Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

[quote=mooby;1242296]for coordinator or qb coach?

Regardless, i have trust in rivera.[/quote]

o.c

Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

My only concern is that we are literally doing the same thing BA was always panned for. Going to his old team and pulling all the same characters that led the Panthers to up and down seasons.

Time will tell.

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Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

Not a big fan of the Turner hire. New offense means a learning curve for an already young offense. Plus Turner was an OC for like 5 minutes. This screams good old boy hire if you ask me.

Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1242300]Not a big fan of the Turner hire. New offense means a learning curve for an already young offense. Plus Turner was an OC for like 5 minutes. This screams good old boy hire if you ask me.[/quote]

Exactly...not impressed with RR so far.

Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

I feel bad it didn't work out with KOC but I'm positive he'll be fine elsewhere.

At this point even if you don't like Scott Turner all we can do is hope Rivera is making the right moves.

Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1242300]Not a big fan of the Turner hire. New offense means a learning curve for an already young offense. Plus Turner was an OC for like 5 minutes. This screams good old boy hire if you ask me.[/quote]

Well, in fairness, we scored the fewest points in the NFL. Perhaps a new learning curve is in order.

Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

Someone please tell me of a situation where a new head coach hired a bunch of assistants that had no previous ties whatsoever to him.

People need to get over these hires being from the Panthers or other ties to Rivera. And see what happens.

As some media folks have said on Twitter, remember this is a team that went 3-13.

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Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

i think the turner hire possibly has to do with a favor in scheme on offense. Not just the person.

Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

[quote=mooby;1242303]I feel bad it didn't work out with KOC but I'm positive he'll be fine elsewhere.

At this point even if you don't like Scott Turner all we can do is hope Rivera is making the right moves.[/quote]

I still feel like it's going to end up with KOC in Cleveland with McDaniels and when this is all said and done it will be a mutual split. My guess is that the hire of Turner was made possible today be it becoming clear that the McDaniels/KOC combo wasn't going to be in NY.

Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1242300]Not a big fan of the Turner hire. New offense means a learning curve for an already young offense. Plus Turner was an OC for like 5 minutes. This screams good old boy hire if you ask me.[/quote]

KOC was an OC for like 5 minutes as well, and presided over the worst offense in the league. Turner is, by default, an upgrade.

Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

[QUOTE=Ruhskins;1242309]Someone please tell me of a situation where a new head coach hired a bunch of assistants that had no previous ties whatsoever to him.

People need to get over these hires being from the Panthers or other ties to Rivera. And see what happens.

As some media folks have said on Twitter, remember this is a team that went 3-13.

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Exactly, pay close attention to any HC change around the league and you’ll see every HC does the same thing. They bring in their guys. Guys they know and trust so they can hit the ground running. Haven’t we seen it enough here to know this is what happens? Yet every time people seem thrown off by it. I don’t get it.



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Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

KOC clearly wants to move on, more power to him. Let’s stop acting like it’s only a team decision.


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Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;1242314]KOC was an OC for like 5 minutes as well, and presided over the worst offense in the league.[/quote]

This is a great point.

Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

[QUOTE=BigHairedAristocrat;1242314]KOC was an OC for like 5 minutes as well, and presided over the worst offense in the league. Turner is, by default, an upgrade.[/QUOTE]Well to be fair Scott Turner was OC for an even shorter time.

And wasn't even Panther's OC until Rivera was fired.
from Wikipedia
[QUOTE]On December 3, 2019, the Panthers, fired Ron Rivera and made Perry Fewell interim head coach. A few days later, Turner's father was moved from offensive coordinator to special assistant to the head coach while Turner himself was promoted to offensive coordinator replacing his father[/QUOTE]



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Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;1242273]Joe Judge gets a job before Eric Bieniemy? Literally makes no sense.[/QUOTE]


Maybe he doesn’t want to leave KC



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Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

In the end it's silly to lament the loss of a guy like KOC, or hell even if Schaffer leaves who cares. Do we want Rivera in charge or not?

Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

[QUOTE=MTK;1242334]In the end it's silly to lament the loss of a guy like KOC, or hell even if Schaffer leaves who cares. Do we want Rivera in charge or not?[/QUOTE]This is the bottomline.

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Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

I do want to keep Kyle Smith and Alex Santos. Weve heard enough good things about them over the years.

Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

[quote=SunnySide;1242338]I do want to keep Kyle Smith and Alex Santos. Weve heard enough good things about them over the years.[/quote]

JP Findlay mentioned that he believes Doug, Kyle, and Santos are safe for now.

While Schaffer was good and I wanted him to stay, he was also very close to Allen. I think that may be have been his undoing.

Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1242322]Well to be fair Scott Turner was OC for an even shorter time.

And wasn't even Panther's OC until Rivera was fired.
from Wikipedia




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And he really improved their offense - with a 3rd string QB - in those 4 weeks.

What has KOC ever done here to care about? He's NOT Matt Lafleur and he's certainly not Sean McVay. He may be there one day, but he's nowhere close to being in their league now.

KOC's days here were numbered the second the season was over. It would have been foolish to promote him to HC and unreasonable to expect any new HC to just hand him the job based on the mediocre (at best) job he'd done here. KOC and Turner are basically on the same level as far as i'm concerned.

Snyder was quick and decisive in hiring Rivera - clearly the top HC candidate in the offseason - and Rivera has been quick and decisive in assembling his staff. Its clear that Rivera is getting his top choices and not settling for anything. We've been screaming for YEARS that we need to let the football people make the football decisions. Its finally happening. I'm not going to whine because some Kevin freaking OConnell is leaving.

Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1242340]JP Findlay mentioned that he believes Doug, Kyle, and Santos are safe for now.

While Schaffer was good and I wanted him to stay, he was also very close to Allen. I think that may be have been his undoing.[/quote]

Yeah, i listened to that too. I am curious whether, if they bring in someone in after the draft, if it would be to REPLACE any of those 3 or to be a team president-type whom the 3 of them would report to.

I don't see any reason why Doug has a job here based on anything he's done in the front office. He seems to be resting on his laurels and I don't like that. Could care less about Santos one way or the other. Really impressed with everything Kyle Smith has been able to do IN SPITE of Allen and Snyder's meddling, so I hope that, if we bring someone in, we can somehow keep Kyle.

Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

I am seeing reports that Scott Turner has been hired as the OC.

Also, the Giants may be looking at Jason Garrett for their OC.

Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

[QUOTE=BigHairedAristocrat;1242341]And he really improved their offense - with a 3rd string QB - in those 4 weeks.



What has KOC ever done here to care about? He's NOT Matt Lafleur and he's certainly not Sean McVay. He may be there one day, but he's nowhere close to being in their league now.



KOC's days here were numbered the second the season was over. It would have been foolish to promote him to HC and unreasonable to expect any new HC to just hand him the job based on the mediocre (at best) job he'd done here. KOC and Turner are basically on the same level as far as i'm concerned.



Snyder was quick and decisive in hiring Rivera - clearly the top HC candidate in the offseason - and Rivera has been quick and decisive in assembling his staff. Its clear that Rivera is getting his top choices and not settling for anything. We've been screaming for YEARS that we need to let the football people make the football decisions. Its finally happening. I'm not going to whine because some Kevin freaking OConnell is leaving.[/QUOTE]Just clarifying, I am fine that Rivera is hiring his guy. I was not a KOC must stay guy. But to say that KOC hasn't proven anything here is as true as Scott Turner hasn't proven anything either. Hopefully Scott Turner comes in, develops a relationship with Haskins, and our offense takes off.

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Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

From 9:50 this morning

[quote]Albert Breer‏Verified account @AlbertBreer
Source: The Redskins are hiring ex-Panthers assistant Scott Turner as their new offensive coordinator. They’re working on finalizing his contract now.[/quote]


[url]https://twitter.com/AlbertBreer/status/1214604985897553920[/url]

Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

Story on Scott Turner working with Cam Newton:

[url]https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/09/05/cam-newton-carolina-panthers-scott-turner[/url]

Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1242350]Story on Scott Turner working with Cam Newton:

[url]https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/09/05/cam-newton-carolina-panthers-scott-turner[/url][/quote]

Wouldn't be shocked if Cam came here for a year and Haskins learned behind him.

Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

Turner's plan for the Redskins:

[url]https://youtu.be/IC5YozmvPpM[/url]

Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1242352]Turner's plan for the Redskins:

[url]https://youtu.be/IC5YozmvPpM[/url][/quote]

That was a bad rick roll, you got roll right into the rick it started with some weird halo rap.

Come on man you are rusty.

Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;1242314]KOC was an OC for like 5 minutes as well, and presided over the worst offense in the league. Turner is, by default, an upgrade.[/quote]

You're trying to make it into a black-and-white thing with the stats, but it's not so cut and dry.

We had the worst offense in the league because we stuck a rookie quarterback out there who wasn't ready, with 3 rookie wideouts and Trey Quinn/Paul Richardson, and a 3rd string TE as the starter. And your starting running back missed half the year, came back and played like 6ish? games and then got injured again, and his backup is a 35yo HOFer who isn't the guy he once was.

Whereas if you look at the detailed picture, you'd see after struggling initially Haskins and co. came on strong in the last 2 games before Haskins got hurt. So there are pieces to work with for next year, and acting like KOC should've hit the ground running as soon as he became playcaller, with the talent he had to work with, is asinine.

Anyways it's a moot point because KOC is leaving. But the shit on him here knowing the talent he had to work with and all the dysfunction on the coaching and training staffs is amazing. [URL="https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25879982/kevin-oconnell-promoted-redskins-offensive-coordinator?device=featurephone"]There's a reason multiple teams wanted to interview him after 2018. [/URL]

Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

I’m fine with letting KOC leave and if Turner is who RR wants in RR I trust. I’m stoked we hired him. However, my only concern is based off of the reports I’ve heard about Haskins ability to learn a playbook over the course of his first season. Unsure how true they are, but I’ve read multiple times he struggled to pickup the playbook so him having to start ALL over worries me especially when he was finally appearing to pick things up there at the end of the season. I hope it doesn’t look like we’re starting from scratch come week 1 next year. The one caveat to all that is The Grudens are known to have an unnecessarily complex playbook and play calling style.

Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;1242314]KOC was an OC for like 5 minutes as well, and presided over the worst offense in the league. Turner is, by default, an upgrade.[/quote]

Actually he was the OC the entire year. But that's besides the point. You're asking a young QB who played one year of college, struggled with the playbook, protections, formations and spitting out the plays correctly to start all over. Once he finally starts to get all that down and we see a little bit of progress you make him learn a new offense.

I feel that RR should have taken notice of the things I mentioned and left KOC in place because that was what's best for DH.

As others have mentioned everyone does the good old boy hires in the NFL. I get that. It's just part of the business that will never change.

Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

[quote=mooby;1242357]You're trying to make it into a black-and-white thing with the stats, but it's not so cut and dry.

We had the worst offense in the league because we stuck a rookie quarterback out there who wasn't ready, with 3 rookie wideouts and Trey Quinn/Paul Richardson, and a 3rd string TE as the starter. And your starting running back missed half the year, came back and played like 6ish? games and then got injured again, and his backup is a 35yo HOFer who isn't the guy he once was.

Whereas if you look at the detailed picture, you'd see after struggling initially Haskins and co. came on strong in the last 2 games before Haskins got hurt. So there are pieces to work with for next year, and acting like KOC should've hit the ground running as soon as he became playcaller, with the talent he had to work with, is asinine.

Anyways it's a moot point because KOC is leaving. But the shit on him here knowing the talent he had to work with and all the dysfunction on the coaching and training staffs is amazing. [URL="https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25879982/kevin-oconnell-promoted-redskins-offensive-coordinator?device=featurephone"]There's a reason multiple teams wanted to interview him after 2018. [/URL][/quote]

This...

Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1242360]Actually he was the OC the entire year. But that's besides the point. You're asking a young QB who played one year of college, struggled with the playbook, protections, formations and spitting out the plays correctly to start all over. Once he finally starts to get all that down and we see a little bit of progress you make him learn a new offense.

[B]I feel that RR should have taken notice of the things I mentioned and left KOC in place because that was what's best for DH.[/B]

As others have mentioned everyone does the good old boy hires in the NFL. I get that. It's just part of the business that will never change.[/quote]

I want to play devil's advocate here. What if KOC disagree with Riveria's coaching/teaching strategies in general? Should Riveria still keep KOC, just for sake of the continuity?

Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

[quote=mredskins;1242351]Wouldn't be shocked if Cam came here for a year and Haskins learned behind him.[/quote]

Haskins doesn't need to be sitting behind anyone. He needs to play.

Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

[quote=GridIron26;1242362]I want to play devil's advocate here. What if KOC disagree with Riveria's coaching/teaching strategies in general? Should Riveria still keep KOC, just for sake of the continuity?[/quote]

No, I'm going on the assumption that RR wanted to bring in his own guy which is Norv's son.

Anyhow it looks like Scott Turner has certainly paid his dues as he's been an assistant since 2005.

Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

[QUOTE=JoLo;1242358]I’m fine with letting KOC leave and if Turner is who RR wants in RR I trust. I’m stoked we hired him. However, my only concern is based off of the reports I’ve heard about Haskins ability to learn a playbook over the course of his first season. Unsure how true they are, but I’ve read multiple times he struggled to pickup the playbook so him having to start ALL over worries me especially when he was finally appearing to pick things up there at the end of the season. I hope it doesn’t look like we’re starting from scratch come week 1 next year. The one caveat to all that is The Grudens are known to have an unnecessarily complex playbook and play calling style.[/QUOTE]


I don’t think he struggled to pick up things as much as he wasn’t taking things seriously enough in the beginning. Once he did he took off.



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Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

[QUOTE=MTK;1242365]I don’t think he struggled to pick up things as much as he wasn’t taking things seriously enough in the beginning. Once he did he took off.



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I heard that too, that he put absolutely no time into watching film and stuff. I personally think he’s got a ton of talent and he seems quite smart. When he throws the ball it jumps off the screen like only a few quarterbacks balls in the league. But that’s worrisome if he’s not willing to put in the work at the position of quarterback.

Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

[quote=JoLo;1242366]I heard that too, that he put absolutely no time into watching film and stuff. I personally think he’s got a ton of talent and he seems quite smart. When he throws the ball it jumps off the screen like only a few quarterbacks balls in the league. But that’s worrisome if he’s not willing to put in the work at the position of quarterback.[/quote]

AP called him out and told him to start studying he playbook. To me that is worrisome. He should not have to be told to study.

He is young and sometimes people need a fire lite under their ass. He did show progress in the final 4 games. We won't really know for a year or two.

Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

He’s a kid, and up until the NFL he was probably able to get by on his ability alone. He showed a lot of growth down the stretch, I think that will only continue.


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Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

[quote=GridIron26;1242362]I want to play devil's advocate here. What if KOC disagree with Riveria's coaching/teaching strategies in general? Should Riveria still keep KOC, just for sake of the continuity?[/quote]

You can play devil's advocate, I am a KOC fan and since Scott Turner is now our offensive coordinator I am now a Turner fan too.

But the bottom line is this:

Ron Rivera needs a coaching staff that will reinforce everything he teaches. He has to be in cohesion with his assistants because the players need to hear the same message from any coach no matter who it is. If KOC taught Haskins something that Rivera didn't agree with, it could cause setbacks in his development. That's why I'm not opposed to KOC leaving. The coaching staff has to have a unified philosophy.