Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

Actually, I would call the Dallas game last year gutsy. But this year... not so much.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[QUOTE=Buster;217064]The last time we were 0-2 under Gibbs, it was 1989. We finished with 10 wins. This year, 10 wins will get us in the postseason.
[/QUOTE]

I admire your optimism. But the '89 team didn't make the postseason. That's about as far as the similarities with the '06 team will go.

Oh, and don't confuse that with "panic" or "jumping off the bandwagon". Not everyone lives in La-La Land with our rose-colored glasses in full gear. It's simply calling it like we see it.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

Even when the blitz was getting picked up Brunell was falling out of throws and skipping the ball at receivers feet. At this point, we need to see someone else in there. A player who has the balls to stand in, take the hit and deliver the football. Mark Brunell plays the game scared. He never throws deep and the one time he chose to "gamble" last night was probably one of the worst NFL passes I've ever seen. Mark Brunell looked like a high school quarterback that wandered into an NFL locker room. It was atrocious. He had something like a 26.2 rating before the last drive when he actually completed some passes against the prevent defense. His 67.7 rating after 2 weeks has him at 26th in the NFL.

Jason Campbell may not end up being a franchise quarterback, but there's only one way to find out. If this team is going to lose games early, why not lose them with a player that has a future in this league? Why get the offense in sync with Brunell by week 8 when this should be his last season? Even if he does come back next season, there is no chance he deserves the starting job. He doesn't deserve to start against the Texans and the way he played last night, I don't think he belongs in this league anymore.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

Yup, it's like everyone is so afraid to put in JC. Is it any coicidence that he has the initials of ANOTHER type of Savior? I think not. ;)

Seriously though, the only way he'll learn is by getting game experience.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[QUOTE=Mc2guy;217151]This has been touched on but not highlighted when arguing for Campbell to start, but I'll make clear my layman thinking.

Raise your hand if you think Brunell is the QB of the future in Wash...:eek:

Of course he's not, and we know that Campbell is our future. New QB's invariably have to work through growing pains and must work their way up the learning curve of the NFL. By all accounts, Brunell is still in the early phases of his learning the Saunders system. Why would we want to suffer though another 10 games of Brunell learning the system just to have Campbell start next year and go through the same 10 game learning curve. Why not kill two birds with one stone, and put the kid in now.

Will he make mistakes, yes for sure. Will he cost us winnable games, maybe a couple. Does all that matter when the current QB can't complete a 10 yard out pattern or get the ball downfield at all? Not to me. As a paying fan, I would rather sit through a 7-9 or 6-10 season with JC at the helm learning how to be a pro and learning the Saunders system so he can come back strong in '07. This applies double when the alternative is to watch Brunell struggle to 8-8 only to get cut or retire at the end of the season.

We are in year 3 of the Brunell experiment and we are about where we started. Enough is enough. I no longer care if Brunell is the best option to "win now". I don't believe he's good enough to take us to the Championship so who cares if he's marginally better than a virgin QB.[/QUOTE]
I agree completely. I felt like so conflicted last night because I was hoping for Brunell to get benched or worse. Chris Cooley has not done anything yet and Santana didn't get the ball enough (every time he got it he did something). J Campbell can throw the ball 60 yards on a rope, if he still has the arm he had in college. He also runs a 4.6 or 4.7 40 so he could escape and scramble a lot. Brunell can't even get rid of the ball before he gets sacked. He missed so many passes and we need someone with a gun back there. It's JC time, this kid has so much talent, he looks like Randall Cunningham of old.... and hopefully there will be a change this week. I can't believe how bad we are right now, and I don't feel good about even the Texans game. I hope they make the switch soon since we're still in competition for the division, but not if Brunell is QB the rest of the year.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;217157]Yup, it's like everyone is so afraid to put in JC. Is it any coicidence that he has the initials of ANOTHER type of Savior? I think not. ;)

Seriously though, the only way he'll learn is by getting game experience.[/quote]
lol..basically he would probably give up 2-3 turnovers a game....and maybe 1 horrible like really bad game...but does anyone disagree when i say that with him at QB they would put up far more points??? take the bad with the good...he is our future...Brunell is finished!

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[quote=DaveyFoSho;217160]lol..basically he would probably give up 2-3 turnovers a game....and maybe 1 horrible like really bad game...but does anyone disagree when i say that with him at QB they would put up far more points??? take the bad with the good...he is our future...Brunell is finished![/quote]

Amen. We have to make the switch at some point. And at least with Campbell the games might be a little more entertaining. Brunell is as boring and bland as can be - and all he's "managing" are losses.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection;217157]Yup, it's like everyone is so afraid to put in JC. Is it any coicidence that he has the initials of ANOTHER type of Savior? I think not. ;)

Seriously though, the only way he'll learn is by getting game experience.[/QUOTE]

I mean we all like Joe Crisp, but Savior? That's a bit of a reach don't you think?

What do you think the over/under will be on how many "Campbell Sucks. What a waste of a pick" thread we'll see when Campbell has his first couple of bad games?

But like I said why not put him in, it'd be nice to see some Blame/Bench Campbell threads for a change

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[quote=jdlea;217156]Even when the blitz was getting picked up Brunell was falling out of throws and skipping the ball at receivers feet. At this point, we need to see someone else in there. A player who has the balls to stand in, take the hit and deliver the football. Mark Brunell plays the game scared. He never throws deep and the one time he chose to "gamble" last night was probably one of the worst NFL passes I've ever seen. Mark Brunell looked like a high school quarterback that wandered into an NFL locker room. It was atrocious. He had something like a 26.2 rating before the last drive when he actually completed some passes against the prevent defense. His 67.7 rating after 2 weeks has him at 26th in the NFL.

Jason Campbell may not end up being a franchise quarterback, but there's only one way to find out. If this team is going to lose games early, why not lose them with a player that has a future in this league? Why get the offense in sync with Brunell by week 8 when this should be his last season? Even if he does come back next season, there is no chance he deserves the starting job. He doesn't deserve to start against the Texans and the way he played last night, I don't think he belongs in this league anymore.[/quote]

Couldn't have said it better (I tried:) ). I have not called for Brunell's benching over the last 2+ years of blissfuly mediocre play. I have finally opened my eyes to what many have been saying for a while. I'm done defending him. No more excuses. In the NFL you are a winner or a loser and Mark Brunell is not a winner. End of story. He can retire in the knowledge that he had a decade plus as a starter in the league, and that he has a LOT of freakin' money, but that's it. Buy him a bus ticket...Jeff George his ass and cut him so no one is tempted to bring him back as a starter when JC struggles.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[quote=SanFranSkinsFan;217159] I can't believe how bad we are right now, and I don't feel good about even the Texans game. I hope they make the switch soon since we're still in competition for the division, but not if Brunell is QB the rest of the year.[/quote]

If Brunell loses or looks terrible in the Texans game, that may signal the change to JC.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

I'm telling you now, if we think we're going to March back down to Texas and use the Texans as our way to wiggle back into the season, we had better watch out.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[quote=12thMan;217169]I'm telling you now, if we think we're going to March back down to Texas and use the Texans as our way to wiggle back into the season, we had better watch out.[/quote]

Agreed. I don't think we've hit bottom yet.....get your trash cans and vomit buckets ready, its gonna be a bumpy ride.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[QUOTE=12thMan;217169]I'm telling you now, if we think we're going to March back down to Texas and use the Texans as our way to wiggle back into the season, we had better watch out.[/QUOTE]

No doubt. Right now, the Texans and their fans are thinking that the Redskins can offer them a chance at a turnaround.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

To be honest, I'm a little worried about Houston. I never would have said this before but the Texans can actually score points and we only have one touchdown in the season so far. I still think we shouldn't have any real difficulty winning, but still. It probably wont be a cakewalk and I wouldn't be surprised if it comes down to the wire. Don't expect a repeat of the 49ers game last year.

Hopefully I'm way off.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

I can't wait to pull this thread back up in 2 months when we're kicking butt every week WITH Brunell. :)

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

Don't hold your breath, Buster.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

If Brunell doesn't dominate the Texans next week, he sucks. He looks like he did in 2004. Brunell is afraid to stand in the pocket. There were plenty of times that he could have stayed in the pocket and not have gotten sacked, but he tried to roll out and he got sacked. He is afraid to do anything. How much worse could Campbell really do? He might have a bad game or two, but so will Brunell. At least Campbell can stand in the pocket and he is accurate.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

I don't feel like reading 296 messages on this, but let me just say for the record: Yes

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[quote=12thMan;217152]Gutzy performance? If it were a matter of gutz, shit, stick anyone of us in there. Guts 'aint cuttin it right now. Playing hard? Are you serious? No one's question his guts, but rather his ability. And no matter what camp you fall in, it's time for someone to give some answers.

I don't mean to come down on you or sound like a know it all, but this 'aint about being gutzy right now. It's a time for accountabilty - quickly.
Either Al Saunders is accountable, Joe Gibbs or Mark Brunell. You take your pick, but someone is going to step up to the plate quick.

Stick a fork in Brunell, my man. He's done.[/quote] It was a joke. Don't you remember back in 04 when he was playing like crap and Gibbs used those words to describe how he had played in a game we lost. Everyone was like what is he watching.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

Raise your hand if you believe Jason Campbell can throw for more than 45 yards in a game? There is a problem with Brunell and I'm done making excuses for him. He was a good QB and a terrific guy but he looks finished. As one of my friends pointed out: How many NFL championship trophies does he have? Answer: The same amount as Jason Campbell.
For all of those that say if we start JC then we are throwing away the season, I say a lot of Rams, Patriots and Steelers fans thought the same thing in recent times when their #1 guy went down. I'm not saying Campbell is going to be the next Brady or Big Ben (or even Warner, for that matter) but none of these guys had the full confidence of their coaching staff before their respective seasons started either.
If Brunell starts against the Texans, which I'm sure he will, I figure he'll win. Then we are looking at a 1-4 record because the Giants and Jaguars Defenses are no joke. I'd rather lose with the future QB than with someone can't get it done.

We simply need a stronger-armed QB with better mobility.

I love the Redskins and so do all of you!

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

I can't believe everyone is looking over the obvious solution. Put in Antwaan Randel-El at QB! I'm joking, but only sort of. I think ARE would be more composed and able to make quality throws than Brunell at this point.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[quote=bigmarley4;217221]I can't believe everyone is looking over the obvious solution. Put in Antwaan Randel-El at QB! I'm joking, but only sort of. I think ARE would be more composed and able to make quality throws than Brunell at this point.[/quote]

haha, I'll say this: ARE is not afraid of anyone! And most of all, he really, really [I]wants[/I] to make a big play. Everytime he gets the ball he starts spinning around like a ballerina. Very fun guy to watch.

Re: Time to bench Brunell?
 

[quote=Gibbs'IllegitChild;216503]did he REALLY get his shot...an as for "in new york"...why wasnt he used in the final plays of the game today?[/quote]

I agree he was never given a shot..... Boy I'd love to have him now...you bring up Ramsey as much as you want some of us don't mind hearing the truth!!!!

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

Brunell has been mediocre, at best, since he came here. Now, he's a LOT less than mediocre. It's way past time to bench him. It used to be that the best that could be said of him is "he doesn't lose games for us" (which, if that's ALL that can be said, is a sad indictment of any starting quarterback). But now, even that claim is unveiled for the falsehood that it is.

But, the bigger question is - Does Gibbs have the guts to do what most everyone knows needs to be done? Somehow I doubt it. Of course, Gibbs didn't hesitate to yank Ramsey for play that was nowhere near as bad as what Brunell is giving us.

My biggest fear is that Gibbs will stick with ole washed-up Brunell for at least another 3 games or so. By then, we'll either be 0-5 (because even the Texans game is no lock the way we are now playing) or 1-4. Either way, at that point, the bright and shining season we had all envisioned will be gone.

Re: Time to bench Brunell?
 

[quote=Dogtag;216665]The QB is a very small part of this problem. Folks - our O-line is not executing. Our D-line is not putting pressure on the opposing QB. And there is an unacceptable lack of discipline as evidenced by the number of penalties being thrown our way.

The QB is a lightening rod for criticism; however, right now he is not the underlying problem. In fact - without his field savy in getting rid of the ball without a lot of turnovers, the score would have been worse.

Excuses don't count ... play better!

Currently we are performing poorly.[/quote]

NO O-Line can protect for a QB taking a 7 step drop!!! And those are 7 Sloooooowww step to brother....

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[quote=LadyT;217233]
But, the bigger question is - Does Gibbs have the guts to do what most everyone knows needs to be done? Somehow I doubt it. Of course, Gibbs didn't hesitate to yank Ramsey for play that was nowhere near as bad as what Brunell is giving us.

My biggest fear is that Gibbs will stick with ole washed-up Brunell for at least another 3 games or so. By then, we'll either be 0-5 (because even the Texans game is no lock the way we are now playing) or 1-4. Either way, at that point, the bright and shining season we had all envisioned will be gone.[/quote]
People Don't wanna hear That but I COULD NOT agree more..... Does he have the guts ... well he sure had the guts with Ramsey but I have NO Idea what the problem is with pulling Brunell

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[quote=bigmarley4;217221]I can't believe everyone is looking over the obvious solution. Put in Antwaan Randel-El at QB! I'm joking, but only sort of. I think ARE would be more composed and able to make quality throws than Brunell at this point.[/quote]
It's a joke but hey ..Could Randel-EL possibly play worse or more whimpy than Brunell.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

I have to say that I am just as disappointed as everyone else with the play of our offense. Actually both offense and defense, although there aren't many defenses around that can constantly go out there 3 & out after 3 & out and expect to shut an offense down every time. The only thing we did good this week was special teams.

I just want to throw this out there, because it's something I've been thinking about. As much as I dislike "what if" scenario's. What if we didn't go on that tear at the end of last season and were out of the playoff picture with three or so games left. Gibbs would have probably put JC in there right? I almost wish that is what happened, although it was fun to get back to the playoffs again. I just can't help but think that if JC got about three regular season games in last year (and looked decent like he is expected to eventually) if he wouldn't be the guy in there right now. He could have began the season in a battle for the starting job instead of a battle for the number two, and may have won. Especially considering it would only be his second NFL offense to learn as opposed to Mark Brunell's 5th or whatever.

Just a hypothetical. I believe that we have to stick with Brunell now that we started with him, at least for a few more games to make sure it's not just him.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

sit him down

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

The reason you start someone else it cant get any worse. the offense has no threat of a down the field passing game because brunell has no arm strenght. That one reason we cant run is that the defense are stacking the line of scrimmage. they know that brunell will not stand and make the big throw if there pressure he will throw the ball out of bounds.Damn Joe gibbs ran ramsey out of town and he never played this bad like brunell has for most of his three long years here. he was great last season for about 7 games then he started to revert back to his 2004 form and that what if you honest is what we have seen this year.He make stupid rookie mistakes now with that lob pass that was intercepted when we were in field goal range. Like last year in tampa in the playoffs we had the lead late in the fourth quarter and he rolls to his left them throws the ball across his body and its intercepted instead of falling down and leting time roll off the clock.Listen i wish he played like a average qb but he cant do it anymore its time to stop covering his ass and call it like it is.He killing any chance we have. Damn i was afraid that he was going to break his record of 41 yards in tampa.he ended with about 170 but mostly that was crap yards after the game was over. Get rid of him please give a brother a chance.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

Brunell won't be sitting down anytime soon according to Joe Bugel who was just talking to George Michael on NBC.

Re: Bench Brunell
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;216383]I'm not even sure what good it would do at this point. The run AND pass blocking both stink right now. The offense has issues across the board.[/QUOTE]

Right on.

The defense doesn't look so hot either - not as bad as the offense, but they gave up 27 points to the Cowboys and 19 to friggin' Minnesota.

Re: Bench Brunell
 

[quote=mheisig;217270]Right on.

The defense doesn't look so hot either - not as bad as the offense, but they gave up 27 points to the Cowboys and 19 to friggin' Minnesota.[/quote] If the offense could stay on the field (6 for 27 this season on 3rd down) maybe the D wouldn't look so bad. The defense played pretty good......for a while, but they cant be expected to win the game all by themselves.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[QUOTE=LadyT;217233]But, the bigger question is - Does Gibbs have the guts to do what most everyone knows needs to be done? Somehow I doubt it.[/QUOTE]

Then by all means, why don't you go out there and prove to us that you know more about coaching then the man with the rings.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[quote=skinsguy;217289]Then by all means, why don't you go out there and prove to us that you know more about coaching then the man with the rings.[/quote]

Oh get real. I'm hardly the only Skins fan with these thoughts. In fact, the majority of Skins fans are thinking the exact same thing right now. So are a LOT of ex-Skins, players who were with Gibbs when those rings were won.

So, quit pulling the "Gibbs has 3 rings" card, take off the blinders, and look at the present situation logically and realistically, instead of paying blind allegiance to what Gibbs last did 14 years ago.

I love the Skins and always will and I have a tremendous amount of respect for Joe. But I think he has been and still is wrong about Brunell. He seems to have a blind spot where MB is concerned, but I don't and neither do many other fans, players (current and past), and other football commentators - people who are far more knowledgeable about football than either you or I. And I include in that group Sonny J. who, by the way, is no fan of Brunell.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[quote=JankySpanky80;217260]Brunell won't be sitting down anytime soon according to Joe Bugel who was just talking to George Michael on NBC.[/quote]

Exactly what I feared and predicted. We will continue down this tortuous path with a washed-up QB, until it really is too late to salvage the season. If this weren't so sad and frustrating, it would almost be funny. But, I'm surely not laughing. Would love to know what the other offensive players are thinking (especially the WRs) and what they say amongst themselves when the media, MB and the coaches aren't around.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

LadyT, I don't usually agree with you but I think we're on the same page on this:)

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[QUOTE=LadyT;217300]Exactly what I feared and predicted. We will continue down this tortuous path with a washed-up QB, until it really is too late to salvage the season. If this weren't so sad and frustrating, it would almost be funny. But, I'm surely not laughing. Would love to know what the other offensive players are thinking (especially the WRs) and what they say amongst themselves when the media, MB and the coaches aren't around.[/QUOTE]
You're right about that. There is no way they can have much confidence in him anymore. And as for the two new receivers; did they have any respect for him to begin with (since they started playing with him)?

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

I hate to say it, but is Brunell losing his desire? I mean last year he was out to prove that 2004 was an anomaly compared to the rest of his career. And he went out there in the preseason determined not to be a backup to an average QB. Now, has he become complacent? I think he played poorly yesterday, but who didn't?

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[quote=12thMan;217302]LadyT, I don't usually agree with you but I think we're on the same page on this:)[/quote]

Yeah, 12thMan!! Well there are a few of us females who do know just a little bit about football, despite what some on this site might think.