Re: Portis staying?
 

[quote=Beneil (diehard since 87);658351]
Question, if ANYONE can have success in Shanahan's system, why has nobody done as well in it since Portis? If players are interchangable, why didn't Shanahan get any rings after Elway and Terrell Davis were gone? Answer that, Solid.
[/quote]
First thing...how many rings did Portis get for Shanahan?

Here is your answer below. Read Slow. Here are guys who have succeeded since Portis was traded:

2005: Mike Anderson 1,014 yards 4.2 YPC 12 TDs
2006: Tatum Bell 1,025 yards 4.4 YPC 2 TDs
Mike Bell 677 yards 4.3 YPC 8 TDs

2007: Selvin Young 729 yards 5.2 YPC 1TDs
Travis Henry 691 yards 4.1 YPC 4 TDs

2008: Michael Pittman 320yds 4.2 YPC 4 TDs
Peyton Hillis 343yds 5.0 YPC 5 TDs
Selvin Young 303yds 5.0 YPC 1 TDs
*3 runners combined for 10 TDs, 966 yards..not a bad year

2009: Knowshon Moreno 947yds 3.8 YPC 7TDs
Correll Buckhalter 642yds 5.4YPC 1TD

Okay....so it looks like they've been just fine and successful since the mighty Portis was traded....

Re: Portis staying?
 

Realizing or not I love what players have done for us, but I'm more for the team getting younger, healthier, and faster. Plus we need viable back ups sitting waiting in the wings instead of running into what we did this year running out of viable back up OL and having to look at what FA's were available.

Re: Portis staying?
 

I just don't get all this hostility, other than people like Portis. But here are the facts that should make the decision:
1- it will be an uncapped year (more than likely)
2- Portis has a huge contract.
3- portis has lost a step, and will be 29 come start of season.
There are no real good reasons to keep him other than personal. He's an average back now, and you don't pay top dollar for an average back. We are better off getting a rookie with fresh legs at a fraction of a fraction of the cost and save our cap for future years.

Re: Portis staying?
 

[quote=Beneil (diehard since 87);658351]Question, if ANYONE can have success in Shanahan's system, why has nobody done as well in it since Portis? If players are interchangable, why didn't Shanahan get any rings after Elway and Terrell Davis were gone? [/quote]Portis had a monster 2002 & 2003, however Denver's rushing attack remained solid with many different backs after Portis left. From 2004-2008 the Broncos were in the top ten in the NFL in Total Yds Rushing and Yards Per Attempt each year (except 2008 Total Yds at 12th).

I don't think Shanahan's system should be questioned and while Portis did have two great years that was 6-7 years ago. Here are some Redskins backs and their carries per year along with 3 other "workhorse" backs

Riggo 2916 carries / 14 years / 208 avg. carries per year
Larry Brown 1530 / 8yrs / 191 avg
Byner 2095 / 14 yrs / 149 avg
E. Campbell 2187 / 8 yrs. / 273 avg
E. George 2865 / 9yrs. / 318 avg
LT 2880 / 9 yrs. / 320 avg

Portis 2176 / 8 yrs / 272 avg.
However since Portis has been a Redskin, in the years he was healthy for 16 games, he has carried the following load: 343 / 352 / 325 / 342.
This is a monster workload. Even great backs with this type of workload break down at 8 or 9 years. I seriously doubt we see Portis return to his previous form.

Re: Portis staying?
 

[quote=MonkFan4Life;658283]My user name has nothing to do with this issue. The fact that it was your opening salvo really lets me know how much you had on me for a response. I'm a football fan chief, I can also take the Redskins shades off to judge a player for them and not what a newspaper or talk show host wants me to think. That's something else, but I'll get to the facts that you tried to prove me wrong with. I didn't say a thing about Williams and Jones but I'll meet you there also. Delhomme is one of the FEW QB's that I wouldn't drop Campbell for and Favre had a bad year BUUUUUUT he did throw 22 TD's as well. Campbells performance is relevant when the O-Line is one of the reasons given for his production or lack there of, he's another subject for me. On to the subject at hand.

Now, it took Portis 342 attempts to gain those yards, So the F what. He got them didn't he. Obviously there were a lot of men in the box, or maybe the same line that you would complain about Jason having to play behind gave him the same grief. I guess that doesn't count. I can't believe that you can really discount the fact that he put the team on his back for 2 playoff runs. Honestly, but you say because they lost that it was HIS fault ? WOW

I really wish you had looked up stats before you thought about choosing me as the guy to make a name on. Let's look at the great running backs that you speak of after Portis.

The year before Portis got to Denver (2001),Terrell Davis gave them 701 and Mike Anderson gave them 678.

'02 Portis - 1,508
Mike Anderson -386. I wonder why he wasn't starting ?
'03 Portis - 1,591
'04 Droughns - 1,240
'05 Mike Anderson -1,014
Tatum Bell - 921
'06 Tatum Bell 1,025
'07 Selvin Young -729

Do you notice something ? Like I said, He knows what he had in Portis, and that guy is not done. If people can say that Jason needs blocking to be successful, what can Portis do with the same thing ? The same thing that he has done without it,...produce.

This is a lot of typing so if you are on XBox Live we can continue this debate but believe me I'm not a kid, I'm not an easy win.[/quote]I can't honestly speak for how much effort dgack put into his post, but that sure seemed like an easy win for him.

Re: Portis staying?
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;658357]Top Running Backs from 2009

Chris Johnson: 2,006 yards 5.6 YPC
Cedric Benson: 1,251 yards 4.2 YPC
Steven Jackson: 1,416 yards 4.4 YPC
Thomas Jones: 1,402 yards 4.2 YPC
Maurice Jones-Drew: 1,391 yards 4.5 YPC

Your precious Portis wasn't higher than any of those starts listed above. So i know you hate facts, but Portis wasnt better than anybody this season...especially not on our team.[/quote]Good points. Portis was actually 32nd in the NFL in Yards per Attempt (minimum 6 rushes per game to qualify).

Re: Portis staying?
 

Thats what pisses me off with this Beniel guy. We all give him facts, back each other up, and show general good sporstmanship, and he gets on here and still talks shit to people.

He challenged me to answer questions for him which i did. This thread is 9 pages of the same answers i gave. Again and again, showing him the backs who were successful since Portis was gone...He accused me of not knowing facts. I gave him facts.

Its maddening

Re: Portis staying?
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;658380]Thats what pisses me off with this Beniel guy. We all give him facts, back each other up, and show general good sporstmanship, and he gets on here and still talks shit to people.

He challenged me to answer questions for him which i did. This thread is 9 pages of the same answers i gave. Again and again, showing him the backs who were successful since Portis was gone...He accused me of not knowing facts. I gave him facts.

Its maddening[/quote]Facts, schmacts, who cares about those. :smashfrea


I still think he's just messing around trying to see how far this can go. Its been little slow at work this week, so I'll play along.

Re: Portis staying?
 

Previously people thought that CantonLegend might actually be Portis.

Maybe Beneil is actually Portis.

Re: Portis staying?
 

I remember that from the fall....Beneil could be portis i guess....i believe it because only Portis is pathetic enough to spend his time on a washington redskin message board :)

Re: Portis staying?
 

Why worry about it Snake? It is what it is. I feel like Portis has hurt this team as much as helped it. Some people probably find that incredible to say, but I think you see the same things I do. Someone else not seeing it doesn't make it untrue. To each his own. Trust me, you'll get frustrated as hell because logic or facts have no meaning to someone hell-bent on proving they're right about someone they like. I went through the same thing with Marcus Washington. I still think he was cut too soon, but the fact is he wasn't picked up by anyone last year. As for the statement that Portis was Gibbs favorite player, I don't remember Gibbs ever saying he had a favorite player. Here's an excerpt from his book "GamePlan for Life". "I've had players I've loved on gameday, but could barely stand the rest of the week. I've coached hotheads, egotists, and guys who played their rear ends off on Sunday but wouldn't practice a lick if it were left up to them. I called one guy into my office at Redskin Park and told him, "Hey, I love you on Sunday, but I hate you Monday through Saturday." He was dumbfounded but I think it made an impression on him. When we run into each other today at different events, he embraces me like a long-lost friend. He knows I cared about him, and that helped bring out the best in him. We'll be friends for life." It doesn't say who he was talking about and it really doesn't matter if it was Portis he was talking about or not. It DOES say how he felt about players who didn't want to practice. Some people like TO, some like Pacman Jones, I don't get it, but then again I don't have to, nor need to. Everyone has a right to their opinion and I do too. Everytime he does something positive on the field on Sundays, and it wasn't much last year, he does something negative with his mouth and hurts the team by the example he sets Monday through Saturday. Over-rated and spoiled are the words that come to mind when I think of Clinton Portis.

Re: Portis staying?
 

Ha ha ha! I hate facts!?!? This is the first time you geve your ideas any facts! All your other posts you say, 'losing a step' (no basis, last years stats are high, this year=worse line and concussion) and whenever someone is pro portis you act like they worship him and pretend they think he's perfect. Childish. Then when someone says the fact that Gibbs liked, allowed, and prefered Portis' personality and that HE would sit his best back (not Portis sitting himself) you reply stuff about how not all Gibbs words are to be taken as gospel, which is stupid cuz the guy never said gibbs was perfect either and holy crap, arent our only superbowls under his guidance? ALL of them. I would think he has an idea abaout how the game works.

As for you silly stats... Of COURSE Portis isn't one of the top backs from 09... HE HAD A CONCUSSION! As for the 4.0 ypc on Mason and Portis, Okay. fine. Betts wasn't far behind, but his longest run was 18 yards and he never got the first when we needed it. Looking at Rock's stats, you have to keep in mind we used him in draw plays and often at times when our opponents expected a pass play. Whenever it was a running situation he didn't seem to fair well, thuis Ganther being set to start. Though he and Ganther have similar % in 1st downs, he seemed to get them on running or passing downs, unlike Rock. I think if Ganther stuck with a system and was a #2 back, he would really kick some butt.

As for Mason... ugh... i was a mason guy myself. The game after Portis got hurt, i was screaming in a Buffalo Wild wings for them to put in Mason more. I mean, the guy shined 2 consecutive preseasons against 1st and 2nd sring defenses, was th eonly preseason hb to find the endzone consistantly. He's also the only back to get 20 yards other than CP. His production in the little regular season play he got didn't seem worthy of switching him out for anyone. I didnt get it... still don't. Once he's better at pass protecting, dude is a shoe-in for any #2 spot. (imo)

Anywho... This year, untill the last few games, our line didn't do squat for any of our backs in the rushing game

Re: Portis staying?
 

How come I'm the only guy who thinks 13 shy of 1500 isn't 'losing a step' therefore must be Portis in disguise!?!

this is me.

http:
//viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=16337186&albumID=2556777&imageID=63678094

And stop patting Solid snake on the back jsut because of one point he made out of a bujillion posts! I don't hate the guy, but sheesh, he hasn't said anything yet but one thing, to me, and it still didn't show how it's more Portis' fault than anyone else, NOR did he answer my questions about Shanahan

Re: Portis staying?
 

[quote=Beneil (diehard since 87);658415]How come I'm the only guy who thinks 13 shy of 1500 isn't 'losing a step' therefore must be Portis in disguise!?!

this is me.

http:
//viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=16337186&albumID=2556777&imageID=63678094

And stop patting Solid snake on the back jsut because of one point he made out of a bujillion posts! I don't hate the guy, but sheesh, he hasn't said anything yet but one thing, to me, and it still didn't show how it's more Portis' fault than anyone else, NOR did he answer my questions about Shanahan[/quote]

If you look that Portis situation logically and without bias, you'd come to the following conclusions:

1. Football is no longer a single back league. Yes, every now and then you'll have a freak like Chris Johnson tearing it up for 2000 yds. But look at the top rushing teams this year:
- NY Jets (Thomas Jones/Shonn Greene)
- Tennessee (exception to the rule with Chris Johnson)
- Carolina (DeAngelo Williams/Jonathan Stewart)
- Miami (Ronnie Brown/Ricky Williams)
- Baltimore (Ray Rice/Willis McGahee)

2. Portis' contract is a reflection of this era of the single back carrying the workload. And with this uncapped season, the team needs to unload these huge contracts that are paying players that are getting up there in age and may not be producing as much.

3. Economics. Portis stays in a new two-RB system, you're basically paying him three times the money for half of the carries. This same thing is happening in San Diego right now.

Portis is no bum, but age traditionally catches up with these workhorse RBs at 29-30 years old. He has talent, but is it worth paying that much money for half the carries? I think this is a situation where fans have to stop thinking so much about the player and think about the team.

Re: Portis staying?
 

[quote=Beneil (diehard since 87);658414]Ha ha ha! I hate facts!?!? This is the first time you geve your ideas any facts! All your other posts you say, 'losing a step' (no basis, last years stats are high, this year=worse line and concussion) and whenever someone is pro portis you act like they worship him and pretend they think he's perfect. Childish. Then when someone says the fact that Gibbs liked, allowed, and prefered Portis' personality and that HE would sit his best back (not Portis sitting himself) you reply stuff about how not all Gibbs words are to be taken as gospel, which is stupid cuz the guy never said gibbs was perfect either and holy crap, arent our only superbowls under his guidance? ALL of them. I would think he has an idea abaout how the game works.

As for you silly stats... [B]Of COURSE Portis isn't one of the top backs from 09... HE HAD A CONCUSSION![/B] As for the 4.0 ypc on Mason and Portis, Okay. fine. Betts wasn't far behind, but his longest run was 18 yards and he never got the first when we needed it. Looking at Rock's stats, you have to keep in mind we used him in draw plays and often at times when our opponents expected a pass play. Whenever it was a running situation he didn't seem to fair well, thuis Ganther being set to start. Though he and Ganther have similar % in 1st downs, he seemed to get them on running or passing downs, unlike Rock. I think if Ganther stuck with a system and was a #2 back, he would really kick some butt.

As for Mason... ugh... i was a mason guy myself. The game after Portis got hurt, i was screaming in a Buffalo Wild wings for them to put in Mason more. I mean, the guy shined 2 consecutive preseasons against 1st and 2nd sring defenses, was th eonly preseason hb to find the endzone consistantly. He's also the only back to get 20 yards other than CP. His production in the little regular season play he got didn't seem worthy of switching him out for anyone. I didnt get it... still don't. Once he's better at pass protecting, dude is a shoe-in for any #2 spot. (imo)

Anywho... This year, untill the last few games, our line didn't do squat for any of our backs in the rushing game[/quote]

Portis did not play after the concussion. Therefore his concussion had nothing to do with his numbers.