[QUOTE=Mattyk;998180]Antoine Cason and Winfield have been mentioned as well.[/QUOTE]

But are they really better than Hall? Winfield is 40

Re: Around the NFL Free Agency Thread 2013
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;998186]But are they really better than Hall? Winfield is 40[/quote]

I thought he was 67?? Or maybe 112…

He will actually be a spry 36 in June.

Re: Around the NFL Free Agency Thread 2013
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;998186]But are they really better than Hall? Winfield is 40[/quote]

I think both are better than Hall. Winfield wouldnt be more than a 1 year deal. Cason is pretty average, i dont see us paying him like we would Talib.

Re: Around the NFL Free Agency Thread 2013
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;998186]But are they really better than Hall? Winfield is 40[/quote]

35, 40 same thing apparently

Using that logic Hall is 35

Always amazed at the love for Hall, I don't get it.

Re: Around the NFL Free Agency Thread 2013
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;998186]But are they really better than Hall? Winfield is 40[/quote]

Uh nope....
He turns 36 in June.

Re: Around the NFL Free Agency Thread 2013
 

[quote=Mattyk;998193]35, 40 same thing apparently

Using that logic Hall is 35

[B]Always amazed at the love for Hall, I don't get it[/B].[/quote]

Ive wanted to mention this after a couple comments this week.

Apparently Hall cant do any wrong now, but he gets crushed repeatedly during the season as the worst thing on this Earth.

I dont get it. There was no love for Carlos when he left (who was a much better, more talented player), but there is love for a guy who is clearly at the end of his career.

Dont get me wrong, I've been a Hall defender in the past. Thought he was better than what the stats say. But clearly his play has been much more eratic the last couple years (i.e. this year: first 8 games horrible, last 8 games improved play).

Its time to move on, we need more stable, consistent coverage from our starting corner.

Re: Around the NFL Free Agency Thread 2013
 

I think people's thing is not putting him up on a pedestal like he is great, but that he is a serviceable player who ALREADY KNOWS out system, and there aren't any other FA CBs out there that we can afford. So maybe he gives us a hometown discount and comes back. I think that is all it is.

Re: Around the NFL Free Agency Thread 2013
 

[quote=Chico23231;998202]Ive wanted to mention this after a couple comments this week.

Apparently Hall cant do any wrong now, but he gets crushed repeatedly during the season as the worst thing on this Earth.

I dont get it. There was no love for Carlos when he left (who was a much better, more talented player), but there is love for a guy who is clearly at the end of his career.

Dont get me wrong, I've been a Hall defender in the past. Thought he was better than what the stats say. But clearly his play has been much more eratic the last couple years (i.e. this year: first 8 games horrible, last 8 games improved play).

Its time to move on, we need more stable, consistent coverage from our starting corner.[/quote]

Like I posted the other day, I hope Hall signs with Dallas so RGIII can torch his ass on a regular basis.

Re: Around the NFL Free Agency Thread 2013
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;998213]Like I posted the other day, I hope Hall signs with Dallas so RGIII can torch his ass on a regular basis.[/quote]

And teach Dez Bryant how to keep his cool with the refs.

Re: Around the NFL Free Agency Thread 2013
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;998213]Like I posted the other day, I hope Hall signs with Dallas so RGIII can torch his ass on a regular basis.[/quote]

No offense dude, but you sound like a cry baby here. Get over it.

This is the type of complaining/b*tching I am relieved not to hear now that Hall is gone. Thank God.

[QUOTE=Mattyk;998193]35, 40 same thing apparently

Using that logic Hall is 35

Always amazed at the love for Hall, I don't get it.[/QUOTE]

I don't love Hall I'm just saying he's better than winfield.

Re: Around the NFL Free Agency Thread 2013
 

[quote=Ruhskins;998217]No offense dude, but you sound like a cry baby here. Get over it.

This is the type of complaining/b*tching I am relieved not to hear now that Hall is gone. Thank God.[/quote]

Speak for yourself, Hall apologist.

Re: Around the NFL Free Agency Thread 2013
 

[quote=Ruhskins;998217]No offense dude, but you sound like a cry baby here. Get over it.

[B]This is the type of complaining/b*tching I am relieved not to hear now that Hall is gone. Thank God.[/B][/quote]

x2

Guy played on our team I supported him now he is gone who is his replacement? that is all I care. Some people with certain players act like a jilted girl on prom night.

Re: Around the NFL Free Agency Thread 2013
 

Let me see if I have this straight.

D Hall was the only reason fans ever complained, and now that he is gone, the complaining will stop with 100% certainty.

Not sure if most here are all in for betting, but I wouldnt worry about checking the odds in Vegas on that actually happening.

Re: Around the NFL Free Agency Thread 2013
 

[quote=SkinzWin;998206]I think people's thing is not putting him up on a pedestal like he is great, but that he is a serviceable player who ALREADY KNOWS out system, and there aren't any other FA CBs out there that we can afford. So maybe he gives us a hometown discount and comes back. I think that is all it is.[/quote]

Knowing the system isn't a sole reason to keep someone.

Re: Around the NFL Free Agency Thread 2013
 

According to pro football focus Winfield rating as a corner on a 1000+ snaps was +25.2
Hall on a thousand plus snaps was a -3.2...

Only problem with Winfield is his age but the man played at a pro bowl level this year.

[url]https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/01/01/free-agent-cornerbacks/[/url]

Re: Around the NFL Free Agency Thread 2013
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;998220]Speak for yourself, Hall apologist.[/quote]

I'm not an apologist, I just have some common sense.

Re: Around the NFL Free Agency Thread 2013
 

[quote=Ruhskins;998233]I'm not an apologist, I just have some common sense.[/quote]

On here sometimes, they both go hand in hand apparently.

Re: Around the NFL Free Agency Thread 2013
 

[quote=SkinzWin;998206]I think people's thing is not putting him up on a pedestal like he is great, but that he is a serviceable player who ALREADY KNOWS out system, and there aren't any other FA CBs out there that we can afford. So maybe he gives us a hometown discount and comes back. I think that is all it is.[/quote]

So we should not upgrade positions with more talent because they do not know the system? Well RG3 shouldn't have been drafted then cause grossman already knew the system...

The only reason hall would agree to a discount is if no one else wants him. Which could happen.

Re: Around the NFL Free Agency Thread 2013
 

[quote=Skinzman;998224]Let me see if I have this straight.

D Hall was the only reason fans ever complained, and now that he is gone, the complaining will stop with 100% certainty.

Not sure if most here are all in for betting, but I wouldnt worry about checking the odds in Vegas on that actually happening.[/quote]

I know the complaining won't end, but at least the stupid Hall haters vs. Hall apologists will tone down significantly.

Re: Around the NFL Free Agency Thread 2013
 

And so will the stupid Belichick haters.

Re: Around the NFL Free Agency Thread 2013
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;998219]I don't love Hall I'm just saying he's better than winfield.[/quote]

The numbers last year don't really bear that out. Only one other starting corner gave up more yards than Hall.

Re: Around the NFL Free Agency Thread 2013
 

[quote=donofriose;998236]So we should not upgrade positions with more talent because they do not know the system? Well RG3 shouldn't have been drafted then cause grossman already knew the system...

The only reason hall would agree to a discount is if no one else wants him. Which could happen.[/quote]

You do realize that all he was doing was giving a "possible" explanation as to why some would want D Hall back. He never once said that RG3 sucks and Rex is the greatest QB ever.

Re: Around the NFL Free Agency Thread 2013
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;998230]Knowing the system isn't a sole reason to keep someone.[/quote]

Read more carefully. I am saying that the other FA players at his position are no better than he, or are not attainable due to our limited cap. Since he knows our system already, he gets the edge over other similar players. I was not insinuating that is the only reason. Just the one that could tip the scales in his favor if all things are equal.

Re: Around the NFL Free Agency Thread 2013
 

[quote=Skinzman;998245]You do realize that all he was doing was giving a "possible" explanation as to why some would want D Hall back. He never once said that RG3 sucks and Rex is the greatest QB ever.[/quote]

He was stating that the skins should keep hall because he already knew the system. All I'm saying is that is not a legit reason to keep someone

Nevermind he just cleared it up above. My mistake

Re: Around the NFL Free Agency Thread 2013
 

winfield could be a great 1-2 year stop gap. he played well last year, and he might be the best available cb for this year. we'll be drafting a couple dbs and we'll have money next year, so i'd be completely okay with that under the current circumstances.

Re: Around the NFL Free Agency Thread 2013
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;998213]Like I posted the other day, I hope Hall signs with Dallas so RGIII can torch his ass on a regular basis.[/quote]

I'm not a huge Hall of fan either, but you have to give him credit. He was w/out question our best DB the last half of the season. He played great against Dez Bryant the last game of the season.

Re: Around the NFL Free Agency Thread 2013
 

[quote=Mattyk;998244]The numbers last year don't really bear that out. Only one other starting corner gave up more yards than Hall.[/quote]

I'm sure the lack of safety help and lack of pass rush plays into that.

Re: Around the NFL Free Agency Thread 2013
 

[quote=skinsfan69;998259]I'm sure the lack of safety help and lack of pass rush plays into that.[/quote]

Being second worst in the NFL has no excuses. There are other corners with that dilemma and they were not second worst in the entire NFL

Re: Around the NFL Free Agency Thread 2013
 

Rotoworld is saying that the Lions signed Reggie Bush to a four year deal.

Re: Around the NFL Free Agency Thread 2013
 

[quote=donofriose;998262]Being second worst in the NFL has no excuses. There are other corners with that dilemma and they were not second worst in the entire NFL[/quote]

Depends on the stat. Most yards given up by a CB is about as important of a stat as who ate the most sandwiches during the week.

Between zone and man, pass rush, safety help, ect. There is way to many variables to come into play. If you run a lot of zone, then the CB cant jump anything that comes his way. If you do that, OC's will send a player into your zone with the intention of you jumping them. Then they leave that zone and bring a second receiver into the zone. So a CB jumps the wrong receiver, yet is credited with a good play because the receiver he jumped didnt make a catch, when in actuality, the play was entirely his fault since he left his zone unattended.

Man to man with safety help over the top. The CB plays underneath forcing a throw to be over the CB but under the safety. M. Williams is over chatting with the cheerleaders so its an easy throw over the top for the QB. The CB is credited with a terrible play and giving up yards, yet he played it perfectly. He stopped the underneath throw and forced the QB to go over him and under the safety. The problem is the safety, but the stats go against the CB.

When a stat rates bad play as good and visa versa, we need to ask ourselves how important of a stat it actually is.

If we put every CB into man to man with no safety help on every play, then mandate that the ball is throw at exactly 3.5 seconds after the snap every single time, then that stat holds water.

Re: Around the NFL Free Agency Thread 2013
 

[quote=SkinzWin;998246]Read more carefully. I am saying that the other FA players at his position are no better than he, or are not attainable due to our limited cap. Since he knows our system already, he gets the edge over other similar players. I was not insinuating that is the only reason. Just the one that could tip the scales in his favor if all things are equal.[/quote]

I understand that, I am saying there are some that say keep Hall just because he knows the system.

Re: Around the NFL Free Agency Thread 2013
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;998263]Rotoworld is saying that the Lions signed Reggie Bush to a four year deal.[/quote]


[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/03/13/bush-lions-have-a-deal/]Bush, Lions have a deal | ProFootballTalk[/url]

Re: Around the NFL Free Agency Thread 2013
 

[quote=Skinzman;998274]Depends on the stat. Most yards given up by a CB is about as important of a stat as who ate the most sandwiches during the week.

Between zone and man, pass rush, safety help, ect. There is way to many variables to come into play. If you run a lot of zone, then the CB cant jump anything that comes his way. If you do that, OC's will send a player into your zone with the intention of you jumping them. Then they leave that zone and bring a second receiver into the zone. So a CB jumps the wrong receiver, yet is credited with a good play because the receiver he jumped didnt make a catch, when in actuality, the play was entirely his fault since he left his zone unattended.

Man to man with safety help over the top. The CB plays underneath forcing a throw to be over the CB but under the safety. M. Williams is over chatting with the cheerleaders so its an easy throw over the top for the QB. The CB is credited with a terrible play and giving up yards, yet he played it perfectly. He stopped the underneath throw and forced the QB to go over him and under the safety. The problem is the safety, but the stats go against the CB.

When a stat rates bad play as good and visa versa, we need to ask ourselves how important of a stat it actually is.

If we put every CB into man to man with no safety help on every play, then mandate that the ball is throw at exactly 3.5 seconds after the snap every single time, then that stat holds water.[/quote]

I am not saying hall is the second worst corner in the NFL. I am saying that to be second worst in that category is atrocious. And I understand pass rush is directly related to pass defense and scheme is important to. But it's still terrible to be the second worst in total yards allowed in the NFL.

Again hall isn't the second worst corner in the NFL like this stat would make you believe. But there are a lot of other corners who play with the same set of handicaps as hall and they weren't that had in that stat.

Also that stat comes from pro football focus. Pro football focus does a great job finding out who's responsibility is what and that is how they determine who is responsible for the catch. They do not just look at who's in the area. They find out who was supposed to do what. For instance if a safety is supposed to be covering deep zone and the corner is supposed to be trailing but the safety didnt get over in time and its a 70 yard td (like victor Cruz td) then that negative stat goes toward the safety. But if its cover zero man to man and the corner gets beat... It's the corner. It's why I trust pro football focus more than other websites in ranking their positions.

In the end hall isn't the worst but there are better corners in free agency and there are better potential corners in the draft. And hall is not worth what the skins were paying him. Wasn't even close. He's closer to one or two million for his performances.

Re: Around the NFL Free Agency Thread 2013
 

Haven't given up on Talib yet.

Both the Washington Examiner and 106.7 The Fan in D.C. pass along word that the Redskins are still targeting free agent Aqib Talib.
Per The Fan's Grant Paulsen, two agents -- neither of whom rep Talib -- say he is the "cornerback the Redskins want." The Examiner's John Keim has "heard the same from multiple people" in the league. Unfortunately, Washington is currently only $600,000 under the salary cap and would have to slash at least a player or two to fit in Talib. We should know soon whether they can make it happen. Mar 13 - 11:19 AM
Source: John Keim on Twitter

Re: Around the NFL Free Agency Thread 2013
 

[quote=skinsfan69;998259]I'm sure the lack of safety help and lack of pass rush plays into that.[/quote]

Josh Wilson played under the same conditions yet did not give up the yardage that DHall did.

Re: Around the NFL Free Agency Thread 2013
 

NFLN reports Rashard Mendenhall to the Cards.

Re: Around the NFL Free Agency Thread 2013
 

[quote=Lotus;998286]Josh Wilson played under the same conditions yet did not give up the yardage that DHall did.[/quote]

But Josh Wilson wasnt being put one on one with TJax when we had a slim lead late in the game. Also Josh Wilsons strength is positioning. He is great at using the positioning of the safety to determine where he should be. He is not a man on man guy. He had more over the top help than DHall. Not like either had much over the top help, but Wilson had more of it.

PS.. Im not defending Hall, im glad he is gone based on what we were paying him. I am just not into every single stat that someone can claim has relevance. Remember RG3 is too short and small to be a good QB in the NFL and should have been a WR... According to some of these idiotic stats.

[quote]But if its cover zero man to man and the corner gets beat... It's the corner. It's why I trust pro football focus more than other websites in ranking their positions.[/quote]

What if its cover 1 and the safety goes left instead of right when he was assigned to double to the right? PFF doesnt know the play call so has no clue they are rating it wrong, and just say the safety was assigned to the left and the CB on the right therefore had no choice but to be in straight man to man. Its a page view stat at best.

Re: Around the NFL Free Agency Thread 2013
 

Hall's release is purely economical and it makes sense (it is not the end of the world as some people put it). We can find similar/better talent for a better price that fits our needs. Personally, I hope we have a young CB that can become a starter for years to come, rather than having 1 to 2 year band aids.

Re: Around the NFL Free Agency Thread 2013
 

Too bad Pollard is more of a SS than a FS, otherwise I'd take him in a heartbeat. Dude is a beast.

[url=http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9047356/baltimore-ravens-release-top-tackler-bernard-pollard-source]Baltimore Ravens to release top tackler Bernard Pollard -- source - ESPN[/url]