Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[QUOTE=REDSKINS4ever;906859]Jabar Gaffney might not be a #1 receiver, but at times he played like it last year. The guy was money. I've always been a fan of Gaffney. Look for Gaffney to be open underneath all season long while Garcon and Moss go deep.[/QUOTE]



Gaffney also didn't have Fred Davis the last 4 games so who were we gonna throw to? He's been a Redskin for 1 season, has never had a 1,000 yard season, has been in the league since 2002, is 31 years old, and we have 4 WRs on the roster better than him. I'm including Hankerson before he got hurt was looking good and I see breakout year for him. Gaffney is just another guy. A dime a dozen kind of WR. Name another team Gaffney would start for. **Kat Williams voice: Don't worry I'll wait"**

Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

I think they'll probably keep 7 "wide recievers" with one being a return specialist, but I would expect Banks to get competition for his position. I just don't think that competition is on the roster right now, so I'm going to pretend like he's a roster lock.

'Y' receivers:
1. Fred Davis
2. Logan Paulsen

'H' Recievers
1. Chris Cooley
2. Darrel Young

'X' recievers:
1. Pierre Garcon (Santana Moss last year)
2. Santana Moss (Donte Stallworth last year)
3. Aldrick Robinson
4. Terrence Austin

Z receivers
1. Josh Morgan
2. Leonard Hankerson
3. Anthony Armstrong
4. Niles Paul (has played 'Y', 'F', and 'H')

F ("slot") recievers <Usally replaces the H in the offense (3 WR package)>
1. Santana Moss
2. Terrence Austin (also David Anderson last year)
3. Niles Paul

I studied Kyle's personnel groupings for a couple hours yesterday, and decided that there's a pretty good chance Moss makes the roster. I think he was toast if Eddie Royal had been signed, so obviously, he's hardly a lock to make a roster now, but he's pretty far ahead of Niles Paul, who would be forced into 3 WR duty with the roster as currently constructed.

The Redskins don't use a slot receiver in their offense. The position that plays the highest total number of snaps out of the slot is the 'Z', but the true slot receiver in the offense is Fred Davis. The Redskins don't use Fred Davis like a traditional tight end too often, at least my sense is that they don't overuse him.

They probably don't use Cooley enough, as when they try to get the H involved in the passing game in anything put the bootleg game, it's pretty forced.

If you believe reports, this Morgan vs. Hankerson thing as the critical Z receiver in our offense isn't going to be decided in camp. They'll split starts (not unlike Thomas and Kelly when they were here).

Hankerson, Garcon, and Morgan are locks. Then they need three reserves, and the one that's going to get the LEAST amount of playing time is the third Z. So that's either Niles Paul or Anthony Armstrong, they won't be drafting competition at this position. So the decision (Paul v Armstrong) likely comes down to special teams ability and Armstrong's straight line speed (making him a tough matchup in the passing game) against Paul's superior blocking (making him an impossible matchup in the rushing game).

Then the Redskins will need quality depth at the 'X' position. They can keep Moss, who adds the benefit of having experience at the F position. Or they can ask Gaffney to learn a new position/take on multiple new roles. Knowing the cap situation, it's far more likely that Moss is kept. Gaffney could be a draft-day trade to any team that loses out on the top draft WRs. Try to pick up a day 3 pick or something.

They could keep both Moss and Gaffney, but I don't understand why they would. Gaffney's role from last year has already been flat out replaced, and Moss has already been replaced in the starting lineup. There's still currently a spot for Moss in 3 WR sets and the added bonus to keeping Moss is that if Garcon ever misses time, they can just revert to the 2011 playbook. Gaffney's role has already been given away, so they have to decide between giving offseason reps to a veteran in the last year of his contract learning a new position, or getting rid of him.

Considering he figures to return something in a trade, I would predict he's gone before May 1. The Redskins will certainly trade Moss if they can get a pick for him, but his contract is going to be tough for anyone to take on, so he'll probably play out this season (unless replaced in the draft) and they we'll go from there.

Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

68 pages....some of you guys need to go outside and play.

Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;907115]68 pages....some of you guys need to go outside and play.[/quote]
now that was funny :lol:

Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;907106]Gaffney also didn't have Fred Davis the last 4 games so who were we gonna throw to? He's been a Redskin for 1 season, has never had a 1,000 yard season, has been in the league since 2002, is 31 years old, and we have 4 WRs on the roster better than him. I'm including Hankerson before he got hurt was looking good and I see breakout year for him. Gaffney is just another guy. A dime a dozen kind of WR. Name another team Gaffney would start for. **Kat Williams voice: Don't worry I'll wait"**[/quote]

You're right. Hankerson and Garcon are better than Gaffney. But the one thing Gaffney brings to the table is veteran experience. He might just be another receiver as you put it, but the guy has always been underrated. Jabar Gaffney isn't the best WR int he NFL by far, but when he's underestimated, he shows up to play.

Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=REDSKINS4ever;907118]You're right. Hankerson and Garcon are better than Gaffney. But the one thing Gaffney brings to the table is veteran experience. He might just be another receiver as you put it, but the guy has always been underrated. Jabar Gaffney isn't the best WR int he NFL by far, but when he's underestimated, he shows up to play.[/quote]

How is what you said any different than what Moss brings to the table?

Moss is smaller but faster, Gaffney is bigger but stronger. Moss has given us several 1000+ yard seasons. Gaffney's given us....... none.

That's about where the differences end. Gaffney is just as expendable as Moss (or more so).

Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;907106]Gaffney also didn't have Fred Davis the last 4 games so who were we gonna throw to? He's been a Redskin for 1 season, has never had a 1,000 yard season, has been in the league since 2002, is 31 years old, and we have 4 WRs on the roster better than him. I'm including Hankerson before he got hurt was looking good and I see breakout year for him. Gaffney is just another guy. A dime a dozen kind of WR. Name another team Gaffney would start for. [B]**Kat Williams voice: Don't worry I'll wait"**[/B][/quote]

You mean A Pimp Named Slickback?

Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;907124]You mean A Pimp Named Slickback?[/quote]

ahahahhaha

Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[QUOTE=REDSKINS4ever;907118]You're right. Hankerson and Garcon are better than Gaffney. But the one thing Gaffney brings to the table is veteran experience. He might just be another receiver as you put it, but the guy has always been underrated. Jabar Gaffney isn't the best WR int he NFL by far, but when he's underestimated, he shows up to play.[/QUOTE]



Garcon > Gaffney
Hankerson > Gaffney
Morgan > Gaffney
Moss > Gaffney

So I have 4 players of the same position and I'm supposed to keep you for veteran experience? Hell no. Moss brings that same veteran experience and is a better player. Sorry Gaffney you're the odd man out. Especially if we draft a WR.

Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;907123]How is what you said any different than what Moss brings to the table?

Moss is smaller but faster, Gaffney is bigger but stronger. Moss has given us several 1000+ yard seasons. Gaffney's given us....... none.

That's about where the differences end. Gaffney is just as expendable as Moss (or more so).[/quote]

I didn't mention Moss because we are so familiar with him and what he's done over the years. Gaffney just ended up being our most productive receiver last season. You have to give him credit for that.

Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

If Fred Davis doesn't get suspended he's easily the most productive pass catcher.

Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;907149
]Garcon > Gaffney
Hankerson > Gaffney
Morgan > Gaffney
Moss > Gaffney

So I have 4 players of the same position and I'm supposed to keep you for veteran experience? Hell no. Moss brings that same veteran experience and is a better player. Sorry Gaffney you're the odd man out. Especially if we draft a WR.[/quote]

Garcon and Gaffney had similar statistics by the end of last season. Both caught a lot of passes and both had just under 1,000 yards receiving. Hankerson has talent and has potential, but we're still basing him off of what he did in college. He's still unproven in the NFL. Morgan is a great fill in receiver and we are already familiar with Santana Moss. Gaffney won't be the odd man out when it comes to roster cuts. Anthony Armstrong will likely be released by preseason's end.

Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[QUOTE=REDSKINS4ever;907155]Garcon and Gaffney had similar statistics by the end of last season. Both caught a lot of passes and both had just under 1,000 yards receiving. Hankerson has talent and has potential, but we're still basing him off of what he did in college. He's still unproven in the NFL. Morgan is a great fill in receiver and we are already familiar with Santana Moss. Gaffney won't be the odd man out when it comes to roster cuts. Anthony Armstrong will likely be released by preseason's end.[/QUOTE]



Armstrong gone, Anderson gone, Banks gone, Austin gone, Gaffney gone,

Hankerson/Garcon/Morgan/Moss/Paul/Draft pick or Robinson

Gaffney played one year for us and had a career season. Congrats to him, if we didn't feel we needed an upgrade we wouldn't have gotten two and tried for a 3rd. Bye bye Gaffney. It's been real, it's been fun but it hasn't been real fun.

Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;907157]Armstrong gone, Anderson gone, Banks gone, Austin gone, Gaffney gone,

Hankerson/Garcon/Morgan/Moss/Paul/Draft pick or Robinson

Gaffney played one year for us and had a career season. Congrats to him, if we didn't feel we needed an upgrade we wouldn't have gotten two and tried for a 3rd. Bye bye Gaffney. It's been real, it's been fun but it hasn't been real fun.[/quote]

If Aldrick Robinson does attain a roster spot and Gaffney is released that will really surprise me. The most productive receiver from the previous season getting the ax and a practice squad player all last year surviving the final cut? Seems doubtful but we'll just have to wait and see, won't we?

Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;907149]Garcon > Gaffney
Hankerson > Gaffney
Morgan > Gaffney
Moss > Gaffney

So I have 4 players of the same position and I'm supposed to keep you for veteran experience? Hell no. Moss brings that same veteran experience and is a better player. Sorry Gaffney you're the odd man out. Especially if we draft a WR.[/quote]I'll say this: Kyle has a tendency to play his favored WR at the Z in base personnel, so that he's front side and able to run route combinations with the TE and off-set FB. Moss played the Z in base personnel in 2010, while Armstrong, Galloway, and Roydell Williams shared the X. Moss was targeted more than 140 times in 2010.

In 2011, Gaffney played the Z. That was right from the first game. There was no obvious reason to move Moss out of the role he played in 2010 unless they were trying to improve offensive efficiency. And if they were trying to improve offensive efficiency, then they obviously decided that the ball should go to Gaffney more in run-oriented downs than to Moss.

What we're effectively trying to replace here is the role that Donte Stallworth played last season. If the Redskins choose to cut Moss and switch Gaffney's position and make Gaffney the "slot" guy next year (despite no prior usage in that role in his career), there would be precedent for them doing that, having done the same thing with Moss a year ago. I think it's an easier move for Moss to simply sit more and play the role he did last year, when applicable.