Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

Go 9-7, then 8-7-1 with Sean McVay. Then look like this without him.

Tells you who our coaching talent really was.

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1182899][url=http://www.nbcsports.com/video/redskins-coach-jay-gruden-could-lose-job-after-dj-swearinger-comments?ls=pftvod]Redskins coach Jay Gruden could lose job after D.J. Swearinger comments | NBC Sports[/url][/quote]

If Gruden goes, Allen better be following him out the door.

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1182906]Jay Gruden said he thought about going for a two-point conversion after Bashaud Breeland's interception return for a touchdown made it 30-12. They could have cut it to a two-score game with 2:36 remaining. But Gruden said they were down to one running back, three receivers and left tackle Trent Williams was done. Gruden said he didn't want to risk further injuries by trying to extend the game.[B] "I wanted to get out of the game, get back on the plane and get ready for Arizona," he said.[/B][/quote]

Wow, teaching your players how to surrender, what a leader! Problem is when he did that the Redskins still had a slim chance, teams have scored twice in the last 2:36, with the two minute warning they basically had 4 timeouts left.

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1182906]Jay Gruden said he thought about going for a two-point conversion after Bashaud Breeland's interception return for a touchdown made it 30-12. They could have cut it to a two-score game with 2:36 remaining. But Gruden said they were down to one running back, three receivers and left tackle Trent Williams was done. Gruden said he didn't want to risk further injuries by trying to extend the game. "I wanted to get out of the game, get back on the plane and get ready for Arizona," he said.[/quote]

Wow! He did quit, then. I can hardly believe he said that.

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

[quote=Schneed10;1182913]Go 9-7, then 8-7-1 with Sean McVay. Then look like this without him.

Tells you who our coaching talent really was.[/quote]

Yeah, looks like I was wrong about McVay. He has the Rams looking like a legit team in 1 season while we're having a fire our coach discussion.

Great job by the Rams organization to get their guy.

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1182917]Wow! He did quit, then. I can hardly believe he said that.[/quote]

He is basically saying he didn't even want Breeland to make that play. He would rather of had Chargers score another TD. What a joke.

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1182917]Wow! He did quit, then. I can hardly believe he said that.[/quote]

Yeah and u can tell by his pressure that he is ready to leave, he knows the team has quit on him.

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

I've noticed when Jon does our games on MNF he's very critical of the organization, he's said negative things about us more than any other team.. I think there is something to that, maybe that is a hidden message for his brother?

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

I need to change my vote. My rationale was that the team hadn't quit on him, but that is long gone after these last two losses. Sad day.

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1182918]Yeah, looks like I was wrong about McVay. He has the Rams looking like a legit team in 1 season while we're having a fire our coach discussion.

Great job by the Rams organization to get their guy.[/quote]

The Rams aren't a dumpster fire like The Redskins either. If McVay had stayed here and taken over as coach then he wouldn't look like the boy genius he is because this Front Office trips up all their coaches.

If Snyder doesn't have a viable candidate in mind then sacking Gruden would be asinine. This season has been awash due to injuries and letting key players go with no one to step up and fill their shoes. Jay has dropped the ball the last two games but he has shown overall to be a solid to good coach. Under Snyder that's the best we can get. :(

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

[quote=Bishop Hammer;1182980]The Rams aren't a dumpster fire like The Redskins either. If McVay had stayed here and taken over as coach then he wouldn't look like the boy genius he is because this Front Office trips up all their coaches.

If Snyder doesn't have a viable candidate in mind then sacking Gruden would be asinine. This season has been awash due to injuries and letting key players go with no one to step up and fill their shoes. Jay has dropped the ball the last two games but he has shown overall to be a solid to good coach. Under Snyder that's the best we can get. :([/quote]

I shared roughly the same position as yours on Gruden's future here until I learned that he gave up trying to win during the Chargers game - an act that infuriated the players. In his post-game comments to the Press, he even admitted that he gave up trying to win. If a so-called "players coach" has lost the trust of the players by quitting on them, then what is the FO to do?

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

I'm not sure what experienced head coach would look at the Redskins organization and say "I want to go there." That means the hire would be another head coach with no head coaching experience and I really don't see how the result would be any different than what has been experienced these past few years with Gruden. Gruden now is an experienced head coach and I think at some point the Skins have to bite the bullet and stick with one of their head coach choices.

Gruden isn't perfect but no head coach is and this organization has been being destroyed for the past 20 years so no coach is going to turn this mess around in 3 or 4 years. I think they should keep Gruden and see what happens.

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

If we lose these last 3 games and aren’t competitive I can understand JG being on the hot seat.

Otherwise bring him back.

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

[quote=MTK;1182985]If we lose these last 3 games and aren’t competitive I can understand JG being on the hot seat.

Otherwise bring him back.[/quote]

Let's think through this for a second.

His squad goes out and lays two complete eggs in a row against Dallas and the Chargers. The last three games they look much more competitive, and go 1-2 or 2-1.

Are you willing to overlook the two eggs laid against Dallas and the Chargers? If so, I'm curious why.

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;1182988]Let's think through this for a second.



His squad goes out and lays two complete eggs in a row against Dallas and the Chargers. The last three games they look much more competitive, and go 1-2 or 2-1.



Are you willing to overlook the two eggs laid against Dallas and the Chargers? If so, I'm curious why.[/QUOTE]


Because laying two eggs late in the season won’t overshadow all the injuries and the fact we were generally more competitive than not all year.

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

[quote=MTK;1182985]If we lose these last 3 games and aren’t competitive I can understand JG being on the hot seat.

Otherwise bring him back.[/quote]

We'll see how the team responds the next 3 games, if we win out and go 8-8 I agree give him one more shot, if we stink it up and go 6-10 or 5-11 he's gone.

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

"We have to study the film after practice like we do," Gruden said. "We're putting the plans in, we're studying, we're practicing, we're watching the tape and they should be prepared, but for whatever reason, it doesn't look that way."

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

[QUOTE=MTK;1182990]Because laying two eggs late in the season won’t overshadow all the injuries and the fact we were generally more competitive than not all year.[/QUOTE]Agreed. I'm really pissed at Jay for quitting in the Chargers game and admitting to it.

However let's not forget about the Seahawks game, the Saints game, the Chiefs game, the Rams game etc...

The previous 2 seasons and this team being competitive through all the injuries (until 2 weeks ago that is) are enough to give him another shot: he's not perfect but he may very well be a lot better than who we'd end up with if he's fired.

As Irish said above, this place isn't especially appealing to a good HC right now... And canning the only coach who came close to building something good in the last 20 years or so wouldn't help improve the image of this organisation in the eyes of a competent candidate.

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

[quote=MTK;1182990]Because laying two eggs late in the season won’t overshadow all the injuries and the fact we were generally more competitive than not all year.[/quote]

Yet these two eggs are coming at a time when we're healthier than we were against New Orleans and Seattle.

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

There are few things in life where no second chance is deserved as far as I am concerned. Giving up like Gruden did is one of those.

49er coach Steve Mariucci pulled a similar stunt, down 28-6 with a 2nd & 1 at his own 40 with two timeouts and :50 left he let the clock run down and then had Jeff Garcia take a knee before halftime. That was in a play-off game in the 2002 season. I was in a sports bar packed with 49er fans, they were angry as hell, Mariucci got himself immediately fired and the 49ers didn't even have a replacement in mind, they just wanted his sorry ass gone for that stunt.

I feel the same way, I don't want to see Gruden on the Redskin sideline anymore or listen to him talk, he did a pathetic unforgivable act.

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

Ultimately, my big concern is Jay doesn't have the organizational skills to tie all of his coaches together and get them working in a unified fashion to implement his vision.

Bill Callahan schemes the run game and Jay handles the passing game. I don't think they play well off one another. They don't run and pass out of the same formations, certain formations are nearly 100% runs and others are nearly 100% passes.

Our pass blocking is strong so the passing game usually clicks. Our running game gets stuffed, and I think it's because the D knows when its coming.

It's awkward. He misses McVay, who tied it all together a little better. We can do better than Gruden.

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;1183002]Yet these two eggs are coming at a time when we're healthier than we were against New Orleans and Seattle.[/QUOTE]


You sure about that? The IR list has only continued to grow week to week

[url]https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/was/2017_injuries.htm[/url]

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

[quote=Schneed10;1183004]Ultimately, my big concern is Jay doesn't have the organizational skills to tie all of his coaches together and get them working in a unified fashion to implement his vision.

Bill Callahan schemes the run game and Jay handles the passing game. I don't think they play well off one another. They don't run and pass out of the same formations, certain formations are nearly 100% runs and others are nearly 100% passes.

Our pass blocking is strong so the passing game usually clicks. Our running game gets stuffed, and I think it's because the D knows when its coming.

It's awkward. He misses McVay, who tied it all together a little better. [B]We can do better than Gruden.[/quote][/B]

Really? Like who? No experienced head coach would come here unless they are desperate for a job. Hiring another coordinator as a head coach means another 2-4 years of on the job head coach training. At this point Gruden is the best fit for this team.

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

[quote=MTK;1183005]You sure about that? The IR list has only continued to grow week to week

[url]https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/was/2017_injuries.htm[/url][/quote]

Scherff, Williams, and Moses all playing. They're obviously our three best offensive linemen. Cousins hasn't missed a start. Doctson, Crowder, Vernon Davis, Ryan Grant, Niles Paul all playing. Why again couldn't we score more than 6 points on offense on Sunday?

Ioannidis got his cast off Sunday. Kerrigan, Preston, Junior and Ryan Anderson all healthy. Secondary all healthy except for Montae. Zach Brown still on the field. Explain why DJ thinks cheating over to cover Allen is the right move when Norman thinks he's got safety help on the Tyrell Williams bomb. Either DJ messed that up, or Norman messed that up. Gruden said DJ messed it up. So why then is your opening day free safety messing that up? Could it be that he wasn't coached well?

Why don't players know their assignments going into the game?

Please Matty, you've become the ultimate excuse-maker.

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

[quote=irish;1183006][/B]

Really? Like who? [B]No experienced head coach would come here unless they are desperate for a job[/B]. Hiring another coordinator as a head coach means another 2-4 years of on the job head coach training. At this point Gruden is the best fit for this team.[/quote]

Ultimately that is resigning yourself to being the new Cleveland Browns.

I didn't say Allen also shouldn't go. It should be a cleaned house. Allen doesn't know how to run a football operation, and Gruden doesn't know how to organize a staff to implement a strategic vision.

Start over.

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

I’m not excusing anything, we flat out stunk the last 2 games. It doesn’t change the fact we have a ton of injuries. I’m not going to lay it all on JG while overlooking how he had this team competing pretty much all year outside of the last 2.

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

[quote=Schneed10;1183002]Yet these two eggs are coming at a time when we're healthier than we were against New Orleans and Seattle.[/quote]

This team isn't healthier. You can tell by how gassed the defense gets after one half of a football game. That comes from having nobody to rotate in. The offense isn't healthier. We have one running back. Half of the offensive line out on IR, and the guys playing are all playing hurt. Our back ups to the backups to the other backups continue to get hurt. Our best receiver is Ryan Grant. He shouldn't be anywhere near a starting lineup. How Gruden was able to keep this team competitive up until the last two weeks has been nothing short of amazing. He's literally fielding a team of third stringers and practice squad guys. Kirk Cousins has been the only constant starter throughout the season.

If anything, those two eggs are indicative to the fact that this team has ran out of juice, physically. The players who have check out mentally, the ones Swearinger was calling out, is an indictment on Bruce Allen, not Jay Gruden. I believe Gruden is doing everything he can do to get the players ready, but if they're still asking questions about assignments 5 minutes before the game, that is a sign that A) The coach has nobody else to put in and B) the front office has done a lousy job at player acquisition.

I don't care who the coach is, as long as you have the wrong people in charge with bringing in guys to complete the roster, the head coach will never be truly successful, save for a mirage of a good season sprinkled in here or there. The first guy that needs to be looked at it Bruce Allen. His handling of the Kirk Cousins contract talks, the RGIII situation, his handling of Scot McCloughan's firing, his overall poor winning % under his direction (GMs share in the win/loss ratio as well), his inability to bring in solid mid-season acquisitions to give the team a fighting chance, and his inability to find solid contributors in the lower rounds of the draft. There is more than enough to boot Allen to the curb. And if you think Gruden has been a failure, then that also reflects on Bruce Allen's inability to hire the right guy for the job. It's been one big cluster under Allen, and that's the first place I look at if I'm Dan Snyder.

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

[quote=Schneed10;1183008]Ultimately that is resigning yourself to being the new Cleveland Browns.

I didn't say Allen also shouldn't go. It should be a cleaned house. Allen doesn't know how to run a football operation, and Gruden doesn't know how to organize a staff to implement a strategic vision.

Start over.[/quote]

Start over again? This is how many start overs in the last 15 years? IMO starting over is cutting off your nose to spite your face with no guarantee that starting over will provide better results. It seems that starting over is the one thing this organization does well so I understand why its always the first choice of the organization and a lot of it's fans.

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

[quote=Schneed10;1183004]Ultimately, my big concern is Jay doesn't have the organizational skills to tie all of his coaches together and get them working in a unified fashion to implement his vision.

Bill Callahan schemes the run game and Jay handles the passing game. I don't think they play well off one another. They don't run and pass out of the same formations, certain formations are nearly 100% runs and others are nearly 100% passes.

Our pass blocking is strong so the passing game usually clicks. [B]Our running game gets stuffed, and I think it's because the D knows when its coming.[/B]

It's awkward. He misses McVay, who tied it all together a little better. We can do better than Gruden.[/quote]

Running is severely lacking and affects every aspect of the game...simply put, we need better talent at running and a change in the interior Oline...Spencer Long/Lauavo/Chase Roullier have been HORRIFIC run blocking. Im shocked people would want Long and Lauavo back.

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

[quote=metalskins;1183010]This team isn't healthier. You can tell by how gassed the defense gets after one half of a football game. That comes from having nobody to rotate in. The offense isn't healthier. We have one running back. Half of the offensive line out on IR, and the guys playing are all playing hurt. Our back ups to the backups to the other backups continue to get hurt. Our best receiver is Ryan Grant. He shouldn't be anywhere near a starting lineup. How Gruden was able to keep this team competitive up until the last two weeks has been nothing short of amazing. He's literally fielding a team of third stringers and practice squad guys. Kirk Cousins has been the only constant starter throughout the season.

If anything, those two eggs are indicative to the fact that this team has ran out of juice, physically. The players who have check out mentally, the ones Swearinger was calling out, is an indictment on Bruce Allen, not Jay Gruden. I believe Gruden is doing everything he can do to get the players ready, but if they're still asking questions about assignments 5 minutes before the game, that is a sign that A) The coach has nobody else to put in and B) the front office has done a lousy job at player acquisition.

I don't care who the coach is, as long as you have the wrong people in charge with bringing in guys to complete the roster, the head coach will never be truly successful, save for a mirage of a good season sprinkled in here or there. The first guy that needs to be looked at it Bruce Allen. His handling of the Kirk Cousins contract talks, the RGIII situation, his handling of Scot McCloughan's firing, his overall poor winning % under his direction (GMs share in the win/loss ratio as well), his inability to bring in solid mid-season acquisitions to give the team a fighting chance, and his inability to find solid contributors in the lower rounds of the draft. There is more than enough to boot Allen to the curb. And if you think Gruden has been a failure, then that also reflects on Bruce Allen's inability to hire the right guy for the job. It's been one big cluster under Allen, and that's the first place I look at if I'm Dan Snyder.[/quote]

^
^
This

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

After four years you guys are ready to say this is the best we can do? Bump our heads on 9-7? If we're fully healthy all year, and things break our way, we can maybe get to 10-6.

That's what you could hope for next year. Because every year a Gruden team lays a few inexplicable eggs. Cincinatti in London. Giants Week 17 last year.

You're signing up for mediocrity. And you're also crazy.

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

Mid season firings never really work but Gruden should have been fired after the Saints game. The last two games only confirms that he's not HC material. His own players don't even know their assignments, and these aren't guys that are just coming off the street either.

The injuries have hurt but last week was a non competitive team that looked like they didn't want to be there, coming off a long layoff. I've never seen a defense give up 350 yards in a half in an NFL game. Last week's effort was inexcusable, just like the Saints game was.

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

The saints game was it for me, the fact that we had a chance to make a playoff run even with the injuries, BUT you as a team choke away a 15 PT lead with 4 mins left...

Then the HC says "I just don't understand" or "we have to find ways to win" That to me shows he's in over his head, I'm not saying he's a shit coach but he isn't HC material.

Also the year we went 9-7 and won the pathetic east, we had NO big time injuries, Jordan Reed was a monster and Romo got injured early on or else Dallas probably would have won it that yr.

Jay is 26-34 as a HC, that isn't terrible but it isn't good either.

He is what his record says he is, very rarely do you see guys turn it around and become great head coaches. BB doesn't count.

Sean Mcvay has turned a complete 180 around in LA, that team was horrible for the last 10 plus years, he comes in and proves hes one of the next big time coaches in the NFL.

Same as Doug P, look at what he has done in Philly.

Hell even Jason Garrett who most Dallas fans want gone every yr has a winning record.

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

Gruden's record with McVay and his record without McVay speaks volumes.

His complete inability to field a competitive defense over FOUR SEASONS also is damning. He doesn't know how to hire a defensive coordinator.

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

Complete and utter incompetency in 2-minute situations.

He can design a passing game, I'll give him that. But that qualifies you for offensive coordinator, not head coach.

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

[quote=Schneed10;1183019]Gruden's record with McVay and his record without McVay speaks volumes.

His complete inability to field a competitive defense over FOUR SEASONS also is damning. He doesn't know how to hire a defensive coordinator.[/quote]

He also has one of the worst RZ % over that 4 year span, we are in the bottom 10 over the years in RZ scoring, that won't beat many teams

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

[quote=metalskins;1183010]This team isn't healthier. You can tell by how gassed the defense gets after one half of a football game. That comes from having nobody to rotate in. The offense isn't healthier. We have one running back. Half of the offensive line out on IR, and the guys playing are all playing hurt. Our back ups to the backups to the other backups continue to get hurt. Our best receiver is Ryan Grant. He shouldn't be anywhere near a starting lineup. How Gruden was able to keep this team competitive up until the last two weeks has been nothing short of amazing. He's literally fielding a team of third stringers and practice squad guys. Kirk Cousins has been the only constant starter throughout the season.[/quote]

Gruden is playing with a deck stacked against him but I feel he is responsible for stacking the deck. During his tenure it is pretty obvious the Redskins are on the wrong end of the injury reports, it is starting to become more than coincidence, something isn't right. What it is I do not know, but it appears to be more than just bad luck.

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1183021]He also has one of the worst RZ % over that 4 year span, we are in the bottom 10 over the years in RZ scoring, that won't beat many teams[/quote]

I got an idea. Let's call three consecutive fades.

To be fair, they've gotten a bit better this year. Cousins has improved in his ability to extend plays.

But the tendency to use Cousins as a runner around the goalline is scary. It's going to get him hurt. Those read option calls can be effective but I feel like Jay uses them as a crutch.

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

Doc is a good option down there but we just don't have the weapons right now. His calls in crucial situations are what kills me, the fact that we are like 30% on 3rd and short is unreal.

Re: By Popular Demand. Should the Skins FIRE Jay Gruden? Thread
 

[quote=Schneed10;1183019]Gruden's record with McVay and his record without McVay speaks volumes.

His complete inability to field a competitive defense over FOUR SEASONS also is damning. He doesn't know how to hire a defensive coordinator.[/quote]

Because Gruden doesn't have the power to hire his defensive coordinator. Bruce Allen does all the hiring and firing. He may have Gruden involved in the interview process, but Allen ultimately decides who he wants in there coaching. That is all on Bruce Allen, NOT on Jay Gruden.