Am I missing something on Ramsey?
 

Besides the fact that Joe Gibbs likes to have 2 starting worthy QB on the roster, what has anyone seen to make them beleive Ramsey will be a Redskin in '06?

1. This coaching staff has been in place for 2 offseasons, both of which they used to get a QB.

2. Ramsey gets hurt (not injured) but doesn't sniff game action except in blowouts until Brunell gets injured in the NYG game.

3. The staff did all they could to get Brunell on the field at 65-70% against Philly in a must win game rather than start a 100% healthy Ramsey.

I know some people on the board think Ramsey will be a successful NFL QB (I admittedly am not one of them) but even if that's the case I don't see it happening here but I see a lot of people factoring him into the equation next year. What am I missing?

Re: Am I missing something on Ramsey?
 

I think Ramsey could be a success in the NFL. He's a gamer and has the arm. But he needs to work on his game management and reading of defenses.

I get the feeling that he will *not* be successful with the Skins, however. Better to trade him and let him start fresh. There's interest out there. Plus, what about Campbell???

GB

Re: Am I missing something on Ramsey?
 

I think a lot depends on Campbell's development. If Campbell isn't ready there is no way we jettison Ramsey (unless we pickup a FA QB). If Campbell looks decent, I think Ramsey's departure is a foregone conclusion. Unfortunately for us, only the coaching staff will know whether Campbell looks good enough to backup Brunell before they make the decision to get rid of or keep Ramsey.

Re: Am I missing something on Ramsey?
 

The first thing you stated is Gibbs likes to have two starting QB's. That fact alone will keep him here unless he realy pushes to get traded. I for one would love to see him back for another year and feel that he has learned more this year than he has in the past. Brunell got us into the playoffs but I just don't know if he has enough in his arm to last a full season. Maybe Gibbs saw that he was struggling but felt he had to stick with what got us to this point. If you look at the other teams who switched QB's they are both out of the playoffs.

Re: Am I missing something on Ramsey?
 

I think the coaching staff identified a few key flaws in Ramsey's game - flaws serious enough to relegate him to being Brunell's backup.

1. He tries to force too many throws.
2. Doesn't throw the ball away in high pressure situations (he's learning to do that from Brunell - an example being in the Giants game)
3. Not consistent at throwing in anticipation to hit a receiver in stride.
4. Can't throw slants because he puts too much heat on the ball.
5. Can't look off and throw short screen passes as well as Brunell.

A 65-70% healthy Brunell is a serviceable enough QB to manage the game for Gibbs. However, as we saw, if the running game ain't working, then a 65-80% healthy Brunell isn't going to win games for us.

That said, Ramsey could've improved substantially simply by watching Brunell this past season. We won't ever know until he goes to another team and lights it up.

Re: Am I missing something on Ramsey?
 

I reserve judgment on Ramsey. Sometimes he looks really good (ie the end of the last season). Other times he looks confused and second-rate. If the coaching staff decides to move on without him, I will trust that they think Campbell has developed enough to back Brunell up. Conversely, if they decide to keep Ramsey, I'll be happy (especially because I won't have to change my screen name).

Re: Am I missing something on Ramsey?
 

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]I reserve judgment on Ramsey. Sometimes he looks really good (ie the end of the last season). Other times he looks confused and second-rate. If the coaching staff decides to move on without him, I will trust that they think Campbell has developed enough to back Brunell up. Conversely, if they decide to keep Ramsey, I'll be happy (especially because I won't have to change my screen name).[/QUOTE]

I would have to assume that despite all the flaws in his game, Ramsey is far ahead of Campbell as far as being the #1 back up QB. It will be a coup if Gibbs and the front office manage to bring Ramsey back for next year.

Re: Am I missing something on Ramsey?
 

[QUOTE=hurrykaine]I would have to assume that despite all the flaws in his game, Ramsey is far ahead of Campbell as far as being the #1 back up QB. It will be a coup if Gibbs and the front office manage to bring Ramsey back for next year.[/QUOTE]

Your assumption that Ramsey is probably more developed than Campbell is probably correct. But, perhaps Campbell surprises people and looks better than anticipated.

Re: Am I missing something on Ramsey?
 

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]Your assumption that Ramsey is probably more developed than Campbell is probably correct. But, perhaps Campbell surprises people and looks better than anticipated.[/QUOTE]

It is just hard to believe that you draft someone in the first round just to have them sit around and be a #3 QB...you could get Tim Hasselbeck or Sage Rosenfels to do that. I also wonder if Ramsey's presence might stiffle Campbell's development. I'm not really sure exactly how all these things work, but if you are prepping Ramsey as the #2 QB isn't that taking time and reps away from Jason Campbell?

Re: Am I missing something on Ramsey?
 

I also think that Ramsey is in the final season of his rookie contract so he will likely push to be traded to a team where he can get a chance to start so he is not going into free agency without meaningful playing time in 2 years..

I think the #2 QB gets about 15% of the snaps during the season and the #3 QB runs the scout team. I am interested to hear where Campbell's development is at this stage.

Re: Am I missing something on Ramsey?
 

Believe it or not, I think they will get at least a 3rd rounder for Ramsey. You have to trade him to get some value and work on the cap number.

They made their bed with Campbell it is time to see what he can do.

Re: Am I missing something on Ramsey?
 

I think people have to remember that he doesn't even have a full season of starts under his bellt yet. Not to mention most of those starts were under Spurrier's kill the QB system. Against the Bears he passed for more yards in the 1st quarter (then he got hurt) then Brunnell did in rest of the game. Someone's assesment that he doesn't throw the ball away in tight situations is correct - but he is young and that will come in time. He throws the ball into tight coverage - he'll learn that too. Not that great at reading defenses - that comes with PT. He can't throw the quick slant b/c he puts too much zip on the ball- that is absurd, I know one QB who makes a name for himself breaking WRs fingers and he is on the way to the HOF (Favre). Just remember how long it took Favre, Aikman, Simms, Young, Hasselbeck, Delhomme to get going in their careers.

Ramsey appears on the outside to be a good young QB that needs to be in the same system for a few seasons and to grow. The Coaching staff must see something in practice that just turns them off. Hopefully they aren't making a mistake.

Re: Am I missing something on Ramsey?
 

As it stands right now, Ramsey is a capable backup and no one but the coaches know if he has improved enough to be a #1 QB. Obviously the coaches would like to keep him so it's up to Ramsey as to whether he stays or leaves. In all likelihood he'll request a trade.

Re: Am I missing something on Ramsey?
 

It all depends on how well Campbell is progressing.... Joe Thiesmann didn't start for years. Hopefully Campbell starts soon because Brunell isn't mobile really anymore. They need a mobile QB with a good arm. All that put together equals

#17 JASON CAMPBELL

Re: Am I missing something on Ramsey?
 

Ramsey's Future With Redskins Uncertain

[url="http://www.redskins.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=15036"]http://www.redskins.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=15036[/url]


It basically means goodbye Ramsey!

Re: Am I missing something on Ramsey?
 

This right here reinforces why I believe having Brunell start and letting the younger quarterbacks watch him play benefits BOTH Patrick Ramsey and Jason Campbell:

[I]Despite not playing, Ramsey said he learned last season by watching Brunell, a 13-year NFL veteran.

"I watched Mark do a lot of good things," Ramsey said. "He had some tough situations, against some good teams and some good defenses. He was in a lot of different situations, as far as having the lead and coming from behind.

"He did a great job all season long and I learned a lot from him as far as checking down and knowing when to run with the ball. Those are the things you know, but seeing him do things, it kind of reinforces the idea that you may have had in your head."[/I]

That, to me, is the proper way of bringing up a young, inexperienced quarterback in the NFL.

Re: Am I missing something on Ramsey?
 

[quote=Tuesday's Washington Post] Ramsey, selected 32nd overall in 2002, was here before Gibbs arrived; the coach immediately acquired veteran Mark Brunell and traded three picks, including a first-rounder, to move up and take Campbell in the first round last year. Ramsey started the season opener, was yanked after 19 minutes, and never started again. He has made just 24 starts in four years here, and, with one year left on his rookie contract, badly wants a chance to start again, while [b]Gibbs is enthusiastic that Campbell could play in 2006.

"I feel confident had Jason been thrust into things this year, I think he would have played and played well," Gibbs said. "We've seen a lot out of him, and now he needs to play. I was laughing when I told him, 'Okay, take the hat off and throw it away; you're ready to go to work to earn your money.' "[/b]

The New York Jets inquired about trading for Ramsey in September. Miami and Oakland are two other options for him, and several general managers said Ramsey likely would yield a mid-round pick in return. Ramsey would not commit to wanting to leave or return, and chose his words carefully, but is determined to play football next season.

"That was my concern when everything took place [being benched]," Ramsey said. "I'd like to play. If I'm going to develop as a quarterback in this league and play well, I think it needs to start at some point soon."

Gibbs said: "Patrick and I had a good talk and he felt a little bit like I did. Hey, the season's just over with and he hasn't had much chance to sit and think about anything and I haven't, either. So what we agreed to do is just continue to talk over these next few weeks."[/quote]
Sounds pretty clear that Ramsey will be elsewhere in '06..

Re: Am I missing something on Ramsey?
 

I really don't see how anyone can take from those quotes that Ramsey is in all liklyhood gone?

I think Patrick lightened up a bit as the season wore on, I also think that his decision isn't going to be based on any personel disagreements. It's going to be based on the fact that Patrick is at the point where he has to be given a legitamate opportunity to start, I believe that he would really like to stay here if he can start, but that's obviously the problem, does Gibbs stay with Brunell, and lose his backup? Or does he deciede it's patricks time to take over and keep Brunell around as a mentor, and a very solid backup? Although it makes the most sense to keep Patrick around for 1 more season, I don't believe at this point in his carreer it's fair to him to ask him to backup again, he's a player and he need's, and deserves an opportunity to play. Patrick has swallowed every bit of garbage that has been thrown at him since he arriver in DC, he deserves to be rewarded, either with the starters job with us, or via trade with another team.

And I also believe we can get at least a high #2 pick for Patrick, there's more GM's who believe in Ramsey, than we have shown here.

Re: Am I missing something on Ramsey?
 

[QUOTE=offiss]I really don't see how anyone can take from those quotes that Ramsey is in all liklyhood gone?

I think Patrick lightened up a bit as the season wore on, I also think that his decision isn't going to be based on any personel disagreements. It's going to be based on the fact that Patrick is at the point where he has to be given a legitamate opportunity to start, I believe that he would really like to stay here if he can start, but that's obviously the problem, does Gibbs stay with Brunell, and lose his backup? Or does he deciede it's patricks time to take over and keep Brunell around as a mentor, and a very solid backup? Although it makes the most sense to keep Patrick around for 1 more season, I don't believe at this point in his carreer it's fair to him to ask him to backup again, he's a player and he need's, and deserves an opportunity to play. Patrick has swallowed every bit of garbage that has been thrown at him since he arriver in DC, he deserves to be rewarded, either with the starters job with us, or via trade with another team.

And I also believe we can get at least a high #2 pick for Patrick, there's more GM's who believe in Ramsey, than we have shown here.[/QUOTE]
Please I pray that Gibbs doesn't keep that lame ass old QB and let Ramsey go.....

Re: Am I missing something on Ramsey?
 

Musgrave said he had 3 words about Campbell..."Accurate, accurate, accurate!!!" Spurrier RUINED Ramsey. He may stay due to lack of confedence in himself but i doubt it. I look for us to pick up a lame veteran QB and push Campbell if Brunell not having winning record by week 5.

Re: Am I missing something on Ramsey?
 

Gibbs seems to be really high on Campbell, seems that the writing is on the wall for Ramsey, I don't see him coming back here next year. Gibbs was obviously never a huge fan of his so I don't see things changing now.

Re: Am I missing something on Ramsey?
 

Last night during an interview, Gibbs had nothing but really good things to say about Campbell.

For a minute there, I almost thought he was speaking as if Campbell had just finished playing an actual game and Gibbs was literally assessing his performance.