Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;1161353]I'm just wondering how other QBs out there would compare on that Cooley scale? I bet a lot of Pro Bowlers would have similar ratings.[/quote]

Profootball Focus had Cousins in their second highest ranking tier at number 8 overall.

Their top 10 QBs:

1. Brady
2. Matt Ryan (this is the guy no one has talked about)
3. Aaron Rodgers
4. Andrew Luck
5. Russell Wilson
6. Derek Carr
7. Drew Brees
8. Cousins
9. Matt Stafford
10. Tyrod Taylor

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

We should be able to critique (positive and negative) a player's performance, demeanor, and leadership skills without being called haters. We all agree that KC turned out to be the true NFL starter as between him and RG3. (And don't think he didn't know it and developed a little chip on his shoulder -- that's the mark of a competitor.)

But here we are, facing another decision point, trying to understand what our FO thinks and plans to do. It's a great discussion. Personally, I'm in the try to sign him at 20m camp, understanding that it might take 22-23. Easy to say, but what if he demands 26? That's the crux of this argument.

That 20-22 range says that there are legitimate reservations about KC, and those of you who say "trust the front office" on a whole range of personnel matters should also trust them here. They have some concerns about signing him at 25-27, and so should we. That doesn't make them or us haters.

Here are my concerns. I have no idea whether this is what the FO is thinking.

His skills as a QB, which are top notch, are not matched by that intangible passion-driven thing that the elite QBs have. KIrk was having a much better year than Cam when we played the Panthers. But Cam, even dinged, willed himself to a great performance while Kirk was so-so. Cam is anything but a "consummate professional," but I want Kirk to have some of what Cam has.

If you listen to Kirk's interviews on Grant and Danny after games, he is oddly dispassionate. I have always liked this about him -- he keeps his cool, he doesn't whine about other players, doesn't get down on himself, etc. But when you think about this in terms of leadership disposition, my radar is catching a little static. I wouldn't care about this much for any position other than QB.

This doesn't mean he isn't a worthy franchise QB. But it should concern us that the most important guy on the team, the biggest cap hit on the team, however talented, may not have that "FU, I'm taking this game over" in his gut. Garçon showed this on Sunday. Kirk did not.

I'm not a Kirk hater. But I'm old enough to remember legions of less talented Skins who thrived in the spotlight. Kirk's stats show that he has the talent, no argument there. I don't know if he has the steel to be truly elite. I'm willing to pay to find out -- the viable options are bleak -- but let's admit the risks involved.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

Just passing on what I heard on ESPN 980 radio just now. Riggins was on and not sure of who the other guys were, they all seem to agree that Cousins will go for the "money grab" and won't give the Redskins any discounts. For various reasons he doesn't feel appreciated, and thinks he was always better than RG3 and never should have sat behind him.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[quote=Buffalo Bob;1161368]Just passing on what I heard on ESPN 980 radio just now. Riggins was on and not sure of who the other guys were, they all seem to agree that Cousins will go for the "money grab" and won't give the Redskins any discounts. For various reasons he doesn't feel appreciated, and thinks he was always better than RG3 and never should have sat behind him.[/quote]

I just don't see Cousins being that contrite. You know, he was giving a pretty fair situation here by Gruden which allowed him to compete and win the job. Hello, that's life.

We hold the trump which is the franchise tag, he is gambling not taking the long term deal. Big time

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[quote=Buffalo Bob;1161368]Just passing on what I heard on ESPN 980 radio just now. Riggins was on and not sure of who the other guys were, they all seem to agree that Cousins will go for the "money grab" and won't give the Redskins any discounts. For various reasons he doesn't feel appreciated, and thinks he was always better than RG3 and never should have sat behind him.[/quote]

I don't expect discounts and any player is going to go for the money. Still, I feel Cousins lost a lot of bargaining chips by laying a turd in the biggest game of the year. IMO, he deserves Andy Dalton money. I hope the doesn't expect Russell Wilson money.

I just hopes he goes into this negotiation with a sense of a reality.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1161349][quote=htownskinfan;1161298]

Do you mean the Dallas game where he couldn't get the ball to the wr's downfield? Did you also forget about the other games he played in that year? Then he got hurt. Bottom line is if McCoy was better than KC he'd be on the field. The coaches.. Gruden, McVay, Cavanaugh see them up close everyday. They know more than we do. If McCoy was a starting caliber QB another team would have signed him. He's a great backup QB, not a 16 game starter.

And what he did in college doesn't mean anything at this point.[/quote]

The same coaches who had Jones in at running back, or Burton at safety. Ok I hear you!

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[QUOTE=Michaelt31;1161376][quote=skinsfan69;1161349]



The same coaches who had Jones in at running back, or Burton at safety. Ok I hear you![/QUOTE]



Are you saying that they should have put Colt on the field this year?

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[quote=OmahaRedskins;1161273]I am still amazed at all of the HATE for KC. The best QB since Brad Johnson or Mark Rypien and half of the fan base wants to run him out of town.[/quote]

How many fans were applauding Brad Johnson getting run out of town?:mad:
And then still trash him when he helped lead Tampa Bay to their only Superbowl? :(

It's seems whenever The Skins have a good QB a lot fans don't see it.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[quote=Michaelt31;1161376]

The same coaches who had Jones in at running back, or Burton at safety. Ok I hear you![/quote]

Don't forget the same coaches who benched both of those players after they realized they had better options. Also I assume you are talking about David Bruton, not Burton.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[quote=Bishop Hammer;1161391]How many fans were applauding Brad Johnson getting run out of town?:mad:
And then still trash him when he helped lead Tampa Bay to their only Superbowl? :(

[B]It's seems whenever The Skins have a good QB a lot fans don't see it[/B].[/quote]

Truth. It's like we're so many years removed from McNabb/Beck/Grossman/bad Kirk/Colt that they have forgotten what truly terrible quarterbacking is.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[quote=punch it in;1161333]I do not think he is bitter about the RG-3 situation. Lets face it. Griff was the number two pick, and he was the roy. He has to understand that you do not just give up on that after year one?
I think Kirk certainly plays with a chip on his shoulder, but that is a good thing.[/quote]

I'm not saying he's bitter about the RG3 situation. However, once it was shown that Robert couldn't play so well, it was lil Danny that made Gruden start RG3 instead of having competition. (which is what Kirk wanted) Dan and Bruce have been very hesitant about Cousins, and he was nearly traded due to their hesitation. I think even SS has mention that Snyder wasn't a big fan of Cousins, which is probably why Cousins wants to stick it to him when it comes to this contract. Some guys want to play here, but it's obvious to Kirk that he doesn't give a shit, and has made it about the money and respect at this point. Danny and Bruce still aren't sold on him.

[url=http://www.csnmidatlantic.com/washington-redskins/ex-agent-redskins-still-doubt-kirk-cousins-which-will-affect-his-next-contract?utm_content=buffer51a8e&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer]Ex-agent: Redskins still doubt Kirk Cousins, which could affect his next deal | CSN Mid-Atlantic[/url]

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[quote=hutch17;1161345]I think they will use the non-exclusive or transition tag on him. That will cost less and is someone takes him we get two first round picks.[/quote]

I want to hear more about this option.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[quote=hutch17;1161345]I think they will use the non-exclusive or transition tag on him. That will cost less and is someone takes him we get two first round picks.[/quote]

No. They'll use the exclusive Franchise tag and nothing else. The reason being is another team could devise a contract with a poison pill that we wouldn't be able to match if we wanted to. While I'm reserved about handing Kirk a shit ton of cash, I think it would be even more foolish to let him walk for two first rounders. Very foolish. Do you know how bad this team would have been if not for the QB play?


[quote=FWD Skins;1161399]I want to hear more about this option.[/quote]


No you don't because it's not an option.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[quote=HTTR;1161367]We should be able to critique (positive and negative) a player's performance, demeanor, and leadership skills without being called haters. We all agree that KC turned out to be the true NFL starter as between him and RG3. (And don't think he didn't know it and developed a little chip on his shoulder -- that's the mark of a competitor.)

But here we are, facing another decision point, trying to understand what our FO thinks and plans to do. It's a great discussion. Personally, I'm in the try to sign him at 20m camp, understanding that it might take 22-23. Easy to say, but what if he demands 26? That's the crux of this argument.

That 20-22 range says that there are legitimate reservations about KC, and those of you who say "trust the front office" on a whole range of personnel matters should also trust them here. They have some concerns about signing him at 25-27, and so should we. That doesn't make them or us haters.

Here are my concerns. I have no idea whether this is what the FO is thinking.

His skills as a QB, which are top notch, are not matched by that intangible passion-driven thing that the elite QBs have. KIrk was having a much better year than Cam when we played the Panthers. But Cam, even dinged, willed himself to a great performance while Kirk was so-so. Cam is anything but a "consummate professional," but I want Kirk to have some of what Cam has.

If you listen to Kirk's interviews on Grant and Danny after games, he is oddly dispassionate. I have always liked this about him -- he keeps his cool, he doesn't whine about other players, doesn't get down on himself, etc. But when you think about this in terms of leadership disposition, my radar is catching a little static. I wouldn't care about this much for any position other than QB.

This doesn't mean he isn't a worthy franchise QB. But it should concern us that the most important guy on the team, the biggest cap hit on the team, however talented, may not have that "FU, I'm taking this game over" in his gut. Garçon showed this on Sunday. Kirk did not.

I'm not a Kirk hater. But I'm old enough to remember legions of less talented Skins who thrived in the spotlight. Kirk's stats show that he has the talent, no argument there. I don't know if he has the steel to be truly elite. I'm willing to pay to find out -- the viable options are bleak -- but let's admit the risks involved.[/quote]

This is a really terrific post.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[quote=HTTR;1161367]If you listen to Kirk's interviews on Grant and Danny after games, he is oddly dispassionate. I have always liked this about him -- he keeps his cool, he doesn't whine about other players, doesn't get down on himself, etc. But when you think about this in terms of leadership disposition, my radar is catching a little static. I wouldn't care about this much for any position other than QB.

This doesn't mean he isn't a worthy franchise QB. But it should concern us that the most important guy on the team, the biggest cap hit on the team, however talented, may not have that "FU, I'm taking this game over" in his gut. Garçon showed this on Sunday. Kirk did not. [/quote]


Agree with Schneed. Quality post you had good sir, and I especially appreciate this part because it's exactly how I feel. You don't see that passion in him like you do others. I hate to compare any QB to Brady, but the one thing I have always admired about Brady is his fire and passion for the game. I think it's a big reason guys love playing with him, and you note in the below video the guy runs across the field all the way to the endzone after Edleman runs a punt return back. I see this same kind of fire in Phillip Rivers as well and with Drew Brees. I just don't see it in Cousins.

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