Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[QUOTE=saden1;330962]Without pay you say? For an entire season? What for? So I can drown on my own sorrow? No one but fans think about what's best for the team. I mean, you don't go into work everyday and think to yourself "by god, I'm going to do what's best for the team."

Sure, if you have TB you probably would, and rightly should, think of others first but when it comes down to your paycheck, your team and your employer it's all about you. It's all business. Pay me to sit at home if you want me to "take unpaid time off" otherwise see you tomorrow Bob.[/QUOTE]

Whoops major typo on my part. I meant "with pay"

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;330974]All fair points Saden. We merely differ in our opinions as to what the NFL should be able to do here, regardless of the outcome of US v. Vick. I also agree that celebs like Vick are people just like you and me and should be held to the same standard (not higher or lower).[/quote]

It the case of a celeb, I would agree, I think.. but he's really a rold model for young athletes by being an NFL star. It comes with being who he is... It's not like he's Paris Hilton.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[quote=hesscl34;330973]No, they are not only respnosible for themselves. Not when they have thousands of young kids looking up to them.

And I wasn't talking about "you" saying that.. just over all.[/quote]

Ah, role model for this kids argument. We have to show the kids how bad of a man he is? That'll teach them a valuable life lesson not to do as he did.

What if Vick is not convicted? What's the lesson there? Money talks bullshit walks? Become a pro athlete and you can get away with anything?

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[quote=saden1;330977]Ah, role model for this kids argument. We have to show the kids how bad of a man he is? That'll teach them a valuable life lesson not to do as he did.

What if Vick is not convicted? What's the lesson there? Money talks bullshit walks? Become a pro athlete and you can get away with anything?[/quote]

Let's be realistic here. We all know he was involved.. if he gets off, then good for him (for having a smart lawyer), but at the end of the day he WAS involved, and that is enough I think for the NFL to take action. They have tape of him telling one of the owners to kill a dog... how is that not involved? If I were in his shoes I'd be thankful for the gift of my talent, I wouldn't be throwing it away for some thug dog fighting ring. The NFL needs a serious "clean up" in my opinon. Give these kids something to strive for, to have a better life.... don't turn a blind eye and let them be criminals AND pro athletes.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

I think we've had some very well thought out posts and good arguments on both sides of the fence.

In my opinion the best and most reasonable way for the NFL to handle this is to remove themselves from trying to determine whether or not Vick is actually guilty of a crime or not; They need to, and I believe they will, make their decision independent of the courts, the judge, or what any lawyer provides. The NFL would do themselves an injustice, in my opinion, of attempting to play the role of lawyer or judge.

Goodell's intention is to clean up the image of the NFL. Period. And sometimes that involves hardcore evidence and guilt beyond reasonable doubt and sometimes it doesn't. If Goodell makes his decision based on Vick's criminal involvement or lack thereof, then justice, according to the NFL, may not run truly run its course. Because it's the image and the perception of the league that the Commish is trying to restore. And on that basis, I think Vick will be, at the very least, suspended for several games, if not the entire season.

Now if the court of law later determines that Vick is actually guilty of said crimes, then obviously the NFL must submit to the higher authority and either extend Vick's suspension indefinetely or ban him from the league all together.

My 12 cents.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

4 games, if for no other reason than to let Joey Harrington accrue even MORE negative QB value in his career.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[quote=12thMan;330984]I think we've had some very well thought out posts and good arguments on both sides of the fence.

In my opinion the best and most reasonable way for the NFL to handle this is to remove themselves from trying to determine whether or not Vick is actually guilty of a crime or not; They need to, and I believe they will, make their decision independent of the courts, the judge, or what any lawyer provides. The NFL would do themselves an injustice, in my opinion, of attempting to play the role of lawyer or judge.

Goodell's intention is to clean up the image of the NFL. Period. And sometimes that involves hardcore evidence and guilt beyond reasonable doubt and sometimes it doesn't. If Goodell makes his decision based on Vick's criminal involvement or lack thereof, then justice, according to the NFL, may not run truly run its course. Because it's the image and the perception of the league that the Commish is trying to restore. And on that basis, I think Vick will be, at the very least, suspended for several games, if not the entire season.

Now if the court of law later determines that Vick is actually guilty of said crimes, then obviously the NFL must submit to the higher authority and either extend Vick's suspension indefinetely or ban him from the league all together.

My 12 cents.[/quote]

Now let's think... what would the redskins do if this was one of their players?

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[quote=hesscl34;330988]Now let's think... what would the redskins do if this was one of their players?[/quote]well they would obviously be innocent silly. NO action needed.


Note: Sean Taylor. Joe Gibbs knew with he divine power that ST would not be guilty and therefore used his judgment not to take action.


Taylor did sit out one game for his DUI (which he wasn't guilty of because he is a redskin). It was the Green Bay game. I forget the exact reasoning but it wasn't exactly for the DUI. Anyone remember?

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

I know this wasn't a option but I say 6 with the chance of going up to 2 years pending a conviction.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[quote=BigSKINBauer;330989]well they would obviously be innocent silly. NO action needed.


Note: Sean Taylor. Joe Gibbs knew with he divine power that ST would not be guilty and therefore used his judgment not to take action.


Taylor did sit out one game for his DUI (which he wasn't guilty of because he is a redskin). It was the Green Bay game. I forget the exact reasoning but it wasn't exactly for the DUI. Anyone remember?[/quote]


Pretty sure it was because he missed a meeting.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

Vick is Finished! There is no way in the world that he is going to recover from this. If I am proven wrong then so be it. I would love to see him return to a successfull career after his suspension (which I believe will last an entire season). The problem is that the negative publicity is going to overshadow any chace of him making a legitimate comeback. This reminds me of Mike Tyson when he got imprissioned and never returned to the form of his prime.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[quote=Paintrain;330886]What past record? Please detail all of his previous legal transgressions.

I don't want to come off as a Vick apologist but the whole 'ban him for the season, the team should suspend/bench him' before anything has been heard in court is a bit over the top. The accusations in the indictment are heinous, I had dogs for years and if anyone did what he's accused of I want them hung by their balls and beaten with baseball bats. But for right now, that's all they are, [B][I][U]accusations.[/U][/I][/B]

There is zero correlation to PacMan, Henry, Tank or anyone else. They all had repeated arrests, pleas and numerous troubles with the law. Vick was never arrested, charged or convicted in the Miami airport incident. He was a model citizen (as far as any of us knew) on and off the field before his middle finger incident late last year.

I wonder if some people are confusing Marcus Vick's previous trouble and are using guilt by name association to think he's been in the news negatively for a long time.

If he's guilty his suspension will be a vacation compared to his sentence. I still think he'll plead it out after the season, spend 4-8 months in jail and be suspended the 1st 8 games of '08.[/quote]

Ok maybe RECORD was the wrong word, look at his past actions always doing something wrong, hmmm waterbottle with a hide away spot , the female a while back, the way he treats fans, shows you what kind of person he is, hmm and HE owns the property, i dont care who is living on it he is responsible as is any landlord, if the residents get busted selling drugs the govt can seize the house. also what happened with McNair he wasnt driving but he owned the car.. but still got the dwi.
Just his actions tend to tell you what kind of person he is but then everyone will have their own opinion. So we will see what this judge says..

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[quote=Dlyne8r;330793]Everyone on this board has offered very valid reasons for their choice in how many games Vick should be suspended, if any at all. That’s what makes this site so good: intelligent and informed conversation. But what frustrates me so much is this one simple thing: If this incident involved me or any one else on this board, we would be facing insurmountable obstacles. In fact, we most likely would lose our jobs, our income, and even worse, our families. Even if we had NOT been given the opportunity to go through the legal system. Why then should an athlete, or a celebrity, people that have huge amounts of income, be treated any different than we average people?[/quote]

I totally agree, I still am pissed they let Ray Lewis off for obstruction of justice, when he could have been the perp in the murder he was involved in. They nailed Rae Carruth for murder, but kept Ray Lewis on the field. This was a very big mistake and probably was the precedent that kicked off all this bad behavior. $$$$$$$$$ and prestige can keep you above the law. Just look at OJ and our so called "leaders" in DC. When men are above the law in any nation, look out!!!!!!!

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

Rae Carruth...ugh, what a slimy bastard. There are other options besides plotting to have your pregnant wife murdered

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;331039]Rae Carruth...ugh, what a slimy bastard. There are other options besides plotting to have your pregnant wife murdered[/QUOTE]

And with all his money, you would think he would have done it in a smarter way.