Re: Black Monday 2022 thread
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1309803]Get rid of the Rooney Rule and quit making a mockery out of this hiring process. Quit making these guys do interviews when they're never going to be hired.

Regarding McDaniels, it's called white privilege. What else is it if it isn't that? The guy totally bombed in Denver. He got caught up in a video taping issue. He pissed off everyone there and traded Cutler who at the time was a franchise QB. Didn't do shit in St. Louis when he was the OC, then finally leaves Indy handing.. Yet year after year he has his pick of NFL jobs. What a joke.[/quote]

Not to mention backing out of the Colts HC, which he got not long after he had tanked in Denver.

Re: Black Monday 2022 thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1309793]As I expected today, a lot of feelings expressed by Brian Flores and lawyers , but very little facts. Timelines and interviews with both the Giants and Broncos doesn’t support a claim. Also Vance Johnson had just been given 2 years with Denver and that’s the vacancy he was interviewing for.

Miami should be in deep shit with their tanking claims…but one thing I don’t understand is why Flores wouldn’t recruit the greatest QB to come there?

I think the Rooney rule does a lot of good. Maybe just get rid of it. Flores got a HC job for 3 years and seemed to be a surprise hire at the time.

There are 32 HC jobs…a small number. The NFL could open an investigation/case study into why each HC got his job. Look at the timing, the candidates, etc. And then present the results to the league.[/quote]
People hire people they feel comfortable with. People who see the things the way they do .In the case of the Giants Mara has been getting shit for butting in, well he gave full control to the new GM. Mara wanted Flores ,the new guy wanted Deboll . Flores was being interviewed this morning and couldn't answer any questions. If he is telling the truth then why not report the owner of the Dolphins for the bounty offer and you now want to sue the Broncos because of a job interview from 2019????WTF?

Re: Black Monday 2022 thread
 

[quote=Redskins247;1309725]Yeah I agree. Dolphins should lose multiple first round picks if not more. You know the NFL wants no part of "tanking" in their house.[/quote]

3 1st round picks at minimum (if true).

Re: Black Monday 2022 thread
 

[quote=SunnySide;1309778]Messing with Vegas money lines, integrity of the game .... this thing has tentacles.

Would love Brian to come here and replace Del Rio. he knows hes sacrificing his career for the greater good of POC candidates to follow.[/quote]

If Snyder hired him, the other owners might finally make Snyder sell. I don't want Flores to be involved in our Snyder shit.

But if we were owned by any other guy (not including Ross) I'd hire him easily.

Re: Black Monday 2022 thread
 

The lack of minority coaches and executives in the NFL has been a joke for a long time. They made it even more of a joke by implementing this Rooney rule that most teams just circumvent and hire who they want anyway.

Kudos to Flores for shining a brighter light on that, at his own (huge) expense. Can't imagine the feeling, sitting through an interview for your dream job, knowing that every person in the room knows you aren't getting the job, and you are just there because you are black, and that's the rule.

This league just continues to impress...

Re: Black Monday 2022 thread
 

Happy for O'Connell too bad it wasn't us.

[url]https://www.yahoo.com/sports/report-vikings-expected-hire-kevin-013222601.html[/url]

Re: Black Monday 2022 thread
 

Here is a time line and explanation of how Flores was used to fulfill the Rooney Rule [url]https://larrybrownsports.com/football/timeline-new-york-giants-head-coach-interviews-rooney-rule-requirement/591390?amp[/url]

Re: Black Monday 2022 thread
 

The Jay Gruden coaching tree looks better than belichick

Re: Black Monday 2022 thread
 

We certainly have had a lot of very good assistant coaches here ..

Re: Black Monday 2022 thread
 

[quote=BaltimoreSkins;1309849]Here is a time line and explanation of how Flores was used to fulfill the Rooney Rule [url]https://larrybrownsports.com/football/timeline-new-york-giants-head-coach-interviews-rooney-rule-requirement/591390?amp[/url][/quote]

Yup looks like what you might expect. Being mad is fine, but the due diligence was done with multiple minority candidates. When the guy from Buffalo was made GM..the other Brian become the understandable favorite.

Flores did a good job In Miami…but u read why he was fired there by respectable journalists like Jeff Darlington, he had a lot of problems in the front the office and he wasn’t well like in the locker room including the QB. He needs a change of scenery with a better org. Maybe the Saints..,think that would be a good fit

Re: Black Monday 2022 thread
 

[quote=jamf;1309850]The Jay Gruden coaching tree looks better than belichick[/quote]

The tree that really is golden is the Shanny. And another one is about to take the Viking HC job. Rams, Packers, San Fran, Bengals and now the Vikings.

Re: Black Monday 2022 thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1309852]Yup looks like what you might expect. Being mad is fine, but the due diligence was done with multiple minority candidates. When the guy from Buffalo was made GM..the other Brian become the understandable favorite.

Flores did a good job In Miami…but u read why he was fired there by respectable journalists like Jeff Darlington, he had a lot of problems in the front the office and he wasn’t well like in the locker room including the QB. He needs a change of scenery with a better org. Maybe the Saints..,think that would be a good fit[/quote]

Looking at the time line I would agree that I don't see racism at play but it is possible there is a violation of the Rooney Rule. If Daboll was hired at the time estimated none of the minority candidates were interviewed until after the hire. Only Frazier and Flores in person meet the requirements. If there is evidence other than the Belichick text it could be an issue for the Giants as a violation but I don't see racism. I looked into it there is precedent for a penalty levied, the 2003 Detroit Lions. Reading this though it is up to interpretation by the commissioners office and I don't expect Goodell to do anything to his buddy Mara

Interesting look at Rooney Rule and how enforcement can be implemented
[url]https://www.acslaw.org/wp-content/uploads/old-uploads/originals/documents/Proxmire_Issue_Brief.pdf[/url]

Re: Black Monday 2022 thread
 

Didn't they interview their old DC, Patrick Graham, at the start to comply with the Rooney rule?

Re: Black Monday 2022 thread
 

[quote=EdmundDorf;1309874]Didn't they interview their old DC, Patrick Graham, at the start to comply with the Rooney rule?[/quote]

It was a total of 3 minority candidates for the Giants. You don’t conduct 3 sham interviews, that’s silly and a waste of time.

Flores also met a couple times, including dinner the night before. Again you don’t do that if you are not serious

Re: Black Monday 2022 thread
 

[quote=EdmundDorf;1309874]Didn't they interview their old DC, Patrick Graham, at the start to comply with the Rooney rule?[/quote]

In house interviews do not count towards the Rooney Rule. I am also of the understanding that in house promotions do not need to abide by the Rooney Rule. I do not know why, it seems those are strange exemptions. Regardless the Graham interview occurred after the alleged Daboll hire according to the timeline.

Re: Black Monday 2022 thread
 

Thanks for the explanation

Re: Black Monday 2022 thread
 

The way I read the reporting, while he's named the Giants, Dolphins and Broncos in the suit, he's not suing all for racism directly. He's suing the NFL saying the Rooney Rule is a sham and thereby racist. He's suing the teams for bad faith; Giants interview was apparently post offering Daboll the job, making his interview a sham, the Broncos for interviewing him because they had to (they apparently didn't take the interview seriously by turning up hungover etc.) and the Dolphins case seems more like malfeasance than racism.

Could just be my interpretation of the news stories though.

Re: Black Monday 2022 thread
 

[quote=AnonEmouse;1309962]The way I read the reporting, while he's named the Giants, Dolphins and Broncos in the suit, he's not suing all for racism directly. He's suing the NFL saying the Rooney Rule is a sham and thereby racist. He's suing the teams for bad faith; Giants interview was apparently post offering Daboll the job, making his interview a sham, the Broncos for interviewing him because they had to (they apparently didn't take the interview seriously by turning up hungover etc.) and the Dolphins case seems more like malfeasance than racism.

Could just be my interpretation of the news stories though.[/quote]

That is what he is claiming but while some call it a sham lets not forget what happen to the Colts and the Jets when named HC after accepting the job walked away. John Mara called Flores and told him he was high on their list personally but Mara also gave the New GM Schoen the call to make.


To add while the Rooney rule isn't perfect no laws were broken there was no discrimination.

Re: Black Monday 2022 thread
 

[quote=BaltimoreSkins;1309849]Here is a time line and explanation of how Flores was used to fulfill the Rooney Rule [url]https://larrybrownsports.com/football/timeline-new-york-giants-head-coach-interviews-rooney-rule-requirement/591390?amp[/url][/quote]

Then there is this....................


STATEMENT FROM THE NEW YORK GIANTS:

February 3, 2022

Brian Flores has raised serious issues in the filing of his complaint. The specific claims against the Giants and Mr. Flores' allegations about the legitimacy of his candidacy for our head coach position are disturbing and simply false.

After we interviewed six exceptional and diverse candidates, the decision on who we would hire as head coach was made on the evening of January 28, one day after Mr. Flores spent an entire day in our offices going through his second interview for the position, meeting with ownership and other staff members, and receiving a tour of our facility. (See the itinerary below). There is additional concrete and objective evidence to substantiate we did not make our decision until the evening of the 28th.

The allegation that the Giants' decision had been made prior to Friday evening, January 28, is false. And to base that allegation on a text exchange with Bill Belichick in which he ultimately states that he "thinks" Brian Daboll would get the job is irresponsible. The text exchange occurred the day before Coach Daboll's in-person interview even took place. Giants' ownership would never hire a head coach based only on a 20-minute zoom interview, which is all that Mr. Daboll had at that point.

In addition, Mr. Belichick does not speak for and has no affiliation with the Giants. Mr. Belichick's text exchange provides no insight into what actually transpired during our head coaching search.

It has been well documented how much research and due diligence we did on Mr. Flores as it related to his candidacy. John Mara called Mr. Flores two days after he was dismissed in Miami. Mr. Mara expressed to Mr. Flores in that January 12 call that once we had our new general manager in place, we would begin the process of hiring our head coach and we wanted to meet with Mr. Flores because we considered him a serious candidate for the position. Mr. Mara and Mr. Flores then had their first formal conversation in a 25-30 minute zoom call on January 18 (at Mr. Flores' request) to further discuss his candidacy.

In between those initial conversations and Mr. Flores' in-person interview on January 27, there were several other communications between Mr. Flores and members of our organization. This included a dinner with our newly hired general manager, Joe Schoen, the night before Mr. Flores's in-person interview. The consensus from within the Giants organization after this dinner remained that Mr. Flores was an outstanding candidate, and we looked forward to sitting down with him in person the next day.

Our hiring process and, most certainly, our consideration of Mr. Flores was serious and genuine. We are disappointed to learn that Mr. Flores was under the mistaken impression the job had already been awarded.

In his CBS interview yesterday, Mr. Flores was asked if "clubs have the right to hire the person they think is the best qualified for the job or the person they feel is right for them?" Mr. Flores responded "They do. That's very reasonable to me . . .". That is exactly what we did.

We hired Brian Daboll as our head coach at the conclusion of an open and thorough interview process. No decision was made, and no job offer was extended, until the evening of January 28, a full day after Mr. Flores' in-person interview and day-long visit to the Giants.

Brian Flores Interview Itinerary – Head Football Coach

January 27, 2022

8:45am – arrival at Quest (Joe Schoen)

9:00am – meet w/ John Mara, Chris Mara, Steve Tisch, & Joe Schoen

12:00pm – Lunch / Facility Tour – Tim McDonnell

1:00pm – Pat Hanlon/Jen Escalante/Dion Dargin

1:45pm – Ronnie Barnes/Jessie Armstead

2:30pm – Allison Stangeby/Pete Guelli

3:30pm – Joe Schoen

Re: Black Monday 2022 thread
 

That should be easy enough to verify. I still hope they are found in violation and have to pay a fine because:
A. It's the Giants
B. I hate the Giants
F. Mara

Re: Black Monday 2022 thread
 

The Rooney Rule is fucking stupid.

Force teams to interview someone they don't want to hire for the job, then call the interview a sham. Most of them probably are shams, but not always due to racism. I'd wager it's more than often that teams know who they want already and unless something went completely south in that process, that person was getting the job. I believe that's the case with Daboll as it relates to the Giants.

A sham rule will get sham results. Get rid of it.

If teams are too stupid to hire non-white candidates due to racism then that's their problem for limiting their options to find great coaches. Being racist makes your team less competitive on top of being wrong.

Note - I'm not talking about the situation with Flores and any teams involved specifically, this rule has been stupid since its inception. Imo it's patronizing AT BEST to minority candidates.

Re: Black Monday 2022 thread
 

[quote=BaltimoreSkins;1309986]That should be easy enough to verify. I still hope they are found in violation and have to pay a fine because:
A. It's the Giants
B. I hate the Giants
F. Mara[/quote]

I feel the love , I really do!!!:D

Re: Black Monday 2022 thread
 

[quote=AnonEmouse;1309962]The way I read the reporting, while he's named the Giants, Dolphins and Broncos in the suit, he's not suing all for racism directly. He's suing the NFL saying the Rooney Rule is a sham and thereby racist. He's suing the teams for bad faith; Giants interview was apparently post offering Daboll the job, making his interview a sham, the Broncos for interviewing him because they had to (they apparently didn't take the interview seriously by turning up hungover etc.) and the Dolphins case seems more like malfeasance than racism.

Could just be my interpretation of the news stories though.[/quote]

I´m not sure that interviewing Person B after offering the job to Person A makes it a sham.

When I was in a team leading position I regularly interviewed people even after sending out an offer to somebody else. Just in case the first candidate didn´t take our offer so we had a backup plan.

Just like when I looked for jobs I had multiple interviews even after being offered a job by a company I interviewed with before.

Re: Black Monday 2022 thread
 

Depends on the context of the interview, but I generally agree. I mean, if you interview and get told you have every chance of getting the job, then find out they'd already offered it, I'd say it was a sham or at least bad faith; if they seriously thought you were a contender before the interview they'd have held back the other offer.

And this is the NFL not ACME manufacturing. They know there's a massive spotlight on HC positions, so it doesn't make sense to me to make an offer without telling later candidates that's the case, because you should know that it might get out and make you look unprofessional. Or worse.

In this case it's going to be a question of establishing the factual timeline (BB's text isn't proof of anything beyond word of mouth). I don't know whether offering Daboll and then interviewing Flores (if that is the true timeline) would constitute an illegal act, but at best it doesn't reflect well on the Giants. But whatever, I think he's going to have a hard time showing it was racism, if that is his claim against the Giants.

Re: Black Monday 2022 thread
 

The 49ers are about to receive 2 3rd rounders cause McDaniel was hired by the Dolphins (he’s biracial) that’s 4 3rd rounders for them (Saleh last year).

[url]https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/dolphins-land-mike-mcdaniel-as-next-head-coach-miami-agrees-to-terms-with-49ers-offensive-coordinator/[/url]

Re: Black Monday 2022 thread
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;1310091]The 49ers are about to receive 2 3rd rounders cause McDaniel was hired by the Dolphins (he’s biracial) that’s 4 3rd rounders for them (Saleh last year).

[url]https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/dolphins-land-mike-mcdaniel-as-next-head-coach-miami-agrees-to-terms-with-49ers-offensive-coordinator/[/url][/quote]

Shanny tree growing…O’Connell and McDaniel.

Flores probably cringing a bit. L

Re: Black Monday 2022 thread
 

[url]https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/02/07/texans-choose-lovie-smith-as-their-next-head-coach/[/url]

You fire Culley who did a decent job and hire Lovie Smith? JFC…completely irrational management. They hired Lovie Smith over Flores?

Re: Black Monday 2022 thread
 

[quote=Giantone;1310056]I feel the love , I really do!!!:D[/quote]

Have nothing but love for you. It is your team and their owner I don't like!

Re: Black Monday 2022 thread
 

[QUOTE=Chico23231;1310167][url]https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/02/07/texans-choose-lovie-smith-as-their-next-head-coach/[/url]



You fire Culley who did a decent job and hire Lovie Smith? JFC…completely irrational management. They hired Lovie Smith over Flores?[/QUOTE]And people wonder why Watson wants out of Houston (besides getting away from the suits).

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

Re: Black Monday 2022 thread
 

[QUOTE=Chico23231;1310167][url]https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/02/07/texans-choose-lovie-smith-as-their-next-head-coach/[/url]

You fire Culley who did a decent job and hire Lovie Smith? JFC…completely irrational management. They hired Lovie Smith over Flores?[/QUOTE]


Terrible terrible hire. Flores is such a good coach.

Re: Black Monday 2022 thread
 

[quote=punch it in;1310173]Terrible terrible hire. Flores is such a good coach.[/quote]

Seriously? Smith took the Bears to the Super Bowl?

Re: Black Monday 2022 thread
 

Giants hired Martindale as the DC , very happy with that. Bad part is he is bringing Rob Ryan with him...that long haired fat POS!

Re: Black Monday 2022 thread
 

[quote=punch it in;1310173]Terrible terrible hire. Flores is such a good coach.[/quote]

[url]https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/brian-flores-lawyers-release-embarrassing-statement-after-the-texans-hire-lovie-smith/ar-AATCnwF?ocid=msedgntp[/url]




Flores’ attorneys Douglas H. Wigdor and John Elefterakis released the following statement in response to Smith being hired over their client, according to CBS Sports:

Mr. Flores is happy to hear that the Texans have hired a Black head coach, Lovie Smith, as Mr. Flores’ goal in bringing his case is to provide real opportunities for Black and minority candidates to be considered for coaching and executive positions within the NFL. However, we would be remiss not to mention that Mr. Flores was one of three finalists for the Texans’ head coach position and, after a great interview and mutual interest, it is obvious that the only reason Mr. Flores was not selected was his decision to stand up against racial inequality across the NFL.

Do Flores’ attorneys really think this is a wise strategy to help their client? Do they really think attacking the Texans for hiring a different black coach is a wise idea?

It seems very stupid, especially when there’s no proof on the table other than their own perceptions of the situation.

Re: Black Monday 2022 thread
 

You don't think maybe Goodell leaned on the Texans to take a black HC to head off just such a reaction/undermine the case?

Re: Black Monday 2022 thread
 

[quote=Giantone;1310262][url]https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/brian-flores-lawyers-release-embarrassing-statement-after-the-texans-hire-lovie-smith/ar-AATCnwF?ocid=msedgntp[/url]




Flores’ attorneys Douglas H. Wigdor and John Elefterakis released the following statement in response to Smith being hired over their client, according to CBS Sports:

Mr. Flores is happy to hear that the Texans have hired a Black head coach, Lovie Smith, as Mr. Flores’ goal in bringing his case is to provide real opportunities for Black and minority candidates to be considered for coaching and executive positions within the NFL. However, we would be remiss not to mention that Mr. Flores was one of three finalists for the Texans’ head coach position and, after a great interview and mutual interest, it is obvious that the only reason Mr. Flores was not selected was his decision to stand up against racial inequality across the NFL.

Do Flores’ attorneys really think this is a wise strategy to help their client? Do they really think attacking the Texans for hiring a different black coach is a wise idea?

It seems very stupid, especially when there’s no proof on the table other than their own perceptions of the situation.[/quote]

The guy was already on the staff.......... ppl are dumb.

Re: Black Monday 2022 thread
 

[quote=Meks;1310279]The guy was already on the staff.......... ppl are dumb.[/quote]

Who was?

Re: Black Monday 2022 thread
 

[QUOTE=AnonEmouse;1310272]You don't think maybe Goodell leaned on the Texans to take a black HC to head off just such a reaction/undermine the case?[/QUOTE]


No.

Re: Black Monday 2022 thread
 

[QUOTE=Giantone;1310282]Who was?[/QUOTE]


Smith was their dc.

Re: Black Monday 2022 thread
 

[QUOTE=Meks;1310279]The guy was already on the staff.......... ppl are dumb.[/QUOTE]


So what if he was? Flores is a better HC than him.

Re: Black Monday 2022 thread
 

I’m not as down on Lovie as others. His record in Chicago is legit but then again whose wouldn’t be with Smokin Jay slingin the rock for you.