Re: Redskins Vs Chargers Postgame
 

[quote=The Goat;1038762]Indeed, and why he gets game ball IMO. You could also argue he'd be on track for more like 1500 yards, 8 TD and 120 catches if RG had been in top form from beginning of the season. On the other hand Peter Boy has dropped some catchable balls too, so his stats are probably about where he'd end up.

It'll be his first season breaking 1000 yards and earning his contract, that's all I'm saying.[/quote]

I think the Redskins signed him because they expected him to [U]become[/U] a #1 receiver in their offense - not necessarily because he was already there as a #1 when they signed him.

He may actually have been overpaid at first because that is the way of free agency - you have to overpay to get the better players.

Re: Redskins Vs Chargers Postgame
 

[quote=Bucket;1038560]Eddie Royal set a pick on Josh Wilson so the slant underneath was uncovered. That is what the PI was called for. The Refs just got the number wrong[/quote]Thought that too...but the all-22 shows no contact whatsoever. Blown call.

Re: Redskins Vs Chargers Postgame
 

[quote=GTripp0012;1038787]Thought that too...but the all-22 shows no contact whatsoever. Blown call.[/quote]

Watched it again. Saw a pick.

Re: Redskins Vs Chargers Postgame
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1038701]He's been pretty damned good since the bye week of last year. I think we should just give him one year deals because he seems to play better this way. I want to say he's bargain at his current contract, but he has a lot of ground to make up for when he was complete crap yet getting top position salary. :silly:[/quote]Franchise tender ballpark is about $10 million, right?

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[quote=Bucket;1038789]Watched it again. Saw a pick.[/quote]Oh.

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Hankerson was really good in this game. He got open on the 3rd & 4 at the end of this game too.

The Chargers defense is brutal though.

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[quote=GTripp0012;1038790]Franchise tender ballpark is about $10 million, right?[/quote]

why would you franchise him? Hall wants to be here, we have leverage.

Re: Redskins Vs Chargers Postgame
 

[quote=Chico23231;1038756]Moss, Morgan and Robinson are done, they are gone after this season. But lets crush are #1 guy who brings it every week. It makes no sense. Hank is our possision guy, but we gotta add 3 receivers this offseason. Major need imo.[/quote]Garcon is now a guy who brings it every week? Maybe he just showed up at the wrong place last week.

He was the most dependable receiving target in this game (Saved RG3's bacon twice), and I think that's why he deserves a game ball for that performance, but I think he needs to play like this more often (obviously not 7/172, but 5/80 pretty much every week). When you are the highest paid player on the team, I don't think that's too much to ask.

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[quote=Chico23231;1038795]why would you franchise him? Hall wants to be here, we have leverage.[/quote]I wouldn't necessarily franchise him, but he's playing his way into it.

Re: Redskins Vs Chargers Postgame
 

[quote=GTripp0012;1038796]Garcon is now a guy who brings it every week? Maybe he just showed up at the wrong place last week.

He was the most dependable receiving target in this game (Saved RG3's bacon twice), and I think that's why he deserves a game ball for that performance, but I think he needs to play like this more often (obviously not 7/172, but 5/80 pretty much every week). When you are the highest paid player on the team, I don't think that's too much to ask.[/quote]

When the QB is struggling, that makes it pretty difficult. And RG3 has struggled in the passing game more often than not this year. When RG3 has been on, so has Pierre for the most part. Plus he does bring it in the run game as well. Better than most WR's in that aspect. Our run game would not be as good without WR's blocking, and he is willing to do that.

Re: Redskins Vs Chargers Postgame
 

[quote=GTripp0012;1038796]Garcon is now a guy who brings it every week? Maybe he just showed up at the wrong place last week.

He was the most dependable receiving target in this game (Saved RG3's bacon twice), and I think that's why he deserves a game ball for that performance, but I think he needs to play like this more often (obviously not 7/172, but 5/80 pretty much every week). When you are the highest paid player on the team, I don't think that's too much to ask.[/quote]

I think Garcon brings it every week, but the passing game in general isnt. Kyle, RG3, lack of other receivers and the biggest issue, Oline, have had problems. I think Garcon is that reciever who could be 100 yards receiving per game.

And no way would I franchise Hall, too likely to fall back into old habits. I want him back, but not at that price tag. Dont know if i give crazy money to Talib though and I think that's where we are heading...

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[quote=Skinzman;1038801]When the QB is struggling, that makes it pretty difficult. And RG3 has struggled in the passing game more often than not this year. When RG3 has been on, so has Pierre for the most part. Plus he does bring it in the run game as well. Better than most WR's in that aspect. Our run game would not be as good without WR's blocking, and he is willing to do that.[/quote]Garcon is an excellent blocker and really helps a lot in our run schemes.

But you don't think Garcon shoulders any blame whatsoever for RG3's struggles? I don't agree with that.

Garcon is clearly one of the two best receivers on this team and needs to be on the field 80% or more of offensive snaps. But I also think that to some degree, the percentage of offense that relies on Garcon is something that needs to be addressed in the offseason.

I think the reality of the situation is that there are a numbers of factors holding back the passing offense: pass protection, Griffin's development, and inconsistent receiver play.

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[quote=Chico23231;1038804]I think Garcon brings it every week, but the passing game in general isnt. Kyle, RG3, lack of other receivers and the biggest issue, Oline, have had problems. I think Garcon is that reciever who could be 100 yards receiving per game.

And no way would I franchise Hall, too likely to fall back into old habits. I want him back, but not at that price tag. Dont know if i give crazy money to Talib though and I think that's where we are heading...[/quote]I'm probably not giving Bruce Allen enough credit to get Hall extended at a reasonable contract value, but I can't think of a compelling reason to offer a multi-year contract. Someone else is going to, however.

Garcon has brought it a total of twice this year. We've relied on him to be a no. 1 guy every time we take the field. The difference in how our offense performs when Garcon is winning his matchup vs how it performs when he isn't is staggering.

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Garcon is a good receiver, but sometimes he relies too much on longer routes to get open.

Talent is a big issue on this team, and will be for at least the rest of this season.

Still glad Griffin is being forced to do things he isn't comfortable with. Vick never learned to become a pocket passer.

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[quote=GTripp0012;1038807]I'm probably not giving Bruce Allen enough credit to get Hall extended at a reasonable contract value, but I can't think of a compelling reason to offer a multi-year contract. Someone else is going to, however.

Garcon has brought it a total of twice this year. We've relied on him to be a no. 1 guy every time we take the field. The difference in how our offense performs when Garcon is winning his matchup vs how it performs when he isn't is staggering.[/quote]

Ive listed out the problems of the passing game, I dont look at Garcon performance and say he is a contributing factor in the failure of it. Oline, erractic RG3, etc... Look, next year I have Hankerson and Garcon on the field at receiver, no one else, thats a problem for the passing game as well.

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[quote=GTripp0012;1038805]Garcon is an excellent blocker and really helps a lot in our run schemes.

But you don't think Garcon shoulders any blame whatsoever for RG3's struggles? I don't agree with that.

Garcon is clearly one of the two best receivers on this team and needs to be on the field 80% or more of offensive snaps. But I also think that to some degree, the percentage of offense that relies on Garcon is something that needs to be addressed in the offseason.

I think the reality of the situation is that there are a numbers of factors holding back the passing offense: pass protection, Griffin's development, and inconsistent receiver play.[/quote]

Why would I blame Garcon for RG3's struggles? A lot of the time this season, RG3 has flat out missed open receivers (most notably, the Cowboys and Broncos games). Missing the offseason and preseason has a lot to do with that. I think if he can get in that offseason work, he will be much better. Im not saying Garcon hasnt had a bad game, but he is not the problem of this offense. When RG3 does not lock on one receiver, the passing game goes much better, I fail to see that as Garcons fault. There is no one to blame for that other than RG3 and his development, which was stunted for a second year QB to miss that time.

As for the Percentage of the offense that relies on Garcon. I agree there. Moss has been dropping almost everything coming his way this year. Robinson is a one trick pony, although that one trick can open up the intermediate stuff if used better. Hankerson is playing better, but has the talent to be better than he has been. Hankersons catch radius is tiny compared to his size. Morgan, sad to say, is a blocker and a number 3 at best. If anyones contract is to be complained about, it is Morgans. He does not produce like a 6 mil per year WR should. He will be gone anyways after the year unless he comes back at a much reduced price. The passing game is primarily Garcon and Reed, with Hankerson and Helu adding in a bit.

To many people want to say number 1 receiver, then compare him to Calvin Johnson. Garcon is not Calvin Johnson, but no one should expect that anyways, he is a freak of nature that can out jump triple teams. He also makes more than double what Garcon does. But Garcon has also produced for this team when he was given that opportunity, and is a better signing than a fair amount of WR's (Mike Wallace anyone?)

Re: Redskins Vs Chargers Postgame
 

[quote=Chico23231;1038810]Ive listed out the problems of the passing game, I dont look at Garcon performance and say he is a contributing factor in the failure of it. Oline, erractic RG3, etc... Look, next year I have Hankerson and Garcon on the field at receiver, no one else, thats a problem for the passing game as well.[/quote]Let's agree on this: moar Jordan Reed, plz.

I agree that Hankerson and Garcon are the only two Skins receivers likely to be back next year, although Aldrick has the next 8 games to earn his spot on next year's team. Griffin keeps throwing to Aldrick when he's on the field, fwiw.

Reeds versatility limits the need to go out and acquire someone who is specifically a "possession" type. He's getting it done on third down.

Re: Redskins Vs Chargers Postgame
 

[quote=GTripp0012;1038796]Garcon is now a guy who brings it every week? Maybe he just showed up at the wrong place last week.

He was the most dependable receiving target in this game (Saved RG3's bacon twice), and I think that's why he deserves a game ball for that performance, [B]but I think he needs to play like this more often (obviously not 7/172, but 5/80 pretty much every week).[/B] When you are the highest paid player on the team, I don't think that's too much to ask.[/quote]

Prior to the SD game he was averaging 6.7 catches per game and 73 yds per game. So he's kind of right there already.

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It sucks that Morgan didn't work out and Moss aged so quickly, or at least worked his way out of the good graces of the offense so quickly. Going into this season I thought we had a nice well rounded WR corp, but it looks limited and weak now. Garcon and Hank are keepers for sure. The rest haven't produced enough to justify anything.

I think it's a major concern, because we're so short on high draft picks and Mike has struggled to find talent in the mid to lower rounds outside RB and Riley at LB. Our oline drafting has been abysmal especially, and that group needs major reinforcements.

IMO the mismanagement of the roster/draft in his first two years is coming around to haunt us now more than ever, but I doubt most see it that way.

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[quote=Mattyk;1038815]Prior to the SD game he was averaging 6.7 catches per game and 73 yds per game. So he's kind of right there already.[/quote]Which means he's averaging 10.9 yards per catch. Which is a problem.

How much of a problem is debatable. Some would call that small potatoes. But if RG3 was doing anywhere near as well as he was doing at this time last year (when Garcon was inactive), there wouldn't be anything to debate.

Re: Redskins Vs Chargers Postgame
 

[quote=Skinzman;1038812]Why would I blame Garcon for RG3's struggles? A lot of the time this season, RG3 has flat out missed open receivers (most notably, the Cowboys and Broncos games). Missing the offseason and preseason has a lot to do with that. I think if he can get in that offseason work, he will be much better. Im not saying Garcon hasnt had a bad game, but he is not the problem of this offense. When RG3 does not lock on one receiver, the passing game goes much better, I fail to see that as Garcons fault. There is no one to blame for that other than RG3 and his development, which was stunted for a second year QB to miss that time.

As for the Percentage of the offense that relies on Garcon. I agree there. Moss has been dropping almost everything coming his way this year. Robinson is a one trick pony, although that one trick can open up the intermediate stuff if used better. Hankerson is playing better, but has the talent to be better than he has been. Hankersons catch radius is tiny compared to his size. Morgan, sad to say, is a blocker and a number 3 at best. If anyones contract is to be complained about, it is Morgans. He does not produce like a 6 mil per year WR should. He will be gone anyways after the year unless he comes back at a much reduced price. The passing game is primarily Garcon and Reed, with Hankerson and Helu adding in a bit.

To many people want to say number 1 receiver, then compare him to Calvin Johnson. Garcon is not Calvin Johnson, but no one should expect that anyways, he is a freak of nature that can out jump triple teams. He also makes more than double what Garcon does. But Garcon has also produced for this team when he was given that opportunity, and is a better signing than a fair amount of WR's (Mike Wallace anyone?)[/quote]I am not so much blaming Garcon for the amount of times he gets thrown the football. That's due to a lack of other options. I am just pointing out he did more with his opportunity last year.

If he has more games like he did against GB and SD, he will be in a much better position to point out how much his teammates are struggling in the passing game. But after the Denver game, that was a big, giant "We."

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[quote=The Goat;1038819]IMO the mismanagement of the roster/draft in his first two years is coming around to haunt us now more than ever, but I doubt most see it that way.[/quote]Pretty much.

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[quote=The Goat;1038819]It sucks that Morgan didn't work out and Moss aged so quickly, or at least worked his way out of the good graces of the offense so quickly. Going into this season I thought we had a nice well rounded WR corp, but it looks limited and weak now. Garcon and Hank are keepers for sure. The rest haven't produced enough to justify anything.

I think it's a major concern, because we're so short on high draft picks and Mike has struggled to find talent in the mid to lower rounds outside RB and Riley at LB. Our oline drafting has been abysmal especially, and that group needs major reinforcements.

[B]IMO the mismanagement of the roster/draft in his first two years is coming around to haunt us now more than ever, but I doubt most see it that way.[/B][/quote]

Not sure how you can say that about his first draft. There was no 3 and 5. 1 was Trent, 4 was Perry Riley. And he turned the screwed up 2nd that was traded for McNabb into the pick that was used for Alfred Morris (McNabb was absolutely a mistake though).

His second draft kind of sucks. It got us Kerrigan, and for as much as you love Helu, he came in that draft in the 4th. Jenkins (2) and Hankerson (3) are under performing for their draft positions imo. Not sure how much more they will progress. Several others from that draft are still on the team, but dont do much. I expect all but Paul to not be here next year. Not exactly sure what you were expecting with all the 6th and 7th's though. Those dont usually get you much.

LeRibeus last year, imo, was his biggest mistake. Still cant figure that one out. Didnt like it then and dont like it now. He could of been had in the 5th, maybe later.

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I think Bowen has been hampered the past two games with that torn ligament in his knee. Which is why he hasn't had the pass rush we are used to him posting.

The combo of Garcon and Reed will only get better and better. Reed is already the new media darling for TE, almost every "expert" has him as our next superstar offensive player outside of griff

[QUOTE=skinsfaninok;1038852]The combo of Garcon and Reed will only get better and better. Reed is already the new media darling for TE, almost every "expert" has him as our next superstar offensive player outside of griff[/QUOTE]

.....and Almo. ;)

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[quote=Skinzman;1038833]Not sure how you can say that about his first draft. There was no 3 and 5. 1 was Trent, 4 was Perry Riley. And he turned the screwed up 2nd that was traded for McNabb into the pick that was used for Alfred Morris (McNabb was absolutely a mistake though).

His second draft kind of sucks. It got us Kerrigan, and for as much as you love Helu, he came in that draft in the 4th. Jenkins (2) and Hankerson (3) are under performing for their draft positions imo. Not sure how much more they will progress. Several others from that draft are still on the team, but dont do much. I expect all but Paul to not be here next year. Not exactly sure what you were expecting with all the 6th and 7th's though. Those dont usually get you much.

LeRibeus last year, imo, was his biggest mistake. Still cant figure that one out. Didnt like it then and dont like it now. He could of been had in the 5th, maybe later.[/quote]

Agree on first draft, as long as you don't factor possible trades. Mike did great as a GM that year. Not so much as a coach. You mentioned Mcnabb already. But he also forced a 4-3 defensive roster into a 3-4 overnight, when the defense was better best unit on the team and not enough ammo to make it happen. We went from an above avg D (factoring out Zorns last few games) to worst in the league in one year. That takes a lot of scheming lol!!! It never looked like Haynesworth was part of Mikes plan. Ok. Not my intuition but ok. So you negotiate a trade for the draft. After all were talking about defensive MVP from two years ago. You have Andre carter and orakpo as deadly DE's in a 4-3. Carter went to NE and played lights out till basically a career ending injury, but that can happen to anyone and AC was solid through his career otherwise. Orakpo is still out of position IMO. Same could be said of Kerrigan.

Mike was actually very good add maximizing his players value for trade purposes certain times in the past. I don't think he's had any success with it here even when opportunities were there.

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[quote=skinsfaninok;1038852]The combo of Garcon and Reed will only get better and better. Reed is already the new media darling for TE, almost every "expert" has him as our next superstar offensive player outside of griff[/quote]

Whats awesome about Reed is he could be in the running for RoY if he keeps up the pace he's at.

Re: Redskins Vs Chargers Postgame
 

mattwaldmanrsp.com/2013/11/04/robert-griffin-part-ii-reasons-for-hope-and-watching-grass-grow/

Good read for those who don't understand the offense and complain about RG3 staring down WRs