Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

It's rough sledding, but I'm good with it............

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

The problem is if you keep Griffin in there, and he's still struggles, the players start bitching and Gruden will lose the locker room. We have emotional wr's as it is. This almost happened to Gibbs back in 87 with Doug and Jay.

Still have to remember it's pre season. But on some plays it looked like the same old Griffin.

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk;1117335]I know the mob doesn't want to hear it but you can't pull the plug on Griffin this early. Unless he can't play due to injury you have to give him a real shot and see how things play out into the season. This is the spot we're in... buckle up.[/QUOTE]


I halfway agree with this.I believe you can pull Griff,theres no open competition for the job and there needs to be.I agree with you that they will not pull the plug unless he's injured or his play and our record is so bad that they are finally convinced he's not going to turn it around.

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1117319]Where do you get the impression from that I'm adamant he can be developed into a pocket passer?[/quote]

Well u would hate it rg3 left so I would assume u think he can be an nfl qb

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

Griffin may very well be done as the starting QB here sooner rather then later. And personally I think its a certainty at some point.

[B][SIZE="4"]BUT[/SIZE][/B]its not going (knowing this staff 'should not' is probably more accurate) to stem from his play in the Lions game. Using the Lions game as referendum on Griffin is the popular groupthink overreaction. But to me it appears to be based more on perception/emotion more then actual football. The general rush from some fans/media to point to this "game" as proof of their negative belief is imo clearly out of balance.

I mean seriously, a referendum after 5 pass attempts? Never mind the game situations ([url=http://www.nfl.com/videos/washington-redskins/0ap3000000514192/Kurt-Warner-diagnoses-why-RGIII-is-struggling]Kurt Warner diagnoses why Washington Redskins quarterback Robert Griffin III is struggling - NFL Videos[/url]) but 5 passes and Griffin is done? C'mon, lets be serious.

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

[quote=Schneed10;1117321]It's hard for us Skins fans to face this one hard truth: we don't have a quarterback....Tough reality to swallow, but that's it.[/quote]It might be hard for some. And to be clear its not over yet, the whole fanbase is trying to hit that inside straight baby! But anyone who looks at the big picture should have been prepared for the distinct possibility that we don't have QB.

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

[QUOTE=rocnrik;1117288]..IF YOU WERE THE HEAD COACH AND YOUR FUTURE WAS RIDING ON IT ..WHO WOULD YOU GO WITH AT QB??..lets here it ..[/QUOTE]Good question.

I have to answer the question 2 different ways. One as HC Jay Gruden and another as Generic HC.

If I were [I][B][U]Jay[/U][/B][/I] I would start Kirk Cousins or Colt McCoy. And I wouldn't have waited for this training camp. I would have made my intentions clear prior to this offseason. I believe right or wrong any organization needs to be of 1 accord, 1 vision. And to that end I would have spoken to Scott, Bruce and Dan and told them "Look, you hired because of the offense I ran in Cinci. I think Kirk/Colt and the weapons we have we can have a very good offense. I thought Robert could be a fit in the offense I intend to run but I was wrong*; with Robert I cannot run my offense. But we have a chance here to move forward and have a very successful offense with Kirk/Colt."

Now if I was the HC I would start Griffin. 100%. But I would have taken a completely different approach then Jay and this franchise took. We would not be running a West Coast Offense variant. We would be in year 2 of a [B][I][U]spread[/U][/I][/B] zone read offense.

*I don't believe Jay every really gave it a chance but that is beside the point

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

[quote=30gut;1117341]Griffin may very well be done as the starting QB here sooner rather then later. And personally I think its a certainty at some point.

[B][SIZE="4"]BUT[/SIZE][/B]its not going (knowing this staff 'should not' is probably more accurate) to stem from his play in the Lions game. [B]Using the Lions game as referendum on Griffin is the popular groupthink overreaction. But to me it appears to be based more on perception/emotion more then actual football. The general rush from some fans/media to point to this "game" as proof of their negative belief is imo clearly out of balance.[/B]

I mean seriously, a referendum after 5 pass attempts? Never mind the game situations ([url=http://www.nfl.com/videos/washington-redskins/0ap3000000514192/Kurt-Warner-diagnoses-why-RGIII-is-struggling]Kurt Warner diagnoses why Washington Redskins quarterback Robert Griffin III is struggling - NFL Videos[/url]) but 5 passes and Griffin is done? C'mon, lets be serious.[/quote]

Good point.

It's definitely knee-jerk time right now. I still say the Detroit game was mostly on the OL and it's hard to take much real value from it. Yes the fumbles are 100% on him, but when you're getting hit repeatedly in 3 seconds or less, that's the OL's problem.

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

After only 9 career NFL starts for KC, I am not ready to say either RG3 or start over with all new QB'S. Is that what you are saying? Frankly I have seen enough of RG3, he is not going to be a pro style offense QB. It is time to give a long look at KC worh the starters.

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

the problem is that the OL vs the lions is probably close to what the OL will be vs the dolphiins (from a performance perspective). I'm pretty sure the org isn't going to pull him before game 4 barring injury, but i much rather we pull griffin for performance, since that'll give us 16mill more to work with next year.

maybe he still turns it around, but i haven't seen any improvement yet. he has on okay OL, and great rb/wrs. I'd like to see more production and less terrible decisions (like trying to scramble on 3rd and 16 near your own goal line).

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

Having Trent in there makes a big difference. Willie Smith is trash.

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

He is thinking way too much post snap, it's gonna get him injured big time.

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

[quote=Mattyk;1117350]Having Trent in there makes a big difference. Willie Smith is trash.[/quote]No doubt. Trent's agent was probably the happiest dude on earth after the Lions game.

I still don't understand the rationale for starting Willie Smith in the first place. I'm sure that's a mistake the coaches Jay, Scott and Callahan regret in retrospect.

Willie Smith had 1 start last year. Compton, Morgan Moses both had more starts then him. For as much as OL coaches preach versatility I was wondering why Moses, Scherff and Compton weren't being developed as back-up at other spots along the OL. (even before the Lions game) Imo Scherff should be looked at 2nd or 3rd unit RT. Moses at 2nd unit LT. And Compton at both 2nd/3rd unit RT/LT. But that's just me I guess.

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

Gotta agree with Schneed--pretty clear we don't have a QB, barring some miracle transformation where RGIII learns or KC suddenly doesn't throw picks. I personally don't think Colt has the tools to begin with, but he's got heart, no doubt.

From a GM perspective you give RGIII as much rope as you can, I think. Hell, he's got some skills--he won the Heisman. KC will get his shot--maybe he'll be able to minimize the TOs, in which case he may do well. If not, sure, colt. But in the grand scheme QB is high on the list of a big multi-year rebuild. I don't think this is a surprise to McL. He can watch film as well as anyone. It's gonna be a while--that's the facts.

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

By appearance, we have 3 guys competing for a BU roll as none seem to be able to carry the day....
So, as has been iterated, I am sure SM is looking to the next off season for.....QB

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

[quote=30gut;1117341]Using the Lions game as referendum on Griffin is the popular groupthink overreaction. But to me it appears to be based more on perception/emotion more then actual football. The general rush from some fans/media to point to this "game" as proof of their negative belief is imo clearly out of balance.[/quote]

I don't think the Lions game proved anything about RGIII; however, I also don't think he's a fit for this offense. Something has to change for him to be successful here. By that, I mean either the offense or the HC (if the HC doesn't change the offense to feature Robert's strengths as a player).

Something in the back of my mind keeps telling me that the offense we run in the regular season will be a surprise to fans and opponents alike. It will take better advantage of the things that Robert does well. Or I could be just kidding myself.

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

I dont think it matters how could Griffin can be.
Hes going to get hurt soon enough and I wont be surprised if Cousins plays most of the season.
I'm already looking at QBs for next years draft.......

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

[QUOTE=KI Skins Fan;1117362]I don't think the Lions game proved anything about RGIII; however, I also don't think he's a fit for this offense. Something has to change for him to be successful here. By that, I mean either the offense or the HC (if the HC doesn't change the offense to feature Robert's strengths as a player).

[B]Something in the back of my mind keeps telling me that the offense we run in the regular season will be a surprise to fans and opponents alike. It will take better advantage of the things that Robert does well. Or I could be just kidding myself.[/B][/QUOTE]

I have played that mental game all the way back to 2006 with JGibbs and Al Saunders. I remember going to the opener against Minnesota thinking we were going to come out and shock the Vikings.

I don't have it in me to believe that the Skins have that type of creativity in them anymore. What we are is all on display. And sadly that ain't much.

Sent from my S6 Edge

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1117362]It will take better advantage of the things that Robert does well.[/quote]

Which is what?

He would have to improve to run read option as well as Nick Foles did last year.

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

Seen some posts about Cooley's analysis. Here is the analysis of the analysis:

[url]https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dc-sports-bog/wp/2015/08/23/chris-cooley-film-shows-griffin-bears-some-responsibility-for-thursday-drubbing/[/url]

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

I know Gruden went on record before the injury saying that only injury would change their starting QB, not performance or ineffectiveness...But i wonder if that is someone who was relaying that to Gruden to say. I wonder deep down if Gruden really thinks RG3 can win or is he just hoping somehow that they find a way to win with him so he can keep his job....

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;1117369][B]I know Gruden went on record before the injury saying that only injury would change their starting QB, not performance or ineffectiveness[/B]...But i wonder if that is someone who was relaying that to Gruden to say. I wonder deep down if Gruden really thinks RG3 can win or is he just hoping somehow that they find a way to win with him so he can keep his job....[/quote]

Are you sure about that? That just doesn't sound reasonable to me.

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

[quote=DYoungJelly;1117368]Seen some posts about Cooley's analysis. Here is the analysis of the analysis:

[url]https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dc-sports-bog/wp/2015/08/23/chris-cooley-film-shows-griffin-bears-some-responsibility-for-thursday-drubbing/[/url][/quote]

I feel vindicated, as I said before Robert has not mastered the art of side stepping, in the pocket he has zero mobility. Defensive coordinators have caught up with athletic quarterbacks and worse than that the athleticism Robert relied on in his rookie season is long gone because of injuries. It is real simple, he either evolves and acquires skills he never needed or used before or
he is done. So far he has shown zero ability to re-invent himself.

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

[quote=DYoungJelly;1117367]Which is what?

He would have to improve to run read option as well as Nick Foles did last year.[/quote]Not sure if serious.

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

[quote=DYoungJelly;1117368]Seen some posts about Cooley's analysis. Here is the analysis of the analysis:

[url]https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dc-sports-bog/wp/2015/08/23/chris-cooley-film-shows-griffin-bears-some-responsibility-for-thursday-drubbing/[/url][/quote]Cooley's breakdown have an odd defensive take, especially since Cooley's first take was the OL didn't good enough. Now his take seems like Griffin should have moved in the pocket like superman and everything would have been fine.

And that stuff about not using bootlegs vs Lions because of wide 9? Kirk and Colt ran multiple bootlegs.

Thankfully Gruden seems more aware of the pass protection and the gameplan/playcallilng issues with the 1st unit. (hint don't expect a dude Willie Smith that only started 1 game at OT last year to be an adequate fill in for Trent Williams).

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

[quote=30gut;1117380]Cooley's breakdown have an odd defensive take, especially since Cooley's first take was the OL didn't good enough. Now his take seems like Griffin should have moved in the pocket like superman and everything would have been fine.

And that stuff about not using bootlegs vs Lions because of wide 9? Kirk and Colt ran multiple bootlegs.

Thankfully Gruden seems more aware of the pass protection and the gameplan/playcallilng issues with the 1st unit. (hint don't expect a dude Willie Smith that only started 1 game at OT last year to be an adequate fill in for Trent Williams).[/quote]

I'm no RGIII apologist, but people are starting to get ridiculous in their criticisms of his play. There is a major point and a minor point here. The major point is that the line played very poorly in pass protection. They gave Robert no chance on some plays and little chance on some others. The minor point is that on some plays Robert could have bought a little more time if he had moved better in the pocket.

To review:

Major Point: [B]The line sucked![/B]

Minor Point: RGIII could have helped himself a little on some plays.

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

It didnt seem like KC and CM had as much O Line issues as RG but they seem to get the ball out faster. It seems to me that RG is lost in the pocket. He has no pocket presence and he seems to struggle with where he should go with the ball. Hopefully this will improve but I'm not betting on it.

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

It does seem like that to me as well. It also seems to me that the Offense as a whole plays better....the moment Robert leaves the game.
Robert must.....scutch over a little here, scutch over a little there in the pocket area when some room is available to buy time and.....Try to minimize some of the hits he takes. He stands there like a tree and gets...spanked! SHIT Robert

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

it was the same ol that was blocking for McCoy and cousins..i will give it against some backups..that is why i would love to see Cousins against starters..and RGlll against backups..would that not be more of a real test of where they are at at qb??

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

[quote=rocnrik;1117394]it was the same ol that was blocking for McCoy and cousins..i will give it against some backups..that is why i would love to see Cousins against starters..and RGlll against backups..would that not be more of a real test of where they are at at qb??[/quote]

You and I both know that ain't gonna happen. RGIII has been annointed from above to be the starter and apparently fair competition is not to be allowed.

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

I will start this comment by saying that I'm not an RG3 apologist, I have very little faith in him and any of the QBs on our team. I also believe that Scot McC is just using these guys to buy time until he can get a QB of his choosing.

For those of you who keep focusing on RG3, here's what a struggling QB looks like behind a good o-line:

[url]https://vine.co/v/eDQHUAOnuXA[/url]

If the team wants to keep RG3 as their starting QB, I think they need to get him better protection than what he had last week. I highly doubt Cousins or McCoy would have been any successful under the same circumstances. And yes, RG3 struggled in the last series with the second team, but I think at this point he would have struggled against a defense made up of all of us given the beating he had taken.

I was also surprised to see McCoy running a read-option play and not RG3. I'm done with this team wanting to make RG3 a pocket QB. I remember last year in the first couple of plays before he got hurt in the Jacksonville game, RG3 looked much better since he was running the read-option and other plays that were a better fit for his skills.

Finally, I don't want to see three straight passing series in the preseason or regular season with any QB. If we're going to win any games, we need to limit the passing game and focus more on the running game period.

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

A few days old but good stuff on SM......

[url=http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/25272176/inside-football-dont-expect-same-soft-redskins-under-new-gm-mccloughan]Inside Football: How Scot McCloughan plans to make the Redskins nasty - CBSSports.com[/url]

The Redskins staff was pretty pleased overall with what it got from Robert Griffin III in the opener at Cleveland. If not for a drop by Pierre Garcon and another instance where a receiver ran the wrong route down the sideline, Griffin would've been 7-for-8 with over 100 yards and a touchdown. He's going to be given a good chunk of the season to show what he can do regardless, and trust me, while RG3 was named the starter, Kirk Cousins, who McCloughan really liked out of college, isn't looking at it as a done deal and he'll push as much as he can.

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

I don't blame RG for that concussion at all. The media/league/fans have no idea what theyre talking about. Im at my fantasy draft yesterday with the 21 Taylor on so I get hit with all the RG3 talk. "I heard theyre getting rid of him"... WHY? because he had a concussion behind a struggling OL missing Trent Williams to start? We cant feed into what the media and other fans/teams/ect have to say. They hate RG3 and they hate us. its preseason week 3. IMO RG has looked sharp. It just so happened the twisted "best qb in the league" comments were made, then the injury and everyone LOVED that. don't feed into it fellas use your own two eyes.

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

[quote=rocnrik;1117394]it was the same ol that was blocking for McCoy and cousins..i will give it against some backups..that is why i would love to see Cousins against starters..and RGlll against backups..would that not be more of a real test of where they are at at qb??[/quote]

cousins is so inconsistent dude. get off the cousins wagon. if RG cant stay healthy and perform we wont be any good. cousins is a career backup mark my words. highly inconsistent. we learned last year vs NYG he doesn't make reads he just slings to the primary of jays playcall dude. so some games he may sling for 400 but hes just dropping and throwing with no read. take a look at that, I almost never see him work thru his progression at all.

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1117397]

For those of you who keep focusing on RG3, here's what a struggling QB looks like behind a good o-line:

[url]https://vine.co/v/eDQHUAOnuXA[/url]

.[/quote]

At least Tebow turned and took a very minimal hit instead of #10 who looks like a guy standing on the train tracks trying to commit suicide.

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

[quote=Buffalo Bob;1117404]At least Tebow turned and took a very minimal hit instead of #10 who looks like a guy standing on the train tracks trying to commit suicide.[/quote]

:lol:

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

[QUOTE=Ruhskins;1117397]I will start this comment by saying that I'm not an RG3 apologist, I have very little faith in him and any of the QBs on our team. I also believe that Scot McC is just using these guys to buy time until he can get a QB of his choosing.

For those of you who keep focusing on RG3, here's what a struggling QB looks like behind a good o-line:

[url]https://vine.co/v/eDQHUAOnuXA[/url]

WOW!

Yeah, I've missed both preseason games, and when I read everyone's comments this is what I pictured. . . then I watched the highlights. He had no protection.

I don't know, maybe some of it his his "fault," but I imagine if this is an area that he needs to improve on, it must be pretty tough to do that when you get lit up every play after 3 seconds.

I'm just hoping our run game can get going early this season and take some pressure off of RG3 so that we stand some chance of getting something out of him.

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

Anybody hear M Shanny on Mike n Mike this morning.Took some subtle shots at Gruden and RG3.
He said a coach needs to fit their offense to the talents of the player,something Jay has not been doing with Griff.
On Griff he said dude didnt even have a playbook in college,after getting him in they knew he was going to need some time to develop into a drop back passer,hence the pistol was born.
Then the 2nd yr Griff wanted to be a drop back passer,but Shanny and other coaches thought he wasnt ready for that.And we see how that turned out.

So is Jay not fitting his off to fit Griff because Griff thinks he's a dropback passer? That would help explain why Colt and Cousins are running the pistol and Griff isnt.
Or is Jay just running those plays to give Griff the practice he needs to try and develop? Who knows? Only they know the inside dynamics of whats happening there.

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

The conspiracy theory talk is annoying.

Its annoying because it renders real questions about coaching mistakes void. I have no idea what the reasons are for some the decisions or mistakes. But I can see and discuss what is happening on the field, I can see the football results. Furthermore I'm insulted as a fan to hear from Cooley and others create a straw man (maybe unintentional) about the differences in playcalling. I submit that anyone that has been watching the preseasons games and thinks the plays/playcalling was the same is either blind or dishonest. NOW let me be clear observing different plays/playcalling IS NOT THE SAME THING AS SAYING GRUDEN IS RUNNING A DIFFERENT OFFENSE. AND there are logical, plausible reasons for the differences in playcalling BUT there are clear differences. Cooley and McVay are friends and Cooley has admitted that he and Scott talk. Imho its not out of the realm to think Cooley asked Scott about what he thinks happened and of course Scott is gonna defend the coaching. Cooley makes it seems that the pass protection was adequate/normal and that all Griffin had to do was step this way and step that way or made this check. By that logic we don't need to sign Trent all a QB has to do is avoid any pressure that occurs when an OL gets beat at the snap. For that matter I'm not sure why any team even spends money on the OL when your QB is supposed to evade any pressure whenever an OL gets beat. Jokes aside they made a mistake thinking Willie Smith was ready to start and provide adequate protection without help, that was a coaching mistake.

Now more differences in plays/playcalling. Cooley said that you can't bootleg the Lions because of their 43 defense but Colt&Kirk ran multiple bootlegs but with Griffin none? This directly disputes Cooley's claim that you can't boot against the Lions, maybe he forgot but the other QBs did boot. There has also been read-option (and please don't give me the Griffin doesn't want to do it, lest I show youtube video of Griffin less then 8 months removed from knee surgery running read-option in the 2013 season). There has also been formation variation i.e. using spread shotgun on 1st down and running from it etc. Those are distinct, obvious, clear differences in playcalling. And I'm certain there are/were good reasons in the coaches eyes for those differences..e.g. field position, personnel, wanting to work on something specific with different personnel etc. Noticing different playcalling is not the same as claiming Gruden is 'running a different offense' in an attempt to sabotage. That is nothing more then a semantics bait and switch tactic. Sorry had to get that off my chest.

Jay in his most recent press conferences seems to have recognized that yes there were playcalling/coaching, pass protection issues/mistakes with the 1st unit offense. (They might want to start by never, ever, ever thinking that you Willie Smith can just sub-in for Trent without changes to the offense even in preseason). Maybe Jay is just blowing smoke but product on the field matches with his comments.


But, lets address the whole 'sabotage' issue in a larger scope.

Is reluctance or inability on a coaches part to adapt or cater their scheme sabotage or just poor coaching?

Does it look to you like Jay is adapting his scheme?

Also, lets be real for a second. We've heard Jay's comments about Griffin last year? We know from reports and insiders that Jay going back to last training camp didn't believe in/want Griffin to be his QB. We heard that Jay, the HC, lobbied to bench 'his' QB by showing film to the owner.

As far as I can see this preseason has shown a combination of reluctance/inability on the coaching staff to adapt their system to their starter ostensible start QB mixed with poor playing with the 1st unit and one tragic personnel decision (Willie Smith starting at LT).

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

Since Mike S is back trying to re-write history about Griffin and the read-option 2013:

[YT]watch?v=zJHxYM8GDTs[/YT]