re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;511983]But he hasn't failed in bringing along Jason Campbell. Most of the reason his schemes have been ineffective, is that Devin Thomas has seen 30+ targets, and he generally doesn't know what to do. That's hurt the passing game.

Zorn's schemes with last years' offensive personnel would actually have been likely more effective than Saunders' schemes. Not a whole lot more, generally scheme isn't worth that much. This team badly needs a Keenan McCardell.

But Campbell is better than last year, which is what really, really needed to get out of this year. Those saying he's regressed probably should go look at a stat sheet or something.[/quote]

I think people critical of Campbell are looking at the stats a bit more than you think. Their point is valid. Consider:

Over the first 8 games when we went 6-2, Campbell's stats were impressive. 219 yards per game, 66% completion, 7.6 yards per attempt, and most impressively 8 TDs and 0 INTs. His QB rating hovered around 100.

Over the last 5 games (not including today's Bengals game in which he was mediocre), he has dropped to 205 yards per game, 59.4% completion, 5.5 yards per attempt, 3 TDs and 6 INTs.

Those numbers look familiar. Campbell in 2007:

207 yards per game, 60% completion, 6.5 yards per attempt, 12 TDs and 11 INTs.

He has indeed faced extremely tough defenses during this time. Today's Bengals performance was better, so I can't say he's regressed. But he's certainly not making "the leap" either. I haven't seen him make any game-changing plays for us in a while now.

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

[quote=djnemo65;511968]How does this make any sense? Unless the argument is that Zorn's responsibilities as head coach prevent him from effectively running the offense, isn't it safe to assume that our offense would be kind of similar with Williams as coach and Zorn as OC? I can't imagine that Williams would have been that involved with the offensive side of the ball. I kind of think it's more likely that, should the Skins have followed your advice last year, we'd be debating who the next OC should be right now.[/quote]


Hindsight is 20/20. Lets look at what Zorn has done well, he helped Campbell get better (at first), he went 6-2. Zorn right now in my opinion is wearing too many hats as Headcoach. He is a [B]First Time[/B] headcoach, and a first time playcaller. Maybe it would have been better to have Blanche as Headcoach and Zorn as O-coordinator and QB Coach. Or maybe Zorn should let Sherman Smith do his job and call the plays. My problem with Zorn is that he seems to lack leadership, he calls out players and blames others for his mistakes.

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;511983]But he hasn't failed in bringing along Jason Campbell. Most of the reason his schemes have been ineffective, is that Devin Thomas has seen 30+ targets, and he generally doesn't know what to do. That's hurt the passing game.

Zorn's schemes with last years' offensive personnel would actually have been likely more effective than Saunders' schemes. Not a whole lot more, generally scheme isn't worth that much. This team badly needs a Keenan McCardell.

[B]But Campbell is better than last year, which is what really, really needed to get out of this year. Those saying he's regressed probably should go look at a stat sheet or something.[/quote][/B]

[B]I'm not so sure he's a whole lot better. His has a a higher completion % cause all he does is throw passes 10 yards and under. I think he'd be just as good if not better if he stayed in Al's offense. I've yet to see Zorn let JC do something he was real good at under Al. Run the no huddle. Poor coaching. [/B]

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

[quote=skinsfan69;511993]The team has not quit!!! We have too many high character guys on this team to say stupid crap like that.[/quote]

So we have lots of "high character guys" who just plain suck?

They mailed it in today. I don't see why people find that statement so appalling.

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

[quote=skinsnut;511989]Tripp,
You make some good point about Campbell being better, but the problem is the rest of the team is worse...in almost every category.
Special teams, defense, particularly schemes the last 2 games early on.
D line, O line, penalties....yes Portis has done well, but that has more to do with his offseason program and individual achievement.. what I mean is his runs are not due to gaping holes or anything. Last years holes were far better.

So...if Zorn has made moderate progress with a QB...isn't he really a QB coach with a Head Coach clipboard?

What he needs to be is a HEAD COACH, with QB coaching skills on the side, not vice versa.[/quote]I think Zorn has done a poor job of delegating his responsibilities, but this is an easy adjustment made in the offseason.

I think, first and foremost, that we are ignoring obvious good things about the offense when we point out that it isn't scoring points. We were on the freaking one inch line with downs to go and couldn't get it in, which can't be put on the coaching. Our kicker is really struggling, which can't be put on the coaching, or the offense at all.

And then I think that the offensive personnel is not nearly as good as it was last year. Well, it's close, but all the changes were downgrades.

That, and we were missing two offensive lineman this game.

None of that can be put on Zorn. His adjustments haven't helped us score points, but he is doing a much better job than Blache is, with less to work with. For all the crap we give Cerrato for his DL acquisitions, his inability to add anything of consequence to the offense has put Zorn in a position where, for the year, his unit has greatly overachieved.

And while the holes were there last year, they're nothing like the holes we've opened for him this year. Portis' success is a lot individual, but a lot due to the scheme change upfront, which improved the blocking at 4/5 positions, while making them easier to read for Portis because it's very close to what he had in Denver. We're a top five line blocking for the run, or at least we were with Samuels.

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

[quote=Beemnseven;512016]So we have lots of "high character guys" who just plain suck?

They mailed it in today. I don't see why people find that statement so appalling.[/quote]Because it's false.

Outside of that, you might be onto something.

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;512019]Because it's false.

Outside of that, you might be onto something.[/quote]

Dude, get real. The Skins were completely flat in the first quarter. They started fighting in the second quarter. But you could tell after Cooley fumbled the defense was not emotionally up, and they came out and got ran up on by Cedric Benson.

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

[quote=Beemnseven;512016]So we have lots of "high character guys" who just plain suck?

They mailed it in today. I don't see why people find that statement so appalling.[/quote]

I wouldn't say they suck. They're just not as good as we all think they are.

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;512019]Because it's false.

Outside of that, you might be onto something.[/quote]

Yep, falling to the Bengals with a playoff berth hanging in the balance was actually a Herculean effort.

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

[quote=skinsfan69;512015][/b]

[B]I'm not so sure he's a whole lot better. His has a a higher completion % cause all he does is throw passes 10 yards and under. I think he'd be just as good if not better if he stayed in Al's offense. I've yet to see Zorn let JC do something he was real good at under Al. Run the no huddle. Poor coaching. [/B][/quote]I think Campbell will likely suggest the no huddle in the offseason, and Zorn will let him do it.

Campbell's INT rate is second in the NFL to Jeff Garcia, his pocket presence has significantly improved (arguably out of necessity), and he will never have to face a schedule of pass defenses as hard as he had to this season the rest of his career.

The drop in interception rate has not come at the expense of any of the rest of his production. He was a 1 to 1 type guy in TD/INT ratio through 2007, he's now a 2 to 1 type guy. The completion percentage increase shows that his decreased INT rate is real, not a fluke, suggests that perhaps the fact that his TD rate isn't any high might be a fluke, and he's actually improved his Y/A, albiet slightly.

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;512030]I think Campbell will likely suggest the no huddle in the offseason, and Zorn will let him do it.

Campbell's INT rate is second in the NFL to Jeff Garcia, his pocket presence has significantly improved (arguably out of necessity), and he will never have to face a schedule of pass defenses as hard as he had to this season the rest of his career.

The drop in interception rate has not come at the expense of any of the rest of his production. He was a 1 to 1 type guy in TD/INT ratio through 2007, he's now a 2 to 1 type guy. The completion percentage increase shows that his decreased INT rate is real, not a fluke, suggests that perhaps the fact that his TD rate isn't any high might be a fluke, and he's actually improved his Y/A, albiet slightly.[/quote]

You're comparing the 2008 Campbell as if he's still the same guy he was in the first 8 games. See my previous post, it's been a tale of two seasons. He has 6 INTs in the last 6 games.

[url]http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-locker-room/27119-d-c-examiner-zorns-job-jeopardy-17.html#post512011[/url]

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

[quote=bjschmonsees;511695][quote=A10sROCK;510522]

Snyder only let go of General Schottenheimer because he wouldn't share the personnel decision duties with a GM. He had a 8-8 first season.
QUOTE]


There is a huge diffence between going 0-5 and finishing 8-8 and starting 6-2 and going 8-8...[/quote]
what.. the order of sucking vs doing well?

0-5 then 8-3.. or this year 6-2 then maybe 2-6 if we really do go 8-8

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

[quote=Schneed10;512023]Dude, get real. The Skins were completely flat in the first quarter. They started fighting in the second quarter. But you could tell after Cooley fumbled the defense was not emotionally up, and they came out and got ran up on by Cedric Benson.[/quote]Did you even know that the Lions were up two TDs on the Bucs this year in the first quarter?

Here's the point: you can't assume that the team coming out flat is because of any coaching issue. Sometimes, the opponent just capitalizes on the sudden change opportunity. The sample size isn't big enough to claim a conclusive evidence.

I'm glad Cedric Benson [I]almost[/I] got 3.5 yards per carry against us and thusly we can assume that someone wasn't trying.

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;512017]I think Zorn has done a poor job of delegating his responsibilities, but this is an easy adjustment made in the offseason.

I think, first and foremost, that we are ignoring obvious good things about the offense when we point out that it isn't scoring points. We were on the freaking one inch line with downs to go and couldn't get it in, which can't be put on the coaching. Our kicker is really struggling, which can't be put on the coaching, or the offense at all.

And then I think that the offensive personnel is not nearly as good as it was last year. Well, it's close, but all the changes were downgrades.

That, and we were missing two offensive lineman this game.

None of that can be put on Zorn. [B]His adjustments haven't helped us score points, but he is doing a much better job than Blache is, with less to work with. [/B]For all the crap we give Cerrato for his DL acquisitions, his inability to add anything of consequence to the offense has put Zorn in a position where, for the year, his unit has greatly overachieved.

And while the holes were there last year, they're nothing like the holes we've opened for him this year. Portis' success is a lot individual, but a lot due to the scheme change upfront, which improved the blocking at 4/5 positions, while making them easier to read for Portis because it's very close to what he had in Denver. We're a top five line blocking for the run, or at least we were with Samuels.[/quote]

So let's see here. We have a top ten defense, the defesne has kept us in every single game this year, even w/out having a pass rusher and the offense is pretty much last in scoring and you say Zorn is doing his job better than Blache???????? Sorry Tripp but you're flat out wrong here.

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

[quote=Schneed10;512031]You're comparing the 2008 Campbell as if he's still the same guy he was in the first 8 games. See my previous post, it's been a tale of two seasons. He has 6 INTs in the last 6 games.

[URL]http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-locker-room/27119-d-c-examiner-zorns-job-jeopardy-17.html#post512011[/URL][/quote]He also played 4 great defenses, and has zero INTs against the two weaker defenses he's faced. He's also getting little help.

Part of this six game stretch, Campbell was struggling to see the field, but he's clearly seeing it well now. To lump his last three games in with the first two games in this series, while eliminating anything before the Pittsburgh is selective sampling.

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

[quote=Schneed10;512031]You're comparing the 2008 Campbell as if he's still the same guy he was in the first 8 games. See my previous post, it's been a tale of two seasons. He has 6 INTs in the last 6 games.

[URL]http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-locker-room/27119-d-c-examiner-zorns-job-jeopardy-17.html#post512011[/URL][/quote]

some of those aren't his fault.

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

[quote=skinsfan69;512038]So let's see here. We have a top ten defense, the defesne has kept us in every single game this year, even w/out having a pass rusher and the offense is pretty much last in scoring and you say Zorn is doing his job better than Blache???????? Sorry Tripp but you're flat out wrong here.[/quote]Well, perhaps. But Zorn isn't giving up yards by doing stupid things. Blache is. So while it is my opinion that Zorn should be given a pass for not having the answers (and a lot of smart people are going to disagree with me), it's pretty obvious that Blache has called some moronic defenses that decrease our chances of getting off the field, especially on third down.

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;512037]Did you even know that the Lions were up two TDs on the Bucs this year in the first quarter?

Here's the point: you can't assume that the team coming out flat is because of any coaching issue. Sometimes, the opponent just capitalizes on the sudden change opportunity. The sample size isn't big enough to claim a conclusive evidence.

I'm glad Cedric Benson [I]almost[/I] got 3.5 yards per carry against us and thusly we can assume that someone wasn't trying.[/quote]

Or we can simply look at the results of the game, see that the we were outscored by a team that had no business outscoring us and can thusly assume that our players didn't give it their all today.

It's not as difficult as you desparately want to make it.

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;512037]Did you even know that the Lions were up two TDs on the Bucs this year in the first quarter?

Here's the point: you can't assume that the team coming out flat is because of any coaching issue. Sometimes, the opponent just capitalizes on the sudden change opportunity. The sample size isn't big enough to claim a conclusive evidence.

[B]I'm glad Cedric Benson [I]almost[/I] got 3.5 yards per carry against us and thusly we can assume that someone wasn't trying.[/B][/quote]

There you go again. If you're going to pump stats at me you're going to need to improve your analytical thinking.

Go back and read my post. I said we came out flat in the first quarter and got ran up on, and then we started fighting in the second quarter. So don't throw Benson's FULL GAME line at me.

In the first quarter, he ran for 41 yards on 7 carries, for nearly a 6 yard average. Then the Redskins started shutting him down, allowing only 32 yards on 14 carries the rest of the way. So what, the Redskins forgot how to defend the run in the first quarter and suddenly remembered in the second?? No, they didn't get their heads in the game early enough, and got run over.

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

[quote=skinsfan69;512041]some of those aren't his fault.[/quote]

Yes that's totally true, but Campbell's decline in play over the recent five to six game stretch is also reflected in his yards per attempt and completion percentage numbers as well.

All this was to say that GTripp was kind of being ridiculous by telling us that in 2008 Campbell has a better INT rate than everyone but Jeff Garcia. Nobody cares, because he's at that level on the strength of his first 8 games. But we all know from watching the team, the performances we saw from the Redskins in the first 8 games are long gone.

It doesn't make a lot of sense to evaluate Campbell's full season stats when what we're really asking ourselves is why has the team fallen so hard from it's great start? We should look at the stats SINCE then, not over the whole season. It's convoluted reasoning.

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

[quote=Schneed10;512048]There you go again. If you're going to pump stats at me you're going to need to improve your analytical thinking.

Go back and read my post. I said we came out flat in the first quarter and got ran up on, and then we started fighting in the second quarter. So don't throw Benson's FULL GAME line at me.

In the first quarter, he ran for 41 yards on 7 carries, for nearly a 6 yard average. Then the Redskins started shutting him down, allowing only 32 yards on 14 carries the rest of the way. [/quote]If you're right though, what you are saying is that we should have shut Benson down in the first quarter, and he should have rushed for two yards per attempt, or whatever he did the rest of the way (32/14).

But a lot of times, the only difference between the five carries you want to discuss and the rest of his line is a minor tweak or two that Blache had to make, and not because of coming out flat.

I mean, yeah, the first quarter is when we really struggled to handle their offense. Given. Obviously. You're asserting that they came out flat, which I don't totally disagree with, but also that they should be immune to coming out flat? I think?

Why should this team be immune to bad plays in the first quarter, prior to adjustments being made?

[quote]So what, the Redskins forgot how to defend the run in the first quarter and suddenly remembered in the second?? No, they didn't get their heads in the game early enough, and got run over.[/quote]Is it okay if both of these things sound about equally implausible and nominal? How can you assert something that isn't disprovable?

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

I think that Zorn tried to load up his plate at the buffet a bit too much.. HC.. basically the QB Coach.. calling the plays, etc.. things he hasn't had to deal with before

Granted if you're taking a positional coach and making them a head coach, maybe that's something to be expected since they have something to prove

I wonder how Sherman Smith feels and what he would be doing

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

[quote=Schneed10;512049]Yes that's totally true, but Campbell's decline in play over the recent five to six game stretch is also reflected in his yards per attempt and completion percentage numbers as well.

All this was to say that GTripp was kind of being ridiculous by telling us that in 2008 Campbell has a better INT rate than everyone but Jeff Garcia. Nobody cares, because he's at that level on the strength of his first 8 games. [B]But we all know from watching the team, the performances we saw from the Redskins in the first 8 games are long gone.[/B]

It doesn't make a lot of sense to evaluate Campbell's full season stats when what we're really asking ourselves is why has the team fallen so hard from it's great start? We should look at the stats SINCE then, not over the whole season. It's convoluted reasoning.[/quote]No. No, no, no, no, no.

It's selective sampling to say this. Campbell's two worst games of the last six were also the furthest away. Film study shows me that he got back on track against Seattle and has played at a pretty consistent level since then.

If we are in fact asking why they've fallen so far, we have to look at the reasons why when Campbell improved his level of play, the rest of the offense didn't improve theirs?

Cooley, Portis, Sellers, and Betts have all fumbled the ball away in the last four games, and the receivers have been going through a serious case of the dropsies. That's your answer.

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

If Zorn gets canned, it wouldn't surprise me. It would dissapoint me, I think the real problem is Cerrato (with Snyder talking in his ear). He just doesn't seem to be able to address a need the last few years. I love some of the picks, like Landry and Horton, but the lines haven't been addressed in the top of the draft in recent years. He hasn't drafted wisely in my opinion. The O & D lines just can't man up with the better lines in the league.

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;512050]If you're right though, what you are saying is that we should have shut Benson down in the first quarter, and he should have rushed for two yards per attempt, or whatever he did the rest of the way (32/14).

But a lot of times, the only difference between the five carries you want to discuss and the rest of his line is a minor tweak or two that Blache had to make, and not because of coming out flat.

I mean, yeah, the first quarter is when we really struggled to handle their offense. Given. Obviously. You're asserting that they came out flat, which I don't totally disagree with, but also that they should be immune to coming out flat? I think?

Why should this team be immune to bad plays in the first quarter, prior to adjustments being made?[/quote]

I agree it was probably a combination. And if there is one thing I'm on the same page with you on, it is Blache. He is slow to make adjustments, and the primary evidence of this is the lack of presnap movements directed by London Fletcher. Under GW, Fletcher was moving guys all over the place, making adjustments based on the formation and personnel. This never happens under Blache. Blache waits to see a few plays before he begins adjusting, and by then it's often too late; it probably contributed to our early game deficit this week.

[quote=GTripp0012;512050]Is it okay if both of these things sound about equally implausible and nominal? How can you assert something that isn't disprovable?[/quote]

Because it's an opinion based on what I saw on TV today. There are no stats to measure effort. I simply saw 11 guys lined up on defense, but failing to attack the line of scrimmage with vigor. I didn't see guys flying to the ball, and I didn't see guys taking on pulling blockers willingly.

Should we expect that the team should never come out flat at any time during the season? No, that's unrealistic. But is it unreasonable to expect them to get up for a December game when they're 7-6 and in the playoff hunt? Not at all. A Joe Gibbs Redskin team may not have won this game, we don't know that for sure. But I can promise you they would not have come out flat.

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

[quote=Schneed10;512056]Because it's an opinion based on what I saw on TV today. There are no stats to measure effort. I simply saw 11 guys lined up on defense, but failing to attack the line of scrimmage with vigor. I didn't see guys flying to the ball, and I didn't see guys taking on pulling blockers willingly.

Should we expect that the team should never come out flat at any time during the season? No, that's unrealistic. But is it unreasonable to expect them to get up for a December game when they're 7-6 and in the playoff hunt? Not at all. A Joe Gibbs Redskin team may not have won this game, we don't know that for sure. But I can promise you they would not have come out flat.[/quote]Schneed, I respect your opinion, and I don't want to come off like I'm dismissing it because you are saying it. It's actually quite the opposite. I'm re-evaluating my own opinion becuase you've seen something that I didn't.

But I'm still brought back to the conclusion that it's probably not just a lack of effort, especially considering what this team did last year, and in 2005, and that they certainly knew what was at stake, and then they got their shit together, both sides of the ball, in the second quarter.

So if that's what you saw, I think we'll just have to agree to disagree. I'll be looking at the tape tonight, and will consider the possibility that I am incorrect.

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

But this does all lead back to the point that our first quarter has been horrendous on both sides of the ball. It seems to me that there has to be some cause.
It's been all season long that our first quarter is our biggest achilles heel. (again can't find the points for and against in the first quarter)

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;512053]No. No, no, no, no, no.

It's selective sampling to say this. Campbell's two worst games of the last six were also the furthest away. Film study shows me that he got back on track against Seattle and has played at a pretty consistent level since then.

If we are in fact asking why they've fallen so far, we have to look at the reasons why when Campbell improved his level of play, the rest of the offense didn't improve theirs?

Cooley, Portis, Sellers, and Betts have all fumbled the ball away in the last four games, and the receivers have been going through a serious case of the dropsies. That's your answer.[/quote]

I agree that turnovers are the biggest culprit for our recent swoon. I agree that Campbell has faced tougher defenses over the last five games. I agree that the supporting cast has let him down as pass protection has failed at times.

I definitely think that if the supporting cast played better, Campbell's numbers would reflect it.

And please, I understand statistical sampling. Campbell's numbers are a product of the team's play around him, so to look at his numbers the past 5 games and say that Campbell has regressed would not be correct.

But to spit out full-season stats on Jason Campbell is about as helpful and meaningful as the next duplicate "fire Jim Zorn" thread we're sure to have on this site.

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;512045]Well, perhaps. But Zorn isn't giving up yards by doing stupid things. Blache is. So while it is my opinion that Zorn should be given a pass for not having the answers (and a lot of smart people are going to disagree with me), it's pretty obvious that Blache has called some moronic defenses that decrease our chances of getting off the field, especially on third down.[/quote]

Bottom line is we don't give up a lot of points and I believe we're at the top of the NFL in 3 and outs. Blache has more than done his job.

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

im all about "NOT" changing again, BUT... zorn has had some horrible play calls and especially today against the bungs. i mean so bad that if i was the play caller it wouldn't have been that bad. so is he ready???? i think he gets canned and we get cowher. just imo

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

[quote=skinsfan69;512061]Bottom line is we don't give up a lot of points and I believe we're at the top of the NFL in 3 and outs. Blache has more than done his job.[/quote]No. Because Dallas is holding New York to three offensive points right now, and Philly held them to seven offensive points last week. Meanwhile, this exact same struggling OL managed to pile up 400+ yards of offense against us. Same thing with Dallas two weeks before. The overall product is right around the top ten range, but that's the talent carrying over. Blache has hurt us when we needed him most, against the opponents who know us the best.

If he gets outcoached by the rest of the NFL, I'm more forgiving. He gets outcoached by the rest of the NFC East (and he'll have one more shot next week), and we can't justify keeping him around.

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

I tell you what, if his schemes beat Reid and Morningweg's schemes next week, I'll openly support him returning in the offseason. If he pulls the trifecta of getting outcoached within the division, I'm done with Blache.

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

[quote=Beemnseven;509868] If you were Dan Snyder would Zorn's job be in jeopardy? [/quote]

That's a trick question because if i was Snyder Zorn's job would be in jeopardy because that is exactly the kind of bone football decisions that he makes.

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;512097]No. Because Dallas is holding New York to three offensive points right now, and Philly held them to seven offensive points last week. Meanwhile, this exact same struggling OL managed to pile up 400+ yards of offense against us. Same thing with Dallas two weeks before. The overall product is right around the top ten range, but that's the talent carrying over. Blache has hurt us when we needed him most, against the opponents who know us the best.

If he gets outcoached by the rest of the NFL, I'm more forgiving. He gets outcoached by the rest of the NFC East (and he'll have one more shot next week), and we can't justify keeping him around.[/quote]
I would hate to see this defense if Blache was on top of his game. Opposing offenses would be lucky to gain 150 yards, and score 3 points against us. I'm sorry Tripp, but I can't imagine this defense playing much better than what they already have this season.

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

[quote=RMSkins;512106]I would hate to see this defense if Blache was on top of his game. Opposing offenses would be lucky to gain 150 yards, and score 3 points against us. I'm sorry Tripp, but I can't imagine this defense playing much better than what they already have this season.[/quote]What about last year? We were much better last year.

Even post Taylor. We didn't blitz a whole lot, disguised coverages well, and got production from our DL. Carter had ten sacks.

We're an above average unit, but we are also the worst defense in the division. I think you could make an argument that we're also the worst offense in the division, but we are the worst defense, and the worst coached defense in the NFC East. If we want to be competitive, we have to compare ourselves to the competition in the East, not the rest of the NFL.

The first turnover did not help, for sure. But to think that any other defense in the division would play that poorly in Cincinnati is insanity.

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;512108]What about last year? We were much better last year.

Even post Taylor. We didn't blitz a whole lot, disguised coverages well, and got production from our DL. Carter had ten sacks.

We're an above average unit, but we are also the worst defense in the division. I think you could make an argument that we're also the worst offense in the division, but we are the worst defense, and the worst coached defense in the NFC East. If we want to be competitive, we have to compare ourselves to the competition in the East, not the rest of the NFL.[/quote]
I see what you're saying Tripp, but look at our first loss to the Giants and our loss to the Cowboys. We held the Giants to 16 points and the Cowboys to 14 points. If we had any semblance of an offense in those two games we could've very easily been 4-1 in the division right now.

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

[quote=RMSkins;512110]I see what you're saying Tripp, but look at our first loss to the Giants and our loss to the Cowboys. We held the Giants to 16 points and the Cowboys to 14 points. If we had any semblance of an offense in those two games we could've very easily been 4-1 in the division right now.[/quote]14 points because their QB was intercepted on awful throws.

I mean, Romo couldn't even throw the football when he tore us to shreds with dumpoffs to Barber. Couldn't even grip the thing. 6 yards per play for the Cowboys on offense in that game. If not for the two turnovers the defense got, which certainly weren't because of Blache's scheme, we're talking 24-10, maybe 28-10. It was that bad.

Sorry, if a coordinator is unprepared to defend Byron Leftwich, unprepared to take away the passes a QB with a broken thumb can make, unprepared to adjust after Eli Manning beats 8 consecutive blitzes in the rain, he can't coach for a playoff team. We could have won all those games by playing smarter. Who knows if we would have. But we made it easy on them. By my standards, that's grounds for dismissal.

And I realize the total product has been good. We've played some really incompetent passing games. This pass defense is closer to 2006 than 2007, and I was frustrated with Grilliams after 2006.

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

I'm voting yes, but I wouldn't say his job should be in "jeopardy" per say. Bring him back for another year but he's definitely on the hot seat to show significant improvement in 2009.

What I'm interested to see is how Snyder will see all of this. Is he truly committed to Zorn for the long haul or was he just a stop gap until a sexier name became available? We'll see the answer soon enough.

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

Today's loss must have Snyder seething, check out some of this, take from it what you will:

[quote]Standing just to the podium's side, next to the interview room door was Karl Swanson, a publicity official for owner Daniel Snyder. And while the room was smaller than most in the NFL, he had never taken such a prominent position at a Zorn press conference. The tone was more stern, the mood more ominous.

"So many little things occurred throughout the course of the game that we must look at," Zorn said. "We must play better if we want to earn the right to win. You have to earn a win in this league. We must play better if we are going to earn the right to win. We certainly didn't earn the right to win today."

After a handful of questions, another Redskins official cut the press conference short, the first time such a thing has happened this season.

Looming over everything was the odd tiff that developed this week when star running back Clinton Portis criticized Zorn in a radio interview. Even though Portis later seemed to back away from the comments after a long meeting with Zorn on Wednesday and said nothing critical about the coach on Sunday, the controversy has taken a life of its own. The fact Portis is a favorite of Snyder's led to speculation that Zorn might be in danger of losing his job and might already have lost respect among the players he is coaching. [/quote]link: [URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/14/AR2008121402534.html"]Suddenly a Not-So-Fun Bunch - washingtonpost.com[/URL]

re: D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;512097]No. Because Dallas is holding New York to three offensive points right now, and Philly held them to seven offensive points last week. Meanwhile, this exact same struggling OL managed to pile up 400+ yards of offense against us. Same thing with Dallas two weeks before. The overall product is right around the top ten range, but that's the talent carrying over. Blache has hurt us when we needed him most, against the opponents who know us the best.

If he gets outcoached by the rest of the NFL, I'm more forgiving. He gets outcoached by the rest of the NFC East (and he'll have one more shot next week), and we can't justify keeping him around.[/quote]

Give me a break. The defense still holds the point total down and gives our offense the ball back. That's the bottom line. You can spin it anyway you want to. Dallas has better players on their defense than we do. Do we have anyone that can dominate like Ware or Ratliff? No. Simply put, when Dallas' front 7 decides to play to their potential they're pretty damn good. And the Giants wr's just beat our CB's. Hixon just beat our guys. Manning made some perfect throws. Why do you blame that on scheme? You simply refuse to give credit to the Giants for having better players.