or 7th for [B]Clausen[/B].[/quote]

Who?

Re: The Big Rumor: If The Colts Take Luck, Then Manning Could Be...
 

[quote=SmootSmack;872181]Damn him!!!

Oh wait

My gut says we're not going to make a serious bid for Sanchez, but are going to offer our 6th or 7th for Clausen.[/quote]

a seventh rounder for Clausen? Even that seems too high. I hope we only use him as a backup to whoever we pick in the draft... We do intend to still draft a top (or second) teir QB, right?

Re: The Big Rumor: If The Colts Take Luck, Then Manning Could Be...
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;871702]So I think we can stop talking about Luck...But that probably means we can start talking about Matt Flynn[/quote]

or the any number of other college QB's declaring other then Luck and RGiii. Flynn is not the only QB left.

Re: The Big Rumor: If The Colts Take Luck, Then Manning Could Be...
 

LMAO Jimmy Clausen?? If the skins go into camp with Clausen and Rex fighting for the job I won't watch 2012

Re: The Big Rumor: If The Colts Take Luck, Then Manning Could Be...
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;872121]Just heard this morning that Peyton Manning has stated he will ask for a trade if the Colts draft Andrew Luck. So i guess it is official. Let the Manning watch begin. Assuming he ends up being able to physically play again, where is his most likely destination?

I personally feel that Washington, Miami, New York, and San Fran are very likely destinations. Even as Redskins fans, we have to at least consider that Snyder has thought about what it would take to get Manning.

[B]There are a lot of positives for him here if he can play one or two more years.[/B] The skins could become instant superbowl contenders while still letting a young QB learn from the games best.[/quote]

The problem is what ever happened to the statement that P.Manning takes a hit the wrong way he might be paralized? that came from somewhere... his doctor, the team, the media. How much truth was in that statement?

I guess I'm saying will P.Manning even be able to play? Will a doctor clear him to play? trust me I'd love to have his brain here with the Skins as either a QB or coach but after the early reports we have not heard anything about where his status is and it might be he doesn't get cleared and he has to hang up the cleats. So if we could get him cheap then I hope the Skins pick him up but I'd bet the Colts would want to get something for him and will keep his status a secret just to get a reward.

Can the coaching change for the Skins be that they are firing the QB coach and bringing in P.Manning as our QB coach? I'd be thrilled.

Re: The Big Rumor: If The Colts Take Luck, Then Manning Could Be...
 

[quote=SmootSmack;872181]Damn him!!!

Oh wait

My gut says we're not going to make a serious bid for Sanchez, but are going to offer our 6th or 7th for Clausen.[/quote]

You might need to invest in some pepto bismol to relieve that terrible pain in your gut!

Re: The Big Rumor: If The Colts Take Luck, Then Manning Could Be...
 

[quote=SBXVII;872200]The problem is what ever happened to the statement that P.Manning takes a hit the wrong way he might be paralized? that came from somewhere... his doctor, the team, the media. How much truth was in that statement?

I guess I'm saying will P.Manning even be able to play? Will a doctor clear him to play? trust me I'd love to have his brain here with the Skins as either a QB or coach but after the early reports we have not heard anything about where his status is and it might be he doesn't get cleared and he has to hang up the cleats. So if we could get him cheap then I hope the Skins pick him up but I'd bet the Colts would want to get something for him and will keep his status a secret just to get a reward.

Can the coaching change for the Skins be that they are firing the QB coach and bringing in P.Manning as our QB coach? I'd be thrilled.[/quote]

Yes i agree with you on all points. I firmly 100% believe that Peyton will never, ever, be full health again. I also beleive that he will attempt a comeback, but it will end badly, with him either not passing a team physical, or him getting out on the field and just looking like a shell of what he was. Worst case scenario is that he suffers another neck injury.

My statement earlier was saying that "IF", and it's a big IF. IF Peyton is able to physically play and be what he was before, he would be huge here to hold us down at QB for a year or so until a young gun QB is ready to take over.

I personally want to see Peyton go the safe route and go into coaching, but the media pressure with this thing right now is unbelievable. I never even beleived we would ever be talking about the Colts trading Manning, but knowing the Redskins, and knowing Snyder, it at least has to be mentioned that he could end up here.