re: Skins look to improve WR-Sign Roydell Williams (could add Hackett)
 

[quote=724Skinsfan;554871]C'mon Matty! That was sarcasm at it's finest.[/quote]

Hard to tell around here sometimes. Just look at the posts about giving up on Kelly already or cutting Randle El. :doh:

re: Skins look to improve WR-Sign Roydell Williams (could add Hackett)
 

[quote=Paintrain;554872]I really can't stress how baffling this mentality is to me. You don't give up on young players after one injury. He has done the things necessary (microfracture surgery) to correct it and now give the kid a chance to perform in camp before ending his tenure with the team.

Some of you guys whine like little b*tches about not building thru the draft and trading away draft picks and blah blah blah but are so quick to pull the trigger on one of those draft picks after one season and one partial offseason. Amazing.[/quote]

It's just retarded.

re: Skins look to improve WR-Sign Roydell Williams (could add Hackett)
 

Kelly on his knee from an interview with Redskins Blog last month:
[b]How's the knee doing?[/b]

Kelly: "It's doing good, man. Actually, right now, it's almost stronger than the other one. The quad muscle actually is bigger than the healthy leg, so I'm doing good."

[b]Are you on schedule, then?[/b]

Kelly: "I'm a little bit ahead, actually. Like I said, it's looking good, so I've just gotta make sure. Last year, I really didn't ... since I just had the problem, I really didn't keep a real maintenance program. This year, I'm gonna keep a maintenance program throughout the whole year, keep it nice and strong."

[b]And you're working with the training staff and everyone on that?[/b]

Kelly: "Yeah, Larry and Elliot, you know, all those guys. With them, and then [Head of Strength & Conditioning] John Hastings has me do certain stuff, stuff that strengthens it, stuff like that, so I'm on a roll right now."

[b]So do you expect to be ready to go at hundred percent by preseason?[/b]

Kelly: "Oh, yeah. Oh yeah. I'm gonna do the last OTA. During the time of the first OTAs I'll just be strengthening and running and stuff like that, but the last OTA I'll get in and hopefully do like I did last OTA and training camp and this time just keep it rolling, man, right into the season."

[b]From what you learned last training camp, is there something you would do differently this time through?[/b]

Kelly: "I think, knowing now that I'd messed up my knee before, I think -- like I said -- that I'd keep a maintenance program on it. Even when it's feeling good, even when it's not hurting, I'll always strengthen it all throughout the year, so it never gets to a weak point.

"Like I say, your body's your business now, so anything I can do to take care of my body, you know, I'm gonna do it. I'm actually changing my diet right now and all that kinda stuff, so...."

From an interview with Redskins.com in February:
In an effort to add more size to their wide receiver corps, the Redskins grabbed the 6-4, 219-pound Kelly in the middle of the second round of the draft.

His knee flared up early in training camp, keeping him on the sidelines most of his rookie campaign.

For the season, Kelly played in just five games and caught three passes for 18 yards.

[b]Kelly was asked if the knee injury was something that could hinder him his entire career.[/b]

“No, I don’t think so,” he said. “I [suffered] the injury in college, and after I rehabbed it, I never thought about it again. I never did anything to keep the muscles around my leg real strong.

“There are things I know now that I didn’t know then [about rehabbing the knee and keeping it strong]. There are a lot of things I can do to prevent it from re-occurring.

“It’s healing up, I just have to make sure I take better care of it.”

re: Skins look to improve WR-Sign Roydell Williams (could add Hackett)
 

[quote=Paintrain;554872]I really can't stress how baffling this mentality is to me. You don't give up on young players after one injury. He has done the things necessary (microfracture surgery) to correct it and now give the kid a chance to perform in camp before ending his tenure with the team.

Some of you guys whine like little b*tches about not building thru the draft and trading away draft picks and blah blah blah but are so quick to pull the trigger on one of those draft picks after one season and one partial offseason. Amazing.[/quote]

This isn't one injury. How many surgeries has he had on the same knee, is it two, three or more? (just with us, not counting college). It doesn't worry you that he has as many surgeries as catches? And I can see why you are baffled because you were unable to understand the point in the post even though you highlighted it. Let's try again, IF THIS LINGERS INTO AUGUST AND SEPTEMBER HOW LONG DOES HE DESERVE A ROSTER SPOT? That was the question.

Building through the draft is essential but picking guys who have major knee issues in college seems to be pretty stupid but we continue to do it. We did it with Rocky and he has proven that he can't play at his highest level for a whole season. Then we draft Kelly and all he has proven is that James Andrews will never get bored. I have not given up on Kelly but if he is a ghost in the pre-season again because of knee injuries, I say toss him or at least IR him (which was idiotic not to do last year).

re: Skins look to improve WR-Sign Roydell Williams (could add Hackett)
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;554880]This isn't one injury. How many surgeries has he had on the same knee, is it two, three or more? (just with us, not counting college). It doesn't worry you that he has as many surgeries as catches? And I can see why you are baffled because you were unable to understand the point in the post even though you highlighted it. Let's try again, IF THIS LINGERS INTO AUGUST AND SEPTEMBER HOW LONG DOES HE DESERVE A ROSTER SPOT? That was the question.

Building through the draft is essential but picking guys who have major knee issues in college seems to be pretty stupid but we continue to do it. We did it with Rocky and he has proven that he can't play at his highest level for a whole season. Then we draft Kelly and all he has proven is that James Andrews will never get bored. I have not given up on Kelly but if he is a ghost in the pre-season again because of knee injuries, I say toss him or at least IR him (which was idiotic not to do last year).[/quote]It's one injury. He hasn't injured the knee multiple times, it's been swelling and cartilage. He's had 2 surgeries on it (as a Redskin) and is recovering on schedule. If it lingers into August and September then depending on the projected recovery he deserves a roster spot until proven that he won't be able to contribute at any point during the season. Read the post immediately above your last one for his direct comments, not JLC speculation.

re: Skins look to improve WR-Sign Roydell Williams (could add Hackett)
 

Pardon the mistake fellas, I thought we had signed Hacket. I thought I read somewhere that Hacket was offered and signed but most likely it said he was offered and expected to sign. Washington was offered but was going to check out the Ravens camp this week or weekend then make a decision.

I can see Hacket making the team, perhaps even replacing Thrash in his roll, only cause he does the same job as Thrash at a younger age plus already has played in this type of offense for a few yrs with Zorn in Seattle. Not saying he's a Chad Johnson but simply knows the plays and does the same job as Thrash but younger.

Reading up on Washington does not excite me. drafted by the Bengals in the 3rd round in 2003. I understand they have talent or did at the time in Cinci so I imagine it was hard getting playing time. Then goes to the Patriots and catches like one catch for 3 yrds in his 2 seasons with them, he was mainly a special teamer.

re: Skins look to improve WR-Sign Roydell Williams (could add Hackett)
 

[quote=Paintrain;554883]It's one injury. He hasn't injured the knee multiple times, it's been swelling and cartilage. He's had 2 surgeries on it (as a Redskin) and is recovering on schedule. If it lingers into August and September then depending on the projected recovery he deserves a roster spot until proven that he won't be able to contribute at any point during the season. Read the post immediately above your last one for his direct comments, not JLC speculation.[/quote]

Well I apologize if I am a little skeptical towards a guy who came to camp hurt, stayed hurt througout OTAs and camp, was hurt in the pre-season, catches his first ball and gets hurt, has had multiple surgeries on a knee that he blew out in college and is coming of micro fracture surgery (which was the athletic kiss of death a few years ago) then tells me that everything is on schedule.

re: Skins look to improve WR-Sign Roydell Williams (could add Hackett)
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;554893]Well I apologize if I am a little skeptical towards a guy who came to camp hurt, stayed hurt througout OTAs and camp, was hurt in the pre-season, catches his first ball and gets hurt, has had multiple surgeries on a knee that he blew out in college and is coming of micro fracture surgery (which was the athletic kiss of death a few years ago) then tells me that everything is on schedule.[/quote]

To my recollection he wasn't hurt last year until the 2nd week of training camp. I don't remember him being hurt in any of the minicamps or OTAs. I know he was out of NFL shape and failed the training run, as did Thomas, but I don't recall any injury.

Regardless, I guess it's just a different way of looking at things. I'd rather give him the benefit of the doubt in May based on everything coming from the player, coaches and team rather than speculate negatively that he is going to remain injured despite the evidence to the contrary.

re: Skins look to improve WR-Sign Roydell Williams (could add Hackett)
 

[quote=Paintrain;554896]To my recollection he wasn't hurt last year until the 2nd week of training camp. I don't remember him being hurt in any of the minicamps or OTAs. I know he was out of NFL shape and failed the training run, as did Thomas, but I don't recall any injury.

Regardless, I guess it's just a different way of looking at things. I'd rather give him the benefit of the doubt in May based on everything coming from the player, coaches and team rather than speculate negatively that he is going to remain injured despite the evidence to the contrary.[/quote]

If you listened to the Coaches and player you would have thought that no surgery was necessary after a wasted season since that was what Zorn and Kelly said in December. Then it turns out that he needs major surgery in February (albeit, they said it wasn't as bad as they thought when they were in there). I am curious how you say there is no evidence to the contrary? I would argue there is no evidence that he can be counted on to contribute.

Don't get me wrong, I want to see this guy healthy and on the field. He was one of the most productive receivers in college football but at this point, I really have no expectations for him.

re: Skins look to improve WR-Sign Roydell Williams (could add Hackett)
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight]IF THIS LINGERS INTO AUGUST AND SEPTEMBER HOW LONG DOES HE DESERVE A ROSTER SPOT? That was the question.[/quote]

If this lingers into August and September, he won't take a roster spot - we will probably IR him. That way, we're not totally giving up on him, but we're not wasting a roster spot for him another year. The only receivers "garaunteed" roster spots right now are Thoms, ARE, and Moss. Thrash has several younger guys who are just as good on special teams with more upside at WR competing to replace him. If Kelly doesnt heal up, i fully expect him to be IRed and another of these camp guys will replace him for 2009. In 2010, AREs getting cut (the cap hit is only about 4M after the restructure he did this offseason), so if Kelly is IRed this year, he can take AREs spot next year without having to cut anyone we don't want to to make room.

I'm still hopeful Kellys knee will heal up, but my gut is telling me it won't. Many teams took Kelly off their boards completely last year because of his knee. The same knee has kept him from doing much of anything for over a year. So far, i've heard nothing to make me think this won't be an ongoing problem. Thank goodness we have Devin Thomas and Fred Davis. I think they both have breakout years and Thomas becomes our #1 WR in 2010.

re: Skins look to improve WR-Sign Roydell Williams (could add Hackett)
 

[quote=Paintrain;554896]To my recollection he wasn't hurt last year until the 2nd week of training camp. I don't remember him being hurt in any of the minicamps or OTAs. I know he was out of NFL shape and failed the training run, as did Thomas, but I don't recall any injury.

Regardless, I guess it's just a different way of looking at things. I'd rather give him the benefit of the doubt in May based on everything coming from the player, coaches and team rather than speculate negatively that he is going to remain injured despite the evidence to the contrary.[/quote]

If my recollection serves me well I thought Kelly was not in anyones top choice due to him having injured a knee or both. He came to Preseason hoping he would not need knee surgery and it was after the second preseason game that team officials suggested he have the surgery. I think he would have rather not done it. Then he came back in like week 9 and played after our break. Although he was not utilized much he was basically a drone on the field.

All was supposedly going fine until all of a sudden he decided to have another surgery in Feb. Perhaps team officials suggested it again or he thought he needed it, but I think it was a shock to the media and fans who thought he was healthy. Yes it was not a seriouse as mentioned and I hope he comes back with a passion and lights it up so we can squelch some of the drama and let some of this camp fodder go, but no one knows until he hits camp as to how his knees will hold up. So the team is taking out some insurance. Good.

I just hope the team puts the best on the field and does not let people go who would help the team simply to save face and force Kelly to step up when he can't. I now every year we say this is the SB yr and some of us are delerious, but honestly I could see us going somewhere this yr. Our defensive line is 10 times better or should be, hopefully we have cohesiveness. Our secondary is a lot better with out Springs taking a roster spot and money to sit on the bench. We should have a much better pass rush. JC will have better knowledge of the offense and hopefully Zorn plays to JC's strengths. We have a second TE with a lot of talent who hopefully will step up and be part of our 2 TE sets. A better O-line, and a bigger one again hopefully if all works out well. A better back field and a ton of talent at WR. ;)

re: Skins look to improve WR-Sign Roydell Williams (could add Hackett)
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;554904]If you listened to the Coaches and player you would have thought that no surgery was necessary after a wasted season since that was what Zorn and Kelly said in December. Then it turns out that he needs major surgery in February (albeit, they said it wasn't as bad as they thought when they were in there). I am curious how you say there is no evidence to the contrary? I would argue there is no evidence that he can be counted on to contribute.

Don't get me wrong, I want to see this guy healthy and on the field. He was one of the most productive receivers in college football but at this point, I really have no expectations for him.[/quote]

Microfracture is not considered major surgery. It's done on an out-patient basis and takes as little as 30 minutes to do.

I think people are making a much bigger deal about this surgery than it really is.

re: Skins look to improve WR-Sign Roydell Williams (could add Hackett)
 

[quote=Mattyk72;554910]Microfracture is not considered major surgery. It's done on an out-patient basis and takes as little as 30 minutes to do.

I think people are making a much bigger deal about this surgery than it really is.[/quote]

Matt, I would agree if this was an isolated incident but I have to consider this guy's injury body of work.

Anyway, I have moved on from Kelly. I want to know how the coaches are going to use Thomas and Fred Davis and the guys brought in who will actually be on the field for us.

re: Skins look to improve WR-Sign Roydell Williams (could add Hackett)
 

[quote=Mattyk72;554910]Microfracture is not considered major surgery. It's done on an out-patient basis and takes as little as 30 minutes to do.

I think people are making a much bigger deal about this surgery than it really is.[/quote]

It's not "major" in that it requires hospital stay but it can be a real challenge to recover from. Slow going usually. Just a few years ago it was the last stop option before retirement because it was such a major thing to recover from. It sounds like they've rounded it out but let's not kid ourselves. Microfracture surgery is a big deal. In May? Not as much certainly though.

re: Skins look to improve WR-Sign Roydell Williams (could add Hackett)
 

This is cool. I have Roydell Williams as the team's #3 WR on my Madden fantasy franchise league, with JC throwing to him. (Boldin is the #1 and Malcolm Kelly is a beast at #2, of course Portis and Cooley are on the team too) :D


No seriously, Roydell Williams could be a very good pickup for depth if he can stay healthy and focused. His numbers were a bit deflated because he had Vince Young as his QB last time he played. He did have 719 yards on a team with almost no passing game.

I just hope we do not sign so many productive WRs that it stunts Kelly and Thomas' development and keeps them off the field more than they should be.

Maybe we're planning on moving Randel El? We've found a replacement punt returner. I'd hate to see him go, he's actually a very good WR for us in clutch situations and 3rd down and adds a passing WR to our arsenal.