Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

... historically, you can't contend for a championship with a game manager unless you have a top defense with an elite impact defensive player.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

The Smith / Cousins comparison makes no sense to me. One is extremely conservative and tends to throw the ball away or tuck it and run. The other will hang in the pocket patiently and throw deep down the field.

The better comparison for Cousins is Andy Dalton. That still gets you to the same place - decent QB but not transcendent.

The teams playing in the AFC and NFC championships tell you all you need to know about the importance of a top notch QB.

Part of me thinks tagging and trading Cousins wouldn't be the worst thing. But the other part of me thinks he can still keep getting better. There's no reason to think we've seen his ceiling yet.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;1163016]The Smith / Cousins comparison makes no sense to me. One is extremely conservative and tends to throw the ball away or tuck it and run. The other will hang in the pocket patiently and throw deep down the field.



The better comparison for Cousins is Andy Dalton. That still gets you to the same place - decent QB but not transcendent.



The teams playing in the AFC and NFC championships tell you all you need to know about the importance of a top notch QB.



Part of me thinks tagging and trading Cousins wouldn't be the worst thing. But the other part of me thinks he can still keep getting better. There's no reason to think we've seen his ceiling yet.[/QUOTE]



I wouldn't say that there's no reason. There's more there than not. He's had more than enough development time and actual game experience to show what he's got. He's still got time, but what his contract demands say- he's saying he's already there.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

Kirk is no game manager

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[quote=Schneed10;1163016]The Smith / Cousins comparison makes no sense to me. One is extremely conservative and tends to throw the ball away or tuck it and run. The other will hang in the pocket patiently and throw deep down the field.

The better comparison for Cousins is Andy Dalton. That still gets you to the same place - decent QB but not transcendent.

The teams playing in the AFC and NFC championships tell you all you need to know about the importance of a top notch QB.

Part of me thinks tagging and trading Cousins wouldn't be the worst thing. But the other part of me thinks he can still keep getting better. There's no reason to think we've seen his ceiling yet.[/quote]

Your last paragraph is the crux of the whole decision. Is he going to get better or is he at his ceiling? If he's at his ceiling he's about to be drastically over paid and if we gamble that he won't get better and get rid of him then we're up a creek. If we franchise him again we have to draft another QB this year, because we could be in same position next year and you aren't paying him 30+ million.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[quote=warriorzpath;1163007]There's slight differences in strengths and weaknesses, but I think they're comparable. Biggest difference to me that makes Alex Smith better is being veteran savvy.

The most noticeable similarity that both share and that you describe Smith as, is they are great managers. And that's where their ceilings are.[/quote]

It took Alex Smith a long time to get that veteran savvy. Absolutely no reason to believe that Cousins won't have the same type of savvy as he matures in the NFL. That said, I don't see much of a comparison. I think Smith is a solid game manager, Cousins is a gunslinger and a potential playmaker.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1163022]Your last paragraph is the crux of the whole decision. Is he going to get better or is he at his ceiling? If he's at his ceiling he's about to be drastically over paid and if we gamble that he won't get better and get rid of him then we're up a creek. If we franchise him again we have to draft another QB this year, because we could be in same position next year and you aren't paying him 30+ million.[/quote]

And of course the variable in the equation that we can't account for is what is his contract demand?

I think it's worth it to sign him to a contract that hitches our wagon to him for 2 or 3 years. He's shown enough to warrant a few more years of commitment to find out if he can keep growing.

But if his demands include so much guaranteed money that we'd be committing for 4+ years before we'd be able to escape with cap relief, or if he's asking to take up just too darn much of the cap, then I'm good with franchising him.

And through all of it, whether we franchise him or whether we sign him, I would not stop drafting QBs. I wouldn't reach, and I wouldn't necessarily spend a 1st rounder. But if I'm McCloughan and I think I've got a Russell Wilson with my 3rd rounder, then I'm jumping on it.

Kirk might get even better and become a top notch QB. But if he's not I want to have options sooner rather than later.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[QUOTE=MTK;1163020]Kirk is no game manager[/QUOTE]



There's been at least one respected talent evaluator that called him that. So I think it's a valid opinion and discussion point.

Bucky Brooks:
Really, he (Cousins) is a "game manager" or "trailer" (quarterback carried by his team) on a league-wide scale.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[quote=warriorzpath;1163027]There's been at least one respected talent evaluator that called him that. So I think it's a valid opinion and discussion point.

Bucky Brooks:
Really, he (Cousins) is a "game manager" or "trailer" (quarterback carried by his team) on a league-wide scale.[/quote]

K well I for one don't understand that, because I think of game managers as QBs who keep it conservative and avoid making mistakes because their goal is to play complementary football. Cousins chucks it downfield. His fatal flaw in Week 17 was forcing a ball into a spot he shouldn't have.

So basically Bucky Brooks can eat shit and die because he has no idea what he's talking about.

Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;1163029]K well I for one don't understand that, because I think of game managers as QBs who keep it conservative and avoid making mistakes because their goal is to play complementary football. Cousins chucks it downfield. His fatal flaw in Week 17 was forcing a ball into a spot he shouldn't have.



So basically Bucky Brooks can eat shit and die because he has no idea what he's talking about.[/QUOTE]



I understand your opinion, but let's not make this out to be a nonsensical point. Actually, Cooley also said that Cousins played scared against the Giants- to give you another person's perspective of that game, which is relevant in this discussion because of the importance of the game.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

Yeah I'm definitely not saying Cousins should be immune to criticism; if you read my posts above you can see I'm caught somewhere between long term commitment if fair and trade him if you can get a good deal, like two first round picks.

I just take umbrage at the term game manager. That doesn't fit. He's a gunslinger. The question is can he become a gunslinger who comes through in the clutch as opposed to one that throws the big INT against the Giants in Week 17.

I definitely have questions about him, but I've seen enough to want to commit about three years to him.

Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;1163031]Yeah I'm definitely not saying Cousins should be immune to criticism; if you read my posts above you can see I'm caught somewhere between long term commitment if fair and trade him if you can get a good deal, like two first round picks.



I just take umbrage at the term game manager. That doesn't fit. He's a gunslinger. The question is can he become a gunslinger who comes through in the clutch as opposed to one that throws the big INT against the Giants in Week 17.



I definitely have questions about him, but I've seen enough to want to commit about three years to him.[/QUOTE]



I want the Redskins to sign him too but I think it's valid to be reluctant at his asking price. I still think it's the best thing to sign him even with what he's asking for but it's not without risk and drawbacks- considering that Cousins may not reach the expectations of his contract.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

A game manager isn't someone who throws for nearly 5000 yards and accounts for 30 TDs. Game manager fits well with someone like Alex Smith, but his game and Cousins are totally different.

Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[QUOTE=MTK;1163033]A game manager isn't someone who throws for nearly 5000 yards and accounts for 30 TDs. Game manager fits well with someone like Alex Smith, but his game and Cousins are totally different.[/QUOTE]



Well that's where Bucky Brooks's "trailer" comment comes into play. His production is elevated by others.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

I still don't see it. If you put Smith in this offense do you think he would put up the same numbers? I don't.