Is Kicker Top Priority?
 

I am tired of the kickoffs barely making it past the 15 yard line. Starting FP is very important in todays nfl. We put our d at a disadvantage simply because Hall cant kickoff. I thought i had heard Frost could kickoff if need be but he must not be any better because we still had the master off the 55 yard kickoff playing for us. IMO we need to address this as much as our other needs simply because Gibbs likes to play the feild position game.thoughts???

Re: Is Kicker Top Priority?
 

Kicking should not be a top priority but it should be adressed I think we should bring in some competition for Hall and see how it goes from there. I think Hall's injury really affected him this year in terms of kickoffs he was pretty solid kicking field goals. But overall I think Hall will overcome his injury and be ready to go in 2006.

Re: Is Kicker Top Priority?
 

I didn't get to see the games Novack kicked in expcept for the end of the first Seahawks game (since the Falcons game ended early). However if I remember right he got blocked 2 or 3 times. Was that his fault or the protections fault?

Re: Is Kicker Top Priority?
 

[QUOTE=Dirtbag359]I didn't get to see the games Novack kicked in expcept for the end of the first Seahawks game (since the Falcons game ended early). However if I remember right he got blocked 2 or 3 times. Was that his fault or the protections fault?[/QUOTE]

I believe his kicks were coming out low which resulted in those couple blocks. If he works on his form a little bit to improve the height of his kicks I think we should give him another loook.

Re: Is Kicker Top Priority?
 

I realize that in college kickoffs are from the 35 and not the 30, but why is it that nearly every Division 1 kicker I see regularly boots the ball to or beyond the goaline and the Redskins as a professional team have not had anyone who could get it to the 5 since Lohmiller? Possibilities:

1. College uses a different ball.
2. Shorter kickoffs are on purpose because they are easier to cover.

Just wondering if anyone else had any thoughts?

Re: Is Kicker Top Priority?
 

I am tired of these punk kickers getting hurt. All you do is KICK!!!
I will tell you this John Hall better get his act in gear, he didnt kick ONE in the end zone. I would like to see Nick Novak back at Redskins Park.

Frosty just sucks. We need another punter as well. period.

Re: Is Kicker Top Priority?
 

WOW wat is happening to kickers these days?!?!?!
i thought vanderjagt was the best in the league up until he choked big time against pitt. john hall is DONE. im tired of waiting for him 2 come bak from injury after injury, we need a reliable, healthy, powerful kicker. where is mark mosely wen u need him.

Re: Is Kicker Top Priority?
 

maybe we should give tom tupa another look, i cnt remmemebr did he leave from getting on the "ir" or fammily issues, cant rememmber...he was a decent punter

Re: Is Kicker Top Priority?
 

I would like to find a Jeff Hayes Clone. Back in the 80's he was the Redskins Punter that also handled kickoffs for Mosley. He was athletic enough to run fake punts and kicked off very well. A player like that would be hard to find I know, but it would allow us to keep Hall at what he does best FG's without hurting him on KO's.

Re: Is Kicker Top Priority?
 

hall makes too much money and is too injury prone.isnt there any good kickers coming out of college?punters are a dime a dozen

Re: Is Kicker Top Priority?
 

Hall stinks it up. We need someone with some leg. I can't stand seeing teams start near or at the 40 yard line. What happened to Novak, he was a great rookie. Maybe could have made that game winner against San Diego, and maybe would have made a crucial kick in the Seattle playoff game. Plus Hall is constantly injured and costs over 1Mil on the cap, dish him out to Buffalo or somethin.

Re: Is Kicker Top Priority?
 

I believe after Hall's string of injuries, he's toast. Let's face it, when your range ends at 45 yards, something is wrong. That shouldn't be THAT difficult of a field goal for an NFL kicker. I know I'm not qualified to say, but I've always felt that a 45 yard field goal is somewhere in the moderate range of difficulty, but not a breaking point. I don't mind if we have one of those deals where there is a field goal kicker, a seperate kick off guy, and of course a punter.

As it stands right now - a kicker is a priority, but it isn't the TOP priority. That title would go to getting a Wide Receiver.

Re: Is Kicker Top Priority?
 

1. Kicker is not nearly the #1 priority. In fact it may not even be #4.

2. What happened to the John Hall Adoration Society? When he arrived here from the Jets, his digning was one of the great thefts of NFL talent in history - - if I were to believe The Warpath threads at the time. Just last year when the Jets missed the playoffs because their kicker missed field goals in playoff games, people here chortled because the Skins had stolen the kicker who would have put the Jets "over the top". And now he's a bozo such that his replacement might be the team's "#1 priority"? Hall is a good but not great kicker; that's what he was when Danny Boy signed him and the rest of the "Jetskins" and that's what he will always be. If the Skins want a great kicker, it will cost them a lot more than they have been paying for Hall.

Re: Is Kicker Top Priority?
 

[QUOTE=sportscurmudgeon]1. Kicker is not nearly the #1 priority. In fact it may not even be #4.

2. What happened to the John Hall Adoration Society? When he arrived here from the Jets, his digning was one of the great thefts of NFL talent in history - - if I were to believe The Warpath threads at the time. Just last year when the Jets missed the playoffs because their kicker missed field goals in playoff games, people here chortled because the Skins had stolen the kicker who would have put the Jets "over the top". And now he's a bozo such that his replacement might be the team's "#1 priority"? Hall is a good but not great kicker; that's what he was when Danny Boy signed him and the rest of the "Jetskins" and that's what he will always be. If the Skins want a great kicker, it will cost them a lot more than they have been paying for Hall.[/QUOTE]

He's not a great kicker as you say, but the problem is that he's gone from being a good kicker in 2003 to being below serviceable. Injuries surely are to blame, but what's the sense in paying a kicker that can't kickoff more than 50-55 yards and can't make 50+ yard FGs $ 1.8 million? I know that given needs on WR#2 , O-line and Defense that we can't afford a Vinetieri or Vanderjagt, but we can surely get some competition into camp to give Hall a run for his money.

Re: Is Kicker Top Priority?
 

Hall's stock has fallen because he just can't seem to stay healthy and it's definitely hurt his power.

I don't think we'll cut him outright without having a solid replacement, I think he'll be challenged in camp, and not by some camp fodder kicker who's just there to keep him company.

Re: Is Kicker Top Priority?
 

I dont think John Hall was ever completely healthy this year.... was it a hamstring??? anyone that has played knows they will always be a nuisance till you rest them...but Hall is a good kicker......

Re: Is Kicker Top Priority?
 

I agree with you guys on Hall...it's time to let the garbage out...As for Frost, dont worry about it, Tupa will be back next year....The real question would be is there going to be a FA Kicker out there for us to pick up...because we dont have the draft picks to waist on a Top Kicker coming out of college.

Re: Is Kicker Top Priority?
 

[QUOTE=j_j__l]I agree with you guys on Hall...it's time to let the garbage out...As for Frost, dont worry about it, Tupa will be back next year....The real question would be is there going to be a FA Kicker out there for us to pick up...because we dont have the draft picks to waist on a Top Kicker coming out of college.[/QUOTE]
I think we need 1-2 WRs and a pass rushing DE more than a kicker, who I am sure we won't draft, we'll either go with a vet, an undrafted rookie, or John Hall if he gets his act together. When I was at Madison he was kicking there, touchbacks all the time and a MUCH bigger leg than he has now. He is gimpy.

Re: Is Kicker Top Priority?
 

John Hall is a kicker that we can win with, and a kicker that can help us win. He is a very good kicker. For all you bozos out there that don't understand that, maybe you should go back and take a look at the late 90s/ early 00s. We would have killed for what we now have in John Hall.

Re: Is Kicker Top Priority?
 

[QUOTE=cpayne5]John Hall is a kicker that we can win with, and a kicker that can help us win. He is a very good kicker. For all you bozos out there that don't understand that, maybe you should go back and take a look at the late 90s/ early 00s. We would have killed for what we now have in John Hall.[/QUOTE]

I agree with you about the 90s and 00s, but that was also the same time that Hall was in his prime...Now that we have him in the MID 00s, he's hurt to much for his salary and doesn't kick the ball deep anough on kickoffs for his salary...

Re: Is Kicker Top Priority?
 

[QUOTE=j_j__l]I agree with you about the 90s and 00s, but that was also the same time that Hall was in his prime...Now that we have him in the MID 00s, he's hurt to much for his salary and doesn't kick the ball deep anough on kickoffs for his salary...[/QUOTE]
If you notice, I never made a connection between our kicking situation in the 90s/00s and John Hall's concurrent successes. I referred to then and the *current* JH.

It's not like we're talking $5million/yr here. His salary for 2006 & 2007 is $1.5mill. That's chump change. What would we save by cutting him? After signing another kicker, only about $.5mill. So it boils down to, would you rather save a half million and get a young kicker, or risk a half million on a known kicker who has had some injury issues? I'll take John Hall any day of the week on that one.

Re: Is Kicker Top Priority?
 

maybe i miss read your quote on the 90/100s...but at this point in time i would save the .5 Million, and get the best younger/healthier/stronger kicker...then a kicker that has shown the past 2 years he can't stay healthy...and half of this year he didn't have any leg left and then he missed what use to be a chip shot for him in the playoffs against SEA...WE've all seen kickers get replaced because of less.

Re: Is Kicker Top Priority?
 

Also remember that Vandy shanked one for the Colts. Hall at least is proven. I'd say give him the offseason to rehab that leg and increase the strength and see what he does next year and then pass out judgements.

Come on now, you can't want to cut a guy who does a forward roll when he does something good!

Re: Is Kicker Top Priority?
 

(forward roll)LOL.....I was never a big fan of Vandy, just because i'm not sold he's a team player...with that in mind he looks like he might get cut, salary....We will see, but my opinion as of right now would be to really be looking for options if i was Gibbs.

Re: Is Kicker Top Priority?
 

Oh, in no way shape or form would I suggest getting Vandy. He'll command more than Hall AND be a bad team player. I'm just saying you don't cut someone because they miss chip shot field goals. If teams did, Jay Feely would have been looking for jobs many times this year.

Re: Is Kicker Top Priority?
 

TRUE on Feely...but honestly the chip shot was just an add on...I was more worried about the kickoffs and having to be with in the 20 for his leg to reach the FieldGoal.

Re: Is Kicker Top Priority?
 

[QUOTE=j_j__l]maybe i miss read your quote on the 90/100s...but at this point in time i would save the .5 Million, and get the best younger/healthier/stronger kicker...then a kicker that has shown the past 2 years he can't stay healthy...and half of this year he didn't have any leg left and then he missed what use to be a chip shot for him in the playoffs against SEA...WE've all seen kickers get replaced because of less.[/QUOTE]
None that are as good as John Hall, though.

Statistically, JH had his best year last year. FG percentage of 85.7%.

You should go and compare JH's situational statistics to the likes of Akers, Vanderjagt, & Vinatiery.

Re: Is Kicker Top Priority?
 

I'm not sure if you heard this, but Danny Smith was talking to Hall AND Novak asking them to kick the ball higher rather than farther to make sure the coverage unit could make it down the field.

Just an FYI for anyone, we had the highest rated kick coverage team in the NFL.

Re: Is Kicker Top Priority?
 

Thanks for the stats Malcolm and cpayne....I actually didn't realize his FG% was that high...It just seamed that we would never try a FG near or over 40yrds when Hall came back from injury.

Re: Is Kicker Top Priority?
 

I was mentioning this to cpayne over IM and we also need to realize that just like LaVar, Hall has spent this year rehabbing his injury. Give him the offseason to work on his strength and not just rehab and I bet he'll be back to his old shadow-boxing self.

Re: Is Kicker Top Priority?
 

It wouldn't hurt my feelings if he did get back to form....I was just looking at where we could improve this offseason and our Kicking game seem to be an area....and if he does get back to form and Tupa comes back healthy then our kicking game would be solid again

Re: Is Kicker Top Priority?
 

I have full confidence in that happening. Tupa might be old, but he's good and kickers live forever anyway.

Re: Is Kicker Top Priority?
 

:coach: i say so becuz our kicker can't even get it to the fifteen most kickoffs

Re: Is Kicker Top Priority?
 

Please read a few posts above.

Re: Is Kicker Top Priority?
 

[QUOTE=skns03]:coach: i say so becuz our kicker can't even get it to the fifteen most kickoffs[/QUOTE]

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Re: Is Kicker Top Priority?
 

Personally I think kicker is the second most important position on the field (after QB, and not counting coach). With the parity in the league, almost every game is decided by one score or less and a strong kicker is a must.

I'm ok with Hall if he's healthy. I'd like to see more range from him but as long as he's solid from 45yds in I have no problem.

As for Novak, I always liked him and I thought he was really cool in that Seahawks game. However, I'm not sure he has the range. He seemed to compensate for his lack of distance by kicking low line drives, which leaves him succeptable to a lot of blocked kicks.

Whoever kicks for us I hope they are ready because it really is that important.

Re: Is Kicker Top Priority?
 

Kicker is an important position and needs to be prioritized as such. I'd rather have a decent WR2 and a good kicker than a good WR2 and a decent kicker. Fot those who fail to remember we went through some long and thin years without a good kicker and we lost games directly becasue of it. Hall was below average this year on kickoffs and apparently unreliable on long fieldgoals as we tried very few. I think he was unhealthy somewhat but what's new? They need to bring in someone of substance who can do the job. Even if they just bring in a promising rookie to compete with Hall that would be good. For god's sake though get someone who can kickoff without it looking like he is giving birth. I'd even settle for a weaker leg kicker with accuracy as long as we had a punter who could kickoffs.