Re: McNabb says black QBs criticized more
 

Donovan McNabb should be applauded for his courage to answer a question honestly posed to him by James Brown. As a fan of the Washington Redskins for over 30 years I applaud Joe Gibbs for recognizing the potential in Jason Campbell,but were it not for James Harris, Warren Moon, Doug Williams and Donovan McNabb, Jason Campbell or Vince Young could not stand up today in an interview and say they haven't experienced the same scrutiny that McNabb spoke of. What pisses me off with this so-called objective media is that they put a microphone in front of Jason Campbell a player who hasn't played an entire season and certainly has not felt the scorn of his fans yet. So it was a divide and conquer tactic to get one black person to refute another black persons experience because in the media's viewpoint, one monolithic view represents all black QB'S view ie..Jesse Jackson. Only Black people in general are given one spokesman to speak for them while other people speak for themselves. Some people will never understand the complexities of racism and white supremacy because it is subconcsciously taught to them in church, school , religion and even sports. Based on some of the comments I have read on this thread, there is enough ignorance to go around.

Re: And now I don't care about McNabb...
 

[QUOTE=saden1;355208]When you say white players are discriminated against that's exactly what you're saying. Not only that but you say that from HS all the way up there is systematic discrimination and that they simply don't get the chance they deserve. I'm not putting words in to your mouth here. It's plain, simple and quite clear. [/quote]

Yes you are...I never once said white people are being held down in the NFL. Please pay attention to what I am saying and not making your own conclusions.
They are discriminated in basketball ONLY. Why are you lumping NFL and NBA in the same breathe? (and it's all you...not me...re-read if you have to) I have been very specific in saying that there is no racism in the NFL, black or white. That's what this topic is all about.



[quote]Ranked #1 eh? Lets do the simple math and stats...50 states in the country...that's 50 #1 players in the country...there are roughly 300 schools in the country and you're telling me not a single one of them wanted him? Not even a Division III school?[/quote]

Well, no one came to him. The ones he went to (this is from who I recall, but I know there were more) Florida, Florida State, Miami U, SFU, Georgia U, Arkansas U, Cal, UCLA, NC State, and UMASS. All turned him down. All for players that were inferior (at least by rankings). It was wrong. This happens more than you think, but since it's not PC to talk about white people being discriminated against, no one hears about it. It doesn't make it any more wrong. Ken was 6'7" and had mad ball handling skills. No one could keep up with him. He was a track star too...and still no scholarship.
So, even by what you said, 50 states, so that means he's a top 50 player across the country, and how come no one offered a scholarship? Not a single team!!!!????

[quote]I'm curious as to who you think is keeping the white man down from making it big in bball? Maybe those with authority are flawed in their assessment of how good black, european and south american bball players are? You obviously have beef with the fact that NBA doesn't have enough white players so let's hear why that is and what you propose to alleviate the plight of white bball players.[/quote]

I don't know how to answer that. It's a stigma put on white players so they are not given the chance.
I tell you this, I guarentee if black people wanted to play hockey, and were kept out, they would make a huge fuss until someone made a law / rule that allowed a certain amount in. Why do the white people in this case not get that kind of respect?

[quote]p.s. It's really hard for me to take you seriously when I consider the fact that the majority of high school, collegiate and professional coaches are white.[/QUOTE]

Because the majority are white, you are saying there isn't a stigma against the white player? WOW. So by your thoughts, every black coach should have a black qb. But I guess, since none of them do, then I can make the leap that they think black qb's aren't as good as white qb's? That's absurd.
Come on guys...it's obvious there is a thought out there that white people can't play as good as black people in basketball. This is nothing new.

Re: McNabb says black QBs criticized more
 

[QUOTE=SUNRA;355215]Donovan McNabb should be applauded for his courage to answer a question honestly posed to him by James Brown. As a fan of the Washington Redskins for over 30 years I applaud Joe Gibbs for recognizing the potential in Jason Campbell,but were it not for James Harris, Warren Moon, Doug Williams and Donovan McNabb, Jason Campbell or Vince Young could not stand up today in an interview and say they haven't experienced the same scrutiny that McNabb spoke of. What pisses me off with this so-called objective media is that they put a microphone in front of Jason Campbell a player who hasn't played an entire season and certainly has not felt the scorn of his fans yet. So it was a divide and conquer tactic to get one black person to refute another black persons experience because in the media's viewpoint, one monolithic view represents all black QB'S view ie..Jesse Jackson. Only Black people in general are given one spokesman to speak for them while other people speak for themselves. [b]Some people will never understand the complexities of racism and white supremacy because it is subconcsciously taught to them in church, school , religion and even sports. Based on some of the comments I have read on this thread, there is enough ignorance to go around.[/b][/QUOTE]

Come on dude, there is just as much racism in the black community as there is in the white, if not more. And it's taught to black people every day just as you pointed out. Let's not make this another "it's the white person's fault". Don't think I am accurrate? If you are black, ask yourself how many white players jersey's you have, and how many black players jersey's you have. I have 4 white players, and 18 black players. How many times do you see a black person with a white players jersey on their back? Sure it happens, but not very often. Why is it most white people can see a player as a player regardless of color, but a lot of black people have to make the separation of race? Why not just see it as the human race (as corny as that sounds). When I saw Pedro Martinez on the mound, I didn't see a guy from the dominican republic, I saw a member of the Red Sox going after a world series ring. When I see Jason Campbell lead us to victory, I don't see a black QB, I see a redskins QB who is trying to win us a game.

I understand the world is not ready to hear about the fact that racism is more alive in the minds of a lot of black people...and for the record, I know a lot of black people here that are classy and wonderful, and have not seen racism in them...I am speaking in generics, and this topic gets very dicey. My intent is not to offend...and I will likely refrain from further topic on this because this could get very ugly and I don't want that. I enjoy most of the people on this site, and enjoy the views, and I wish to keep it that way.

Re: And now I don't care about McNabb...
 

[quote=jsarno;355216]Yes you are...I never once said white people are being held down in the NFL. Please pay attention to what I am saying and not making your own conclusions.
They are discriminated in basketball ONLY. Why are you lumping NFL and NBA in the same breathe? (and it's all you...not me...re-read if you have to) I have been very specific in saying that there is no racism in the NFL, black or white. That's what this topic is all about.





Well, no one came to him. The ones he went to (this is from who I recall, but I know there were more) Florida, Florida State, Miami U, SFU, Georgia U, Arkansas U, Cal, UCLA, NC State, and UMASS. All turned him down. All for players that were inferior (at least by rankings). It was wrong. This happens more than you think, but since it's not PC to talk about white people being discriminated against, no one hears about it. It doesn't make it any more wrong. Ken was 6'7" and had mad ball handling skills. No one could keep up with him. He was a track star too...and still no scholarship.
So, even by what you said, 50 states, so that means he's a top 50 player across the country, and how come no one offered a scholarship? Not a single team!!!!????



I don't know how to answer that. It's a stigma put on white players so they are not given the chance.
I tell you this, I guarentee if black people wanted to play hockey, and were kept out, they would make a huge fuss until someone made a law / rule that allowed a certain amount in. Why do the white people in this case not get that kind of respect?



Because the majority are white, you are saying there isn't a stigma against the white player? WOW. So by your thoughts, every black coach should have a black qb. But I guess, since none of them do, then I can make the leap that they think black qb's aren't as good as white qb's? That's absurd.
[B] Come on guys...it's obvious there is a thought out there that white people can't play as good as black people in basketball. This is nothing new.[/B][/quote]

Eh I dunno if thats necessarily true. Granted, Black people do tend to be better in basketball but come on, wasn't the Dream Team getting spanked a few years ago by all these international teams. Made up of people who WEREN'T Black?

I believe if a White guy lives and breathes basketball, he's just as good or better than any Black player. I'm not even White and I think you guys aren't giving White guys enough credit. Granted, there are no White Jordan's but come on. Its not like every White dude out there stinks.

As for Ken, I mean those are the breaks. Sometimes a guy can go to a smaller school and not an NCAA school and still get drafted (Look at Sellers, eh?) Just cause Black guys get in and he doesn't, doesn't mean it's time to pull out the race card. Lots of good people get skipped over for other prospects. That's life.

Come on now, its 2007 I thought we were past all this petty race card shit.

Re: And now I don't care about McNabb...
 

[QUOTE=DynamiteRave;355218]Eh I dunno if thats necessarily true. Granted, Black people do tend to be better in basketball but come on, wasn't the Dream Team getting spanked a few years ago by all these international teams. Made up of people who WEREN'T Black?[quote]

Very good point...A LOT were white, yet none of them were signed on to NBA teams.

[quote]I believe if a White guy lives and breathes basketball, he's just as good or better than any Black player. I'm not even White and I think you guys aren't giving White guys enough credit. Granted, there are no White Jordan's but come on. Its not like every White dude out there stinks.[/quote]

LOL...I don't think there will ever be another Jordan...that guy was flat out amazing. That being said, I thank you for your honest opinion, and appreciate your view.

[quote]As for Ken, I mean those are the breaks. Sometimes a guy can go to a smaller school and not an NCAA school and still get drafted (Look at Sellers, eh?) Just cause Black guys get in and he doesn't, doesn't mean it's time to pull out the race card. Lots of good people get skipped over for other prospects. That's life.[/quote]

Well, he ended up going to Edison College and only played on the playground from there on out. It was quite a shame. If it happened to him, how many others did it happen to?

[quote]Come on now, its 2007 I thought we were past all this petty race card shit.[/QUOTE]

I absolutely agree...again, thank you for your comments, it was a good post.

Re: McNabb says black QBs criticized more
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;355217]Come on dude, [B]there is just as much racism in the black community as there is in the white, if not more. And it's taught to black people every day[/B] just as you pointed out. Let's not make this another "it's the white person's fault". Don't think I am accurrate? If you are black, ask yourself how many white players jersey's you have, and how many black players jersey's you have. I have 4 white players, and 18 black players. How many times do you see a black person with a white players jersey on their back? Sure it happens, but not very often. [B]Why is it most white people can see a player as a player regardless of color, but a lot of black people have to make the separation of race?[/B] Why not just see it as the human race (as corny as that sounds). When I saw Pedro Martinez on the mound, I didn't see a guy from the dominican republic, I saw a member of the Red Sox going after a world series ring. When I see Jason Campbell lead us to victory, I don't see a black QB, I see a redskins QB who is trying to win us a game.

[B]I understand the world is not ready to hear about the fact that racism is more alive in the minds of a lot of black people[/B]...and for the record, I know a lot of black people here that are classy and wonderful, and have not seen racism in them...I am speaking in generics, and this topic gets very dicey. My intent is not to offend...and I will likely refrain from further topic on this because this could get very ugly and I don't want that. I enjoy most of the people on this site, and enjoy the views, and I wish to keep it that way.[/QUOTE]

The irony in the above passage (i.e., black people are more racist than white people) is quite amazing.

And, I still do not understand how you applaud people for saying "why can't we quit this race card sh*t" when it comes to black QBs, but then pull a race card when it comes to whites in the NBA. Even though you chastise blacks for supposedly seeing color in NFL players, you obviously see color in NBA players.

Re: McNabb says black QBs criticized more
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;355221]The irony in the above passage (i.e., black people are more racist than white people) is quite amazing.[/quote]

Funny how that is how you saw that instead of seeing that racism is not just in the hearts of white people. You seem to be completely missing many points, and that is unlike what I have encountered with you in previous threads. I can only assume it's due to the fact that this is a sensitive subject for you.

[quote]And, I still do not understand how you applaud people for saying "why can't we quit this race card sh*t" when it comes to black QBs, but then pull a race card when it comes to whites in the NBA. Even though you chastise blacks for supposedly seeing color in NFL players, you obviously see color in NBA players.[/QUOTE]

This whole NBA thing started from the McNabb thing. The whole point was, how can you see racism in the QB front, but not in the NBA?
Fact is, after this conversation, I will go back to fogetting about it, cause I'm not a big fan of basketball. But if you are trying to make an assertion of racism where there is not, why not look where it actually is?
Sometimes you need to follow along with the conversation, not jump around.

Re: McNabb says black QBs criticized more
 

Honestly Donovan is dumb for bringing this up. If anything he might have just sparked a more racial look at quarterbacks. I mean of course it had occurred to me that Jason Campbell was black but I never looked at it that way. And lets not forget and I think the one good thing Charles Barkley did in the booth Monday night was saying how the fans in Philly are tough. They don't really care if you get them to the NFC Championship 3 years in a row they want a Super Bowl. Alas, racism is going to continue to live on as long as people like Donovan McNabb and Jessie Jackson keep doing what they are doing.

Re: McNabb says black QBs criticized more
 

[QUOTE=Cowell;355231]Honestly Donovan is dumb for bringing this up. If anything he might have just sparked a more racial look at quarterbacks. I mean of course it had occurred to me that Jason Campbell was black but I never looked at it that way. And lets not forget and I think the one good thing Charles Barkley did in the booth Monday night was saying how the fans in Philly are tough. They don't really care if you get them to the NFC Championship 3 years in a row they want a Super Bowl. Alas, racism is going to continue to live on as long as people like Donovan McNabb and Jessie Jackson keep doing what they are doing.[/QUOTE]

Very good points.

Re: McNabb says black QBs criticized more
 

[QUOTE=Cowell;355231]Alas, racism is going to continue to live on as long as people like Donovan McNabb and Jessie Jackson keep doing what they are doing.[/QUOTE]

Or as long as white people think that blacks are handed things on a silver platter and, if only they could click their heels and be black, everything would magically be better. There are a lot of racist black people who hate whites and blame their failures on whites, but there are a lot of white people who hate blacks and/or blame their own inadequacies and failings on reverse racism.

I'm done with this one. I don't see it going anywhere. Good luck and be nice to one another.

Re: And now I don't care about McNabb...
 

[quote=jsarno;355216]Yes you are...I never once said white people are being held down in the NFL. Please pay attention to what I am saying and not making your own conclusions.
They are discriminated in basketball ONLY. Why are you lumping NFL and NBA in the same breathe? (and it's all you...not me...re-read if you have to) I have been very specific in saying that there is no racism in the NFL, black or white. That's what this topic is all about.[/quote]

So if we go by your logic one can presume, based on statistics, there is racism in hockey because not too many black people play it? How come you can make that leap about bball and I can't about hockey?

Lets turn our attention to baseball, there used to be lots of black players in the MLB but their numbers have been dwindling in the last few decades...why is that? It's discrimination that's why! MLB now prefers Latino players, especially those Cubans.

[quote=jsarno;355216]Well, no one came to him. The ones he went to (this is from who I recall, but I know there were more) Florida, Florida State, Miami U, SFU, Georgia U, Arkansas U, Cal, UCLA, NC State, and UMASS. All turned him down. All for players that were inferior (at least by rankings). It was wrong. This happens more than you think, but since it's not PC to talk about white people being discriminated against, no one hears about it. It doesn't make it any more wrong. Ken was 6'7" and had mad ball handling skills. No one could keep up with him. He was a track star too...and still no scholarship.
So, even by what you said, 50 states, so that means he's a top 50 player across the country, and how come no one offered a scholarship? Not a single team!!!!???? [/quote]

Does that mean he was discriminated against? That's life man, it's a bitch! Sometimes the deserving don't get an opportunity. That goes both ways too. You obviously feel that this guy was given the shaft but then again you think state ranking alone should be good enough to give him a roster spot. I can play the same card too...Stanford U and UVA wouldn't accept me even though I had very good grades and I was sure I had good enough marks to get in. I can only guess they met their black quota...lol.

[quote=jsarno;355216]I don't know how to answer that. It's a [B]stigma[/B] put on white players so they are not given the chance.
I tell you this, I guarentee if black people wanted to play hockey, and were kept out, they would make a huge fuss until someone made a law / rule that allowed a certain amount in. Why do the white people in this case not get that kind of respect? [/quote]

I do believe you've just validated what McNabb was saying. If there's stigma against white bball players why can't there be stigma against black QBs in this day and age?

BTW black people don't play hockey (or most of the sports you don't see them play for that matter) is because a) the cost of entry is high and b) they'd rather play bball or football. Finally, speaking for myself and people I know, we think hockey sucks donkey-d*ck. Hockey is figure skating with sticks and one of the most boring sport ever. If you take a poll among black people nation wide I'm confidant they'll tell you the same thing.

[quote=jsarno;355216] Because the majority are white, you are saying there isn't a stigma against the white player? WOW. So by your thoughts, every black coach should have a black qb. But I guess, since none of them do, then I can make the leap that they think black qb's aren't as good as white qb's? That's absurd.
Come on guys...it's obvious there is a thought out there that white people can't play as good as black people in basketball. This is nothing new.[/quote]

Don't turn this around on me, I'm not the one trashing coaches around the country by labeling them racist because they aren't willing to coach and play quality white players.

The world isn't black or white my friend, it's shades of gray.

p.s. I wonder what your take on J.J. Riddick saga is.

Re: McNabb says black QBs criticized more
 

[quote=jsarno;355230]This whole NBA thing started from the McNabb thing. The whole point was, how can you see racism in the QB front, but not in the NBA?
Fact is, after this conversation, I will go back to fogetting about it, cause I'm not a big fan of basketball. [B]But if you are trying to make an assertion of racism where there is not, why not look where it actually is[/B]?
Sometimes you need to follow along with the conversation, not jump around.[/quote]

My man, do you know that you sound like Jessie Jackson?

Re: McNabb says black QBs criticized more
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;355217]Come on dude, there is just as much racism in the black community as there is in the white, if not more. And it's taught to black people every day just as you pointed out. Let's not make this another "it's the white person's fault". Don't think I am accurrate? If you are black, ask yourself how many white players jersey's you have, and how many black players jersey's you have. I have 4 white players, and 18 black players. How many times do you see a black person with a white players jersey on their back? Sure it happens, but not very often. Why is it most white people can see a player as a player regardless of color, but a lot of black people have to make the separation of race? Why not just see it as the human race (as corny as that sounds). When I saw Pedro Martinez on the mound, I didn't see a guy from the dominican republic, I saw a member of the Red Sox going after a world series ring. When I see Jason Campbell lead us to victory, I don't see a black QB, I see a redskins QB who is trying to win us a game.

I understand the world is not ready to hear about the fact that racism is more alive in the minds of a lot of black people...and for the record, I know a lot of black people here that are classy and wonderful, and have not seen racism in them...I am speaking in generics, and this topic gets very dicey. My intent is not to offend...and I will likely refrain from further topic on this because this could get very ugly and I don't want that. I enjoy most of the people on this site, and enjoy the views, and I wish to keep it that way.[/QUOTE]

First and foremost I respect your view and your sincerity with not wanting to offend anyone. I would like to respond to your comments about what I said. When you spoke of racism among Black people it should be understood that racism is predjudice +power. The ability to include and exclude. Black people do not have the power to affect other Black or White people's ability to buy a house, car or obtain a business loan.

As far as what jersey people wear is based on their on own individual taste or the player they most admire. As for me, my favorite player hands down is John Riggins. I grew up in D.C. which was 95% black at that time and I recognized the genius of a white RB just like thousands of other black children did. You know black people do not have to be taught to love white athletes or white people in general, because everything around us told us to respect and value everyones culture except our own. There are some Black QB's I like and some I don't particularly care for. But overall, its about celebrating the diverse experiences we have and respecting each other even if we don't understand all of the complexities they present.

Re: McNabb says black QBs criticized more
 

[QUOTE=SUNRA;355250]First and foremost I respect your view and your sincerity with not wanting to offend anyone. I would like to respond to your comments about what I said. When you spoke of racism among Black people it should be understood that racism is predjudice +power. The ability to include and exclude. Black people do not have the power to affect other Black or White people's ability to buy a house, car or obtain a business loan.

As far as what jersey people wear is based on their on own individual taste or the player they most admire. As for me, my favorite player hands down is John Riggins. I grew up in D.C. which was 95% black at that time and I recognized the genius of a white RB just like thousands of other black children did. You know black people do not have to be taught to love white athletes or white people in general, because everything around us told us to respect and value everyones culture except our own. There are some Black QB's I like and some I don't particularly care for. But overall, its about celebrating the diverse experiences we have and respecting each other even if we don't understand all of the complexities they present.[/QUOTE]

Very good post, and thank you for your civility. You make very good points.

Re: McNabb says black QBs criticized more
 

This thread has taken an awful turn, for all those I offended, I sincerely apologize, and I bow out.