Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

I thought I played pretty good.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[quote=LadyT;217313]Yeah, 12thMan!! Well there are a few of us females who do know just a little bit about football, despite what some on this site might think.[/quote]

I got your back, LT :)

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

12th used to pretend to be a woman.




j/k 12th

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

Seriously though, if we're going to badmouth Brunell we really shouldn't do it [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Respect_for_the_Aged_Day"]today[/URL]. Let's show some respect and save it for tomorrow

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[quote=ArtMonkDrillz;217317]12th used to pretend to be a woman.




j/k 12th[/quote]

I was waiting for someone to come back with that!!!

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

I had to go with it. Sometime I wish I could make a more original joke here and there, but that's not how I roll.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

I picture Grillz rolling in a 500 Benz.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[quote=gibbsisgod;217328]I picture Grillz rolling in a 500 Benz.[/quote]

Like naked in a Wendy's drive through, right?

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[quote=12thMan;217330]Like naked in a Wendy's drive through, right?[/quote] Well....thats not exactly how I picture it but.... its your story now, tell it how you want it.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[QUOTE=gibbsisgod;217328]I picture Grillz rolling in a 500 Benz.[/QUOTE]
500 Benz, 10 year old Taurus, what's the difference.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

I'm proudly pimping the 05 kia minivan bitches!

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

There is always a need to find a scapegoat when things are going poorly. The starting quarterback is usually the number one target.

To me, we are having a very hard time as a team learning this offense. It isn't just the x's and o's, and how you implement them on the field, which is hard enough. It is also the attitude that is different as one Post writer mentioned - going from a smashmouth orientation to this, for lack of a better word, finesse approach of Saunders. Finesse may not be the right word at all, but clearly in any case the Redskins are far from comfortable working in this offense.

And it will take time to get there.

If there was any mistake, as Thomas Boswell suggested could be a possibility, it might be that we were overconfident that the players understood the offense in the preseason and the coaches didn't see fit to work on putting it into play in the preseason games. That might have cost us development time.

Mark Brunell showed what kind of quarterback he was last year when he wasn't injured. This stuff about him not playing well if he has the slightest pain is in my view nonsense. What Brunell did was not talk openly about the amount of pain he was in - much more than we had the information to know about and put into perspective.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

nobody's answered this question though:

after suffering the losses it takes to get Brunell fluent in this new offense, what are we going to do with a 36 year old QB?

i assume Gibbs figured Brunell would've acclimated to Saunders offense more quickly than Campbell, but it clearly hasn't been that quick.

I really think Campbell's fresher legs and arm alone may won one of those games (whats the point of Brunell not throwing INTs if he doesn't throw any TDs?), either way the much needed experience would have been a boon for Campbell on his way to being our QB of the future. with Brunell, WHATS THE UPSIDE?

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

yup... good post.


[quote=illdefined;217356]nobody's answered this question though:

after suffering the losses it takes to get Brunell fluent in this new offense, what are we going to do with a 36 year old QB?

i assume Gibbs figured Brunell would've acclimated to Saunders offense more quickly than Campbell, but it clearly hasn't been that quick.

I really think Campbell's fresher legs and arm alone may won one of those games (whats the point of Brunell not throwing INTs if he doesn't throw any TDs?), either way the much needed experience would have been a boon for Campbell on his way to being our QB of the future. with Brunell, WHATS THE UPSIDE?[/quote]

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[quote=illdefined;217356]nobody's answered this question though:

after suffering the losses it takes to get Brunell fluent in this new offense, what are we going to do with a 36 year old QB?

i assume Gibbs figured Brunell would've acclimated to Saunders offense more quickly than Campbell, but it clearly hasn't been that quick.

I really think Campbell's fresher legs and arm alone may won one of those games (whats the point of Brunell not throwing INTs if he doesn't throw any TDs?), either way the much needed experience would have been a boon for Campbell on his way to being our QB of the future. with Brunell, WHATS THE UPSIDE?[/quote] exactly!!!!! everybody keeps saying Brunell gives us the best chance to win now. Well, heres a news flash. WE ARE NOT WINNING NOW. WTF are we waiting for???


I think Brunell is going to be on a very short leash. Gibbs mentioned in todays press confernence that Brunell has been "inconsistent". That is about as bad as it gets from Gibbs. He does not call out his players. IMO Gibbs knows Brunell is on his last leg. He will do whats right for us.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[QUOTE=illdefined;217356]i assume Gibbs figured Brunell would've acclimated to Saunders offense more quickly than Campbell, but it clearly hasn't been that quick. [/QUOTE]

I just don't think that's the problem. Players today get so much more time to study and prepare in the offseason. They have more mini-camps, OTA's, it's much more involved than it used to be.

Brunell has had plenty of time to review and go over this offense. It's not like Gibbs and Saunders snuck into Brunell's bedroom early one August morning, hit him over the head with the 700 page playbook, and said "know this by September 11."

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[QUOTE=gibbsisgod;217360]Gibbs mentioned in todays press confernence that Brunell has been "inconsistent". That is about as bad as it gets from Gibbs. He does not call out his players.[/QUOTE]

Again, another misuse of the word "inconsistent" by Gibbs.

Brunell has been very consistent -- consistent at sucking out loud.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

67.8% of the WARPATH cant be wrong!! Go with Campbell!!!!

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

Anybody thought that the offensive line sucks? I am not saying that it is them, but I am not saying it is Brunell. Yes, he looks weak, and somebody needs to sit him down and point that out to him, lets face it, our offense sucks. It is not the coach, it is not the Qb, it is not the play calling. It is the team, they look lost as hell(Cooley, Brunell, Offensive line, Cheerleaders) everyone looks lost. And they better fix damn fix it or we are the team that all the league wants us to be. SHITTY

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS;217319]Seriously though, if we're going to badmouth Brunell we really shouldn't do it [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Respect_for_the_Aged_Day"]today[/URL]. Let's show some respect and save it for tomorrow[/QUOTE]

haha, I didnt have to go work yesterday because of this wonderful day

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[QUOTE=twinskinsfan;217376]Anybody thought that the offensive line sucks? I am not saying that it is them, but I am not saying it is Brunell. Yes, he looks weak, and somebody needs to sit him down and point that out to him, lets face it, our offense sucks. It is not the coach, it is not the Qb, it is not the play calling. It is the team, they look lost as hell(Cooley, Brunell, Offensive line, Cheerleaders) everyone looks lost. And they better fix damn fix it or we are the team that all the league wants us to be. SHITTY[/QUOTE]

to be somewhat fair, let's remember the cowboys sent the house more than normal... and betts/duckett don't come close to picking up the blitz like portis. i still think the o-line is still adjusting to the new schemes (no doubt about that). dockery was getting comfortable last season, but this new system probably has him confused. rabach isn't looking like himself either.

Benching Brunell may not be the answer.
 

Benching Brunell might make alot of people happy right now. But has anyone thought that maybe it is our team collectively that blows? Our offesive line sucks. Yes, Brunell at this very momemt, the obvious, SUCKS, and the coahes suck. I think everybody on the offensive side is lost as hell, nobldy has a clue where they are supposed to be at anytime. The defense, I think the rest of the league has figured us out. They know where we are coming from, and WAHT THE HELL, IF YOU WANT TO SCORE A TOUCHDOWN ON THE REDSKINS, THEN....THROW IT DEEP!!! easy as that.

Re: Benching Brunell may not be the answer.
 

I wish I could say something wise and unconventional... and I really want to say "start Mark Brunell". I mean I wish I could say "Look at last year... he looked sooo bad... and then BOOM! He came out of no-where and showed up".. ..

I want to say Mark Brunell still has a few great years left. He had a career year last year. He threw for over 3000 yards. He was a Force.

But I forgot last year. I live in the present. I speak on raw emotion, and I have blind faith in a rookie quarterback that has never thrown a pass in the NFL. My Judgement far exceeds a 3 time superbowl winner. I'm educated... I watch sportscenter. I should be the coach. Joe Gibbs is a great guy and all but isn't he fed up with Mark? I am so bitter about losing to Dallas that something MUST change. I can't stand losing, so I'm going to change the guy that took us to the playoffs last year and threw for 25 touchdowns and 10 interceptions and put my eggs in a different basket. Ef you Mark Brunell, YOU SUCK.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

I'm so amazed at ALL OF YOU! Two games down and this is what happens? JESUS CHRIST! If Portis was playing, we would be talking about REPLACING portis too. This is absolutely ridicilous. I think everyone is trying to place the blame on anything that is accessible; who is more blamable than mark Brunell? He gave us an Amazing year, and I really do mean that. Look at the Stats; they are fucking good. He played a good game last week... and this week things fell apart so it means he must be benched. But do any of you realize if we throw Jason Campell In there, its going to be a waste of a year? If the redskins dont' get a running game, Jason Cambell is going to get messed up. IF the redskins don't get a running game now, Mark Brunell isn't going to succeed either. If the Redskins dont' get a running game, the Defense is going to suffer.

So before we start blaming Mark Brunell for everything that happened to the redskins for the past 30 years, lets look at the lack of running the ball.

Re: Benching Brunell may not be the answer.
 

I hear what you're saying, twinskins. Though I don't know that it warranted a new thread. You're echoing the sentiments of several people who have said all the blame can't be Brunell's in several posts in several threads. The blame has to go all around, including but not only Brunell.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[QUOTE=djnemo65;217377]haha, I didnt have to go work yesterday because of this wonderful day[/QUOTE]

Seriously? That's awesome.

Re: Benching Brunell may not be the answer.
 

I have mixed feelings on benching Brunell. He has looked awful, to say the least. But he can still put some zip on the ball, and is pretty good at not turning it over. I think we need to leave him in there until he gets some decent pass protection and #26 comes back to bolster the running game. I can say with conviction that we cannot put the ball in Brunell's hands and say, "hey Mark, go win the game." That just won't happen. If we can RUN the damn ball to set up the passing game, then I believe he can still be effecient. But with no Portis, no pass blocking, and only 16 friggin running plays a game, we're aren't going anywhere. Where is our vaunted O-line? Can't Buges get these "dirtbags" to knuckle up a bit? We made the Cowboys D-line look way better than they are.

And on that note, WHY THE HELL AREN'T WE RUNNING IT MORE???? Down the stretch last year when we ripped off the last 5 regular season games, we ran it 35-40 times per contest. That's what won Coach Gibbs three Super Bowls in his first stint, and that has been the biggest determinant of his success this time around. RUN RUN RUN, and the field will open up for the pass!!!!! Although you have to convert 3rd downs first I guess....

Re: Benching Brunell may not be the answer.
 

I think there are several reasons we aren't running more. But the two main ones are that a.) the gap between Portis and Betts talentwise is a lot bigger than many perhaps originally thought, and b.) stupid penalties on 1st and 2nd down are forcing 3rd and longs. I think it's time for Duckett to move up a spot in the depth chart. I mean is Betts still hurt, because he doesn't look so great. No one does, but he especially just looks really slow

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[QUOTE=Bushead;217386]I'm so amazed at ALL OF YOU! Two games down and this is what happens? JESUS CHRIST! If Portis was playing, we would be talking about REPLACING portis too. This is absolutely ridicilous. I think everyone is trying to place the blame on anything that is accessible; who is more blamable than mark Brunell? He gave us an Amazing year, and I really do mean that. Look at the Stats; they are fucking good. He played a good game last week... and this week things fell apart so it means he must be benched. But do any of you realize if we throw Jason Campell In there, its going to be a waste of a year? If the redskins dont' get a running game, Jason Cambell is going to get messed up. IF the redskins don't get a running game now, Mark Brunell isn't going to succeed either. If the Redskins dont' get a running game, the Defense is going to suffer.

So before we start blaming Mark Brunell for everything that happened to the redskins for the past 30 years, lets look at the lack of running the ball.[/QUOTE]

I agree that now is not the time for Campbell, that our destiny for this season is probably going to remain in Brunell's hands, but I disagree with your assesment that this thread represents some kind of unfair witchhunt. I think the overwhelming results of this poll reflect a growing anxiety amongst Redskins nation that Brunell is no longer capable of playing big time NFL football, that he is all washed up. Yes the running game looks bad. Yes the line is porous. There are problems with this team that go beyond the quarterback position. But what I - and evidently many others - see when we watch Brunell is someone who cant get velocity on his passes, who wont plant and deliver, who wont take shots down the field, who is immobile, etc. There are, for me, discernable deficiencies in his game. I think I could throw a better ball than him, and I was a holder in Junior High School.

Anyway, my point is that there is a difference between saying that all of our problems this season can be attributed to him (they cant) versus saying that, given our many smaller problems, at quarterback we have a big problem, which is what I think the more intelligent posts in this thread argue. Like it or not Brunell is the quarterback, but are you seriously saying you are comfortable with this, at least as of right now? Trotting out his stats from the first 14 games of last season proves nothing, because we are now going on, what, 9 straight wobbly games from him? It hurts to face it, but this team just might have problems at qb that are too big to overcome. Curse at us all you want, but I think Brunell's performance so far this season at least warrants questioning.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

Sorry if anyone else posted something similar but I don't feel like reading through 35 pages of posts so here goes:
I almost started to say yes but I think with as huge as this playbook is, he should get another week. Normally there shouldn't be any major position changes barring injury but Brunell looks like an old Patrick Ramsey w/o the arm. He looked so lost and flustered last night that if I hadn't known better, I would have thought him to be a fresh rookie getting thrown to the lions. He panicked when he had protection and he couldn't throw it away or run when the pressure got close. He consistently was throwing behind his target and was always throwing off his back foot. He never attempted anything downfield even when replays showed he had a reciever with a step on the dbs. This season has too much invested in it to keep giving someone who hasn't produced in his last 8 games dating back to last year's playoffs and including the preseason. And there's something about the way Al Saunders has said that if a switch were to be made, they would bypass Collins and immediately go to Campbell and that speaks a lot of the coaching staffs belief in Campbell's abilities to me. But Brunell does deserve a full game of a healthy Portis and they MUST get Cooley and Moss involved early and often. I honestly think the team can bounce back from this rough start and be the team we all thought they could be, but someone must inject some life and energy into this team because thus far they have played like a team with no heart and desire.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS;217388]Seriously? That's awesome.[/QUOTE]
Seriously, they dont have christmas or easter over here so they just make up random hollidays and give people off. I think there are over 20 holidays this year I get out of work for.

Re: Benching Brunell may not be the answer.
 

Tafkas, I agree that Betts doesn't look as good as I've seen him in the past, but Duckett didn't look like he was exactly ramming it in there either. He (Ducektt) did have that one nice 15 yard run to the outside, but we've gotta get Portis back. As far as Duckett being #2 on the depth chart, I think he probably would be if he had been with the team for more than a few days of training camp.

But don't you agree that running the ball on first and second down sets the tempo and controls both the clock and the pace of the game?? We're trying to do too many things on offense. Apparently the cowboys were playing a cover 2 that involved a few d-backs staying way back in coverage to prevent any successful deep routes. Running consistently would bring more men in the box and open up the pass. Anyone knows that. I want to believe that Gibbs brought Saunders in large part becuase of his success pounding that rock (see Priest and Larry Johnson). I scream and yell at the TV to RUN THE DAMN BALL.

So do we give Brunell a game against a traditionally bad team to turn it around? With Portis likely back this week and the track record of the Texans, don't you think Brunell deserves to give it one more go??

Re: Benching Brunell may not be the answer.
 

Yeah I was just saying that I think they put themselves in situations where they couldn't run especially on second downs. There's no question we need Portis back.

Re: Benching Brunell may not be the answer.
 

I am really tired of having to deal with bitching about the quarterback position. We have a constant carousel year in and out, controversies year in year out, and discussions like one pretty much on a consistent basis. Never shoulda let Brad Johnson go....

Re: Benching Brunell may not be the answer.
 

[quote=twinskinsfan;217380]Benching Brunell might make alot of people happy right now. But has anyone thought that maybe it is our team collectively that blows? Our offesive line sucks. Yes, Brunell at this very momemt, the obvious, SUCKS, and the coahes suck. I think everybody on the offensive side is lost as hell, nobldy has a clue where they are supposed to be at anytime. The defense, I think the rest of the league has figured us out. They know where we are coming from, and WAHT THE HELL, IF YOU WANT TO SCORE A TOUCHDOWN ON THE REDSKINS, THEN....THROW IT DEEP!!! easy as that.[/quote]

I think brunell was skipping balls 5 yards short on 10-15 yard routes. the easy way to see who's to blame is to see if another QB can do any better.

Re: Benching Brunell may not be the answer.
 

We had 16 first downs before the last 2 possessions (where they picked up a whole bunch of "free" yards. Results:
8 pass plays: 5/7, 47 yards, 1 sack. First down obtained on 6 of 8 of these series.
8 run plays: First down obtained on 2 of 8 of these series.

When they run the ball on first down, the'yre usually stuck with 2nd and long, and then we know what's going to happen.

They SHOULD run the ball, all things NOT considered. But when we consider how bad our rushing is (not placing blame, but plenty to go around) it's leaving us in a hole. So, until it's fixed, we need to pass more frequently on first down, at least to keep them guessing. (For the first downs in the second half in the above analysis, we passed once and ran 4 times, thus eliminating ourselves from the game.)

Re: Benching Brunell may not be the answer.
 

The solution to me seems obvious. Throw more short passes and spread the ball around. Get Cooley involved again. Throw the ball to the RBs, we've had great success doing it so far. Lots of screens and slants and curls to the WRs. And then, run your best back up the gut.

I have not been impressed by Saunders playcalling thus far, and even though he has a great track record doing so and will get the ship righted, I think it was a mistake in hindsight for Gibbs to give up the offense.

Re: Benching Brunell may not be the answer.
 

[quote=That Guy;217408]I think brunell was skipping balls 5 yards short on 10-15 yard routes. the easy way to see who's to blame is to see if another QB can do any better.[/quote]He's prone to inaccuracy. So is McNabb, but people love him. It's a relatively harmless flaw in his game that when pressured in the pocket he throws low.

Re: Benching Brunell may not be the answer.
 

No screens for now. That assumes they have someone blocking. But with the blockers blocking like cardboard cutouts, every time they throw one there's a heat-seeking missile coming through untouched.

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;217417]... Lots of screens and slants and curls to the WRs. And then, run your best back up the gut.....[/QUOTE]

Re: Benching Brunell may not be the answer.
 

[quote=GTripp0012;217417]The solution to me seems obvious. Throw more short passes and spread the ball around. Get Cooley involved again. Throw the ball to the RBs, we've had great success doing it so far. Lots of screens and slants and curls to the WRs. And then, run your best back up the gut.

I have not been impressed by Saunders playcalling thus far, and even though he has a great track record doing so and will get the ship righted, I think it was a mistake in hindsight for Gibbs to give up the offense.[/quote] I agree and when they used Sellers early in the Dallas game I thought thats what we where going to do (getting more players involved). I do think that we are seeing Saunders and our players going through an adjustment period. In Gibbs second year he realy knew what to he could get from each player and as of now Saunders looks as if he does not know which players to get involved in each situation. I would think that gibbs would have helped with that from the begining when Saunders first got here.