Re: King predicts Haynesworth to Redskins
 

He stomped on a Cowboy, how he could not be a Redskins! LOL. Just kidding.

A statement from AH's agent, nothing unexpected...

[url=http://blogs.nfl.com/2009/02/24/agent-no-deal-between-haynesworth-redskins/]NFL.com Blogs » Blog Archive Agent: No deal between Haynesworth, Redskins «[/url]

Re: King predicts Haynesworth to Redskins
 

[quote=44ever;529700]Hey DirtyLandry, How long have you been watching/fan of the Skins? If you don't mind.[/quote]

Since I can remember. Close to 30 years.

Re: King predicts Haynesworth to Redskins
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;529699]Haven't we heard similar buzz on high profile FAs before: Lance Briggs and Ocho Stinko? I'm hoping this pans out the same, a lot of noise, no action and Haynesworth stays in TN. These agents all play the "Snyder will pay my guy" card to leverage their current team.[/quote]

Good point, the difference here is that Briggs and 85 involved trades where the other team had to agree, this is strictly dollars with the player in question

[quote]If the info I saw was correct, TN offered 4yr/36M/20-25M guaranteed, approx 9M/yr. In a link from Paul Kuharsky at ESPN: [URL="http://myespn.go.com/blogs/nflnation/0-5-121/The-case-for-paying-Haynesworth--ASAP.html"]The case for paying Haynesworth ASAP - NFL Nation - ESPN[/URL]: He suggests a 5-7 percent increase on Jared Allen's contract 6yr/77M approx $ 12.8M / yr. and then mentions it's likely Haynesworth won't accept that. Now we're seeing numbers (rumors) that we're offering $ 100M / 35M guaranteed / approx. 15+M per year[/quote]

I believe that the Titans have upped, or will up, their offer. Don't remember the details

[quote]At the TN level Haynesworth is 7.3% of the cap, release JT and we're there, I can live with that. At the increase on JA's contract we're at 10.4% of the salary cap, with the negatives that come along with Haynesworth I can't see putting 10% of our cap on one guy unless he's a franchise QB (Brady, Manning level), Randy Moss in his prime, LT in his prime, Reggie White in his prime. But definitely not on Haynesworth whose scouting report hasn't changed since his rookie report:

[FONT=MS Reference Sans Serif][B][I]Positives:[/I][/B] Massive frame and size and a great body. Tremendous athlete for his size. Has a great upside if he will pay the price. Very quick off the ball and explosive when he plays at a good pad level. Can be overpowering and dominating inside. No one man can block him when he is motivated and uses good technique. Played much harder in '01 than he ever had before. [/FONT]
[FONT=MS Reference Sans Serif][COLOR=#000000][B][I]Negatives:[/I][/B] Immature and needs to be pushed at times. Can't be relied upon. Is not a hard worker or self-starter. Takes too many downs off. Will get too upright and lean on the offensive linemen when he gets tired at times. Does not play nasty very often.[/COLOR] [/FONT]
[FONT=MS Reference Sans Serif][COLOR=#000000][B][I]Summary:[/I][/B] [B]The type of player who could make your draft or break your heart.[/B] Could be the best defensive tackle in the draft and the best defensive lineman from Tennessee since Reggie White if he stays focused and works hard.[/COLOR][/FONT]

Also, for whatever reason, injury/suspension, not counting his rookie year, he's missed 23% of his games. He is also in a rotation (see below) again from Paul Kuharsky at ESPN (who is in favor of TN resigning AH at the $77M level)

[I]"He gets dinged and you're probably not going to get 16 games out of him."[/I]
Probably not. But with certain players even 13 games is worth it, and he's one of them. [B]The fact is he's not the durable, every-play guy[/B]. The Titans rotate their linemen and know how to get the most out of him when they have him. [B]He's going to need a trainer's assistance on the field at least once a game.[/B] It's part of the package. Name all the teams that wouldn't be willing to live with it in exchange for the payoff when he's out there.

I'm not paying $ 80M + for a guy that isn't a "durable, every-play" guy. I'm hoping and praying this is just an agent using the Skins for leverage again and Smootsmack is wrong. Unfortunately (in this case), Smootsmack is right a lot more often than he's wrong.[/quote]

The concerns about him are absolutely valid, and if anything you'd hope that the Redskins are building things into the contract that would factor that into account

And don't worry, I'm not always right :)

Re: King predicts Haynesworth to Redskins
 

[quote=DirtyLandry;529705]Since I can remember. Close to 30 years.[/quote]

Thanks, I was just curious because of the nature of the deal. Some of the younger fans will go for anything for lack of history with the team. But Im assuming you have seen your share of the bonehead mistakes this team has made over the years. Personally, I just dont trust the deal.

Re: King predicts Haynesworth to Redskins
 

[quote=Ruhskins;529704]He stomped on a Cowboy, how he could not be a Redskins! LOL. Just kidding.

A statement from AH's agent, nothing unexpected...

[url=http://blogs.nfl.com/2009/02/24/agent-no-deal-between-haynesworth-redskins/]NFL.com Blogs » Blog Archive Agent: No deal between Haynesworth, Redskins «[/url][/quote]

Ahhhhhhhhhhh! :Smoker:

Re: King predicts Haynesworth to Redskins
 

[quote=44ever;529710]Thanks, I was just curious because of the nature of the deal. Some of the younger fans will go for anything for lack of history with the team. But Im assuming you have seen your share of the bonehead mistakes this team has made over the years. Personally, I just dont trust the deal.[/quote]

Absolutely and I completely understand your apprehension. It's just that I have been crying for a defensive tackle like this for years now. Admittedly, this proposed deal is probably not the best thing financially for the Redskins, but at this point I kind of have an 'all or nothing' attitude. I would rather see us overpay for a proven commodity that could help the entire D then to sign/resign a bunch of average players and hope to win. I am well aware of the fact that there are other needs on this team, but I believe they are few. I maintain that we still have guys already waiting in the wings that could one day produce.

Re: King predicts Haynesworth to Redskins
 

Too bad we gave up our 2nd round pick this year. I'm sure he's not as good but a good deal cheaper.....[url=http://www.nashvillecitypaper.com/news.php?viewStory=66262]Missouri's Hood a potential fit for Titans d-line on Nashville City Paper[/url]

Re: King predicts Haynesworth to Redskins
 

[quote=DirtyLandry;529717]Absolutely and I completely understand your apprehension. It's just that I have been crying for a defensive tackle like this for years now. Admittedly, this proposed deal is probably not the best thing financially for the Redskins, but at this point I kind of have an 'all or nothing' attitude. I would rather see us overpay for a proven commodity that could help the entire D then to sign/resign a bunch of average players and hope to win. I am well aware of the fact that there are other needs on this team, but I believe they are few. I maintain that we still have guys already waiting in the wings that could one day produce.[/quote]

I can appreciate your perspective. Believe me I'm fighting back the urge to see it done. But at what expence is my question.

Re: King predicts Haynesworth to Redskins
 

If we give him $15-$16M per year with a $40M signing bonus and totally handicap our ability to improve in other areas, then Danny boy should start a website: [U]moreofthesame.com[/U] We went one off-season without forking over a huge deal, so I guess he'll just compesate for that by making AH the richest defensive player ever.

This whole thing is annoying to me. Haynesworth has plenty of red flags, we're not in a good cap situation to begin with, there are cheaper alternatives available (shit, just give Canty 5yrs $40M), and we've had these kind of deals kill us in the past. The whole thing gives me a really bad feeling.

Re: King predicts Haynesworth to Redskins
 

[quote=Paintrain;529019]For the full article: [url=http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/peter_king/02/22/mmqb/index.html]Ray Lewis*a Cowboy? Matt Cassel a Chief? Free agency thoughts - Peter King - SI.com[/url]

I know there is a lot of split opinions on here about Haynesworth, is he a pocket collapsing DT we've all been craving or is he playing for a pay day and now will get fat and lazy?[/quote]

Fat, lazy and oft-injured. His best years are behind him, and he's had a history of injury. The Skins need to transform into Tennessee in this equation. They need to be the team that drafts players like Haynesworth, not the one that signs him as a 29 year old free agent.

Do as the Steelers do. Pay them once, pay them twice, but let some other sucker pay them the third time.

Re: King predicts Haynesworth to Redskins
 

[quote=GMScud;529721]If we give him $15-$16M per year with a $40M signing bonus and totally handicap our ability to improve in other areas, then Danny boy should start a website: [U]moreofthesame.com[/U] We went one off-season without forking over a huge deal, so I guess he'll just compesate for that by making AH the richest defensive player ever.

This whole thing is annoying to me. Haynesworth has plenty of red flags, we're not in a good cap situation to begin with, there are cheaper alternatives available (shit, [B]just give Canty 5yrs $40M[/B]), and we've had these kind of deals kill us in the past. The whole thing gives me a really bad feeling.[/quote]

All of a sudden that seems like a bargain:)

Re: King predicts Haynesworth to Redskins
 

All I can say is it's Dannys team. Whatever happens, what are we going to do about it? You can either accept it, b*tch a little and still cheer on your team, or you can change allegiance. It could be worse. We could all be Browns fans, or worse yet Raiders fans (Al Davis has lost all of his marbles). At any rate, like another poster said, and I'm paraphrasing, I will get on the roller coaster and enjoy the ride.

Re: King predicts Haynesworth to Redskins
 

[quote=GMScud;529721]If we give him $15-$16M per year with a $40M signing bonus and totally handicap our ability to improve in other areas, then Danny boy should start a website: [U]moreofthesame.com[/U] We went one off-season without forking over a huge deal, so I guess he'll just compesate for that by making AH the richest defensive player ever.[/quote]

I don't think he's going to get numbers that high, at least not from us. And I'm certain we're not going to make any move that will totally handicap our ability to improve in other areas. If for no other reason than we're not giving up draft picks to get him.

[quote]This whole thing is annoying to me. Haynesworth has plenty of red flags, we're not in a good cap situation to begin with, there are cheaper alternatives available (shit, just give Canty 5yrs $40M), and we've had these kind of deals kill us in the past. The whole thing gives me a really bad feeling.[/quote]

Cheaper yes, but as impactful? And what if they got both Haynesworth and Canty? And took a linemen at #13?

Re: King predicts Haynesworth to Redskins
 

[quote=SmootSmack;529726]I don't think he's going to get numbers that high, at least not from us. And I'm certain we're not going to make any move that will totally handicap our ability to improve in other areas. If for no other reason than we're not giving up draft picks to get him.



Cheaper yes, but as impactful? [B]And what if they got both Haynesworth and Canty? And took a linemen at #13[/B]?[/quote]

Can that be done? Because I was under the impression that by signimg AH hindered our ability to aquire a Canty or Hall

Re: King predicts Haynesworth to Redskins
 

It's unlikely, probably means both Hall and Springs are gone but it's not impossible.

Re: King predicts Haynesworth to Redskins
 

[quote=SmootSmack;529726]I don't think he's going to get numbers that high, at least not from us. And I'm certain we're not going to make any move that will totally handicap our ability to improve in other areas. If for no other reason than we're not giving up draft picks to get him. [/quote]

I was just going off of Schefter's projections as far as the contract. I suppose I shouldn't have used the phrase "totally handicap" as far as other additions are concerned. I think if we could sign Canty for half of what we would give Haynesworth, it would leave us more room to build at other positions through FA, and also give us more room to sign draft picks, especially if we trade down and end up with more overall picks. You've got to see where I'm coming from as far as Haynesworth's red flags. Age, durability, desire, character... pretty glaring I'd say.


[quote=SmootSmack;529726]Cheaper yes, but as impactful? And what if they got both Haynesworth and Canty? And took a linemen at #13?[/quote]

Look, If AH can come here and be as effective as he was for Tennessee last year for multiple seasons for the Redskins, then rock and roll. But we had the 4th overall defense without him. Let's say we signed Canty to bolster the D-line, and his smaller deal allowed us more flexibility in improving the LB/O-line positions; would that not be better overall for the team? I think so.

I don't doubt AH can be a stud when he wants to. Again, I just have a bad feeling.

Re: King predicts Haynesworth to Redskins
 

[quote=SmootSmack;529728][B]It's unl[/B]ikely, [B]probably means both Hall and Springs are gone [/B]but it's not impossible.[/quote]

Thats what makes it such a tough call for me. I could'nt care less about the $$$ its what we give up on the field that concerns me. Is AH worth giving up Hall, Springs and possibly a chance to get another proven playmaker? Man, I just don't like it. I know he would add excitement but by the time rest of the puzzle is put together and the team gels AH will probably be worthless. We just have other needs that can be filled faster without the big hit of AH. IMO

Re: King predicts Haynesworth to Redskins
 

[quote=44Deezel;529723][QUOTE]Fat, lazy and oft-injured. [B]His best years are behind him[/B], and he's had a history of injury. [/quote]
This is pure speculation.
[quote]The Skins need to transform into Tennessee in this equation. They need to be the team that drafts players like Haynesworth, not the one that signs him as a 29 year old free agent.[/quote]
Ideally, you'd love to have your FO run like a well oiled machine and consistently pluck gems from the draft, but this is reality. Dan and Vinny run the show. Additionally, blue chip players like Haynesworth are extremely rare.[quote]Do as the Steelers do. Pay them once, pay them twice, but let some other sucker pay them the third time.[/quote]
Or do as the Patriots do and pay them once and let some other sucker pay them. However, I think this philosophy has finally caught up to them.

Re: King predicts Haynesworth to Redskins
 

[quote=GMScud;529729]I was just going off of Schefter's projections as far as the contract. I suppose I shouldn't have used the phrase "totally handicap" as far as other additions are concerned. I think if we could sign Canty for half of what we would give Haynesworth, it would leave us more room to build at other positions through FA, and also give us more room to sign draft picks, especially if we trade down and end up with more overall picks. You've got to see where I'm coming from as far as Haynesworth's red flags. Age, durability, desire, character... pretty glaring I'd say.




Look, If AH can come here and be as effective as he was for Tennessee last year for multiple seasons for the Redskins, then rock and roll. But we had the 4th overall defense without him. Let's say we signed Canty to bolster the D-line, and his smaller deal allowed us more flexibility in improving the LB/O-line positions; would that not be better overall for the team? I think so.

I don't doubt AH can be a stud when he wants to. Again, I just have a bad feeling.[/quote]

Thats basically what I was trying to say in my previous post. You said it better. I agree with your logic 100%

Re: King predicts Haynesworth to Redskins
 

The return of Fred Smoot?

Re: King predicts Haynesworth to Redskins
 

[quote=GMScud;529729]

I don't doubt AH can be a stud when he wants to. Again, I just have a bad feeling.[/quote]

Completely understood. I know what we're paying for...but is that what we're gonna get?

Re: King predicts Haynesworth to Redskins
 

We wouldn't have had this issue if we had just signed Justin Smith last year :)

But seriously folks...the other thing that has to be taken into consideration is the future of two of our interior linemen, Montgomery and Golston. One or both could be gone next year. Surprisingly, I've heard that there's more interest in Golston than Montgomery (who I've heard called a young Haynesworth, both because of his potential and inconsistencies in his dedication). But anyway, it's possible we could lose them...and maybe get a couple of 2nd or 3rd rounders in return.

Re: King predicts Haynesworth to Redskins
 

[quote=44Deezel;529723]Fat, lazy and oft-injured. His best years are behind him, and he's had a history of injury. The Skins need to transform into Tennessee in this equation. They need to be the team that drafts players like Haynesworth, not the one that [B]signs him as a 29 year old free agent.
[/B]
Do as the Steelers do. Pay them once, pay them twice, but let some other sucker pay them the third time.[/quote]

For the record he'll be 28.

Re: King predicts Haynesworth to Redskins
 

[quote=SmootSmack;529735]We wouldn't have had this issue if we had just signed Justin Smith last year :)

But seriously folks...the other thing that has to be taken into consideration is the future of two of our interior linemen, Montgomery and Golston. One or both could be gone next year. Surprisingly, I've heard that there's more interest in Golston than Montgomery (who I've heard called a young Haynesworth, both because of his potential and inconsistencies in his dedication). But anyway, it's possible we could lose them...[B]and maybe get a couple of 2nd or 3rd rounders in return[/B].[/quote]

Do you think that Golston and Montgomery would bring us 2nd or 3rd round picks? These guys are solid, but I don't think they're that good. If a team is willing to give that up, then I'm all for it.

Re: King predicts Haynesworth to Redskins
 

[quote=SmootSmack;529735]We wouldn't have had this issue if we had just signed Justin Smith last year :)

But seriously folks...the other thing that has to be taken into consideration is the future of two of our interior linemen, Montgomery and Golston. One or both could be gone next year. Surprisingly, I've heard that there's more interest in Golston than Montgomery (who I've heard called a young Haynesworth, both because of his potential and inconsistencies in his dedication). [B]But anyway, it's possible we could lose them...and maybe get a couple of 2nd or 3rd rounders in return.[/B][/quote]

If we do lose one of those guys (and the Haynesworth rumor is true), I wouldn't mind it being Golston for a 3rd rounder.

Re: King predicts Haynesworth to Redskins
 

Both Haynesworth and Canty are just rumors at this point of course. But I will say that beyond JLC, almost no one is saying the Redskins are going to heavily pursue Canty. It's more like a plan B or even C for them. It's smelling more like a case of Canty's camp pushing a rumor to drive up his price.

Re: King predicts Haynesworth to Redskins
 

[quote=DirtyLandry;529738]Do you think that Golston and Montgomery would bring us 2nd or 3rd round picks? These guys are solid, but I don't think they're that good. If a team is willing to give that up, then I'm all for it.[/quote]

Has to do with Restricted Free Agency tenders. I don't remember the exact amount, but if they were to tender each around $1.5 million then if another team offered a bit higher and the Redskins didn't match within a week then the Redskins would automatically get a 2nd rounder from the team that signed Golston or Montgomery. But sometimes it can be negotiated down (3rd in 2009, 5th in 2010). I've heard of at least 5 teams that are interested in Golston.

Re: King predicts Haynesworth to Redskins
 

i hate to see our young guys get away like that, but turning a 5th rounder into a 2nd rounder is still a good value, provided you don't waste the pick.

Re: King predicts Haynesworth to Redskins
 

oh yeah, if detriot is serious about haynesworth, that's a really good sign, due to coaching ties to the player.

Re: King predicts Haynesworth to Redskins
 

Apparently I was on to something when I suggested that we should pursue Chris Cantry.
[url=http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2009/02/redskins_like_chris_canty.html]Skins Like Canty ... and Other Free-Agent Buzz - Redskins Insider[/url]

Re: King predicts Haynesworth to Redskins
 

[quote=That Guy;529750]i hate to see our young guys get away like that, but turning a 5th rounder into a 2nd rounder is still a good value, provided you don't waste the pick.[/quote]

I agree. It would be nice to see us come out on top like that.

Re: King predicts Haynesworth to Redskins
 

[quote=vallin21;529600]I am 99.9% sure Haynesworth will be our starting DT in '09I don't think any other team will give out the type of money he's asking for.[/quote]
Two words for you....... "AL DAVIS". You can rest assured if the Raiders were interested in Haynesworth, they would pay that type money.

Re: King predicts Haynesworth to Redskins
 

[quote=SmootSmack;529735]We wouldn't have had this issue if we had just signed Justin Smith last year :)

But seriously folks...the other thing that has to be taken into consideration is the future of two of our interior linemen, Montgomery and Golston. One or both could be gone next year. Surprisingly, I've heard that there's more interest in Golston than Montgomery (who I've heard called a young Haynesworth, both because of his potential and inconsistencies in his dedication). But anyway, it's possible we could lose them...and maybe get a couple of 2nd or 3rd rounders in return.[/quote]

I really hope we can keep them both. Golston is a solid backup and Monty still has a lot of untapped potential.

Re: King predicts Haynesworth to Redskins
 

[quote=That Guy;529752]oh yeah, if detriot is serious about haynesworth, that's a really good sign, due to coaching ties to the player.[/quote]

I was thinking about how quickly Detroit could turn around this year. Sign Haynesworth, draft Curry #1 and trade up with us to get Raji. There's a bunch of talented CB's to be had in FA. With Schwartz running the show that would quickly become a top 5 defense.

Re: King predicts Haynesworth to Redskins
 

Talk about a fan base scorned by the past, most of the comments here are anti-Big Al calling him fat, lazy, often injured, old, past his prime (don't really get those last two) while the Titans message board ([url=http://forums.titansonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44497]Titans Up The Offer On Haynesworth - TitansOnline.com Message Board[/url]) is largely filled with pleas for the Titans to ante up and pay the man. It's interesting that fans who've watched a fat, lazy, often injured, old, past his prime player want him back but we don't want that same player.

For the record, I'm not in the pro-Al camp but it's still kinda funny to see the differences.

Re: King predicts Haynesworth to Redskins
 

[quote=Paintrain;529776]Talk about a fan base scorned by the past, most of the comments here are anti-Big Al calling him fat, lazy, often injured, old, past his prime (don't really get those last two) while the Titans message board ([url=http://forums.titansonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44497]Titans Up The Offer On Haynesworth - TitansOnline.com Message Board[/url]) is largely filled with pleas for the Titans to ante up and pay the man. It's interesting that fans who've watched a fat, lazy, often injured, old, past his prime player want him back but we don't want that same player.

For the record, I'm not in the pro-Al camp but it's still kinda funny to see the differences.[/quote]

That's b/c we can see into the future and know for a fact that Haynesworth is going to be a failure. :Smoker:

Re: King predicts Haynesworth to Redskins
 

[quote=Mattyk72;529768]I really hope we can keep them both. Golston is a solid backup and Monty still has a lot of untapped potential.[/quote]

If we don't sign AH, Monty becomes even more important to me. He has the beef we need up front and if he could just step up and become the player we think he can, it would certainly help this line tremendously. On the other hand, if one of them has to go and we get a 2nd rounder out of it, Ziggy Hood is looking awfully good.

Re: King predicts Haynesworth to Redskins
 

[quote=Paintrain;529776]Talk about a fan base scorned by the past, most of the comments here are anti-Big Al calling him fat, lazy, often injured, old, past his prime (don't really get those last two) while the Titans message board ([url=http://forums.titansonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44497]Titans Up The Offer On Haynesworth - TitansOnline.com Message Board[/url]) is largely filled with pleas for the Titans to ante up and pay the man. It's interesting that fans who've watched a fat, lazy, often injured, old, past his prime player want him back but we don't want that same player.

For the record, I'm not in the pro-Al camp but it's still kinda funny to see the differences.[/quote]

I think you will see the same reaction to Hall once he hits the market. Hall has been call over rated, trouble maker, nobody wants him. locker room cancer ect... But now that we have showcased him to the entire NFL, watch how fast he goes to the same teams that scorned him previously. And how our fanbase will smacktalk our FO for not getting the deal done. I will be one of them. Not exacly the same argument as AH, but the same theme. But your right it is kinda funny.

As far as AH, well he's the Lawrence Taylor of the Titans. I wouldnt want to see him go either.

Re: King predicts Haynesworth to Redskins
 

Ok, I've got a question. Someone at work just informed me that the Skins are reported to be possibly going after Dallas's DE. not Ware but the other one who made the pro bowl. I would think that is the LDE for Dallas and letting Evans go? Has anyone heard it also? My lame source says it was on ESPN. If true would we not have a sick defense; Carter, Haynesworth, Griffin, whoever is Dallas's LDE, Fletcher, Monty, and Taylor, then throw in LL, Horton, CR, and Hall? I just can't imagine how we could do it money wise but if all cylinders worked and there was chemistry.....we probably would have one of the best defenses. again it boils down to money and chemistry.

I'm still looking for the rumor though so don't get your panties in a bunch.

I belive the DE is Canty.

Re: King predicts Haynesworth to Redskins
 

You talking about Chris Canty? Yeah, there's a dozen or so posts in multiple threads here that mention this