Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

No state has done things "perfectly", but clearly some have and continue to drop the ball more than others. Why is that a crime to point out? Florida had beaches full of people when other states were shutting down. Wrastling is deemed essential?

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=MTK;1249326]No state has done things "perfectly", but clearly some have and continue to drop the ball more than others. Why is that a crime to point out? Florida had beaches full of people when other states were shutting down. Wrastling is deemed essential?[/quote]

Lol..wrastling..def not essential for me

“The order that was signed on Thursday states that employees at professional sports and media production with a national audience can continue only if the location is closed to the general public. This essential service was added because it is critical to Florida's economy.”

The order applies to other companies and organizations, not just WWE. If closed to the public and doing it due diligence... You know what’s the big deal?

I think the beaches shoulda been closed to spring breakers though, that was dumb, but the young folks not only traveled to beaches, they traveled overseas to Europe, they traveled to NYC, they traveled all over the country...they made choice, parents didn’t step in...the ones who paid for most of them. Bad decisions abound.

I know in this area, some of first people who tested positive was a senior came from Florida and spread it to a retirement home where it’s killed like 40 there, the First person who tested in my county where I was born was a college student who went to Europe spring break and the first police officer who test positive traveled to NYC and brought it back. People made choices

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=jamf;1249323]So dramatic!
If you can't be critical of the Florida Governor claiming the WWE is an essential business then you are lost.[/quote]

Dramatic because you want to set a criteria of Blue vs Red in a world pandemic...I guess I should be laughing at infection rates and deaths in Chicago, Michigan, NYC, Philadelphia and saying, these dumb democratic M'fers leading the country in Coronavirus cause they voted for Hillary? Come on

Is this just news because the Gov is a republican? Really who cares?

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

It would appear at least so far, that the individual states so far who have launched their own task forces / groups dedicated to re-opening their states for business seem to be politically divided. It appears that Republican ran states are eager to re-open again and are waiting for guidance / advice from the federal gov't / CDC, etc...

Democrat controlled states seem to be pushing back and trying to stay shut down as long as possible. Take Ralph Northam for example, whose June 10th order is currently the longest in the USA.

So it looks like there is going to be a big fight once again between Republicans and Democrats. This is one time that I hope the republicans win because i'm not sure how anyone thinks something good can come out of people being out of work until the end of the year / through next year, etc...

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

There have been atrocious acts on both sides of the aisle. What about the governor of Rhode Island turning the national guard and police on out of state tourists? What about the governor of California spreading panic saying 25 million Californians would get sick? Obviously Trump is the worst of them all, it seems now he believes he can appoint himself dictator.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=Chico23231;1249329] Really who cares?[/quote]



.............evidently you do.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;1249330]It would appear at least so far, that the individual states so far who have launched their own task forces / groups dedicated to re-opening their states for business seem to be politically divided. It appears that Republican ran states are eager to re-open again and are waiting for guidance / advice from the federal gov't / CDC, etc...

Democrat controlled states seem to be pushing back and trying to stay shut down as long as possible. Take Ralph Northam for example, whose June 10th order is currently the longest in the USA.

So it looks like there is going to be a big fight once again between Republicans and Democrats. This is one time that I hope the republicans win because i'm not sure how anyone thinks something good can come out of people being out of work until the end of the year / through next year, etc...[/quote]

It’s not about one side winning or losing, its about coming together to get rid of this terrible Wuhan virus...and then opening parts of the country up to get back to normal life. Different ways to do that based on different affected regions.

We will beat this...but I think the more data we get, we are gonna find millions and millions had this extremely highly contagious virus and never showed a symptom.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=Chico23231;1249311]New York, New Jersey, Michigan, California did everything perfect? But a dishonest media to cherry pick simply based on political position is expected I guess. De Blasio had the kids in school in mid march

Do you find it great that the media is high fiving that people are getting sick simply based on politics? When I look at the maps of infections and death rates should I be celebrating the deaths in Democratic run areas? What country do I live in, seriously[/quote]

..........triggered.:bdh:

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;1249330]It would appear at least so far, that the individual states so far who have launched their own task forces / groups dedicated to re-opening their states for business seem to be politically divided. It appears that Republican ran states are eager to re-open again and are waiting for guidance / advice from the federal gov't / CDC, etc...

Democrat controlled states seem to be pushing back and trying to stay shut down as long as possible. Take Ralph Northam for example, whose June 10th order is currently the longest in the USA.

So it looks like there is going to be a big fight once again between Republicans and Democrats. This is one time that I hope the republicans win because i'm not sure how anyone thinks something good can come out of people being out of work until the end of the year / through next year, etc...[/quote]

Who has said anything about people being out of work for the rest of this year or into next year?

There's a fine line with no black or white answer as far as how to restart the economy while also trying to keep thousands more from dying.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=MTK;1249337]Who has said anything about people being out of work for the rest of this year or into next year?

There's a fine line with no black or white answer as far as how to restart the economy while also trying to keep thousands more from dying.[/quote]

Neel Kashkari - says that America should be shutdown between 18 and 24 more months...

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;1249347]Neel Kashkari - says that America should be shutdown between 18 and 24 more months...[/quote]

Let's dive into what he said exactly...

[quote]Kashkari, while acknowledging the downside of what a prolonged shutdown could mean for the economy, said the U.S., “barring some health-care miracle,” is looking at an 18-month strategy of rolling shutdowns based on what has happened in other countries.

“We could have these waves of flare-ups, controls, flare-ups and controls, until we actually get a therapy or a vaccine,” he said. “We need to find ways of getting the people who are healthy, who are at lower risk, back to work and then providing the assistance to those who are most at risk, who are going to need to be quarantined or isolated for the foreseeable future.”[/quote]

No argument there, multiple waves of this are expected, although the hope is they lessen in severity each time and with a flattened curve hospitals won't be overwhelmed.

[quote]“This could be a long, hard road that we have ahead of us until we get to either an effective therapy or a vaccine,” he said. “It’s hard for me to see a V-shaped recovery under that scenario.”[/quote]

Again, common sense. Until there are effective treatments and ultimately a vaccine the virus isn't going to disappear on it's own. But we're still finding out that more people than previously thought are asymptomatic so we don't truly know how deadly it is. It very well still could be a severe flu in comparison.

He's not saying the entire country should remain locked down for 18-24 months, just that the rolling stops and starts could extend that long.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

IMO, you can't keep pushing the food chain workers or Hospital workers like has been happening . once this takes over in there ,yes there will be absolute panic and then what? I realise this is important please make no mistake but the Country can not go into lock down Marshal law and that is what some are preaching .

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

This may sound ignorant but what are we supposed to do? Wait a year or two for a vaccine to come out and bankrupt the country and ourselves because less than 1% of the people (most w/ serious underlying conditions) are at risk? I'm sorry but that doesn't sit well w/ me.

It's time to get back to a normal life, open up the economy imo. The people who have underlying conditions stay the hell home, work from home, wait it out and keep your distance.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;1249364]This may sound ignorant but what are we supposed to do? Wait a year or two for a vaccine to come out and bankrupt the country and ourselves because less than 1% of the people (most w/ serious underlying conditions) are at risk? I'm sorry but that doesn't sit well w/ me.



It's time to get back to a normal life, open up the economy imo. The people who have underlying conditions stay the hell home, work from home, wait it out and keep your distance.[/QUOTE]34 states have less than 200 deaths.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;1249364]This may sound ignorant but what are we supposed to do? Wait a year or two for a vaccine to come out and bankrupt the country and ourselves because less than 1% of the people (most w/ serious underlying conditions) are at risk? I'm sorry but that doesn't sit well w/ me.

It's time to get back to a normal life, open up the economy imo. The people who have underlying conditions stay the hell home, work from home, wait it out and keep your distance.[/QUOTE]


Well yeah, that’s the direction we’re headed in, not as easy at it sounds though depending on where you live


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1249364]This may sound ignorant but what are we supposed to do? Wait a year or two for a vaccine to come out and bankrupt the country and ourselves because less than 1% of the people (most w/ serious underlying conditions) are at risk? I'm sorry but that doesn't sit well w/ me.

It's time to get back to a normal life, open up the economy imo. The people who have underlying conditions stay the hell home, work from home, wait it out and keep your distance.[/quote]

That's exactly what the governors seem to want to do. I think they realized long ago that the country would bankrupt, and their mentality now is just kind of like "F It".

USA is on a fast track to becoming bankrupt as a country, like i said, 300 + million people out of work by years end. This could be the end of us as the world power, i think in many ways it already is.

to be clear: I AM NOT A TRUMP SUPPORTER - but Trump seems like the only guy who wants to try and get America going again, and he is being met with resistance at every turn. I believe now that the governors WANT to bankrupt their states just so they can go to Trump and say "F You, we will never open again because YOU want us to".

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;1249379]That's exactly what the governors seem to want to do. I think they realized long ago that the country would bankrupt, and their mentality now is just kind of like "F It".

USA is on a fast track to becoming bankrupt as a country, like i said, 300 + million people out of work by years end. This could be the end of us as the world power, i think in many ways it already is.

to be clear: I AM NOT A TRUMP SUPPORTER - but Trump seems like the only guy who wants to try and get America going again, and he is being met with resistance at every turn. I believe now that the governors WANT to bankrupt their states just so they can go to Trump and say "F You, we will never open again because YOU want us to".[/quote]

Snake, I am sorry but you are going off the rails with this. Has anybody ever told you cutting off the hand to spite the face is nonsense?

Governors are preparing the way they're preparing because Trump said the states need to be running point on this, and the feds are the backup option. This is what happens when the leader of this nation doesn't take charge and aggressively act before the outbreak to stop it. Now it's widespread and we can only hope to contain it. Everything we do from this point on is about limiting the damage. Restoring societal norms even a month from now would be a disaster, and it would only allow COVID-19 to keep spreading. Is it safe to assume from your response you are alright with however many people have to die just to try and save the economy? And the hospital system being overwhelmed for however long it takes to find a vaccine?

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;1249379]That's exactly what the governors seem to want to do. I think they realized long ago that the country would bankrupt, and their mentality now is just kind of like "F It".

USA is on a fast track to becoming bankrupt as a country, like i said, 300 + million people out of work by years end. This could be the end of us as the world power, i think in many ways it already is.

to be clear: I AM NOT A TRUMP SUPPORTER - but Trump seems like the only guy who wants to try and get America going again, and he is being met with resistance at every turn. I believe now that the governors WANT to bankrupt their states just so they can go to Trump and say "F You, we will never open again because YOU want us to".[/quote]

Your post makes zero sense.

[quote]On Monday, Newsom along with Washington Gov. Jay Inslee and Oregon Gov. Kate Brown announced a regional partnership to coordinate the reopening of the West Coast. In the northeast, seven other states, including New York and New Jersey, the two hardest-hit states by the coronavirus, announced a similar plan to coordinate reopening.

With the exception of Massachusetts, all ten states actively developing plans to reopen are led by Democratic governors.[/quote]

[URL="https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/14/california-gov-gavin-newsom-unveils-guide-to-lifting-coronavirus-restrictions.html"]LINK[/URL]

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1249364]This may sound ignorant but what are we supposed to do? Wait a year or two for a vaccine to come out and bankrupt the country and ourselves because less than 1% of the people (most w/ serious underlying conditions) are at risk? I'm sorry but that doesn't sit well w/ me.

It's time to get back to a normal life, open up the economy imo. The people who have underlying conditions stay the hell home, work from home, wait it out and keep your distance.[/quote]

That shows a lack of understanding of math & statistics though. This plan will result in a spike such that more people will need ventilators at the same time than we actually have ventilators. Meaning those people that can't get access to a ventilator will die, when they otherwise might have been saved.

So you're not just talking about a threat to the 1%. You're talking about adding another 0.2% on top of the 1% it will already kill under normal course.

In other words, you're advocating for causing more death. Now, you don't know you're doing that, because you don't understand the math. So it's not like I'm accusing you of callousness, just ignorance of the statistics.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=mooby;1249380]Snake, I am sorry but you are going off the rails with this. Has anybody ever told you cutting off the hand to spite the face is nonsense?

Governors are preparing the way they're preparing because Trump said the states need to be running point on this, and the feds are the backup option. This is what happens when the leader of this nation doesn't take charge and aggressively act before the outbreak to stop it. Now it's widespread and we can only hope to contain it. Everything we do from this point on is about limiting the damage. Restoring societal norms even a month from now would be a disaster, and it would only allow COVID-19 to keep spreading. Is it safe to assume from your response you are alright with however many people have to die just to try and save the economy? And the hospital system being overwhelmed for however long it takes to find a vaccine?[/quote]

No one here has to apologize to me for anything they say to me. I consider you all friends, and in any debate we have i imagine it being no different than just some guys/gals sitting around the bbq having different opinions.

I have felt that what they want from the beginning is to keep all businesses / schools, etc. closed until they come up with a vaccine two years or so from now.

They don't seem to have the ability to draw a line between public health and economic / country health. Right now the mentality seems to be one OR the other. I think there is a way to do both. I do not want people to die, but they are going to keep dying every day even in spite of coronavirus, there are still other things like cancer, car crashes, drug overdoses, suicides, homicides, etc. and society has never had to shut down because of this.

Many of the jobs lost will never come back. In this country, you have likely already seen the end of movie theaters, theme parks, etc. Possibly school. Soon maybe, professional sports. Restaurants are hanging on, but even with curbside options they wont last forever. Those things wont be able to attempt a comeback until there is a vaccine years down the road.

And my fear lies that with so many people unemployed, the system is strained beyond the capacity that it was ever intended for. Unemployment benefits depend on taxes to fund it. With 85% of your country unemployed by the end of the year, what happens when there is no more money to pay all of the people out of work? As companies and entire industries continue to go out of business, the next thing will be massive food shortages as farms / meat suppliers, etc. go out of business. Trucking companies, with nothing to haul anywhere, fold up. Its an avalanche/snowball effect that only finishes when everything has been destroyed and society builds back.

I hope that the USA is looking at other countries that are (so far) easing restrictions and slowly and gradually returning to normal, and I hope we are learning something from them. This is a time where all nations can work together and put aside differences for a common good.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=Schneed10;1249383]That shows a lack of understanding of math & statistics though. This plan will result in a spike such that more people will need ventilators at the same time than we actually have ventilators. Meaning those people that can't get access to a ventilator will die, when they otherwise might have been saved.

So you're not just talking about a threat to the 1%. You're talking about adding another 0.2% on top of the 1% it will already kill under normal course.

In other words, you're advocating for causing more death. Now, you don't know you're doing that, because you don't understand the math. So it's not like I'm accusing you of callousness, just ignorance of the statistics.[/quote]

So then to make sure i am understanding you, the only thing we can do is hide in our homes for two more years or so until they get a successful vaccine. I am not being a smartass, i am asking you.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=Schneed10;1249383]That shows a lack of understanding of math & statistics though. This plan will result in a spike such that more people will need ventilators at the same time than we actually have ventilators. Meaning those people that can't get access to a ventilator will die, when they otherwise might have been saved.

So you're not just talking about a threat to the 1%. You're talking about adding another 0.2% on top of the 1% it will already kill under normal course.

In other words, you're advocating for causing more death. Now, you don't know you're doing that, because you don't understand the math. So it's not like I'm accusing you of callousness, just ignorance of the statistics.[/quote]

The tone of your comments (as usual) have contempt in them. I'm not going down this road with you. I just wanted to say my .02. That's all. I'm outta this thread.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1249364]This may sound ignorant but what are we supposed to do? Wait a year or two for a vaccine to come out and bankrupt the country and ourselves because less than 1% of the people (most w/ serious underlying conditions) are at risk? I'm sorry but that doesn't sit well w/ me.

It's time to get back to a normal life, open up the economy imo. [B]The people who have underlying conditions stay the hell home, work from home, wait it out and keep your distance.[/B][/quote]

I agree with you 100% and I am in an extremely high risk group as I have congestive heart failure, diabetes and 59 years old. I have changed a few things I do, but I am not going to wear a hazmat suit in public. I do live in a sparsely populated area. I almost have to laugh at all the people around me wearing masks and gloves, most don't know how to properly use them. They might as well not be wearing them at all. In fact they probably are putting themselves more at risk as it gives them a false sense of security.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

Quote:
On Monday, Newsom along with Washington Gov. Jay Inslee and Oregon Gov. Kate Brown announced a regional partnership to coordinate the reopening of the West Coast. In the northeast, seven other states, including New York and New Jersey, the two hardest-hit states by the coronavirus, announced a similar plan to coordinate reopening.

With the exception of Massachusetts, all ten states actively developing plans to reopen are led by Democratic governors.

Did anyone see Newsome's 6 point plan? That stuff isn't happening any time soon. It makes mention of physical distancing in schools, like that is possible without building a lot more new schools. His plan is a big of joke as his earlier claim that 25 million Californians will get sick. The dude just doesn't live in the real world.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=Buffalo Bob;1249393]Quote:
On Monday, Newsom along with Washington Gov. Jay Inslee and Oregon Gov. Kate Brown announced a regional partnership to coordinate the reopening of the West Coast. In the northeast, seven other states, including New York and New Jersey, the two hardest-hit states by the coronavirus, announced a similar plan to coordinate reopening.

With the exception of Massachusetts, all ten states actively developing plans to reopen are led by Democratic governors.

Did anyone see Newsome's 6 point plan? That stuff isn't happening any time soon. It makes mention of physical distancing in schools, like that is possible without building a lot more new schools. [B]His plan is a big of joke as his earlier claim that 25 million Californians will get sick.[/B] The dude just doesn't live in the real world.[/quote]

That was a worst case scenario but with how quickly things change and how little we still know with limited testing predictions were bound to be inaccurate

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=Buffalo Bob;1249391]I agree with you 100% and I am in an extremely high risk group as I have congestive heart failure, diabetes and 59 years old. I have changed a few things I do, but I am not going to wear a hazmat suit in public. I do live in a sparsely populated area. [B]I almost have to laugh at all the people around me wearing masks and gloves, most don't know how to properly use them. They might as well not be wearing them at all. In fact they probably are putting themselves more at risk as it gives them a false sense of security.[/quote][/B]

This

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

Economic impact can’t be denied. Here’s my trickle down effect. I’m a car accident attorney.

Paralegals hours cut to 2-3 days a week.
No new cases coming in and not sure we would take one unless it’s a former client/favor
Chiros, orthos, diagnostic centers are have very little business from the personal injury sector. Clients didn’t want to go in 2 months ago when so liv was unknown.
Courts closed.
Insurance companies = less new claims (Educated guess)
Yearly bonus? Highly doubt it, I’m thinking of telling them to cut my salaries pay check in half to help them

I don’t pretend to know what you do. I imagine you do a select well thought out reopening of certain businesses. But vital and hard hit businesses like restaurants can’t open.

Less deaths balanced against saving the economy. Good logical arguments for both sides. I think a tiered easing in is the way to go.

If the tepid slow down in new cases continues, then I think you start easing in in a month or two. Of course ... the tepid slow down is because the lock down is working so it’s a double edge sword.

Can’t deny the irony.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;1249386]So then to make sure i am understanding you, the only thing we can do is hide in our homes for two more years or so until they get a successful vaccine. I am not being a smartass, i am asking you.[/quote]

Not hide in our homes non stop for two years, but you watch the numbers closely. We should stay in our homes until the growth in new cases is down to a point where you can start to come out and play a little bit. Modelers can do the math to say if we have X number of new cases per day that equates to Y admissions to hospitals 7 days later, etc etc. As long as those expected admissions to hospitals are below the capacity of those hospitals, then you're good to come out and play.

That will spread the disease around a little more. But we should view that as an inevitability. When the disease starts to spike again and the new case growth gets too high, then we go back to social distancing.

And we might have to do that on/off/on/off approach for the next 18 months until we have a vaccine.

This helps you balance the economy a bit with the spread of the illness. This illness is going to kill a certain amount of people, you just want to give those people a chance to beat it with access to a ventilator and a hospital bed. If you can't give them a hospital bed and a ventilator then you've failed to fight the virus and it's resulted in more death than it needed to.

If we get a vaccine sooner, then all the better, but I'd expect to go on and off with stay at home orders for 18 months or so.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

US to buy 15 billion in dairy and food from farmers. (Most likely helping the Perdue companies of the world and not the family run farms). I’m fine with it, they need help and food is good. Better than just bailing them out.

Just wish we didn’t pump 28 billion over the last 2 years to farmers in, from what I read, was free money for the difference in what they sold their China tariffed food product for vs what it would have no trade war. I think we had to financially respond to China at some point so I’m fine with that to.

Idk ... just wish we didn’t run up the deficit so much during a good economy ... because now, hindsight’s a bitch.

[URL="http://https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/coronavirus-sonny-perdue-dairy-farmers-dump-milk"]http://https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/coronavirus-sonny-perdue-dairy-farmers-dump-milk[/URL]

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=Schneed10;1249418]Not hide in our homes non stop for two years, but you watch the numbers closely. We should stay in our homes until the growth in new cases is down to a point where you can start to come out and play a little bit. Modelers can do the math to say if we have X number of new cases per day that equates to Y admissions to hospitals 7 days later, etc etc. As long as those expected admissions to hospitals are below the capacity of those hospitals, then you're good to come out and play.

That will spread the disease around a little more. But we should view that as an inevitability. When the disease starts to spike again and the new case growth gets too high, then we go back to social distancing.

And we might have to do that on/off/on/off approach for the next 18 months until we have a vaccine.

This helps you balance the economy a bit with the spread of the illness. This illness is going to kill a certain amount of people, you just want to give those people a chance to beat it with access to a ventilator and a hospital bed. If you can't give them a hospital bed and a ventilator then you've failed to fight the virus and it's resulted in more death than it needed to.

If we get a vaccine sooner, then all the better, but I'd expect to go on and off with stay at home orders for 18 months or so.[/quote]

Here is the way I see it we have 619,000 confrimed cases and 27,000 confirmed deaths that is over a 4% fatality rate. If we factor in the CDC evaluation that 25% of cases are asymptomatic at the most we are lookuing at 774,000 cases. Even with that value the death rate is 3.5%. This is all with the measures in place. This isn't even including an exteremly high hospitilization rate [url]https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6915e3.htm[/url] (For March ). If we remove stay at home orders what does that infection rate jump to? Are we really willing to risk a 3.5% death rate with a much larger infected population? If people are worried about the economy they really need to think about what those values would do to the economy.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=BaltimoreSkins;1249426]Here is the way I see it we have 619,000 confrimed cases and 27,000 confirmed deaths that is over a 4% fatality rate. If we factor in the CDC evaluation that 25% of cases are asymptomatic at the most we are lookuing at 774,000 cases. Even with that value the death rate is 3.5%. This is all with the measures in place. This isn't even including an exteremly high hospitilization rate [url]https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6915e3.htm[/url] (For March ). If we remove stay at home orders what does that infection rate jump to? Are we really willing to risk a 3.5% death rate with a much larger infected population? If people are worried about the economy they really need to think about what those values would do to the economy.[/quote]

I guess some of the thought process says that if you shut down all restaurants, schools, hotels, malls, etc... for at least the two years that it takes to get a vaccine out to the masses, is there permanent economic damage done by that point. Could the country have collapsed in that time frame?. Is there reasonable chances that the fed. government could collapse entirely within two years time, with the majority of people unemployed, etc...

I don't have these answers because i think we are in uncharted territory here, what is happening and what we are doing has never happened before. Two years of lockdowns, etc.. might be the death blow for America.

I would think at some point the massive food shortages, civil unrest, rioting, suicides, overdoses, etc. as people lose all hope, etc., would have also have an effect on the overall death toll. No easy answer. Who knows, before May 1st, maybe Trump and the governors realize that there is no way to re-open the states or the country, and we are on a doomed path and nothing we can do will change the course. I have no idea.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;1249428]I guess some of the thought process says that if you shut down all restaurants, schools, hotels, malls, etc... for at least the two years that it takes to get a vaccine out to the masses, is there permanent economic damage done by that point. [/quote]

I think we have already blown past the damage of the recession of 2008 and quickly headed to match the great depression. There are businesses killed off by the last recession that to this day have never come back, one was the limousine building industry I used to sell my own products to.

Over and above the businesses that did not survive this shutdown, the fall out will take out many others as people behave differently out of fear of being in crowds on top of people that change their spending habits. This is the first time in many peoples lives they have been blind sided by loss of income. Most people who have been fired or laid off saw it coming, this crisis was the exception to that rule. I believe it will cause people to increase their cash savings and rainy day fund like never before. Businesses who cater toward hobbies and entertainment are going to take a big hit as people are going to start saving a huge chunk of the money they spent on those items.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=Buffalo Bob;1249445]I think we have already blown past the damage of the recession of 2008 and quickly headed to match the great depression. There are businesses killed off by the last recession that to this day have never come back, one was the limousine building industry I used to sell my own products to.

Over and above the businesses that did not survive this shutdown, the fall out will take out many others as people behave differently out of fear of being in crowds on top of people that change their spending habits. This is the first time in many peoples lives they have been blind sided by loss of income. Most people who have been fired or laid off saw it coming, this crisis was the exception to that rule. I believe it will cause people to increase their cash savings and rainy day fund like never before. Businesses who cater toward hobbies and entertainment are going to take a big hit as people are going to start saving a huge chunk of the money they spent on those items.[/quote]

I agree. Interesting to see what happens with youth sports, it was a booming business. Not sure families will have extra cash anymore lying around for Johnnys fancy club team.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=mredskins;1249448]I agree. Interesting to see what happens with youth sports, it was a booming business. Not sure families will have extra cash anymore lying around for Johnnys fancy club team.[/quote]

Youth Sports are probably done for, at least until we get a vaccine. So i've been meaning to post this question for a while now, just to get your input, but what businesses / industries in America do you think will be permanently gone / forever changed? I'll give you my quick list:

[B]Gone:[/B]
Youth / High School Sports (Until we get a vaccine)
Cruise Ships
Beach Resorts
Theme Parks
Movie Theaters
Every retail store that isn't Wal-Mart or a Grocery Stores

[B]Permanently Changed:[/B]
Restaurants - dine in will never be allowed again
School - Schools will go to all distance learning until we get a vaccine
Grocery Stores - in person limit, rationing of certain items will continue for next several years
Travel - People will not be able to leave the USA unless it is proven to be for essential work, etc.
Public Parks - family gatherings, BBQ's etc will no longer be allowed

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

Some serious jumping to conclusions in here. Youth sports are not gone for good, that's nonsense. My kids are 13 and 10, and the first thing they'll do when this quarantine lifts is say when is practice?

And dine in restaurants will never be allowed again? lol

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

I feel like SS is just trolling at this point. No matter what anyone says he keeps coming back with the same doom and gloom, end of the world BS.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=MTK;1249466]I feel like SS is just trolling at this point. No matter what anyone says he keeps coming back with the same doom and gloom, end of the world BS.[/quote]

I promise i am not trolling. I would never do that here. I like this board and respect the opinions of all posters. So apologies to anyone who thinks I am trolling, because i am not.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=SunnySide;1249414] I’m a car accident attorney.
[/quote]

Do you have any idea how much the attorney ads on daytime broadcast TV out of Richmond could cost? Some of them that don't look like large firms seem to have an ad on almost every commercial break for hours on end. I go in the Richmond area quite a bit and have driven by the firms that advertise frequently and some of the offices are converted modest sized family homes. Those ads must not be that expensive or they pull in a lot of good paying business.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;1249462]Youth Sports are probably done for, at least until we get a vaccine. So i've been meaning to post this question for a while now, just to get your input, but what businesses / industries in America do you think will be permanently gone / forever changed? I'll give you my quick list:

[B]Gone:[/B]
Youth / High School Sports (Until we get a vaccine)
Cruise Ships
Beach Resorts
Theme Parks
Movie Theaters
Every retail store that isn't Wal-Mart or a Grocery Stores

[B]Permanently Changed:[/B]
Restaurants - dine in will never be allowed again
School - Schools will go to all distance learning until we get a vaccine
Grocery Stores - in person limit, rationing of certain items will continue for next several years
Travel - People will not be able to leave the USA unless it is proven to be for essential work, etc.
Public Parks - family gatherings, BBQ's etc will no longer be allowed[/quote]

I don't think any of that will be gone for good, it will just take a long time to come back to close to where it was, probably many years.

I definitely agree on the middle to high end retail stores getting hit hard. There are going to be a lot of Nordstrom shoppers ending up at Walmart and Target.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;1249462]Youth Sports are probably done for, at least until we get a vaccine. So i've been meaning to post this question for a while now, just to get your input, but what businesses / industries in America do you think will be permanently gone / forever changed? I'll give you my quick list:

[B]Gone:[/B]
Youth / High School Sports (Until we get a vaccine)
Cruise Ships
Beach Resorts
Theme Parks
Movie Theaters
Every retail store that isn't Wal-Mart or a Grocery Stores

[B]Permanently Changed:[/B]
Restaurants - dine in will never be allowed again
School - Schools will go to all distance learning until we get a vaccine
Grocery Stores - in person limit, rationing of certain items will continue for next several years
Travel - People will not be able to leave the USA unless it is proven to be for essential work, etc.
Public Parks - family gatherings, BBQ's etc will no longer be allowed[/quote]

I know this has already garnered several responses, but I am amazed someone/anyone would even write this list. The economic toll on some industries will impact their future, but the rest of these are just beyond bizarro world thinking. Not one thing on this list has a remote chance of being true 6 months from now.

Other than Cruise Ships, every industry you list under gone will be revitalized as the economy is reopened and people can get out of their houses and enjoy leisure activities again.

In the Permanently changed, the only one that has a slim chance of being true is more remote learning for high schools.