Sell Me A Car-What Should I Buy
 

I've had a 93 Accord since well 93. And it's given me 150K solid miles. But lately it's just problem after problem with that car

So I want, actually I need, to buy a new car. Actually I have no preference, new or certified pre-owned. I don't want it too old though. I want a navigation system, and AWD, and would prefer not to go over 30K, would rather not go over 25K if possible

So sell me a car. Convince me on what kind to buy

Re: Sell Me A Car
 

I had to change my thread title because hooskins hijacked it for his own thread...stupid Indian. <<statement made purely in jest>>

Re: Sell Me A Car
 

[quote=TAFKAS]I had to change my thread title because hooskins hijacked it for his own thread...stupid Indian. <<statement made purely in jest>>[/quote]

haha its all love ;)

Re: Sell Me A Car
 

[quote=TAFKAS] <<statement made purely in jest>>[/quote]

LIES, LIES!!!!! I am going to have to pull a ?3 maker and call you a racist... against blacks.



Its good to see with all the $$$ your making now you are going to pimp out. You could get the best camry or accord models available and they are as nice as the lexus and acuras. They are really, really nice if you get the best model available and with you negotiate under 25,000

Re: Sell Me A Car-What Should I Buy
 

Certified pre-owned makes the most financial sense. Getting a car coming off a two-year lease is ideal (20-30 thousand miles). You probably know this, but cars depreciate like sons of bitches the second you drive a new one off the lot. Catching a pre-owned allows you to take advantage of that initial depreciation, buying at a lower price but still getting the car at a relatively young age.

I'm assuming that since you liked the Accord before, you're comfortable in that class of car again. So I'd say the best bet is Toyota Camry, second best bet is the Honda Accord, third best bet is the Hyundai Sonata.

Hondas hold their value the longest of the 3, meaning if you got in a wreck and totaled it a few years after buying it, your insurance company would cut you the biggest check for the Honda.

Toyotas are a bit cheaper to maintain. Parts are a bit less expensive. I think Hyundais are pretty good on maintenance cost. Plus Hyundai offers that peace of mind with the 10-year power train warrantee.

If you're buying a car with 15-30 thousand miles on it, you're probably talking about 2004 models. That year, the Honda Accord won the car of the year from JD Power. The Camry owned that title for a long time before that.

But the Camry is cheaper, and hence a better value, in my opinion. All three are solid in crash ratings. If safety is really important to you, get the side curtain air bags, adding them takes the vehicles up to 5-star crash ratings.

I have a 1999 Camry, and my mom has a 2002 Camry which I've driven. I can attest to their handling, it's very smooth and the braking is excellent. I've test driven the Honda Accords too, and they have a stiffer feel to the handling and don't brake quite as easily, but I think the engine has more pep (comparing 4 cylinder to 4 cylinder). It comes down to what you like, but in the end, I think the Camry is the #1 car in the country (in terms of units sold) for a reason. I've never had a problem with mine, not one, I've had it for four years.

If you want something sportier but still reliable and sensible, the Toyota Solara looks like a sweet choice to me.

Re: Sell Me A Car-What Should I Buy
 

Just noticed that you're looking for the AWD and navigation system options. Not sure about the availability of AWD on the sedans I mentioned. You may need to go up in class to get the AWD option on a sedan (Lexus, BMW 3 series, or a small SUV. or consider Subarus, which aren't half bad).

I personally advise against AWD because it guzzles more gas. But if you're living in Connecticut and working at ESPN, I can see why you might want the AWD for those snowy days.

Re: Sell Me A Car-What Should I Buy
 

Just about everyone I've talked to in Connecticut is telling me I need to get an SUV for the Connecticut winters. EEich can confirm this, but they tell me that while it doesn't snow often there when it snows it snows hard. So I need a car that can handle that.

I'm definitely leaning toward staying in the Honda family or going with a Toyota. I've always liked the Honda ride. I rented a Highlander last weekend and that was very smooth

Re: Sell Me A Car-What Should I Buy
 

TAFKAS, I do not claim to be a car expert by no means, but if I was in the market for a new or slightly used AWD car with a navagation system, I would seriously look at the Hyundai Tucson [url]http://www.hyundaiusa.com/vehicle/tucson/trim/limited.aspx[/url]
It is a smaller SUV type with 4wd. If you look at the link and see what it comes with stock it is a pretty good price for what you get. Or if you want a bigger SUv, but no a gas hog, you could go with Hyundai's Santa Fe. [url]http://www.hyundaiusa.com/vehicle/santafe/trim/limited.aspx[/url]

I currently have a Hyundai Santa Fe and I love it, I get about 30mpg on the highway and about 25 around town. And the best is that it fits all three of my kids car seats in the rear seat, how cool is that. Also, Hyundai offers a pretty damn good warrenty 10 years, or 100,000 miles on the power train, [url]http://www.hyundaiusa.com/global/warranty/warranty.aspx[/url] The warrenty is so good that they termed it Americas best warrenty. I like the Hyundai class of vehicles because of how they look, there excellent quality, and excelent warrenty, but thats just me.

If you would like to stay with honda and want an awd type vehicle then I suggest Honda's CRV. [url]http://automobiles.honda.com/models/specifications_descriptions.asp?ModelName=CR%2DV&Category=4WD%20EX[/url] When I bought my Santa Fe, it was down to the CR-V or the Santa Fe, I went with the Santa Fe pretty much because of the warrenty.

All in all, I am a big consumer reports guy and in there last car issue the cars that I mentioned all got good reviews. If there is a certain car that you would like to know what consumer reports has to say about it let me know and I will look it up and give you a run down as to what they say about the car...

Re: Sell Me A Car-What Should I Buy
 

The Honda CR-V is probably my top choice right now. But I've been hearing good things about the Subaru Forester. I know Consumer Reports gave them both good reviews

Canthetuna, any thoughts on the Toyota SUVs? I know that's your area of expertise.

Re: Sell Me A Car-What Should I Buy
 

I can personally vouch for a BMW 3 series. They are certainly the best value for luxury cars and I think in the top three of all luxury cars. You can get a decent used 04 with not bad mileage for under 30. They also retain a good bit of their value. Especially if you are getting a used one. As far as SUVs go there are tons but with gas prices you may want to stick with the more efficient models. This puts you in the Honda CRV and Subaru Forrester area. These two are consistently rated above like models(Escape, Liberty, etc..). The Forrester generally is regarded as having the better AWD system and I have seen it mostly rated slightly better than the CRV but it definitely doesn't give much of an SUV feel. Feels a lot like a station wagon honestly. The CRV I can say is a very good car and just as solid as any other Honda model. I had a CRV and would get another before getting a Forrester. New CRVs run about 25 and retain a good bit of value too. Used with low mileage will still cost you 21 or so.

Re: Sell Me A Car-What Should I Buy
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS]The Honda CR-V is probably my top choice right now. But I've been hearing good things about the Subaru Forester. I know Consumer Reports gave them both good reviews

Canthetuna, any thoughts on the Toyota SUVs? I know that's your area of expertise.[/QUOTE]
Missed this before my last post. I had a CRV and am planning on buying a new one soon. I have test driven the Forrester and just didn't like it nearly as much. The one thing about the CRV that is killer though: road noise. It is a loud car on the highways. The Forrester really is a SUW (sports utility wagon). You can't go wrong with the CRV. The others in this class are really down a level in terms of value for durability, safety, efficiency and overall ammenity.

Seriously though. find a BMW dealer and test a 3 series. You will love it. especially if it is a 325 or 8. Probably more than you want to spend but you'll get a good return on it when you get rid of it later on. It wont cost much more in the long run than an Accord.

Re: Sell Me A Car-What Should I Buy
 

For you CR-V guys, I am not sure if you are aware of this or not, but Honda is going to release an Accord version of the CR-V. Currently where I work we are making the bearing caps for the motor. It is going to have a 6 cyl. that will be pumping out like 270 horsepower. Also, we make a transmission carrier that will go in this all new Accord CR-V. I am not sure when it will come out yet, I think 2007. It also has some kind of new drive system where the car will read the terrain that you are driving on and apply different amount of pressure on each indiviual tire to avoid spin outs and what not. It sounds pretty sweet...

Re: Sell Me A Car-What Should I Buy
 

Could you guys explain to me the difference between 4WD and AWD. And the advantages of each?

Re: Sell Me A Car-What Should I Buy
 

AWD - All wheel drive, meaning that all 4 wheels have power distributed to each one all the time in theory. For example if you were to lift an AWD in the air and press the gas pedal all 4 tires should spin. But you have to be carefull because newer cars that claim to be AWD are in fact not. The motor industry uses this term to market a car that will switch from two wheel drive to AWD automaticly as needed to prevent spinouts and what not.

4WD or 4x4 - Four wheel drive, is where power is distributed to the tires at your command. The driver can select when to put the vehicle into 4WD. In side the car there will be a button or another shifter which the driver will push or pull to put the car in 4WD. Also, 4WD does not automaticly mean that once the car is in 4WD that all tires will have power to them individually. Usually it is only the 2 opposite tires that get power to them. For example, if you have a Ford f-150 that is 4WD, when you put the truck into 4wd the driver side front tire and the passenger side rear tire are the only tires that would get power to them, thus not making it a true 4 wheel drive vehicle.

I hope this helps...

Re: Sell Me A Car-What Should I Buy
 

Where I work about 60% to 70% of the parts we make go inside a transfer case. All 4wd or newer awd cars have transfer cases. The transfer case is what "transfers" power to the wheels. The transfer case is needed to to engage the front or rear tires for the the awd or 4wd system to work.

Re: Sell Me A Car-What Should I Buy
 

As for advantages AWD means that the driver pretty much doenst need to do anything the car adjusts to the enviroment. You never have to put the car in or out of 4wd. You just press on the gas and if one tire slips then the system will be engaged. Most newer vehicles are set up this way. But just remember not all AWD cars are true All Wheel Drive.

4wd you can go from a 2wd car to a 4wd car and back at your liking.

Re: Sell Me A Car-What Should I Buy
 

doesnt anyone drive american anymore?tafkas,i have a 2003 tahoe thats loaded,and has everything you talked about.i got it last year with 17,000 miles on it for 25,000.this car is the mac daddy.great in bad weather and very comfortable to ride in.buy american people,invest in THIS country.tafkas have you started yet?and how is it going?

Re: Sell Me A Car-What Should I Buy
 

Are you aware that most honda's, toyota's and hyundai's are made here in america?

Re: Sell Me A Car-What Should I Buy
 

Also, I have no problem with american cars once they can offer the same quality for the same price. Why would someone spend $25,000 to $30,000 for a vehicle that will be junk in 5 years? You should be able to get atleast 10 years out of a car not 5 if your lucky...

How often do you see toyota or honda offer cash back or 0% apr on there cars? Ever think that there is a reason for that? They dont have to unlike the american motor companies, toyota and honda know that they have a good product and they dont need to give consumers incentive to buy them...

Re: Sell Me A Car-What Should I Buy
 

there's no such thing as an american car anymore. a lot of parts for EVERY car are shipped over from asia. deal with it.

Re: Sell Me A Car-What Should I Buy
 

Here are my recommendations -

Sedans: Accord, Camry, Subaru Legacy (AWD)
Small SUVs: RAV4 (especially 2006+), CR-V, Highlander
Midsize SUVs: 4Runner, Trailblazer

With the SUV choices, I'm assuming that they all have/are AWD/4WD and with the sedans, only the Suby is AWD.

If you plan on keeping your vehicle for a long time, buy it new. I know you take a hit on depreciation, but by buying it new you know the exact history of it. You know how it has been treated. If you're going to sell the car in 3-5 years, go with a slightly used vehicle.

In terms of quality, Japanese autos are tops. Especially ones made in Japan. You can tell if it's made in japan by seeing if the VIN starts with a J. You wouldn't think that there would be a difference, but there is. American cars are of better quality than the Europeans. American cars have taken a bum rap recently, and frankly it's not at all warranted at this point. I have never owned a korean car (hyundai/ kia), but would go out on a limb and say that they are right now what Honda/Toyota was back in the 60s/ 70s in terms of industry emergence.

The general driveline of a vehicle with either AWD or 4WD: engine->transmission->transfer case-> 2 outputs; 1 to front axle & 1 to rear

AWD vs 4WD
There really isn't a whole lot of difference here with the terms. Where the difference lies is in the implementation of the systems. Traditionally, a 4WD vehicle gives you a multimode transfer case with a lever(s), or more recently buttons or knobs, which allow you to make the switch from 2wheel drive to 4wheel drive. An all wheel drive system does not give you the ability to manually switch your vehicle to 2wd. Some all wheel drive systems do allow the driver to switch into a low range, but I doubt you really need to be concerned with that given how you're going to use the vehicle. At this point, an AWD vehicle and a vehicle with a multimode transfer case in 4wd are in basically the same state.

AWD vs 4WD w/ 4WD mode selected
Alright, here's where the fun begins. :D In order to split power you need an input, a "gear box", and 2 outputs. This is general idea is universal, but what happens inside of the "gear box" varies greatly. Gearbox can be used to mean a transfer case or an axle/differential combo. I'll use the generic term gearbox as they both have similar behaviors in the auto industry. A gearbox can allow three things to occur; allow outputs to spin at different speeds (open), lock the outputs together so that they spin at the same speeds (locked), and lock the outputs together so that they spin at the same speeds to a friction point (limited slip). Locked "gearboxes" give the best traction, but the least streetability (think about all four tires of a vehicle travelling the same speeds around a tight curve and the difference in distances travelled by the tires). Now, going back to AWD vs 4WD, in both scenarios, the transfer cases of a vehicle with either system will more than likely guarantee a certain ratio of power to the front and rear wheels. With a locked transfer case, the ratio will be 50/50 (unless you break something :D). After the transfer case 'splits' the input, it outputs it to the axles. An axle then takes the input and splits it again in its differential, sending power to the wheels. The differential is another gearbox that can again be open, locked, or have a limited slip. So at this point, we have a transfer case and 2 differentials that can all be open. A very suprising thing can happen to an AWD vehicle with all three being open. Say three wheels have traction on pavement but the third tire is on ice with absolutely no traction. From the engine, power will go to the transfer case, pick the easiest route (to the axle with the tire on ice), then at the axle the power will pick the next easiest route (to the tire on ice), thus giving 100% of your cars power to the one and only tire with absolutely no traction. Industry realized this and designed systems to limit this scenario from happening. The first is the power ratio split guarantee in the transfer case that I mentioned earlier. This will guarantee that each axle gets a portion of the power and at least TWO wheels will spin at this point. But the two wheels can be on separate axles and each wheel still may not have traction (say the two driver side wheels are on ice and the passenger side wheels are on pavement). So, now we have vehicles with active traction control systems. These systems basically use an open differential against itself in certain situation. If you go back to the 3 open diff situation, an active TC system will "see" that the tire on ice is slipping, apply the brake (which gives this power route more resistance) and force the differential to route the power to the opposite wheel on the axle. At this point, the car will have traction and move forward. This system will also work if both tires on an axle have no traction. The system will apply the brakes to the wheels on an axle where both wheels are spinning and the power will then be routed to the opposite axle at the transfer case.

I have three vehicles with varying system that can send power to any of the 4 wheels. I have a Jeep Wrangler Rubicon which allows you to manually lock all three 'gearboxes'. This is the ultimate offroader. I have a Toyota 4Runner which allows you to lock the transfer case and also has an active traction control system that partially makes up for a lack of lockers in the axles. I also have an older truck that has a locked transfer case, locked rear axle, and an open front axle. The most streetable is the 4Runner, but it compensates for itself very well offroad. The least streetable is the truck because its rear axle is locked 100% of the time.

If I were to give you a suggestion right now, I'd have to say either a new Camry or Accord. You can't beat the quality/dependability and with a good set of winter tires, either will give you ample traction.

Re: Sell Me A Car-What Should I Buy
 

I agree about the Subaru Legacy. The ride is great and you'll get your AWD.

Re: Sell Me A Car-What Should I Buy
 

Hey TAFKAS... I have a Toyota Matrix AWD (in addition to the Prius). Will generally drive that in bad weather. I love it.

I used to be a Honda guy... but I think the Toyotas offer better value and style.

Re: Sell Me A Car-What Should I Buy
 

Hey Tafkas: I bought a 2005 GMC Denali XL about a year ago. If you can get one in your price range, I highly recommend the car based on my experiences so far. It has a great navigation system that is fully touch-screen (not all nav. systems are and the ones that are not are much more time-consuming to operate). The engine is a 5.3L V8 with 300 HP. Towing capacity (if it matters) is over 6500 lbs. The cabin is quieter and the ride is smoother than my friends' Lexus and BMW, it has more power, more features, and costs less. The drive system gives you three options: 2WD, AWD, 4WD High, 4WD Low. With the exception of going from 4WD High to 4WD Low, you can switch from one to another as you are driving (up to 60 MPH) by simply turning a switch. Other features: Leather everywhere, 2 separate memory settings (my wife is 5' tall, so this is important for us.......when she uses her remote to open the car, the seat, mirrors, climate control, and radio automatically adjust to her settings), dual zone automatic climate control, DVD player for the rear seat passengers, and a ton of other features. I really think if you look around, you could probably get a 2005 with either these features or slightly less for around the 30k mark depending on mileage.

Re: Sell Me A Car-What Should I Buy
 

[quote=That Guy]there's no such thing as an american car anymore. a lot of parts for EVERY car are shipped over from asia. deal with it.[/quote]

That's funny, the last 4 cars I've purchased (2 Hondas and 2 Toyotas) were all built in North America.

Re: Sell Me A Car-What Should I Buy
 

that guy you are right about the parts,but American cars are manufactured here in the good ole USA by Americans.it hits me right in the heart to read about people complaining about the economy meanwhile driving some Subaru or honda.yes,some of these cars are manufactured here but the bottom line is someone overseas receives most of the profit.and Chevy and gmc are always offering 0% financing.this is part of the growing trade deficit that we all complain about

Re: Sell Me A Car-What Should I Buy
 

[QUOTE=dmek25]that guy you are right about the parts,but American cars are manufactured here in the good ole USA by Americans.it hits me right in the heart to read about people complaining about the economy meanwhile driving some Subaru or honda.yes,some of these cars are manufactured here but the bottom line is someone overseas receives most of the profit.and Chevy and gmc are always offering 0% financing.this is part of the growing trade deficit that we all complain about[/QUOTE]
In the other thread, didn't you say you drive a Lexus?

Re: Sell Me A Car-What Should I Buy
 

[quote=Redskins8588]Also, I have no problem with american cars once they can offer the same quality for the same price. Why would someone spend $25,000 to $30,000 for a vehicle that will be junk in 5 years? You should be able to get atleast 10 years out of a car not 5 if your lucky...
[/quote]

That's a pretty blanket statement there. You get what you pay for. If you are willing to spend the money on the better built American cars (and by American I'm talking about the big 3), you can certainly get the same value and reliabilty that you find in foreign counterparts. My parents have never purchased a foreign car in their lives and have never gotten less than 10 years out of any of their cars without any major mechanical problems. I have gone from one American car to the next for the last 13 years and have had no major problems. Saying they only last 5 years is something I commonly hear from foreign car buyers who, obviously, wouldn't really know if it was true since they are just buying foreign cars.

Maybe you've had bad luck with American cars? I don't know. But from my perspective I've not had this experience.

Re: Sell Me A Car-What Should I Buy
 

[QUOTE=PSUSkinsFan21]That's a pretty blanket statement there. You get what you pay for. If you are willing to spend the money on the better built American cars (and by American I'm talking about the big 3), you can certainly get the same value and reliabilty that you find in foreign counterparts. My parents have never purchased a foreign car in their lives and have never gotten less than 10 years out of any of their cars without any major mechanical problems. I have gone from one American car to the next for the last 13 years and have had no major problems. Saying they only last 5 years is something I commonly hear from foreign car buyers who, obviously, wouldn't really know if it was true since they are just buying foreign cars.

Maybe you've had bad luck with American cars? I don't know. But from my perspective I've not had this experience.[/QUOTE]
I totally agree.

Re: Sell Me A Car-What Should I Buy
 

[quote=cpayne5]I totally agree.[/quote]

Thanks cpayne. I also echo what you said about Europeans being the least reliable right now. A friend of mine got a BMW 3 Series with AWD about 3 years ago. He had nothing but problems with it. He's now waiting on an Infiniti G35 on order........couldn't wait to get rid of the Bimmer. Then you've got Volkswagon who has consistently been dead last in reliablity studies for years now, but if you ask most people on the street what the least reliable cars are, most of the time they are just going to unwittingly say "American cars". I don't get it.

Re: Sell Me A Car-What Should I Buy
 

[QUOTE=PSUSkinsFan21]That's a pretty blanket statement there. You get what you pay for. If you are willing to spend the money on the better built American cars (and by American I'm talking about the big 3), you can certainly get the same value and reliabilty that you find in foreign counterparts. My parents have never purchased a foreign car in their lives and have never gotten less than 10 years out of any of their cars without any major mechanical problems. I have gone from one American car to the next for the last 13 years and have had no major problems. Saying they only last 5 years is something I commonly hear from foreign car buyers who, obviously, wouldn't really know if it was true since they are just buying foreign cars.

Maybe you've had bad luck with American cars? I don't know. But from my perspective I've not had this experience.[/QUOTE]
So to get an American car that is as good as a Japanese car we should simply just pay more?

Doesn't make a whole lot of economic sense to me.

When American companies can figure out how to make the same class vehicles at the same quality for the same value then people will buy them more. Plain and simple. I own one "American" car and one "foreign" car. My Tahoe is sweet but I gurantee that when the foreign companies start to take seriously making large size SUVs people will stop buying the top American models that currently dominate the market. As far as sedans the foreign cars simply are better vehicles for the price right now. I wish that weren't the case but it is. And it is totaly ridiculous to try and lay a guilt trip on people for buying foreign cars. We're not talking about a little money here. For most people buying a car is a major investment and simply put they should be able to buy exactly what they want and get the best car they can for their money. It isn't their fault that in any given class of cars the best are usally foreign. I don't blame a guy who makes 35,000 a year for buying an Accord rather than a Taurus. He can't afford to go blowing his money on an inferior product.

Re: Sell Me A Car-What Should I Buy
 

[QUOTE=PSUSkinsFan21]Thanks cpayne. I also echo what you said about Europeans being the least reliable right now. A friend of mine got a BMW 3 Series with AWD about 3 years ago. He had nothing but problems with it. He's now waiting on an Infiniti G35 on order........couldn't wait to get rid of the Bimmer. Then you've got Volkswagon who has consistently been dead last in reliablity studies for years now, but if you ask most people on the street what the least reliable cars are, most of the time they are just going to unwittingly say "American cars". I don't get it.[/QUOTE]
After the new 7 series BMWs came out a couple years ago, Consumer Reports came out with their reliability ratings and said that the 7Series was equally reliable as an EIGHT year old Lexus LS400. Those 7Series are horribly unreliable. Japanese cars aren't off the hook either. The Nissan Titan and Armada (a Titan SUV, basically) are starting to show their problems as they age.

Re: Sell Me A Car-What Should I Buy
 

[QUOTE=FRPLG]So to get an American car that is as good as a Japanese car we should simply just pay more?

Doesn't make a whole lot of economic sense to me.

When American companies can figure out how to make the same class vehicles at the same quality for the same value then people will buy them more. Plain and simple. I own one "American" car and one "foreign" car. My Tahoe is sweet but I gurantee that when the foreign companies start to take seriously making large size SUVs people will stop buying the top American models that currently dominate the market. As far as sedans the foreign cars simply are better vehicles for the price right now. I wish that weren't the case but it is. And it is totaly ridiculous to try and lay a guilt trip on people for buying foreign cars. We're not talking about a little money here. For most people buying a car is a major investment and simply put they should be able to buy exactly what they want and get the best car they can for their money. It isn't their fault that in any given class of cars the best are usally foreign. I don't blame a guy who makes 35,000 a year for buying an Accord rather than a Taurus. He can't afford to go blowing his money on an inferior product.[/QUOTE]
You don't have to pay more to get a reliable Big3 vehicle.

How's the reliability been on your Tahoe so far? My cousin has a 2003 Suburban w/ the 5.3 (same as the Tahoe), and it has been a great vehicle. His girlfriend has put 80k+ miles on it in less than 3 years. Those GenIII motors are excellent. You should be able to easily get 250k out of that motor.

If properly maintained, American cars WILL last 200k+ miles. The key is routine maintenance.

Re: Sell Me A Car-What Should I Buy
 

[QUOTE=cpayne5]You don't have to pay more to get a reliable Big3 vehicle.

How's the reliability been on your Tahoe so far? My cousin has a 2003 Suburban w/ the 5.3 (same as the Tahoe), and it has been a great vehicle. His girlfriend has put 80k+ miles on it in less than 3 years. Those GenIII motors are excellent. You should be able to easily get 250k out of that motor.

If properly maintained, American cars WILL last 200k+ miles. The key is routine maintenance.[/QUOTE]
I am not saying that there are not some good American cars. ANd I am nto saying there aren't some bad Foreign cars. But when you look at every class of car (outside of SUVs) basically the foreign cars dominate the lists of the top quality and reliability. I just don't blame someone for buying foreign when the option is usually to buy an inferior American version in the same class or spend a little more for a higher class Amrican car.

I basically encourage people to figure out what they can afford and buy the best car they can get at that price. Foreign or American.

Re: Sell Me A Car-What Should I Buy
 

All cars makes have their problems but American companies seem to take a lot of shortcuts, and their cars are not as gas efficient (last time I shopped for a car) nor do they retain their value. I was a witness to my father's Chrysler Concord falling apart just after 6 years. He was lucky to sell it for a 2 grand.

Re: Sell Me A Car-What Should I Buy
 

[QUOTE=FRPLG]I am not saying that there are not some good American cars. ANd I am nto saying there aren't some bad Foreign cars. But when you look at every class of car (outside of SUVs) basically the foreign cars dominate the lists of the top quality and reliability. I just don't blame someone for buying foreign when the option is usually to buy an inferior American version in the same class or spend a little more for a higher class Amrican car.[/QUOTE]

Here's an interesting article with some facts that I bet you'll find suprising.
[url]http://www.cnn.com/2006/AUTOS/01/23/american_cars/index.html[/url]

Here is what sits in my driveway.
1987 Chevy Truck
2001 Honda Civic
2005 Toyota 4Runner
2006 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon

Re: Sell Me A Car-What Should I Buy
 

[quote=FRPLG]So to get an American car that is as good as a Japanese car we should simply just pay more? [/quote]

I never said that. What I'm saying is don't buy a $17,000 dodge neon and then bitch about it not lasting as long as a $23,000 camry. Dollar for dollar I disagree with the statement that American cars are somehow inferior. I don't know where everyone gets the impression that foreign cars are so cheap, but they're not. I'll grant you the Japanese have the market on compact cars. It's hard to argue against the Civic in terms of reliability for the price. But I challenge anyone to get more for their money than I got last year when I bought my 2005 Denali.

Another example: in 2001 I bought a Dodge Stratus R/T coupe with a 3.0L V6 (200 HP), 4 disc CD in the dash, premium Infinity sound system, sun roof, leather seats, 8-way power adjustable driver seat, 17" aluminum alloy wheels, 4 wheel anti-lock disc brakes, integrated fog lamps, etc. I got all that in 2001 for $21,000 with 3.9% financing. A week or two ago I just traded it in. 5 years, 46k miles and I NEVER had a single problem with it. Nothing, in 5 years. I changed the breaks once, tires once, and the oil every 7,500 miles (because that's all it called for). What equivalent foreign car could I have gotten in terms of features, reliability, and performance for that kind of money in 2001?

[quote]When American companies can figure out how to make the same class vehicles at the same quality for the same value then people will buy them more. Plain and simple. I own one "American" car and one "foreign" car. My Tahoe is sweet but I gurantee that when the foreign companies start to take seriously making large size SUVs people will stop buying the top American models that currently dominate the market. As far as sedans the foreign cars simply are better vehicles for the price right now. I wish that weren't the case but it is. And it is totaly ridiculous to try and lay a guilt trip on people for buying foreign cars. We're not talking about a little money here. For most people buying a car is a major investment and simply put they should be able to buy exactly what they want and get the best car they can for their money. It isn't their fault that in any given class of cars the best are usally foreign. I don't blame a guy who makes 35,000 a year for buying an Accord rather than a Taurus. He can't afford to go blowing his money on an inferior product.[/quote]

As for sedans and coupes, I would argue that an Impala SS, Monte Carlo SS, Dodge Charger, Chrysler 300, Pontiac Grand Prix GXP, Pontiac G6, Pontiac GTO, Chevrolet Corvette, and Cadillac CTS all offer more than their foreign counterparts for less money. But this thread is more about getting Tafkas a new car, so I don't think we really need to get into a debate about specific cars, or this thread will likely turn into a 50 pager in no time.

And for the record, I never layed a guilt trip on anybody. To the extent you think I did, please show me where.

Re: Sell Me A Car-What Should I Buy
 

[QUOTE=saden1]All cars makes have their problems but American companies seem to take a lot of shortcuts, and their cars are not as gas efficient (last time I shopped for a car) nor do they retain their value. I was a witness to my father's Chrysler Concord falling apart just after 6 years. He was lucky to sell it for a 2 grand.[/QUOTE]
Actually, gas mileage is very comparable. What cars were you comparing? I'm sure that if two cars had measurable differences, they probably had differences in power and/or weight as well.

Re: Sell Me A Car-What Should I Buy
 

[quote=cpayne5]Actually, gas mileage is very comparable. What cars were you comparing? I'm sure that if two cars had measurable differences, they probably had differences in power and/or weight as well.[/quote]

Agreed, and I know that GM for one has been increasingly using their displacement on demand technology on their V8s to increase gas mileage without sacrificing performance.

Re: Sell Me A Car-What Should I Buy
 

[quote=PSUSkinsFan21]I never said that. What I'm saying is don't buy a $17,000 dodge neon and then bitch about it not lasting as long as a $23,000 camry. Dollar for dollar I disagree with the statement that American cars are somehow inferior. I don't know where everyone gets the impression that foreign cars are so cheap, but they're not. I'll grant you the Japanese have the market on compact cars. It's hard to argue against the Civic in terms of reliability for the price. But I challenge anyone to get more for their money than I got last year when I bought my 2005 Denali.

Another example: in 2001 I bought a Dodge Stratus R/T coupe with a 3.0L V6 (200 HP), 4 disc CD in the dash, premium Infinity sound system, sun roof, leather seats, 8-way power adjustable driver seat, 17" aluminum alloy wheels, 4 wheel anti-lock disc brakes, integrated fog lamps, etc. I got all that in 2001 for $21,000 with 3.9% financing. A week or two ago I just traded it in. 5 years, 46k miles and I NEVER had a single problem with it. Nothing, in 5 years. I changed the breaks once, tires once, and the oil every 7,500 miles (because that's all it called for). What equivalent foreign car could I have gotten in terms of features, reliability, and performance for that kind of money in 2001?



As for sedans and coupes, I would argue that an [B]Impala SS, Monte Carlo SS, Dodge Charger, Chrysler 300, Pontiac Grand Prix GXP, Pontiac G6, Pontiac GTO, Chevrolet Corvette, and Cadillac CTS all offer more than their foreign counterparts for less money.[/B] But this thread is more about getting Tafkas a new car, so I don't think we really need to get into a debate about specific cars, or this thread will likely turn into a 50 pager in no time.

And for the record, I never layed a guilt trip on anybody. To the extent you think I did, please show me where.[/quote]

I like how you are analyzing the costs/benefits of each car, because the price definitely has to enter the equation when you're talking about quality.

But be careful in your comparisons, a Dodge Neon (compact) is not the same class as a Toyota Camry (midsize sedan). If you're looking for the same-class comparison, go with the Neon and the Toyota Corrolla or Honda Civic.

The American models are often cheaper, but the quality isn't as good as the Japanese. I bolded a part of your post because I flat out disagree with it. None of the American cars you mentioned in that bolded section rank very high in terms of quality, and the Japanese makers are ahead according to just about every publication available. That is supported by Consumer Reports, JD Power, Motor Trend, etcetera.

It's a given that Toyota, Honda, and Hyundai are better quality than GM, Chrysler, Ford, and Chevy. But you're right to question whether or not the extra money spent is worth it. That part comes down to individual perception.