Re: As Is 2 Round Dream Draft
 

[QUOTE=Dirtbag359;779686]I'm feeling conservative today so here's my draft

1st Round - Von Miller - LB - Texas A&M - Guy can do everything. Rush the passer, cover, and stop the run. He's a perfect fit for our defense. Ironically his coverage skills are his main selling point for me.

2nd Round - Rodney Hudson - C - Florida State - This guy is not only a perfect fit for our zone scheme but he also has the potential to easily be a top 5 center in two or three years along with Mangold, Kalil, Mack, and Brown.

3rd Round - Christian Ponder - QB - Florida State - This pick would be acquired through some combination of trading our 5th round picks, Haynesworth and/or McNabb. However I firmly believe that Ponder will last till late in the third round, especially if Dalton established himself at the top of the third tier. Anyway Ponder is mobile, accurate when healthy, and is a great leader. I think I remember hearing somewhere that he graduated from college in 2.5 years. He also has experience in a pro style system. I must admit I don't have a ton of faith in a third round QB but Ponder does seem like a decent risk. Plus for whatever reason the ACC does a good job producing QB's (Schuab, Vick, Rivers, Ryan)[/QUOTE]

I like that scenario a lot. I've been high on Von Miller for awhile. I think it would be a tremendous pressure off of Orakpo, not allowing offenses to cheat help to his side all the time because he is the only stud up front.

Re: As Is 2 Round Dream Draft
 

U guys must have seen ponder in a different light than I have. He's a decent player but I Just don't see him as a starter in the NFL..

Re: As Is 2 Round Dream Draft
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;779686]I'm feeling conservative today so here's my draft

1st Round - Von Miller - LB - Texas A&M - Guy can do everything. Rush the passer, cover, and stop the run. He's a perfect fit for our defense. Ironically his coverage skills are his main selling point for me.

2nd Round - Rodney Hudson - C - Florida State - This guy is not only a perfect fit for our zone scheme but he also has the potential to easily be a top 5 center in two or three years along with Mangold, Kalil, Mack, and Brown.

3rd Round - Christian Ponder - QB - Florida State - This pick would be acquired through some combination of trading our 5th round picks, Haynesworth and/or McNabb. However I firmly believe that Ponder will last till late in the third round, especially if Dalton established himself at the top of the third tier. Anyway Ponder is mobile, accurate when healthy, and is a great leader. I think I remember hearing somewhere that he graduated from college in 2.5 years. He also has experience in a pro style system. I must admit I don't have a ton of faith in a third round QB but Ponder does seem like a decent risk. Plus for whatever reason the ACC does a good job producing QB's (Schuab, Vick, Rivers, Ryan)[/quote]

Maybe in the 4th round you can draft an English teacher who can show you how to read thread titles and original posts...yeah, I went there :)

Lot of people talking Miller and Ponder since I first brought them up it seems. I'd be quite happy with the two of them here.

Re: As Is 2 Round Dream Draft
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;779691]U guys must have seen ponder in a different light than I have. He's a decent player but I Just don't see him as a starter in the NFL..[/quote]

Well the way I feel about it is there is no super star, sure to be a top NFL QB in this year's draft since Luck stayed at Stanford. Therefore, I think we need to get a player that can be an elite talent at one of our other major areas of need, not a QB that people are iffy about in the 1st or 2nd round just because we need a QB.

Rex can be a stop gap. If we get a QB with some possible upside in the 3rd or 4th round, maybe they can be a solid starter. If not, we will still have gotten some starting quality talent to build our team and lets face it, we will probably not be a playoff team next year unless everything goes right for us.

I'm just more of the opinion that we take a huge risk taking a QB in the 1st or 2nd with this draft class. I would rather get a guy in the 1st or 2nd we are more sure will be a long term starter and star for the team and get a QB next year if one we draft this year doesn't work out. In the second round we could get a good center like Wisniewski, Hudson, or Pouncey. I would rather have a mid round pick on a QB not pan out than a 1st or 2nd round pick on a QB. This draft class could be a bunch of Clausens and that scares me.

Edit: Just pretend I am only talking about a 2nd round draft pick scenario. :)

Re: As Is 2 Round Dream Draft
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;779691]U guys must have seen ponder in a different light than I have. He's a decent player but I Just don't see him as a starter in the NFL..[/quote]

I see Ponder as an accurate, extremely intelligent, mobile, and creative QB. Others have stronger arms but his is strong enough. He also is tough and a good leader. The knocks against him seem to be arm strength (which can be developed somewhat) and sometimes poor decisions (which can be rectified by film study and his own native intelligence).

Ponder is so intelligent that he can be one of those QB's who is successful by outsmarting the defense.

I'm not saying that Ponder is great. But in a weak QB class, I see him as the most likely to be successful, at least in a Shanny offense.

So, why do you not see him as a starter?

Re: As Is 2 Round Dream Draft
 

[quote=Lotus;779704]I see Ponder as an accurate, extremely intelligent, mobile, and creative QB. Others have stronger arms but his is strong enough. He also is tough and a good leader. The knocks against him seem to be arm strength (which can be developed somewhat) and sometimes poor decisions (which can be rectified by film study and his own native intelligence).

Ponder is so intelligent that he can be one of those QB's who is successful by outsmarting the defense.

I'm not saying that Ponder is great. But in a weak QB class, I see him as the most likely to be successful, at least in a Shanny offense.

So, why do you not see him as a starter?[/quote]


From what I've seen in person and TV the guy has some talent dont get me wrong but kid caves under pressure and has a very average arm IMO.. Arm strength isn't eveything I understand that But you nEed to be able to get the ball down field in the NFL. When he played against OU which I realize is only 1 game, he didn't read any blitzes well at all and made horrific decisions under pressure.. Maybe the guy turns out to be a star who knows, I just don't see what is so special to take him in the high 2nd round.

Re: As Is 2 Round Dream Draft
 

I like Ponder a lot, but I wouldn't take him in the high 2nd either. Late 2nd/3rd is where I'd probably look to take him. If he can't show that his elbow is healed then I think right now he may be a 3rd/4th round pick (two rounds in which we currently have no picks). My knock on Ponder, and it's not really a knock per se, is that I'm sure he'll be much better than he currently is. Currently, he looks like someone who can be a solid QB for many many years. He's not merely a game manager, but I don't know that he's a game breaker either

Re: As Is 2 Round Dream Draft
 

There have been many passionate posts here for one QB or another, some quoting experts and draft gurus. If there is one thing that the McNabb experiment proved to me is we need to build this team from the ground up, from the inside out first. Smoot mentioned that Ponder could some day be a game manager. I thought to myself that there's no way we need a manager, let's get a guy who can drive 90 yards down the field in 2 minutes. Then I realized we did have that guy last year and he couldn't get it done either. Pass rushing end in the 1st and center in the second.

Re: As Is 2 Round Dream Draft
 

[quote=SmootSmack;779693]Maybe in the 4th round you can draft an English teacher who can show you how to read thread titles and original posts...yeah, I went there :)

Lot of people talking Miller and Ponder since I first brought them up it seems. I'd be quite happy with the two of them here.[/quote]

Hey I gave you your two rounds. If anything I should get extra credit for including a third pick. And my holds on the english lagnage is fined muchos gracias.

Still I know you've been dropping hints about Ponder but I also thought you were more of a Quinn guy rather then a Von Miller supporter. If you ask me Quinn vs Von Miller seems like Trent vs Okung all over again, except this time at OLB.


[quote=BuckSkin;779720]There have been many passionate posts here for one QB or another, some quoting experts and draft gurus. If there is one thing that the McNabb experiment proved to me is we need to build this team from the ground up, from the inside out first. Smoot mentioned that Ponder could some day be a game manager. I thought to myself that there's no way we need a manager, let's get a guy who can drive 90 yards down the field in 2 minutes. Then I realized we did have that guy last year and he couldn't get it done either. Pass rushing end in the 1st and center in the second.[/quote]

I see what you're saying and if that franchise QB isn't there at 10 then I'll be all for getting that compliment to Orakpo.

However as the argument goes, if you're ever in position to draft a franchise QB you have to take him. Tons of examples but for now the Vikings will do. I mean look at them, they had everything. Great O-Line, receivers, dominant defense, the leagues best all around running back however the fact that they were stuck with a developmental guy at QB made them a fringe 1 and out playoff team. It wasn't until Favre came along that the Vikigns were able to put all those great supporting pieces to work. The only problem was the age gave the Vikings a one year window.

Re: As Is 2 Round Dream Draft
 

You make a compelling argument Dirt, one I honestly hadn't considered, and now it looks like Minnesota's window is beginning to close. Looks like the Williams DT tandem are a thing of the past.

Re: As Is 2 Round Dream Draft
 

[quote=BuckSkin;779720]There have been many passionate posts here for one QB or another, some quoting experts and draft gurus. If there is one thing that the McNabb experiment proved to me is we need to build this team from the ground up, from the inside out first. Smoot mentioned that Ponder could some day be a game manager. I thought to myself that there's no way we need a manager, let's get a guy who can drive 90 yards down the field in 2 minutes. Then I realized we did have that guy last year and he couldn't get it done either. Pass rushing end in the 1st and center in the second.[/quote]

When did I say he could some day be a game manager?

Dirtbag-What I had said was there's buzz about the Skins taking Quinn, but my gut says Von Miller

Re: As Is 2 Round Dream Draft
 

After re-reading your post Smoot, I misinterpreted what you were saying. You did say that he was "not" merely a game manager...... My bad.

Re: As Is 2 Round Dream Draft
 

[quote=Lotus;779704]I see Ponder as an accurate, extremely intelligent, mobile, and creative QB. Others have stronger arms but his is strong enough. He also is tough and a good leader. The knocks against him seem to be arm strength (which can be developed somewhat) and sometimes poor decisions (which can be rectified by film study and his own native intelligence).

Ponder is so intelligent that he can be one of those QB's who is successful by outsmarting the defense.

I'm not saying that Ponder is great. But in a weak QB class, I see him as the most likely to be successful, at least in a Shanny offense.

So, why do you not see him as a starter?[/quote]



Your analyze of him is inflated with hopes and wishful thinking on your part. QBs from Florida universities frighten me.

In fact, this is what CBS Sports says of Ponder: "The biggest concern at this point might be his struggles remaining on the field. While Ponder has been impressive when healthy, he was unable to finish either of the past two seasons due to multiple injuries to his throwing arm."

The CBS Sports critique also agreed with you about his intelligence, but the fact that his arm strength is suspect to make all the NFL throws could be a negative and earn him a selection in the middle rounds of the draft.

If he indeed has had several injuries to his throwing arm, that in itself, makes me leary. Honestly, what about you?

Re: As Is 2 Round Dream Draft
 

[quote=juskins;780142]Your analyze of him is inflated with hopes and wishful thinking on your part. QBs from Florida universities frighten me.

In fact, this is what CBS Sports says of Ponder: "The biggest concern at this point might be his struggles remaining on the field. While Ponder has been impressive when healthy, he was unable to finish either of the past two seasons due to multiple injuries to his throwing arm."

The CBS Sports critique also agreed with you about his intelligence, but the fact that his arm strength is suspect to make all the NFL throws could be a negative and earn him a selection in the middle rounds of the draft.

If he indeed has had several injuries to his throwing arm, that in itself, makes me leary. Honestly, what about you?[/quote]

His injuries are a concern that I should have mentioned. Every QB this year, though, seems to have some major concern. I didn't say that Ponder is unblemished.

Injuries are a concern but it all depends on how he recovers. Sam Bradford injured his shoulder his last year in college but cam back just fine. Alternatively, Matt Stafford was pretty much injury-free in college but has been sidelined a lot so far in the NFL. Being injured, or being injury-free, may or may not project to the NFL.

A positive which I failed to mention is that Ponder has considerable experience working under center, unlike some other candidates.

Re: As Is 2 Round Dream Draft
 

The more research I do, the more I'm warming to the idea of taking Cam Newton. This guy has Randall Cunningham potential (Eagles Randall & Vikings Randall, but simultaneously). He's film is awesome and his interviews are smooth. I know there is a bust risk, but the BOOM factor may be worth it.

That being said, I have reserved a one-way ticket for a seat on the Jake Locker bandwagon.