Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=over the mountain;1127542]This is funny.

You think this team, with all of its injuries, should be ..... 5-2?

even funnier ... its all bc of Kirk Cousins?

it gets better though .... you think gruden and Scot agree with you and that any fan who thinks we shouldnt be 5-2 but for Kirk Cousins doesnt know football!?!

some random stats, i dont know what to do with them.

skins v falcons - D gave up 418 yds while we managed 51 total yards rushing. despite that, down by 3 with 24 seconds left, that asshole Kirk goes 46 yards in 24 seconds for a game tying field goal. we were without reed and jackson. falcons D ranked no. 11.

skins v jets - D gives up 474 yards while we managed 34 yards rushing. By the way, we were without trent, reed and jackson going up against the no. 3 defense in the league. That was probably the least talented group of starters on offense any QB had to work with that week .. against the Jets D .. but we should have won, but for Kirk Cousins not "managing" the game.

How does a QB manage a game when he is getting 51 and 34 yards rushing or being asked to throw 38+ times? Thats not being asked to manage.

Does Kirk get any love for coming back against the Bucs for the win or do we blame him for it being 17-0.

bucs 1st 3 drives:

1st drive - 64 yds = TD
2nd drive - 71 yds = FG
3rd drive - 72 yds = TD

^^^ is that Kirks fault too?

I love this. This is such a cool new way to look at things. Lets just make stuff up to fit our agenda.

This is the kind of Cousins hate that I just do not understand. I totally understand people who want to wait and see if Kirk put together consistent games.

I do not get posts like yours though.[/quote]

This��

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=punch it in;1127560]Its play well as a "team" or bust. Just sayin. There are qb's who can make everyone around them better. There are qb's who can get the job done with the rite pieces around them. There are qb's who suck no matter what. Imo KC is good enough. Unless someone in tier 1 falls into our laps we will continue to build around KC.[/quote]

KC is a free agent at the end of the season. If he plays well it will cost $$$$$ to sign him. If not, the Redskins are back to square one.

Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[QUOTE=Irrefutable;1127618]KC is a free agent at the end of the season. If he plays well it will cost $$$$$ to sign him. If not, the Redskins are back to square one.[/QUOTE]


We wont break the bank by signing him. We still hold our draft picks, and we can still afford a couple FA pick ups. Ill leave all that to the FO though. Point is if he plays well than we would be idiots to let him walk. Especially after our history with qb's. We build around him.
Edit : by a couple free agent pickups i mean improvements - not just the obligatory tit for tat bologna.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

I am not sure what people see in Cousins that makes them think he is a QB you can "build around" Now, that doesn't mean you can't win with Cousins, but I don't see any franchise building themselves around Kirk Cousins. To me that would the equivalent of saying the Jets are building themselves around Ryan Fitzpatrick (well, besides the age factor).

Cousins has his pros and cons, but do people really see intangibles and x-factors in his game that lead them to believe he is a QB you can build around? Usually that kind of QB shows something elite very early in their career and uses seasons 1-3/4 to work out the kinks. I have yet to see something about Cousins's game that screams "franchise QB that absolutely must be locked up"

Again, I don't want to make it seem like we can't win games with him, but if Cousins is the route this team plan goes to go long-term under Scott McCloughan, then we better start seeing every draft pick in the near future being used to build a Top 5 defense with staying power.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

Go get Matt Stafford and grab Sean Payton too .....Blow it up and get a coach who is a proven winner

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=NoCalHail;1128025]I am not sure what people see in Cousins that makes them think he is a QB you can "build around" [/quote]

I agree completely.

We need to get a QB who can finally not only throw the ball but be committed enough to also catch a few balls himself. Would be nice if the new QB could run the ball, do some blocking, play some defense and do special teams just for those onside kicks.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[QUOTE=ethat001;1128029]I agree completely.



We need to get a QB who can finally not only throw the ball but be committed enough to also catch a few balls himself. Would be nice if the new QB could run the ball, do some blocking, play some defense and do special teams just for those onside kicks.[/QUOTE]


Thank you. Finally someone who understands! Lmao.
Honestly there was some people posting in here that were heavily under the influence of stupid. So glad you posted this.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=tc2deuce;1128026]Go get Matt Stafford and grab Sean Payton too .....Blow it up and get a coach who is a proven winner[/quote]

You know ... like Mike Shanahan.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[QUOTE=ethat001;1128029]I agree completely.



We need to get a QB who can finally not only throw the ball but be committed enough to also catch a few balls himself. Would be nice if the new QB could run the ball, do some blocking, play some defense and do special teams just for those onside kicks.[/QUOTE]



I seem to recall Matt Stafford having this ability. We need to defiently get him this off season. I also think it would be smart to fire Gruden and start over again because continuity dosn't matter in the NFL..

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

Kirk Cousins has proven to me that he is NFL starting QB material. I think he is good enough to win with now and he is continuing to get better. We haven't even glimpsed his ceiling, IMO. He is the proverbial late bloomer. There are also [U]no[/U] off-field or locker room problems with Kirk.

I don't expect many Redskins fans to agree with me about Kirk right now. I completely understand why other people need to see more from him before jumping on his bandwagon. For now, I'm happy to be one of the few people on his bandwagon and I'll be here to welcome many more people throughout the rest of the season.

I think that the Redskins need to re-sign Kirk or risk derailing their team building effort.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

Kurt Cousins is an average quarterback. He throws just as many interceptions as touchdowns. There is nothing special about his pocket presence, arm strength, accuracy or coverage recognition. I'm not totally down on him but there is nothing to get excited about. A lot of the Redskin problems are not at the quarterback position and never was under Gruden. The biggest problem is the offensive play calling. Too many passes not enough running plays. The strength of the Skins is their running game and they get away from it too early. As soon as the Skins trail in a game, I sense panic coaching. The Skins have very little deception in their formations. Shotgun is an obvious passing formation.

Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[QUOTE=KI Skins Fan;1128049]Kirk Cousins has proven to me that he is NFL starting QB material. I think he is good enough to win with now and he is continuing to get better. We haven't even glimpsed his ceiling, IMO. He is the proverbial late bloomer. There are also [U]no[/U] off-field or locker room problems with Kirk.



I don't expect many Redskins fans to agree with me about Kirk right now. I completely understand why other people need to see more from him before jumping on his bandwagon. For now, I'm happy to be one of the few people on his bandwagon and I'll be here to welcome many more people throughout the rest of the season.



I think that the Redskins need to re-sign Kirk or risk derailing their team building effort.[/QUOTE]


Agree 1000%!
Edit: though I don't really consider him a late bloomer. He is getting a late chance. The announcers referenced this yesterday during the game. He finally is the starter from preseason throughout. He is blooming week to week.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

This franchise has been so Quality QB play dry for the last 20+ years that it seems people have convinced themselves that Kirk Cousins is going to morph into a great QB.

I would say his ceiling is something along the lines of an Alex Smith, who also struggled early in his career with turnovers, had somewhat of a 2-3 season resurgence in his last two seasons in San Francisco and when he left for KC, but eventually settled into pretty much being a game managing QB.

Alex Smith is certainly not an elite QB or one you would "build around" but you can win games with him if the team is built correctly.

I'll re-iterate that I think the team can win games with Kirk under center, maybe even be a playoff team eventually, however I don't think he will ever be a Top 10 kind of QB and that is OK if Scott McCloughan plans to build this team into the next Seahawks style team.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=NoCalHail;1128060]This franchise has been so Quality QB play dry for the last 20+ years that it seems people have convinced themselves that Kirk Cousins is going to morph into a great QB.

I would say his ceiling is something along the lines of an Alex Smith, who also struggled early in his career with turnovers, had somewhat of a 2-3 season resurgence in his last two seasons in San Francisco and when he left for KC, but eventually settled into pretty much being a game managing QB.

Alex Smith is certainly not an elite QB or one you would "build around" but you can win games with him if the team is built correctly.

I'll re-iterate that I think the team can win games with Kirk under center, maybe even be a playoff team eventually, however I don't think he will ever be a Top 10 kind of QB and that is OK if Scott McCloughan plans to build this team into the next Seahawks style team.[/quote]

We don't need a top 10 QB in 2015 or 2016.

WE NEED EVERYTHING ELSE!

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=Brody81;1128043]I seem to recall Matt Stafford having this ability. We need to defiently get him this off season. I also think it would be smart to fire Gruden and start over again because continuity dosn't matter in the NFL..[/quote]

The Steelers have had 3 head coaches since 1969.

F that. Blow it up.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[QUOTE=KI Skins Fan;1128049]Kirk Cousins has proven to me that he is NFL starting QB material. I think he is good enough to win with now and he is continuing to get better. We haven't even glimpsed his ceiling, IMO. He is the proverbial late bloomer. There are also [U]no[/U] off-field or locker room problems with Kirk.





I don't expect many Redskins fans to agree with me about Kirk right now. I completely understand why other people need to see more from him before jumping on his bandwagon. For now, I'm happy to be one of the few people on his bandwagon and I'll be here to welcome many more people throughout the rest of the season.





I think that the Redskins need to re-sign Kirk or risk derailing their team building effort.[/QUOTE]



I'm on.. Pass the Vodka.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=NoCalHail;1128060][B]This franchise has been so Quality QB play dry for the last 20+ years that it seems people have convinced themselves that Kirk Cousins is going to morph into a great QB. [/B]

I would say his ceiling is something along the lines of an Alex Smith, who also struggled early in his career with turnovers, had somewhat of a 2-3 season resurgence in his last two seasons in San Francisco and when he left for KC, but eventually settled into pretty much being a game managing QB.

Alex Smith is certainly not an elite QB or one you would "build around" but you can win games with him if the team is built correctly.

I'll re-iterate that I think the team can win games with Kirk under center, maybe even be a playoff team eventually, however I don't think he will ever be a Top 10 kind of QB and that is OK if Scott McCloughan plans to build this team into the next Seahawks style team.[/quote]
I don't think most (or any) fans see KC as evolving to greatness. I do think most will say he's the best we've got on roster, and maybe better than what the draft provides next year.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=hail_2_da_skins;1128050][B]Kurt Cousins is an average quarterback. [/B]He throws just as many interceptions as touchdowns. There is nothing special about his pocket presence, arm strength, accuracy or coverage recognition. I'm not totally down on him but there is nothing to get excited about. A lot of the Redskin problems are not at the quarterback position and never was under Gruden. The biggest problem is the offensive play calling. Too many passes not enough running plays. The strength of the Skins is their running game and they get away from it too early. As soon as the Skins trail in a game, I sense panic coaching. The Skins have very little deception in their formations. Shotgun is an obvious passing formation.[/quote]

:rolleyes:

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

I think its funny that if u dont have a cannon for an arm you are cast into the "game manager" position. That is the dumbest name ever. Kirk is a smart qb who has the ability to throw 30-40 times and gain 300 yards if need be. His bad interception, rush to judgement throws have certainly subsided and that was really his only knock. He is able to avoid pressure, read defenses, and make the throw. He has improved every week of the season in his first real season at the helm. I cannot imagine how many times Griff would have had to pick himself up and brush off the dirt over these first 8 games. As soon as this guy gets the run game, a solid group of wr's, and a defense on his team he is going to be a damn good QB. We still have a shot at the division and it is so nice we are playing meaningful games in November, but I cannot wait until we get a few more pieces on this team and really challenge the league next year. Namely, a MLB, DB, S, WR, C / right side help, and an edge rusher.

Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

His stat line yesterday, if everyone else came to play, would have read something like 30-38, 310 yards, 2 td's and 0 int's. This is being conservative since the damn drives all stalled due to a butterfingers fucking outbreak. It was a God damned epidemic! How many quartetbacks ( especially ones starting one of their first 20 games) go into fucking Foxboro and do that?
Edit: Garcons int should have been a first down and nice gainer. Carriers perfectly placed baby in a fucking blanket should have gone for 40 fucking yards!

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=punch it in;1128083]I think its funny that if u dont have a cannon for an arm you are cast into the "game manager" position. That is the dumbest name ever. [B]Kirk is a smart qb who has the ability to throw 30-40 times and gain 300 yards if need be[/B]. His bad interception, rush to judgement throws have certainly subsided and that was really his only knock. He is able to avoid pressure, read defenses, and make the throw. He has improved every week of the season in his first real season at the helm. I cannot imagine how many times Griff would have had to pick himself up and brush off the dirt over these first 8 games. As soon as this guy gets the run game, a solid group of wr's, and a defense on his team he is going to be a damn good QB. We still have a shot at the division and it is so nice we are playing meaningful games in November, but I cannot wait until we get a few more pieces on this team and really challenge the league next year. Namely, a MLB, DB, S, WR, C / right side help, and an edge rusher.[/quote]

But why is it on a "if need be" basis? Right now this should be our offense.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=punch it in;1128084]His stat line yesterday, if everyone else came to play, would have read something like 30-38, 310 yards, 2 td's and 0 int's. This is being conservative since the damn drives all stalled due to a butterfingers fucking outbreak. It was a God damned epidemic! How many quartetbacks ( especially ones starting one of their first 20 games) go into fucking Foxboro and do that?
Edit: Garcons int should have been a first down and nice gainer. Carriers perfectly placed baby in a fucking blanket should have gone for 40 fucking yards![/quote]

Oh jeez, we arent doing make believe stats now, are we?

Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;1128085]But why is it on a "if need be" basis? Right now this should be our offense.[/QUOTE]


Every game in a qb's career is not going to resemble that stat line is all i meant. Wasnt necessarily commenting on the here and now. He has the ability to do that.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

Who is Cousins?

The 24th rated passer and the 20th QBR rated passer.

In other words, nothing special

Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[QUOTE=Chico23231;1128088]Who is Cousins?



The 24th rated passer and the 20th QBR rated passer.



In other words, nothing special[/QUOTE]


It is trending up that is what is important. Becoming more consistent. Everyone was saying let me see him string together two good games. He just did n one was on the road in Foxboro. His fucking teammates let him down and stole his thunder.
Edit: next week will be number three in a row when he torches the Saints D. Lets hope everyones hands are nice and fucking warmed up now.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[IMG]http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/09/a3139072e392a0d9db3039fc3f770a26.jpg[/IMG]
These rankings dont tell the whole story. Far from it. Im pretty sure nobody is looking to trade Cam for Tyrod Taylor. You cannot see Cams name because it is two quarterbacks below Cousins. Fuck rankings Cousins is passing the eye test with flying colors as of late. A vast improvement from earlier in the year.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=Chico23231;1128088]Who is Cousins?

The 24th rated passer and the 20th QBR rated passer.

In other words, nothing special[/quote]

This is why I pay little attention to stats. KC should have had a much better stat line yesterday. He lost probably 80 yards in drops and a int that clearly wasn't his fault.

He's not anything special right now, I agree there. But I think he's showing that he is a starter and can win games with a good team around him. Right now he doesn't have a good team around him and has 0 running game.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

Wait....he has improved every week? I don't agree. He has been up and down the entire season, just like he has been in the past.

I won't hold the Pats game against him because of all the drops, but eliminating this game from consideration, he still hasn't really strung two good performances together in a row yet this season.

No one is arguing whether he is the "best option on the current roster" but that doesn't necessarily mean anything in the big picture other than the fact that we have mediocre-to-average QB's on the roster.

Game manager, average, etc etc etc......whatever the term may be. Where does he rank statistically against all other QB's in the league? Somewhere in the middle probably. So what does that make him?

The question isn't about 2015. This is likely a 6 win team regardless. This is about what we do beyond this season. Some of you are ready to lock him up long term based on what you have seen so far? Really? I completely understand a 1-2 year extension based on management feeling they need more time to evaluate while also giving them the option to draft or go out and sign another QB if they see fit, but I haven't seen anything from Cousins that screams out needing to make him the long term answer at QB for the franchise.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1128092]This is why I pay little attention to stats. KC should have had a much better stat line yesterday. He lost probably 80 yards in drops and a int that clearly wasn't his fault.

He's not anything special right now, I agree there. But I think he's showing that he is a starter and can win games with a good team around him. Right now he doesn't have a good team around him and has 0 running game.[/quote]


Right but so can Ryan Fitzpatrick but you don't go and give him a long term contract for franchise QB money. There are a lot of middle of the pack QB's that can win games with a "good team around them" and that is good and all, but you don't go out and pay them to be a franchise QB.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[QUOTE=NoCalHail;1128093]Wait....he has improved every week? I don't agree. He has been up and down the entire season, just like he has been in the past.



I won't hold the Pats game against him because of all the drops, but eliminating this game from consideration, he still hasn't really strung two good performances together in a row yet this season.[/QUOTE]

So if you eliminate the second game of two good games in a row than he hasnt played two good games in a row? Gotcha.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[QUOTE=punch it in;1128083]I think its funny that if u dont have a cannon for an arm you are cast into the "game manager" position. That is the dumbest name ever. Kirk is a smart qb who has the ability to throw 30-40 times and gain 300 yards if need be. His bad interception, rush to judgement throws have certainly subsided and that was really his only knock. He is able to avoid pressure, read defenses, and make the throw. He has improved every week of the season in his first real season at the helm. I cannot imagine how many times Griff would have had to pick himself up and brush off the dirt over these first 8 games. As soon as this guy gets the run game, a solid group of wr's, and a defense on his team he is going to be a damn good QB. We still have a shot at the division and it is so nice we are playing meaningful games in November, but I cannot wait until we get a few more pieces on this team and really challenge the league next year. Namely, a MLB, DB, S, WR, C / right side help, and an edge rusher.[/QUOTE]

I don't understand the "not having a strong arm" he just overthrew DJ again Sunday on a deep ball down the sideline. His arm is plenty strong.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

I wouldn't call yesterday a "good game"

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=Brody81;1128097]I don't understand the "not having a strong arm" he just overthrew DJ again Sunday on a deep ball down the sideline. His arm is plenty strong.[/quote]

I think too often "strong arm" is only looked at by how far a QB can heave a ball downfield, when it is really so much more. Making throws with zip on the ball, hitting WR's in stride. Those crossing patterns in the medium range where the WR is running towards sideline and the QB has to zip it into tight window.

All of that stuff is part of what makes up a strong arm. You watch Brady play in that Pats offense, and they throw as many short passes as any other offense, but Brady delivers the ball with zip where it needs to be in order for YAC to occur on almost every single catch, where as Cousins often times is throwing behind the WR, low to the ground, or in a spot where the ball catcher has to stop to catch it, therefore gets tackled right away. Is it due to lack of arm strength or still working on timing in the scheme? Could be some of both.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[QUOTE=NoCalHail;1128098]I wouldn't call yesterday a "good game"[/QUOTE]


Bullshit. 8 drops. Cousins was on the money.

Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[QUOTE=Brody81;1128097]I don't understand the "not having a strong arm" he just overthrew DJ again Sunday on a deep ball down the sideline. His arm is plenty strong.[/QUOTE]


I dont think his arm is john beck like im just catering to the masses. My point was people like to tag him as the next game managing alex smith.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

His bad interception, rush to judgement throws have certainly subsided and that was really his only knock.-
^^Punch It

You make some good points. But I have to disagree with the portion above. I don't think his knack for interceptions has subsided nor was it his only knock and his other knocks were/are accuracy and ability to handle adversity.
But I would give the kid credit for handling adversity and being more resilient this year.
Still has a ways to go with consistent accuracy and interceptions.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=punch it in;1128100]Bullshit. 8 drops. Cousins was on the money.[/quote]

Dude. Settle down. I didn't say he was bad yesterday either. It's hard to really make much of a judgement out yesterday's game to be honest. A couple of those throws go for big yards if they are caught, others were short yardage would-be completions that probably don't keep drives alive anyway. It was a mixed bag. He also under throw Jackson early in the game when he was wide open behind the secondary.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[QUOTE=punch it in;1128101]I dont think his arm is john beck like im just catering to the masses. My point was people like to tag him as the next game managing alex smith.[/QUOTE]



I just used your quote to make my comment. I know you don't think he has a weak arm.. This whole argument is getting retarded. Some guys will never get onboard with Kirk because he wasn't a high draft pick. They can't get excited about a 4th round pick. The good thing is Scott will be making this decision, and I trust it will be the right one. I would love to know what he thinks of Kirk. I would guess he is very pleased with his progression so far.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[QUOTE=30gut;1128102]His bad interception, rush to judgement throws have certainly subsided and that was really his only knock.-

^^Punch It



You make some good points. But I have to disagree with the portion above. I don't think his knack for interceptions has subsided and his other knocks were/are accuracy and ability to handle adversity.

But I would give the kid credit for handling adversity and being more resilient this year.

Still has a ways to go with consistent accuracy and interceptions.[/QUOTE]


Well accuracy and the int's obviously go hand in hand. He certainly has looked better the last couple starts in that department. Could signal a maturation or maybe he just got lucky? Time will tell. I will say with certainty that unlike 8 weeks ago a QB is not exactly an area of need anymore. Thank God.

Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[QUOTE=NoCalHail;1128103]Dude. Settle down. I didn't say he was bad yesterday either. It's hard to really make much of a judgement out yesterday's game to be honest. A couple of those throws go for big yards if they are caught, others were short yardage would-be completions that probably don't keep drives alive anyway. It was a mixed bag. He also under throw Jackson early in the game when he was wide open behind the secondary.[/QUOTE]


You said "not a good game". I disagree, and to me that would be a bad game. Not good = bad. Lol. If the drops dont occur it is a really good game.
Edit: chico i just saw ur comments. Its not make believe that 8 drops affected his completions percentage or that the carrier drop alone cost him 40 yards. It is certainly not make believe that the garcon non catch resulted in his lone INT. You can choose to not read between the lines, or see the forest thru the trees or any other of the overused metaphors but KC passed the eye test with flying colors in Foxboro yesterday.