Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=sandtrapjack;781038]Thanks for the links, makes for entertaining reading. Like Jurassic Park, interesting concept, but after that......meh.

The drafting of Steven McGee a few years ago is the key though. Every team would love to have the luxury of having an Aaron Rodgers. In other words, a first round draft pick QB that you can afford to have wait and train in the wings for 3 years because you have a future hall of famer in place.

Thats just not the case though. For the most part, first rounders are expected to start these days and that luxury just is not there.

So Dallas drafted Steven McGee a few years ago, let him sit back on the depth chart, learn and develop. And if he develops correctly, at the end of Romo's contract maybe he gets the nod. He's looked good so far, but if it does not work out, there are still options open.

Romo himself sat behind Testeverde and Bledsoe for 3 years before he got his first start.[/quote]

Both Bledsoe and Vinny were coming to the end of their careers. Romo has a lot of years left. McGee isn't going to start over Tony Romo. Ever.

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=skinsfan69;783897]I really don't care about Pro Days. JaMarcus Russell had a great pro day. The kid didn't play in a pro offense and from what I saw, really isn't a pocket guy. I really hope we don't draft this kid at #10. Him or Locker does nothing for me.[/quote]

I still say he's a faster version of Big Ben. If he can pass while utilizing his mobility he'll be unstoppable especially in todays NFL where pass rushers and blitz packages are frequently becoming more and more difficult to stop with blocking alone.

The main key though above all else is his ability to accept tough by the book coaching, the type he'll most certainly get from the Shanahans. Apparently lack of commitment to fundamentals and learning the system is what got McNabb in trouble so if Newton is going to make that same mistake we'll just be wasting our time. However I have heard on multiple occasions that he does study hard and takes very well to coaching.

Definitely agree though about assessment of the pro day/workout. It only means so much especially when compared to game film, doctor evaluations, and in depth interviews.

[quote=skinsfan69;783898]Both Bledsoe and Vinny were coming to the end of their careers. Romo has a lot of years left. McGee isn't going to start over Tony Romo. Ever.[/quote]

The odds of replacing a rag to riches UDFA like Romo with a late round "developmental prospect" like McGee is astounding. It's already risky enough to take developmental QB's in the first round. I'd say you'd have better luck betting all your money on 31 black in a game of roulette. Just say no to late round "developmental prospects." 99 times out of 100 they're a waste of time.

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

On xx1090sandiego.com there's video of Cam's workout today

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

Heard Dilfer gushing about this guy today. At least athletically speaking, he hasn't seen anyone like him before.

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=Mattyk;783909]Heard Dilfer gushing about this guy today. At least athletically speaking, he hasn't seen anyone like him before.[/quote]

Yeah! I was also listening to Dilfer and wondering if he realizes how much work Newton has ahead of him in order to become an accomplished NFL QB.

He's considered a tremendous athlete, the combine will be an opportunity for him to prove he can make all the throws an NFL QB has to be able to make. He'll need to prove that he can because he's never had to do it. The offense he ran at Auburn was basically one read and run, he'll need to show more.

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;783900]I still say he's a faster version of Big Ben. If he can pass while utilizing his mobility he'll be unstoppable especially in todays NFL where pass rushers and blitz packages are frequently becoming more and more difficult to stop.

The main key though above all else is his ability to accept tough by the book coaching, the type he'll most certainly get from the Shanahans. Apparently lack of commitment to fundamentals and learning the system is what got McNabb in trouble so if Newton is going to make that same mistake we'll just be wasting our time. However I have heard on multiple occasions that he does study hard and takes very well to coaching.

Definitely agree though about assessment of the pro day/workout. It only means so much especially when compared to game film, doctor evaluations, and in depth interviews.



The odds of replacing a rag to riches UDFA like Romo with a late round "developmental prospect" like McGee is astounding. It's already risky enough to take developmental QB's in the first round. I'd say you'd have better luck betting all your money on 31 black in a game of roulette. Just say no to late round "developmental prospects." 99 times out of 100 they're a waste of time.[/quote]

They said the same thing about Vince Young. Bottom line is to be an effective, productive NFL starter you make it or you don't by pocket passing. Ben makes enough plays in the pocket to be an effective starter. From what I saw from Newton, he runs a gimmick high school/college offense where he's in shotgun 99.9% of the time.

This whole QB thing really makes 0 sense to me. I hate to bring this up but my god, we could've just kept JC, kept the freakin draft picks and built the team up around the guy. Now we messed up on McNabb, and now we're going back in the draft to get a project who had one good year in a gimmick offense. Like I said, just throw the 11 season and hopefully get more of a sure thing with Andrew Luck.

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=skinsfan69;783913]They said the same thing about Vince Young. Bottom line is to be an effective, productive NFL starter you make it or you don't by pocket passing. Ben makes enough plays in the pocket to be an effective starter. From what I saw from Newton, he runs a gimmick high school/college offense where he's in shotgun 99.9% of the time.

This whole QB thing really makes 0 sense to me. I hate to bring this up but my god, we could've just kept JC, kept the freakin draft picks and built the team up around the guy. Now we messed up on McNabb, and now we're going back in the draft to get a project who had one good year in a gimmick offense. Like I said, just throw the 11 season and hopefully get more of a sure thing with Andrew Luck.[/quote]

The thing is that Ben also came from a program that ran a gimicky offense. And not only that but he came from a conference that wasn't exactly known for great defense (in spite of its ability to produce quality NFL QB's).

[url=http://www.nationalchamps.net/2003/sub/teams/miamiOH.htm]Miami OH 2003 Football Preview[/url]
[quote]Offensive Coordiantor (and former NC State QB) Shane Montgomery's spread offense is the perfect vehicle for Roethlisberger's versatility. Designed rollouts, screens, and shovel passes keep defenses on their toes and open up the verticle passing game, where Roethlisberger's cannon arm becomes supremely dangerous.[/quote]

I never really understood the comparisons to Vince Young to be honest. While both are scrambling QB's Young has a much more slight build when compared to Newton. On top of that Newtons arm strength has been deemed elite. Young was said to have a strong arm coming out of college but it was more of a "he should be able to make all the throws at the next level." Newtons arm is more along the lines of "he'll easily be able to make all the throws at the next level." And probably the most important difference is that Newton has a much better reputation when it comes to preparation.

Not to mention the fact that Newton was able to perform with a level of off field distractions that have frequently been able to knock Young off balance. Sure Young was clutch against USC in the national championship but he wasn't dealing with impending suspensions and people taking every chance they could to let him know he was a cheater and a thief.

At the very least Newton is Tebow with a better delivery while lacking the extreme intangibles that very few football players can come close to. However in having watched enough Steeler and Auburn games, as well as Texas games back in 2005, I sincerely believe that Big Ben with better mobility is a much better parallel to Newton than Young is.

Personally my biggest concern with Newton is if transitioning from the spread to the pro style offense will lead to complaints from his agent about how the offense needs to "allow him to improvise." I mean it's not like the Shanahan offense needs a precise "by the book" QB to run it like a Peyton Manning. For goodness sake Shanahan has gotten this offense to work with gunslingers like Elway, Plummer, and Cutler. Which actually makes me wonder more about how McNabb wasn't able to even post an 80+ rating in this offense. But I digress so long as Newton is able to accept coaching it should be a good fit. Otherwise it'll be McNabb 2.0.

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[url=http://realredskins.com/2011/01/casserly-on-newton/]Casserly on Cam Newton | Rich Tandler's Real Redskins[/url]

[url=http://blacksportsonline.com/home/2011/01/mock-draft-hq-cam-newtons-chances-of-making-it-in-the-nfl/]Mock Draft HQ: Cam Newton’s Chances of Making it in the NFL? | Robert Littal Presents BlackSportsOnline[/url]

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

We really need to draft an "elite" NFL QB.

I sure as heck hope that an "elite" QB is there when we pick at #10.

Out of the top six QB prospects there is maybe a 50/50 chance that one of them will be elite at the next level.

We need that guy. Nothing else matters.

Our odds suck, but we need to hit our card on the river. We need a legit QB.

Draft a QB with the first and second round pick for all I care.

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

I trust Cam Newton as a pocket passer. I think, given lofty draft status, he's bound to develop his skills from the pocket. I'm just not sure he'll ever be good enough on the move to justify a first round pick. We all know he can run in the open field, but when he's 28 and needing to slide to protect himself, will he be anything but a turnover waiting to happen once flushed? I'm not convinced.

Newton isn't Tebow. He may look prettier than Tebow from a passing standpoint, but he's not nearly as accomplished coming out. It would not be hard to justify a first round pick on Cam Newton, because if you have a guy who can set up in the pocket, deliver the football, take a hit, you'll always have a chance to get the quarterback. But I haven't heard one guy who EXPECTS Cam Newton to be a top ten quarterback in the NFL. And that's the thing to keep in mind here: whether you like Newton or not, people have tempered expectations for players like him.

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=wilsowilso;783921]We really need to draft an "elite" NFL QB.

I sure as heck hope that an "elite" QB is there when we pick at #10.

Out of the top six QB prospects there is maybe a 50/50 chance that one of them will be elite at the next level.

We need that guy. Nothing else matters.

Our odds suck, but we need to hit our card on the river. We need a legit QB.

Draft a QB with the first and second round pick for all I care.[/quote]


Unfortunately there isn't one in this draft. (gabbert being closest) Any hope of that ended the day luck decided to stay in college.

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=NC_Skins;784022]Unfortunately there isn't one in this draft. (gabbert being closest) [B]Any hope of that ended the day luck decided to stay in college.[/B][/quote]

We would not have gotten Luck, anyway. Carolina would have been on him like a cheap suit.

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=Lotus;784023]We would not have gotten Luck, anyway. Carolina would have been on him like a cheap suit.[/quote]

I know and I certainly as hell don't blame them either....lol

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=wilsowilso;783921]We really need to draft an "elite" NFL QB.

I sure as heck hope that an "elite" QB is there when we pick at #10.

Out of the top six QB prospects there is maybe a 50/50 chance that one of them will be elite at the next level.

We need that guy. Nothing else matters.

Our odds suck, but we need to hit our card on the river. We need a legit QB.

Draft a QB with the first and second round pick for all I care.[/quote]If you're just looking for best QB prospect available at no. 10, scheme be damned, Ponder is probably the best bet. But no one is taking Ponder that high because he has questions about his physical tools and durability, and no one wants to consider a "damaged goods" quarterback that high.

But if you're looking just at an elite guy with the entire package, and deeming everything else (average starter, for example) to be a failure, Ponder makes sense at no. 10. If he stays really healthy, he could develop into a top ten NFL QB.

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;783918]The thing is that Ben also came from a program that ran a gimicky offense. And not only that but he came from a conference that wasn't exactly known for great defense (in spite of its ability to produce quality NFL QB's).

[URL="http://www.nationalchamps.net/2003/sub/teams/miamiOH.htm"]Miami OH 2003 Football Preview[/URL]


I never really understood the comparisons to Vince Young to be honest. While both are scrambling QB's Young has a much more slight build when compared to Newton. On top of that Newtons arm strength has been deemed elite. Young was said to have a strong arm coming out of college but it was more of a "he should be able to make all the throws at the next level." Newtons arm is more along the lines of "he'll easily be able to make all the throws at the next level." And probably the most important difference is that Newton has a much better reputation when it comes to preparation.

Not to mention the fact that Newton was able to perform with a level of off field distractions that have frequently been able to knock Young off balance. Sure Young was clutch against USC in the national championship but he wasn't dealing with impending suspensions and people taking every chance they could to let him know he was a cheater and a thief.

At the very least Newton is Tebow with a better delivery while lacking the extreme intangibles that very few football players can come close to. However in having watched enough Steeler and Auburn games, as well as Texas games back in 2005, I sincerely believe that Big Ben with better mobility is a much better parallel to Newton than Young is.

Personally my biggest concern with Newton is if transitioning from the spread to the pro style offense will lead to complaints from his agent about how the offense needs to "allow him to improvise." I mean it's not like the Shanahan offense needs a precise "by the book" QB to run it like a Peyton Manning. For goodness sake Shanahan has gotten this offense to work with gunslingers like Elway, Plummer, and Cutler. Which actually makes me wonder more about how McNabb wasn't able to even post an 80+ rating in this offense. But I digress so long as Newton is able to accept coaching it should be a good fit. Otherwise it'll be McNabb 2.0.[/quote]

Gotta disagree. I didn't see a lot of Ben's games a Miami of OH. but I did watch a few. It was not a gimmick offense like Newton was in. He was throwing for big yardage if I remember correctly. But whatever.... It just seems like Newton is too much of a risk to take at #10. 3rd or 4th round, fine.