Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=saden1;923210][quote=12thMan;923206]

You should be confidant if everything stays as is. It will be close but so are all elections these days.

[URL="http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/"]Election Forecasts - FiveThirtyEight Blog - NYTimes.com[/URL][/quote]I've been following this one:
[url=http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/2012_elections_electoral_college_map.html]RealClearPolitics - 2012 Election Maps - Electoral Map[/url]

but as you said, this will be close.

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=NC_Skins;923227]..but not showing how much costs are being cut from Medicare?




[URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/fact-checking-the-gop-debate-500-billion-in-cuts-to-medicare/2011/06/14/AGsnGAVH_blog.html"]Fact Checking the GOP debate: $500 billion in cuts to Medicare? - The Washington Post[/URL][/quote]numbers take into account Medicare cuts.

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=12thMan;923218]Given all the benefits in the healthcare law, If you don't see this as victory for the American people, maybe you should revisit some of the provisions. I won't bother to list any.

FYI, the level of federal spending under Obama has risen at the slowest pace since Ike. That's nearly a generation. He's hardly running up the tab on the American people. Nice try though.[/quote]I don't think anything you said above is true. For example:

[IMG]http://www.fiscalaccountability.org/userfiles/federal%20spending%20as%20percentage%20of%20gdp.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/usgs_line.php?title=Total%20Spending&units=b&size=m&year=1950_2017&sname=US&bar=0&stack=1&col=c&legend=&source=a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_b_b_b_b_b_b&spending0=44.80_48.94_71.57_79.99_77.69_73.44_75.99_81.78_86.05_93.53_97.28_104.86_106.82_111.32_118.53_118.23_134.53_157.46_178.13_183.64_195.65_210.17_230.68_245.71_269.36_332.33_371.79_409.22_458.75_504.03_590.94_678.24_745.74_808.36_851.81_946.34_990.38_1004.02_1064.42_1143.74_1252.99_1324.23_1381.53_1409.39_1461.75_1515.74_1560.48_1601.12_1652.46_1701.84_1788.95_1862.85_2010.89_2159.90_2292.84_2471.96_2655.05_2728.69_2982.54_3517.68_3456.21_3603.06_3795.55_3803.36_3883.10_4059.87_4328.84_4531.72[/IMG]

I know I come off as abrasive sometimes, call me on it when I do please. I want to stay civil. Could we lay off the "nice try" sarcasm?

If health care insurance is fundamentally reformed now, why is everybody with a solid paper trail being forced to buy into it?

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;923225][quote=12thMan;923218]"Benefits" of Obamacare
[/quote]Another one:
- an even more powerful and intrusive IRS...yaaaayy
[url=http://www.foxbusiness.com/government/2012/06/29/scotus-ruling-means-bigger-more-intrusive-irs/]SCOTUS Ruling Means Bigger, More Intrusive IRS | Fox Business[/url]

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=HailGreen28;923231]Could we lay off the "nice try" sarcasm?[/quote]


Well, if you not once, but twice try to make a false insinuation about the health care program, what do you expect?

It was said twice that Massachusetts had the highest premiums in the nation and it was implied heavily that it was all due to Romneycare (aka..obamacare). Now this person doesn't do any research into the state. Didn't find out they also have one of the highest costs of living AND also have one of the highest averages of income in then the nation as well. In the end, we find out that the people of Mass. are paying LESS of a % of their income towards health care premiums than say the people in the southern states.

It's slanted and false misinformation that's going to land you a "nice try" from people like myself. It's the least that should be afforded to me since I have to research and debunk the misleading info. :)

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;923232][quote=Slingin Sammy 33;923225]Another one:
- an even more powerful and intrusive IRS...yaaaayy
[url=http://www.foxbusiness.com/government/2012/06/29/scotus-ruling-means-bigger-more-intrusive-irs/]SCOTUS Ruling Means Bigger, More Intrusive IRS | Fox Business[/url][/quote]


Can you use any non-biased sources please? First Romney's main web page, now Fox business news? See the Presidential thread to see my breakdown on the "independent of each other" agencies of Fox.


[url]http://www.thewarpath.net/debating-with-the-enemy/47853-2012-presidential-election-free-all-edition-8.html#post923029[/url]

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=NC_Skins;923233]It's slanted and false misinformation that's going to land you a "nice try" from people like myself. It's the least that should be afforded to me [B]since I have to research and debunk the misleading info[/B]. :)[/quote]Did you give 12th a "nice try" for his earlier post that HG28 commented on?

12th, you can't quote the spokeskid without fact-checking him, c'mon man!

[url=http://cnsnews.com/blog/terence-p-jeffrey/omb-4-yrs-spending-24-gdp-wh-demonstrated-significant-fiscal-restraint]OMB: 4 Yrs of Spending 24%+ of GDP; WH: “Demonstrated Significant Fiscal Restraint’ | CNSNews.com[/url]

HG28, nice find on the charts BTW....and you're definitely not abrasive in my book.

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;923236]Did you give 12th a "nice try" for his earlier post that HG28 commented on?

12th, you can't quote the spokeskid without fact-checking him, c'mon man!

[url=http://cnsnews.com/blog/terence-p-jeffrey/omb-4-yrs-spending-24-gdp-wh-demonstrated-significant-fiscal-restraint]OMB: 4 Yrs of Spending 24%+ of GDP; WH: “Demonstrated Significant Fiscal Restraint’ | CNSNews.com[/url]

HG28, nice find on the charts BTW....and you're definitely not abrasive in my book.[/quote]

I haven't been keeping up with the side arguments. It's tough enough following my own. :cheeky-sm


I also did it to FD because he seemed to keep hammering that point down that Mass had the highest insurance premiums, and that he implied it was due to Romneycare.

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=NC_Skins;923234][quote=Slingin Sammy 33;923232]


Can you use any non-biased sources please? First Romney's main web page, now Fox business news? See the Presidential thread to see my breakdown on the "independent of each other" agencies of Fox.


[URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/debating-with-the-enemy/47853-2012-presidential-election-free-all-edition-8.html#post923029"]http://www.thewarpath.net/debating-with-the-enemy/47853-2012-presidential-election-free-all-edition-8.html#post923029 [/URL][/quote]
You can't discredit the source without reading the info, if the facts are correct, they're correct. I'd try to find sources in the lamestream media, but they bury anything that might hurt the "chosen one" and doctor video/voice tapes to advance their political agendas.

But to appease you, directly from the House Ways & Means Committee....oops they're biased too because the House is in GOP hands...
[URL]http://republicans.waysandmeans.house.gov/UploadedFiles/IRS_Power_Report.pdf[/URL]

Many of the numbers come from GAO btw.

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=12thMan;923218]FYI, the level of federal spending under Obama has risen at the slowest pace since Ike. That's nearly a generation. He's hardly running up the tab on the American people. Nice try though.[/quote]


[quote=HailGreen28;923231]I don't think anything you said above is true. For example:[/quote]

You sure about that? He may be right.


[url=http://www.marketwatch.com/story/obama-spending-binge-never-happened-2012-05-22?pagenumber=1]Obama spending binge never happened - Rex Nutting - MarketWatch[/url]

[quote]Even hapless Herbert Hoover managed to increase spending more than Obama has.

Here are the facts, according to the official government statistics:

• In the 2009 fiscal year — the last of George W. Bush’s presidency — federal spending rose by 17.9% from $2.98 trillion to $3.52 trillion. Check the official numbers at the Office of Management and Budget.

• In fiscal 2010 — the first budget under Obama — spending fell 1.8% to $3.46 trillion.

• In fiscal 2011, spending rose 4.3% to $3.60 trillion.

• In fiscal 2012, spending is set to rise 0.7% to $3.63 trillion, according to the Congressional Budget Office’s estimate of the budget that was agreed to last August.

• Finally in fiscal 2013 — the final budget of Obama’s term — spending is scheduled to fall 1.3% to $3.58 trillion. Read the CBO’s latest budget outlook.

Over Obama’s four budget years, federal spending is on track to rise from $3.52 trillion to $3.58 trillion, an annualized increase of just 0.4%.[/quote]


[quote]Reagan, 1982-85: Annual increase of 8.7 percent
Reagan, 1986-89: Annual increase of 4.9 percent
Bush I, 1990-93: Annual increase of 5.4 percent
Clinton, 1994-1997: Annual increase of 3.2 percent
Clinton, 1998-2001: Annual increase of 3.9 percent
Bush II, 2002-2005: Annual increase of 7.3 percent
Bush II, 2006-2009: Annual increase of 8.1 percent
Obama, 2010-2013: Annual increase of 1.4 percent [/quote]


[IMG]http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/250x250/22325682.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

NC_Skins, you have the correct source.

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=NC_Skins;923233]Well, if you not once, but twice try to make a false insinuation about the health care program, what do you expect?

It was said twice that Massachusetts had the highest premiums in the nation and it was implied heavily that it was all due to Romneycare (aka..obamacare). Now this person doesn't do any research into the state. Didn't find out they also have one of the highest costs of living AND also have one of the highest averages of income in then the nation as well. In the end, we find out that the people of Mass. are paying LESS of a % of their income towards health care premiums than say the people in the southern states.

It's slanted and false misinformation that's going to land you a "nice try" from people like myself. It's the least that should be afforded to me since I have to research and debunk the misleading info. :)[/quote]What did I falsely insinuate about the new health care bill?

Do you think costs to people are going down as a result of this bill? I've seen the opposite.

[IMG]http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Third_Party_Graphic/2011/06/26/cost__1309074859_7193.gif[/IMG]

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=HailGreen28;923242]What did I falsely insinuate about the new health care bill?
[/quote]


Sorry. I was referencing "firstdown" when I said that. I was using the hypothetical that if you DID falsely insinuate stuff multiple times, expect a "nice try".

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=12thMan;923241]NC_Skins, you have the correct source.[/quote]A more accurate picture is spending as % of GDP, as is mentioned in my link:

from the link:
Yes, it is true that in fiscal year 2012, under Obama, the anticipated federal spending of 24.3 percent of GDP is 3.6 percent [I]less [/I]than the 25.2 percent the federal government spent in fiscal 2009, when Obama voted for President Bush’s $700 billion TARP and signed his own $831 billion stimulus.
But it is also true that the 24.3 percent of GDP that Obama’s OMB says the federal government will spend this year is 16.8 percent higher than the 20.8 percent it stood at in fiscal 2008--and a full three times as great as what federal spending was when Herbert Hoover left office.

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=NC_Skins;923240][IMG]http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/250x250/22325682.jpg[/IMG][/quote]

[IMG]http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/0908/have-at-thee-my-reputation-grows-with-every-failure-demotivational-poster-1250609151.jpg[/IMG]

:food-smil

[IMG]http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/usgs_line.php?title=Total%20Spending&units=b&size=m&year=1950_2012&sname=US&bar=0&stack=1&col=c&legend=&source=a_i_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_i_a_i_a_a_a_a_a_a_e_g_g&spending0=70.33_75.94_99.90_110.05_111.33_110.72_115.80_125.46_134.73_145.75_151.29_164.83_169.50_177.35_189.11_193.89_216.22_248.07_277.19_296.09_321.84_354.79_388.25_411.64_453.23_550.53_620.29_668.15_734.47_809.24_940.24_1051.82_1179.43_1283.58_1353.81_1496.30_1592.72_1662.02_1771.33_1915.12_2088.85_2230.30_2349.28_2420.82_2506.90_2634.73_2719.30_2813.40_2923.17_3053.31_3239.91_3428.54_3697.49_3934.54_4131.75_4397.10_4697.84_4923.25_5336.65_5942.71_5920.00_6050.51_6282.00[/IMG]

[IMG]http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/usgs_line.php?title=Total%20Spending&units=b&size=m&year=2005_2012&sname=US&bar=1&stack=1&col=c&legend=&source=a_a_a_a_a_e_g_g&spending0=4397.10_4697.84_4923.25_5336.65_5942.71_5920.00_6050.51_6282.00[/IMG]

Obama's not the biggest spender ever, but he's still increasing government spending overall. With a new massive increase to individual and federal spending that some are applauding now.