Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

Good coaches adapt to their players strength's.....Gruden has not done this.... Not saying he should go but not giving him a free pass either.

Regardless what happens to him Haz must go and we must go back to the 4-3. The 3-4 has failed us. Most of our players would be better in a 4-3. Question is where to you play Kerrigan DE or LB or you could play him at both depending on the situation.. Rak - resign little more than vet min with incentives as a DE and if he doesn't accept let him walk....

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=VTSkins1961;1097444]Good coaches adapt to their players strength's.....Gruden has not done this.... Not saying he should go but not giving him a free pass either.

Regardless what happens to him Haz must go and we must go back to the 4-3. The 3-4 has failed us. Most of our players would be better in a 4-3. Question is where to you play Kerrigan DE or LB or you could play him at both depending on the situation.. Rak - resign little more than vet min with incentives as a DE and if he doesn't accept let him walk....[/quote]

OOOOOrrrrrrrr

Good coaches draft players in to their systems that fit. After having a few years....

It works both ways.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

Well I asked in another thread but nobody said how much input Gruden had this offseason? Harder to judge without all the draft picks though.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1097384]Stop blaming the fan base! We're just like any other fan base and we don't influence Dan Snyder's decisions.

Hold on just a second and I'll test out your "The Fan Base Is To Blame" theory.

Dear Dan Snyder: I say you should fire Jay Gruden because of the loss to the Colts.

Wait, Dan Snyder just responded.

Dear KI: **** you! I'm not firing anybody because some dumb ass fan said I should.

See?[/quote]


Nobody said or implied the fanbase was to blame in any of this. What was simply said is Dan Snyder is very much like our fanbase.

1) He's irrational and makes hasty decisions
2) He doesn't understand how to run an organization
3) Ideas suggested generally end up a disaster
4) Always chasing the "big name"

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-sports-bog/wp/2014/12/02/shannon-sharpe-offers-the-ultimate-rgiii-take/]Shannon Sharpe offers the ultimate RGIII take - The Washington Post[/url]

Very interesting.

So has RGIII been working as hard as we thought he has been?

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=mredskins;1097469][url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-sports-bog/wp/2014/12/02/shannon-sharpe-offers-the-ultimate-rgiii-take/]Shannon Sharpe offers the ultimate RGIII take - The Washington Post[/url]

Very interesting.

So has RGIII been working as hard as we thought he has been?[/quote]



I agree with that 100%. Too many people up here brushed aside his commercials and endorsements in the beginning. Well, they are very much related to how dedicated he is to football. Then again, Robert thought "practice was much harder than games" back in 2012. Robert was too busy acting like a superstar instead of actually becoming one.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1097468]Nobody said or implied the fanbase was to blame in any of this. What was simply said is Dan Snyder is very much like our fanbase.

1) He's irrational and makes hasty decisions
2) He doesn't understand how to run an organization
3) Ideas suggested generally end up a disaster
4) Always chasing the "big name"[/quote]

OK. I stand corrected on the blame issue.

However, you did say that our fan base is very much like Dan Snyder and because of that they "deserve" the inept owner of the Redskins. I disagree.

I don't think that Redskins fans are any different than the fans of any other NFL team. I think most NFL fans are more emotional than rational about their teams. Redskins fans don't deserve to lose because they are like Dan Snyder any more than Patriots fans deserve to win because they are not like Robert Kraft. On the other hand, Dan Snyder may deserve to lose because he runs his organization like a typical NFL fan would run it.

I'd like to think that Redskins fans deserve a better owner but the fact is we have Dan Snyder and there is nothing we can do about it.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

I'll agree with that Bucket and go so far to say instead of "or" it should be "and" but when a coach comes in and the players don't fit he should adapt until he gets the players via draft or free agency that fits his scheme

[quote=Bucket;1097445]OOOOOrrrrrrrr

Good coaches draft players in to their systems that fit. After having a few years....

It works both ways.[/quote]

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

It takes a gifted Head Coach to be able to adapt his system to the players he inherited and win with them versus rebuilding with players who better fit his system. There are only a small number of great Head Coaches who have been able to do that. Don Shula and Joe Gibbs are two of them. I know there are some others but, because I'm old and the memory is the second thing to go, I can't think of any more names right now.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=VTSkins1961;1097444]Haz must go and we must go back to the 4-3. The 3-4 has failed us. Most of our players would be better in a 4-3. Question is where to you play Kerrigan DE or LB or you could play him at both depending on the situation.. Rak - resign little more than vet min with incentives as a DE and if he doesn't accept let him walk....[/quote]

I like the idea of going to a 4-3.

Kerrigan was an outstanding 4-3 DE in college. Would he need to put on weight to play DE in the pros?

The rookie from Stanford looks like he has the frame to be a DE in the pros.

To me, paying near vet min for Orakpo doesn't seem to be realistic. Somebody is going to pay him more than that. The injury issues are still there with him but I think he could be a solid 4-3 DE.

We've got people who either have or could do a good job as a DT in a 4-3, IMO.

I'm not nearly as concerned about our DL personnel as most other posters seem to be but i could be wrong.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

Not gonna lie, I was happy with the Gruden selection (maybe happy is a stretch but I liked him best of all that interviewed) but I've been very disappointed.

In his first 12 games he's amassed a Pettibon like record and decided not one but TWO of the QB on the roster aren't fits for him and we're starting a 5th year retread. Even if McCoy goes 3-2 down the stretch, does anyone feel comfortable with him as a starter going into the offseason program? If you believe in sudden career resurrections in today's NFL, please see McCown, Josh.

This team needs a complete reboot and I don't think that the combination of Snyder/Allen/Gruden can effectively do it. Although that's mainly an indictment of Allen the most but they are all buddies so this sh*tshow will remain in place for a couple of years.

I've never been more apathetic about a Skins team. I watch on Sundays just because there are only 16 Sundays a year I can see my team but without a true care if they win or lose at this point. I can't guarantee that I'll be any more interested going forward until there are major philosophical changes up top and there's a football guy running the show without connection to the sidelines or owners box.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1097474]I agree with that 100%. Too many people up here brushed aside his commercials and endorsements in the beginning. Well, they are very much related to how dedicated he is to football. Then again, Robert thought "practice was much harder than games" back in 2012. Robert was too busy acting like a superstar instead of actually becoming one.[/quote]How can doing commercials equal less dedication to the team? Would Troy Polumalu, Aaron Rodgers (discount doublecheck!), and Peyton Manning be more devoted to their teams if they didn't do commercials?

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=HailGreen28;1097539]How can doing commercials equal less dedication to the team? Would Troy Polumalu, Aaron Rodgers (discount doublecheck!), and Peyton Manning be more devoted to their teams if they didn't do commercials?[/quote]

Yeah I still don't think it's a big deal either.

Sharpe brings up some valid points but doing commercials is probably the last thing to be concerned about.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=HailGreen28;1097539]How can doing commercials equal less dedication to the team? Would Troy Polumalu, Aaron Rodgers (discount doublecheck!), and Peyton Manning be more devoted to their teams if they didn't do commercials?[/quote]

When Robert was kickin it in 2012...who cared then about Subway...etc? When you struggle or are not winning, many people focus on stupid...BS

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

Nothing wrong with being on tv if you're backing it up on the field. Not the case with Griffin. I'm sure "RG3" has worn thin on his teammates. Very telling that he wasn't voted captain by his teammates. Probably pretty rare for a starting QB not to have that status. To me that says a lot.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1097475]OK. I stand corrected on the blame issue.

However, you did say that our fan base is very much like Dan Snyder and because of that they "deserve" the inept owner of the Redskins. I disagree.

I don't think that Redskins fans are any different than the fans of any other NFL team. I think most NFL fans are more emotional than rational about their teams. Redskins fans don't deserve to lose because they are like Dan Snyder any more than Patriots fans deserve to win because they are not like Robert Kraft. On the other hand, Dan Snyder may deserve to lose because he runs his organization like a typical NFL fan would run it.

I'd like to think that Redskins fans deserve a better owner but the fact is we have Dan Snyder and there is nothing we can do about it.[/quote]

There are plenty of teams out there that do poorly without having an owner like Snyder.

IMO, the problem lies with the people he hired to run the team such as Bruce Allen and Mike Shanahan, which ironically a lot of people (back when they were first hired) would consider them to be "football people".

So we have gone from terrible yes-men (Cerrato) to "football people" that have failed miserably (Shanahan and Allen), and that's why we've ended up where we are right now.

The problem will not go away if Sndyer goes away, look at the Raiders and how they've fared after Al Davis' passing. The problem will go away when Snyder hires the right person to run the team. It is obvious now that he has hired the wrong person twice (yet many of us were okay with these hiring before).

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=HailGreen28;1097539]How can doing commercials equal less dedication to the team? Would Troy Polumalu, Aaron Rodgers (discount doublecheck!), and Peyton Manning be more devoted to their teams if they didn't do commercials?[/quote]

For starters, all three of those guys didn't do commercials until they were a proven commodity. Robert was making commercials long before the season even begin. It's one thing if you have your shit together, and have your game tight. This isn't the case, and it shows. All the time focused on your "branding" and marketing should have been spent making yourself a better football player. Something that Peyton had to do early in his career.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1097551]For starters, all three of those guys didn't do commercials until they were a proven commodity. Robert was making commercials long before the season even begin. It's one thing if you have your shit together, and have your game tight. This isn't the case, and it shows. All the time focused on your "branding" and marketing should have been spent making yourself a better football player. Something that Peyton had to do early in his career.[/quote]

People really need to get over this crap.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

If the franchise already decided to part ways with RG then I wish him all the best with his next team. And I hope McCoy is our great comeback story instead. Still dislike Grudens handling of the QB situation, not to mention the whole team this season. Gruden couldn't have done any worse up to this point, but I want to stay positive and think McCoy perfectly fits whatever Gruden is trying to do with the offense.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[QUOTE]“I felt like last week early in the game, I wasn’t getting the call in until 20, 25 seconds, then getting everybody up to the line, trying to see the defense and make adjustments on the line of scrimmage on the road.” McCoy said. “That’s just tough to do.”

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/wp/2014/12/03/avoiding-third-and-long-is-mccoys-priority-sunday-against-st-louis/]Avoiding third and long is McCoy’s priority Sunday against St. Louis - The Washington Post[/url]
[/QUOTE]


Seems like Colt was implying Gruden was sending the calls in late... Hope that was an isolated thing..

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1097552]People really need to get over this crap.[/quote]

Well, the results show. Maybe if he had spent more time invested into football (video/etc) maybe he wouldn't be that far behind. I'm tired of people just brushing it off like it has nothing to do with it, but the reality of it is that it does. Shanny said he needed to spend more time on it, and Gruden even recently said he needed to work on his craft more.

Did you not read what Shannon Sharpe said? Just because you come into the job before everybody and leave after everybody doesn't mean jack shit. Unfortunately for QBs, they have to put in that much more effort and time to their crafts. If you aren't going to do it, chances are you aren't going to make it either.

So, on one hand we got guys like you and a few other saying it's no big deal. On the other hand, we have 2 professional coaches saying it is a big deal. No offense, but I think I'll go with the professionals on this one.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1097559]Well, the results show. Maybe if he had spent more time invested into football (video/etc) maybe he wouldn't be that far behind. I'm tired of people just brushing it off like it has nothing to do with it, but the reality of it is that it does. Shanny said he needed to spend more time on it, and Gruden even recently said he needed to work on his craft more.

Did you not read what Shannon Sharpe said? Just because you come into the job before everybody and leave after everybody doesn't mean jack shit. Unfortunately for QBs, they have to put in that much more effort and time to their crafts. If you aren't going to do it, chances are you aren't going to make it either.

So, on one hand we got guys like you and a few other saying it's no big deal. On the other hand, we have 2 professional coaches saying it is a big deal. No offense, but I think I'll go with the professionals on this one.[/quote]

First of all, I'm not defending RG3's performance and it is obvious there are issues with him.

That being said, if two coaches are telling me that their QB needs to work, and they can't get that said QB to put in the work. The problem lies within the coaches, just as much as it lies with the coaches. And let's not forget how much power Shanahan had in the organization.

I'm pretty positive that if you take away all the commercials and all the branding and all the media exposure, RG3 would still have the same problems that he has today.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1097560]First of all, I'm not defending RG3's performance and it is obvious there are issues with him.

That being said, if two coaches are telling me that their QB needs to work, and they can't get that said QB to put in the work. The problem lies within the coaches, just as much as it lies with the coaches. And let's not forget how much power Shanahan had in the organization.

[B]I'm pretty positive that if you take away all the commercials and all the branding and all the media exposure, RG3 would still have the same problems that he has today.[/B][/quote]

Yup. It doesn't take long to film a commercial. It's the 22 other hours on commercial days, and 24 hours on non-filming days, that have passed RGIII by.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1097560]I'm pretty positive that if you take away all the commercials and all the branding and all the media exposure, RG3 would still have the same problems that he has today.[/quote]


I don't disagree with that one bit. I'm not saying that commercials/branding was his downfall, but it's obvious he didn't put the required time in.


As far as the coaches go. There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee that goes.... you can only lead a horse to water, you can't make him drink.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=ethat001;1097557]Seems like Colt was implying Gruden was sending the calls in late... Hope that was an isolated thing..[/quote]

No it's been a problem all season. Teams lack of preparation and sloppiness on gameday is on Gruden.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1097549]The problem will go away when Snyder hires the right person to run the team. [B]It is obvious now that he has hired the wrong person twice[/B] (yet many of us were okay with these hiring before).[/quote]

Twice? Snyder is working on the NFL owner record for bad hires. Not to mention that fired someone who might have been the right person (Schottenheimer).

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1097566]I don't disagree with that one bit. I'm not saying that commercials/branding was his downfall, but it's obvious he didn't put the required time in.

As far as the coaches go. There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee that goes.... you can only lead a horse to water, you can't make him drink.[/quote]

There's another old saying that you can catch more flies with honey than you can with vinegar. My point is that Jay Gruden seemed to have developed a negative attitude toward RGIII early on in their relationship. Now, it looks as if he wants to give up on Robert altogether.

I'm not a football coach, but I wouldn't do that just yet. I'd hire a QB coach and "invite" (i.e., require) Robert to spend a lot of time with that coach working on the field and studying to improve his skills and knowledge. Then, I'd see how that goes.

What is the truth about Robert? [B]I[/B] can't handle the truth!

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

Deciding to change starters at a certain position because your starter is not playing well, does not mean coach dislikes that player and is forever giving up on the former starter.
You should still have to earn your position on the field, even the coddled Qb position where QB's are treated differently than the other players.
Until Griffen is released or traded for a ham sandwich then I will believe Gruden dislikes Griffen. Until then I will continue to think Gruden is just trying to start the QB that gives him the best chance to win.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=Lotus;1097563]Yup. It doesn't take long to film a commercial. It's the 22 other hours on commercial days, and 24 hours on non-filming days, that have passed RGIII by.[/quote]

I don't think it was the time spent on commercials that Sharp was criticizing; it was his mentality. The mentality that he had already made it; he was a superstar. The branding of RGIII was more important then the development of RGIII.

For example this commercial.
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxPQvc75UzI[/url]



They branded his recover from knee surgery.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1097570]Twice? Snyder is working on the NFL owner record for bad hires. Not to mention that fired someone who might have been the right person (Schottenheimer).[/quote]

I'm talking about post-Vinny Snyder.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[QUOTE=mredskins;1097594]I don't think it was the time spent on commercials that Sharp was criticizing; it was his mentality. The mentality that he had already made it; he was a superstar. The branding of RGIII was more important then the development of RGIII.





For example this commercial.


[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxPQvc75UzI[/url]











They branded his recover from knee surgery.[/QUOTE]



I'm ALL IN for this year to be over.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=Brody81;1097600]I'm ALL IN for this year to be over.[/quote]

Nah, you know you want more Redskins football. For us, it's like a crack cocaine addiction.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=mredskins;1097594]I don't think it was the time spent on commercials that Sharp was criticizing; it was his mentality. The mentality that he had already made it; he was a superstar. The branding of RGIII was more important then the development of RGIII.

For example this commercial.
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxPQvc75UzI[/url]



They branded his recover from knee surgery.[/quote]

You put that well and I understand the point. But it is the mentality which is the problem, the commercials are just outer symptoms. The mentality would be a problem even if he had done no commercials and thought the same thoughts.

Thus the problem with Robert is deeper than just his time investment in commercials, as some have implied. The time investment itself is minimal. It's not a scheduling problem, it's a psychological one.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=Lotus;1097608]You put that well and I understand the point. [B] But it is the mentality which is the problem, the commercials are just outer symptoms. The mentality would be a problem even if he had done no commercials and thought the same thoughts. [/B]
Thus the problem with Robert is deeper than just his time investment in commercials, as some have implied. The time investment itself is minimal. It's not a scheduling problem, it's a psychological one.[/quote]

Bingo.

I would also add the ends is a large metal trash receptable, a ton of garbage, gasoline and a match.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1097559]Well, the results show. Maybe if he had spent more time invested into football (video/etc) maybe he wouldn't be that far behind. I'm tired of people just brushing it off like it has nothing to do with it, but the reality of it is that it does. Shanny said he needed to spend more time on it, and Gruden even recently said he needed to work on his craft more.

Did you not read what Shannon Sharpe said? Just because you come into the job before everybody and leave after everybody doesn't mean jack shit. Unfortunately for QBs, they have to put in that much more effort and time to their crafts. If you aren't going to do it, chances are you aren't Young to make it either.

So, on one hand we got guys like you and a few other saying it's no big deal. On the other hand, we have 2 professional coaches saying it is a big deal. No offense, but I think I'll go with the professionals on this one.[/quote]

My only question would be since Gruden has been brutally honest about RG3 game performance why didn't he bash his preparation or his work ethic if that was the case. I remember Gruden praising Robert's work ethic from day one. So since that is the case and should I be more concerned with RG3 lack of preparation to be ready or the fact that he was able to fool the head coach to believing that he was prepared?

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1097611]Bingo.

I would also add the ends is a large metal trash receptable, a ton of garbage, gasoline and a match.[/quote]

I believe that you and mooby have solved the team name issue. We can change the name to Washington Dumpster Fires. The flames logo will look cool.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[QUOTE=Ruhskins;1097560]First of all, I'm not defending RG3's performance and it is obvious there are issues with him.



That being said, if two coaches are telling me that their QB needs to work, and they can't get that said QB to put in the work. The problem lies within the coaches, just as much as it lies with the coaches. And let's not forget how much power Shanahan had in the organization.



I'm pretty positive that if you take away all the commercials and all the branding and all the media exposure, RG3 would still have the same problems that he has today.[/QUOTE]


Well how does it lie with the coaches if he doesnt put in the "extra" work. He got his ass benched. What else can they do?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=mredskins;1097594]I don't think it was the time spent on commercials that Sharp was criticizing; it was his mentality. The mentality that he had already made it; he was a superstar. The branding of RGIII was more important then the development of RGIII.

For example this commercial.
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxPQvc75UzI[/url]



They branded his recover from knee surgery.[/quote]


The hilarious part about that "all in for week one" commercial is that it didn't show the main aspect of being a QB. Film study. Too busy focused on the body, and neglected the main part.

I agree with the sentiment though because I said exactly the same thing on the /r/Redskins subreddit. Robert starting acting like he was a superstar before he actually became one.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

Well he did have a superstar rookie season, nobody was really complaining about the commercials back then and we were all eating it up. He definitely cut way back on that stuff since then to be fair.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1097611]Bingo.

I would also add the ends is a large metal trash receptable, a ton of garbage, gasoline and a match.[/quote]

Lmfao