Re: Bucs Postgame Thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;1094419]Hope we see some of the turds in the locker room flushed this offseason. Clearly not everyone is on the same page. [B]When DJ is calling guys out that's not good at all[/B].[/quote]

Seriously. Seems to me that the locker room culture is one where "I'm good enough" is an acceptable opinion.

Re: Bucs Postgame Thread
 

Good points from Keim:

[url=http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/13012/second-thoughts-redskins-bucs?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed]Second thoughts: Washington Redskins-Tampa Bay Buccaneers - ESPN[/url]

Re: Bucs Postgame Thread
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1094423]As to Oline, sure, we have only a couple guys in the 1st or 2nd round, but we have drafted several in the 3rd and 4th and more in the 6th and 7th. If you look around the league, lots of good, solid lines have guys who were drafted in later rounds or were brought in as UFA's.

Other than a stretch under Vinny, we have consistently brought in linemen. If you constantly bring in solid developmental guys, the odds are that you will get some good starters along the way [I]and[/I] continue to develop depth.

The plan is not inherently flawed. The execution has been.[/quote]

Foerster hasn't done a good job developing our young OL, we currently have 3 3rd rounders collecting dust. Lauvao, Chester and Compton need to be replaced. In addition to Haslett being replaced, so does Foerster.

Re: Bucs Postgame Thread
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1094423]As to Oline, sure, we have only a couple guys in the 1st or 2nd round, but we have drafted several in the 3rd and 4th and more in the 6th and 7th. If you look around the league, lots of good, solid lines have guys who were drafted in later rounds or were brought in as UFA's.

Other than a stretch under Vinny, we have consistently brought in linemen. If you constantly bring in solid developmental guys, the odds are that you will get some good starters along the way [I]and[/I] continue to develop depth.

The plan is not inherently flawed. The execution has been.[/quote]

1 of 2 things is happening in my opinion. 1) Our scouts/personnel guys are bringing home a bunch of spoiled food or 2) Our coaches don't know how to cook

Re: Bucs Postgame Thread
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1094407]Ignored how? You mean they're drafting the wrong linemen?[/quote]

I mean they're putting everything else first before solidifying the offensive line. In my opinion, the offensive line should be top priority. If it isn't top, first, priority, than anything you do to invest in those skilled positions will be wasted talent. We are seeing this right now. If that isn't true, then the Redskins should be putting up no less than 35 points a ball game with the talent they have at skilled positions on offense. But they're not consistently successful on offense because the protection is shotty.

So, yeah, I think they're drafting the wrong linemen - especially if those draftees can't get off the practice squad without some catastrophe that forces them into the lineup. Outside of Williams, none of those guys have proven to be solid in both run blocking AND pass protection. It's always either/or, or neither. Which means the offense will continue to struggle - which means the defense will have to play more short fields, which leads to more points allowed and fewer scored. That's a recipe for losing.

So yeah, 3 great offensive linemen in 15 years. I'd say the offensive line has most definitely been ignored.

Re: Bucs Postgame Thread
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;1094436]Foerster hasn't done a good job developing our young OL, we currently have 3 3rd rounders collecting dust. Lauvao, Chester and Compton need to be replaced. In addition to Haslett being replaced, so does Foerster.[/quote]

There is no fucking excuse in the world Chester was brought back, likewise with Bowen on the other side. These guys are clear waste of money and our cap space.

Re: Bucs Postgame Thread
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1094421]Not like we were stocking up on OL in the first two rounds before that though[/quote]

And I will say, the hogs were not a group of first round draft picks when bobby Beathard brought them to Washington. But, he was Bobby freakin' Beathard. The man was legend at finding those great late rounders and free agents. So I understand great offensive linemen aren't always in the first or even second rounds, but the 'skins talent evaluators have to be good enough to recognize where and when to find them. And they have not been successful at those mid to late rounders in terms of the offensive line.

It also has something to do with coaching as well. Some coaches can "coach 'em up" and turn an average linemen into a solid guy, but I haven't seen that so far in recent years. Buges - I thought he did OK with what he had here at last.

Re: Bucs Postgame Thread
 

[quote=skinsguy;1094446]And I will say, the hogs were not a group of first round draft picks when bobby Beathard brought them to Washington. But, he was Bobby freakin' Beathard. The man was legend at finding those great late rounders and free agents. So I understand great offensive linemen aren't always in the first or even second rounds, but the 'skins talent evaluators have to be good enough to recognize where and when to find them. And they have not been successful at those mid to late rounders in terms of the offensive line.

It also has something to do with coaching as well. Some coaches can "coach 'em up" and turn an average linemen into a solid guy, but I haven't seen that so far in recent years. Buges - I thought he did OK with what he had here at last.[/quote]

Beathard probably had as many garbage picks as gems. But he gave himself many opportunities to find those gems, which maybe is the key

Re: Bucs Postgame Thread
 

[quote=skinsguy;1094443]I mean they're putting everything else first before solidifying the offensive line. In my opinion, the offensive line should be top priority. If it isn't top, first, priority, than anything you do to invest in those skilled positions will be wasted talent. We are seeing this right now. If that isn't true, then the Redskins should be putting up no less than 35 points a ball game with the talent they have at skilled positions on offense. But they're not consistently successful on offense because the protection is shotty.

So, yeah, I think they're drafting the wrong linemen - especially if those draftees can't get off the practice squad without some catastrophe that forces them into the lineup. Outside of Williams, none of those guys have proven to be solid in both run blocking AND pass protection. It's always either/or, or neither. Which means the offense will continue to struggle - which means the defense will have to play more short fields, which leads to more points allowed and fewer scored. That's a recipe for losing.

So yeah, 3 great offensive linemen in 15 years. I'd say the offensive line has most definitely been ignored.[/quote]

Really good post. As much as I hate the Cowboys you have to give Jones and Co a lot of credit for building a badass oline the last few years, and it's working.

Re: Bucs Postgame Thread
 

Romo likes to hold onto the ball, but he is good at moving out of the pocket. The line really really sucks, but like Griff said its a team effort. Morgan Moses was maybe a good pick, but he needs alot of development, something we dont do well.

Re: Bucs Postgame Thread
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1094449]Beathard probably had as many garbage picks as gems. But he gave himself many opportunities to find those gems, which maybe is the key[/quote]

He sure did. Anyone remember Tory Nixon?

Re: Bucs Postgame Thread
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1094437]1 of 2 things is happening in my opinion. 1) Our scouts/personnel guys are bringing home a bunch of spoiled food or 2) Our coaches don't know how to cook[/quote]

I am going with a large dose of No.1 and a sprinkling of No.2. I blame scouting/personnel b/c I think the Forrester and Gruden are solid coaches. Are they stellar, Forrester, no. Gruden, it's year 1 but he has been very successful in all past stops.

I always thought scouting was a strength. Wasn't one of the knocks on Shanny - by Allen - that he overruled the scouts? Was it just a case of the blind leading the blind??

Re: Bucs Postgame Thread
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1094449]Beathard probably had as many garbage picks as gems. But he gave himself many opportunities to find those gems, which maybe is the key[/quote]

And maybe it could be, simply, that the front office just hasn't given themselves enough opportunity (because of cap space, cap penalties, lack of high round picks) to find those gems as well. I'd love to think it's simply a lack of opportunity - but I think it's more than just a lack of opportunity.

Re: Bucs Postgame Thread
 

[quote=skinsguy;1094443][B]I mean they're putting everything else first before solidifying the offensive line. In my opinion, the offensive line should be top priority.[/B] If it isn't top, first, priority, than anything you do to invest in those skilled positions will be wasted talent. We are seeing this right now. If that isn't true, then the Redskins should be putting up no less than 35 points a ball game with the talent they have at skilled positions on offense. But they're not consistently successful on offense because the protection is shotty.

So, yeah, I think they're drafting the wrong linemen - especially if those draftees can't get off the practice squad without some catastrophe that forces them into the lineup. Outside of Williams, none of those guys have proven to be solid in both run blocking AND pass protection. It's always either/or, or neither. Which means the offense will continue to struggle - which means the defense will have to play more short fields, which leads to more points allowed and fewer scored. That's a recipe for losing.

So yeah, 3 great offensive linemen in 15 years. I'd say the offensive line has most definitely been ignored.[/quote]

Well they brought in a new left guard, they drafted two guys, Chester is another FA, to me I think they're trying. It's just that the people they're bringing in aren't any good. Long doesn't even dress so that should tell you something right there.

Re: Bucs Postgame Thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1094445]There is no fucking excuse in the world Chester was brought back, likewise with Bowen on the other side. These guys are clear waste of money and our cap space.[/quote]

This. Allen's personnel moves have failed more often than not, all the way around.