Re: Redskins Free Agency Thread
 

Way too early prediction... Flowers won't make the team

Re: Redskins Free Agency Thread
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;1220441]Still terrible. Cap hit of $3.0M if he's on the team. If he plays a lot then it goes up to $4.0M.



One of the worst Redskins moves I can remember.[/QUOTE]Agree. Cannot wait to hear the spin on the pod.



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Re: Redskins Free Agency Thread
 

[quote=MTK;1220437]AP?


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I will give you that one as I didn't completely explain what I meant. I was meaning to imply players than never amounted to anything before being taken in by the Redskins. AP was cast aside due to age and recent play on a bad team. Flowers had the under performing "bust" label on him.

Re: Redskins Free Agency Thread
 

[quote=MTK;1220442]Way too early prediction... Flowers won't make the team[/quote]

Quite possible. And that would suck, because $1.5M of this deal is guaranteed. $1.0M was given at signing, and $500K of the salary is guaranteed.

So he could get cut and cost us $1.5M on the cap.

Even the most optimistic of Skins fans have to hate this deal. It's one of the worst I've seen.

Re: Redskins Free Agency Thread
 

Let's remember that we do have 4 picks in the first 3 rounds. Hopefully we can nail this draft and get 3 quality starters with those picks. LG, pass rusher and a safety

Also, Cam Sims I think will push Docston. He was really having an outstanding preseason last year. At 6'5 he could be the breakout player we need. Just wonder why he didn't have more production at Bama.

Re: Redskins Free Agency Thread
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;1220446]Also, Cam Sims I think will push Docston. He was really having an outstanding preseason last year. At 6'5 he could be the breakout player we need. Just wonder why he didn't have more production at Bama.[/QUOTE]

I am not 100% sure but I think I remember reading an article explaining that Alabama's offense don't rely on WRs as much as some offenses do.

Re: Redskins Free Agency Thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1220439]Its such a weird strategy....Make Collins the highest paid safety with one of the biggest contracts in Free agency...and then refuse to spend anymore money to address long standing issues on the team...WR, Guard, pass rusher...[/quote]

We don't know that they haven't tried to address other areas, and just not been able to make the deal. We know they were in the mix for Antonio Brown...certainly reasonable to think that without being the highest bidder, no one WANTS to come here unless they have no other options...such as Flowers.

Re: Redskins Free Agency Thread
 

Charlotte IOL Nate Davis has private visits with the following: #Titans, #Bills, #Rams, #Vikings, #Redskins & #Falcons. Popular guy, and with good reason. Helluva player.

Re: Redskins Free Agency Thread
 

[quote=MTK;1220442]Way too early prediction... Flowers won't make the team[/quote]

Ok, I'll play.

My way too early prediction: Flowers not only makes the team, but starts more than 10 games at left guard.

He's big, strong, and athletic, he no longer has the pressure of being the 9th overall pick, and he's likely more motivated now than ever. He has trouble in space, but that will be mitigated working between Chase and Trent. He now has one of the best O-line coaches in the league.

We can all agree that he has been a dud at LT, but maybe Bill can turn him into the next Mark May or Brandon Scherff.

If not, the team isn't out a whole lot.

Someone should start a poll for this, whether he ultimately makes the team and the over/under for how many games he starts.

Re: Redskins Free Agency Thread
 

[quote=Schneed10;1220445]Quite possible. And that would suck, because $1.5M of this deal is guaranteed. $1.0M was given at signing, and $500K of the salary is guaranteed.

So he could get cut and cost us $1.5M on the cap.

Even the most optimistic of Skins fans have to hate this deal. It's one of the worst I've seen.[/quote]

Agreed, we could've kept a proven swing tackle for close to that price:

[url]https://overthecap.com/player/ty-nsekhe/1356/[/url]

Re: Redskins Free Agency Thread
 

Would anybody here have any confidence whatsoever that Flowers could hold his own if he had to come into the game as a reserve?

They could've signed him to vet min and I'd still be mad for wasting a roster spot.

Re: Redskins Free Agency Thread
 

[quote=FrenchSkin;1220458]Agreed, we could've kept a proven swing tackle for close to that price:

[url]https://overthecap.com/player/ty-nsekhe/1356/[/url][/quote]

I agree and it is a great point.
However all the talk points to moving Flowers to guard where there is a huge Grand Canyon hole at LG. This is a sink or swim moment for this front Office. Either he adapts to guard and is a decent guard or he sucks and Allen will have another black eye. He is running out of eyes.

Re: Redskins Free Agency Thread
 

[QUOTE=Defensewins;1220460]I agree and it is a great point.

However all the talk points to moving Flowers to guard where there is a huge Grand Canyon hole at LG. This is a sink or swim moment for this front Office. Either he adapts to guard and is a decent guard or he sucks and Allen will have another black eye. He is running out of eyes.[/QUOTE]Also, I'm pretty sure he is being added for depth at guard. I believe this team's starting left guard will come from the draft.

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Redskins Free Agency Thread
 

[QUOTE=Chief X_Phackter;1220457]Ok, I'll play.

My way too early prediction: Flowers not only makes the team, but starts more than 10 games at left guard.

He's big, strong, and athletic, he no longer has the pressure of being the 9th overall pick, and he's likely more motivated now than ever. He has trouble in space, but that will be mitigated working between Chase and Trent. He now has one of the best O-line coaches in the league.

We can all agree that he has been a dud at LT, but maybe Bill can turn him into the next Mark May or Brandon Scherff.

If not, the team isn't out a whole lot.

Someone should start a poll for this, whether he ultimately makes the team and the over/under for how many games he starts.[/QUOTE]



Mark May or Scherff he will never be BUT i agree he starts the majority of the year at lg. Also agree he has less pressure, and more motivation now. He is still very young. He isn’t going to become an all pro guard or even a good one imo but, he can become a serviceable one.

Re: Redskins Free Agency Thread
 

[quote=mooby;1220459]Would anybody here have any confidence whatsoever that Flowers could hold his own if he had to come into the game as a reserve?

They could've signed him to vet min and I'd still be mad for wasting a roster spot.[/quote]

No confidence whatsoever.

He's straight trash.

Slow as shit, bad footwork, gets beat with leverage too often, bad hands (which will hurt him at guard).

Re: Redskins Free Agency Thread
 

The draft will HOPEFULLY get us an eventual starter...

Re: Redskins Free Agency Thread
 

Cowboys give Randell Cobb 1 year 5 mil...we give flowers 1 year 4 mill.

It’s pretty hilarious how bad Bruce is at this shit. Yes Cobb is incentive laden like flowers.

Re: Redskins Free Agency Thread
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1220461]Also, I'm pretty sure he is being added for depth at guard. I believe this team's starting left guard will come from the draft.

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It maybe true we might draft a starting LG, but I do not have enough confidence in our FO to do it.
I think the signing of Flowers, a 24-25 year old O-Lineman that was picked #9 overall in the 2015 draft and signed a million dollar contract with us, is the way for this crazy FO to justify - we addressed LG and now we can draft a QB, WR, TE or OLB with our first two picks.
It is doubtful we will find a [B]2019 starting caliber[/B] LG in the fourth round or later. It will take time to develop a guard that is drafted that late.

I must admit I have a small amount of interest to see how Flowers plays at guard. Is there a chance, as small as it might be, that Flowers might find a home at Guard, gain some confidence and develop?
I remember in our awesome 1981 draft class, we drafted Outland winner OT Mark May 1st round, but he failed at OT as a rookie. He could not pass protect to save his life. It was a big fail. So Bugel moved him to RG and he did well and developed into a good starter at guard. Could Flowers be a good Guard?

Re: Redskins Free Agency Thread
 

[quote=Defensewins;1220466]It maybe true we might draft a starting LG, but I do not have enough confidence in our FO to do it.
I think the signing of Flowers, a 24-25 year old O-Lineman that was picked #9 overall in the 2015 draft and signed a million dollar contract with us, is the way for this crazy FO to justify - we addressed LG and now we can draft a QB, WR, TE or OLB with our first two picks.
It is doubtful we will find a [B]2019 starting caliber[/B] LG in the fourth round or later. It will take time to develop a guard that is drafted that late.

I must admit I have a small amount of interest to see how Flowers plays at guard. Is there a chance, as small as it might be, that Flowers might find a home at Guard, gain some confidence and develop?
I remember in our awesome 1981 draft class, we drafted Outland winner OT Mark May 1st round, but he failed at OT as a rookie. He could not pass protect to save his life. It was a big fail. So Bugel moved him to RG and he did well and developed into a good starter at guard. Could Flowers be a good Guard?

[/quote]

Good point. Everyone forgets Scherff was drafted as a Tackle and he had to be moved to guard too. It is worth a $1.5 million dollar gamble to see if Flowers can make the conversion. I am sure Coach Callahan saw some potential before they decided to sign him.

Re: Redskins Free Agency Thread
 

Junior Gallette is practically begging the skins for a chance. I would give it a shot, we need pass rushers

Re: Redskins Free Agency Thread
 

[QUOTE=skinsfaninok;1220478]Junior Gallette is practically begging the skins for a chance. I would give it a shot, we need pass rushers[/QUOTE]



Hard to disagree. He wasn’t a terrible for us last time. And he’s motivated. Vet min?


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Re: Redskins Free Agency Thread
 

I’d absolutely get JG back in here


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Re: Redskins Free Agency Thread
 

[quote=FrenchSkin;1220458]Agreed, we could've kept a proven swing tackle for close to that price:

[url]https://overthecap.com/player/ty-nsekhe/1356/[/url][/quote]

Close to that price? Nseke's over 3 times as expensive... and 10 years older.

Re: Redskins Free Agency Thread
 

[quote=MTK;1220480]I’d absolutely get JG back in here


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With Smith gone, I really don't see why JG hasn't been signed. Doesn't make sense

Re: Redskins Free Agency Thread
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;1220481]Close to that price? Nseke's over 3 times as expensive... and 10 years older.[/quote]

What kind of Bruce Allen math is this? Nsekhe counts $4.8M against the Bills cap in 2019, Flowers counts $3.2M against ours.

It's irrelevant because Nsekhe never would have signed here even if we matched the Bills contract, because he wants a chance to play, not sit behind Trent and Moses.

But did Bruce Allen teach you 3rd grade math?

Re: Redskins Free Agency Thread
 

Overall, I am extremely happy with every single move the skins have made so far this offseason. We had gaping holes at QB, needed 1 if not 2 new starting safeties, a CB, an edge rusher, RB, offensive line, and WR.

So far, we have added a STUD Safety, a SOLID RB, and serviceable players at CB, and LG (backup T), and QB. (We also resigned Quick and one of last years linemen, but i don't see either as likely to make the roster.) Before the draft, we will likely some additional pieces.

Basically, I'm happy because i think we've positioned ourselves to take BPA in the first few rounds of the draft. For example, we don't need to reach for a QB in the first two rounds if we don't think the ones available at our picks are of good value, because we can get by with Colt, Keenum, and a later round QB. If we don't sign an edge rusher or receiver before the draft, we may feel some pressure to reach for those, but considering this draft is full of both those positions in the first two rounds, i don't think we'd really be reaching for either position.

Re: Redskins Free Agency Thread
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1220482]With Smith gone, I really don't see why JG hasn't been signed. Doesn't make sense[/quote]

Of course it does, he was a Scott Mc. player, Bruce is petty enough to hold that grudge

Re: Redskins Free Agency Thread
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;1220484]Overall, I am extremely happy with every single move the skins have made so far this offseason. We had gaping holes at QB, needed 1 if not 2 new starting safeties, a CB, an edge rusher, RB, offensive line, and WR.

So far, we have added a STUD Safety, a SOLID RB, and serviceable players at CB, and LG (backup T), and QB. (We also resigned Quick and one of last years linemen, but i don't see either as likely to make the roster.) Before the draft, we will likely some additional pieces.

Basically, I'm happy because i think we've positioned ourselves to take BPA in the first few rounds of the draft. For example, we don't need to reach for a QB in the first two rounds if we don't think the ones available at our picks are of good value, because we can get by with Colt, Keenum, and a later round QB. If we don't sign an edge rusher or receiver before the draft, we may feel some pressure to reach for those, but considering this draft is full of both those positions in the first two rounds, i don't think we'd really be reaching for either position.[/quote]


I agree with QB being the exception, I disagree that we are ok with Colt/Case. To be honest if that is even a competition we are doomed. Keenum should be QB1 as of today by a mile. Colt is not a starting QB, I don't see why we all can't agree on this. Case is good enough to get 5-6 wins, unless Guice becomes the next Zeke in 2019, I don't see this offense scoring a ton.

Re: Redskins Free Agency Thread
 

[quote=EdmundDorf;1220485]Of course it does, he was a Scott Mc. player, Bruce is petty enough to hold that grudge[/quote]

That is not a logical conclusion. MC was gone last year. We offered him a 2 year, 10M contract and he declined to sign it hoping he could get a better deal elsewhere. Then 31 other teams, many of whom need edge rushers, declined to make him an offer and he missed the entire 2018 season.

Re: Redskins Free Agency Thread
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1220486] Colt is not a starting QB.[/quote]

He is if you want to go 2-14 and get first overall pick in 2020. Seriously, on a lot of teams he would be a 3rd team QB.

Re: Redskins Free Agency Thread
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1220486]I agree with QB being the exception, I disagree that we are ok with Colt/Case. To be honest if that is even a competition we are doomed. Keenum should be QB1 as of today by a mile. Colt is not a starting QB, I don't see why we all can't agree on this. Case is good enough to get 5-6 wins, unless Guice becomes the next Zeke in 2019, I don't see this offense scoring a ton.[/quote]

My thought is that if we don't upgrade and went with Colt/Case, it would mean we've focused on upgrading other areas of our team.

Our defense was solid for the majority of last year (although we fell apart near the end and i'm still not sure why). Our defensive line is the strength of our team. Our secondary and line backing corps have been upgraded significantly with the additions of Collins and Foster. If we were, for example, to get an elite pass rusher with our first round pick and some solid DB/LB pickups in the 2nd and 3rd round, our defense could be great.

We could afford to continue running a conservative offense lead by AP and Guice pounding the rock. Old school football. Focus on ball security and control the time of possession.

Re: Redskins Free Agency Thread
 

[quote=Buffalo Bob;1220488]He is if you want to go 2-14 and get first overall pick in 2020. Seriously, on a lot of teams he would be a 3rd team QB.[/quote]

Disagree. Colt is too old to be a 3rd string QB.

Re: Redskins Free Agency Thread
 

[quote=Schneed10;1220483]What kind of Bruce Allen math is this? Nsekhe counts $4.8M against the Bills cap in 2019, Flowers counts $3.2M against ours.

[B]It's irrelevant because Nsekhe never would have signed here even if we matched the Bills contract, because he wants a chance to play, not sit behind Trent and Moses.[/B]

But did Bruce Allen teach you 3rd grade math?[/quote]

True.

IMO Nsekhe's contract just highlights how idiotic spending 4M on Flowers is.

Re: Redskins Free Agency Thread
 

[quote=Buffalo Bob;1220488]He is if you want to go 2-14 and get first overall pick in 2020. [B]Seriously, on a lot of teams he would be a 3rd team QB[/B].[/quote]

Well yeah, unless you think he's the best backup in the league of course. So with that logic you could say that about a lot of guys.

Re: Redskins Free Agency Thread
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1220500]Disagree. Colt is too old to be a 3rd string QB.[/quote]

I am talking talent and ability wise and not considering age.

Re: Redskins Free Agency Thread
 

Frenchie mentioned Cooley's episode 53 and the breakdown of the 2nd down plays.

Cooley also touched on Rogers Cromartie and Flowers.

He said he didn't think Cromartie would help the team in the slightest.

On Flowers, he said he would love to see actual statistics but would guess he gave up more sacks than any other OL in the league. He hedged only a little and said he was athletic enough for a team to take a flyer on him with a high draft pick but was not complimentary at all.

For an actual team employee, this is as close as it comes to an actual roasting.

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Re: Redskins Free Agency Thread
 

[quote=DYoungJelly;1220524]Frenchie mentioned Cooley's episode 53 and the breakdown of the 2nd down plays.

Cooley also touched on Rogers Cromartie and Flowers.

He said he didn't think Cromartie would help the team in the slightest.

On Flowers, he said he would love to see actual statistics but would guess he gave up more sacks than any other OL in the league. He hedged only a little and said he was athletic enough for a team to take a flyer on him with a high draft pick but was not complimentary at all.

For an actual team employee, this is as close as it comes to an actual roasting.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk[/quote]

Ive been avoiding the podcast because I knew we would agree and more apathy would set in. These moves do nothing and seem predictably inconsistent. The fact we go ape shit with a Collins contract and meekly as well as cowardly approach the on going holes on the rosters is disheartening. I don't have any faith in this team and the leadership. zilch. Bruce is a fucking moron who should be fired.

Re: Redskins Free Agency Thread
 

[URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5JTt9VrHHc"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5JTt9VrHHc[/URL]

Throwback

Re: Redskins Free Agency Thread
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1220536][URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5JTt9VrHHc"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5JTt9VrHHc[/URL]

Throwback[/quote]

Who on the current Redskins roster would be a starter on that team?

Scherff over RC Thielmann and Hopkins over Zendejas are the only sure things IMO.

Re: Redskins Free Agency Thread
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;1220483]What kind of Bruce Allen math is this? Nsekhe counts $4.8M against the Bills cap in 2019, Flowers counts $3.2M against ours.



It's irrelevant because Nsekhe never would have signed here even if we matched the Bills contract, because he wants a chance to play, not sit behind Trent and Moses.



But did Bruce Allen teach you 3rd grade math?[/QUOTE]



Im so happy for you that you are really good at salary cap issues that you actually have nothing to do with, but I would rather just enjoy the game and not be a dick.