Re: Is it finally time to rebuild??
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;772993]If we can get a decent pick for Cooley we have to do it. He is THE most overrated player on the team. He is the second best tight end on the team and probably the 4th or 5th best tight end in the division. He has dropped key balls all friggin' year.[/quote]

Well I don't know what calling him the most overrated player means. It's not like there are very many highly rated players on this offense to begin with.

Cooley has had a down year, but the guy has been very solid for years for the Skins despite a revolving door at QB and offensive coordinator, not to mention a slew of shitty O-lines.

Fred Davis is a better athlete for sure, but Cooley runs better routes, is better after the catch, and, despite the drops, does have better hands. However, if the right offer is on the table, I can only think of two or three Skins that are untradeable, and Cooley isn't one of them.

Re: Is it finally time to rebuild??
 

[quote=GMScud;772995]Well I don't know what calling him the most overrated player means. It's not like there are very many highly rated players on this offense to begin with.

Cooley has had a down year, but the guy has been very solid for years for the Skins despite a revolving door at QB and offensive coordinator, not to mention a slew of shitty O-lines.

Fred Davis is a better athlete for sure, but Cooley runs better routes, is better after the catch, and, despite the drops, does have better hands. However, if the right offer is on the table, I can only think of two or three Skins that are untradeable, and Cooley isn't one of them.[/quote]

Mainly, I mean from a typical fans perspective. I think that 2005 Dallas game is etched in their brains. Plus, Cooley is very good at marketing so he is very popular.

I firmly believe that Davis is better and has been better. That was before Cooley decided to flat drop 50 percent of the clutch balls that came his way this year. He represents the old culture to me (overpaid, underperform) and I would be thrilled if they could get a 3rd. i would take a 4th. His pay is ridiculous compared to his production.

Re: Is it finally time to rebuild??
 

Not buying trading cooley, i honestly don't even think we'd get in return what he's worth to us, especially when I look at other teams and the te's they already have

Re: Is it finally time to rebuild??
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;772996]Mainly, I mean from a typical fans perspective. I think that 2005 Dallas game is etched in their brains. Plus, Cooley is very good at marketing so he is very popular.

I firmly believe that Davis is better and has been better. That was before Cooley decided to flat drop 50 percent of the clutch balls that came his way this year. He represents the old culture to me (overpaid, underperform) and I would be thrilled if they could get a 3rd. i would take a 4th. His pay is ridiculous compared to his production.[/quote]

If a 32 year old Tony Gonzalez can fetch a second round pick for the Chiefs then I would expect the Skins to be able to get the same for a 28 year old Cooley. Assuming we even decide to trade him. I mean this isn't like McNabb or Haynesworth were we have no leverage.

Re: Is it finally time to rebuild??
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;772993][B]If we can get a decent pick for Cooley we have to do it.[/B] He is THE most overrated player on the team. He is the second best tight end on the team and probably the 4th or 5th best tight end in the division. He has dropped key balls all friggin' year.[/quote]

We're not going to get one. Especially now. As unlikely as Redskin fans are to bring themselves to admit it, Cooley's star has faded. I posed the question of trading for him a year or so ago when it looked like Fred Davis could replace him. The time to do it would have been when his production was peaking -- of course, that would have been federal offense amongst fan blowhards who thought he was the Second Coming of Jesus Christ.

Re: Is it finally time to rebuild??
 

I think the perceived downfall of Cooley has been greatly exaggerated. Even with last week's miserable first half he still has 72 catches on the year (2nd highest total of his career) and 796 yards (also 2nd highest total of his career). He also has 9 catches of over 20 yards, the most he's had since 2007.

Re: Is it finally time to rebuild??
 

[quote=Beemnseven;773008]We're not going to get one. Especially now. As unlikely as Redskin fans are to bring themselves to admit it, Cooley's star has faded. I posed the question of trading for him a year or so ago when it looked like Fred Davis could replace him. The time to do it would have been when his production was peaking -- of course, that would have been federal offense amongst fan blowhards who thought he was the Second Coming of Jesus Christ.[/quote]

I think in a true rebuilding mode, you trade a player like cooley for a pick now and ESPECIALLY when you have a younger guy ready to step up into a starting role. Davis has had 2 years experience and learned from a great guy. Its time to move on. The 3rd string guy has shown flashes this year as well.

Re: Is it finally time to rebuild??
 

[quote=Chico23231;773040]I think in a true rebuilding mode, you trade a player like cooley for a pick now and ESPECIALLY when you have a younger guy ready to step up into a starting role. Davis has had 2 years experience and learned from a great guy. Its time to move on. The 3rd string guy has shown flashes this year as well.[/quote]

I agree. Tight end is one of the few positions (it may be the only position) where we have legitimate depth. We need youth period. Looking at our starting defense last week and the fact that they are probably going to 18 games makes the strategy of trying to win a championship with an old team obsolete.

If we were offered a 4th for Cooley, I would take it tomorrow.

Re: Is it finally time to rebuild??
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;773003]If a 32 year old Tony Gonzalez can fetch a second round pick for the Chiefs then I would expect the Skins to be able to get the same for a 28 year old Cooley. Assuming we even decide to trade him. I mean this isn't like McNabb or Haynesworth were we have no leverage.[/quote]

Here's the thing. Cooley never has been and never will never be as good as Tony Gonzalez. The thing that separates Gonzalez is that he makes 8 out of 10 of those catches that Cooley dropped.

They just aren't comparable. Gonzalez is a Hall of Famer while Cooley is an above average tight end.

Re: Is it finally time to rebuild??
 

[quote=Mattyk;773028]I think the perceived downfall of Cooley has been greatly exaggerated. Even with last week's miserable first half he still has 72 catches on the year (2nd highest total of his career) and 796 yards (also 2nd highest total of his career). He also has 9 catches of over 20 yards, the most he's had since 2007.[/quote]

These are good stats but nothing special, especially since Cooley is the first or second passing option. As the first or second option he should have over a 1000 yards and approach double digit touchdowns. Cooley just isn't capable of those numbers, not here anyway.

Re: Is it finally time to rebuild??
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;773046]Here's the thing. Cooley never has been and never will never be as good as Tony Gonzalez. The thing that separates Gonzalez is that he makes 8 out of 10 of those catches that Cooley dropped.

They just aren't comparable. Gonzalez is a Hall of Famer while Cooley is an above average tight end.[/quote]


I agree Gonzalez's is an elite TE where Cooley is above average and I say this regardless of his performance last Sunday, it was an off day for him.

Honestly and this pains me to say but Cooley is not even in the same boat as Witten. Cooley is good but not a game changer.

Re: Is it finally time to rebuild??
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;773047]These are good stats but nothing special, especially since Cooley is the first or second passing option. As the first or second option he should have over a 1000 yards and approach double digit touchdowns. Cooley just isn't capable of those numbers, not here anyway.[/quote]

Not sure why you're hating on the guy. As Matty pointed out, he's still putting up very solid numbers and at 28 is still in his prime. You're so convinced Davis is better- let me ask you- given his track record this year, do you really think Shanahan would hesitate to bench Cooley for a better player?

Cooley isn't an elite TE, but he's definitely well above average, and to call him the 4th or 5th best TE in the division is just silly. Boss isn't better. Neither is Celek (who has an MVP candidate at QB and isn't doing a whole lot). Witten is better than Cooley, but IMO that's about it in the NFC East.

Re: Is it finally time to rebuild??
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;773047]These are good stats but nothing special, especially since Cooley is the first or second passing option. As the first or second option he should have over a 1000 yards and approach double digit touchdowns. Cooley just isn't capable of those numbers, not here anyway.[/quote]

It's really not common for TE's to top 1000 yards.

A little perspective here: his 72 catches is 2nd among all TE's behind Witten with 90.

His 796 yards is 3rd among all TE's behind Witten and V. Davis.

I think some of you are really undervaluing him.

Re: Is it finally time to rebuild??
 

[quote=Mattyk;773053]It's really not common for TE's to top 1000 yards.

A little perspective here: his 72 catches is 2nd among all TE's behind Witten with 90.

His 796 yards is 3rd among all TE's behind Witten and V. Davis.

I think some of you are really undervaluing him.[/quote]

Good post. And those are good numbers for anyone in an offense as lame as ours. Imagine if we had any consistency with a coaching staff and QB? Cooley has already been to a few pro-bowls, and he'll probably see a few more before he's done in this league. Not spectacular, but a very, very solid player.

Re: Is it finally time to rebuild??
 

I really dont know what to do with McNabb. Trading him seems the most likely scenario, but i wonder what his perceived value is out there now that two coaches (Reid, Shanahan) have essentially given up on him as a starter.

I would think that best-case scenario, McNabb fetches a 4th round pick from a desperate franchise. (Only Oakland comes to mind, possibly Arizona). At worst he gets a 5th round that we might could use to find an offensive lineman. I think Linemen are the skins' most pressing need after basically being ignored for the past few seasons.

I don't know Portis' contract situation. I think this year was his final year, so I dont know if he could be traded. I guess its possible that Portis could be resigned at a lower price so that he could be a backup, but i am just guessing at this point. I also don't think Shanahan is very happy with CP right now because of his comments (Jeez who would have figured he'd mouth off again).

I just hope we can do something through the draft. That's what we've been missing for a decade now. This team under Snyder has never drafted that great, it's always been big money, aging free agents.

I do think Shanahan is changing the culture though. Before he arrived, and even with Gibbs to a certain degree, the highest paid player was played, regardless of his ability (or lack thereof). Now it seems like we are finally trying to put the best players on the field, regardless of their contracts...