Ladell Betts in Saunders' offense
 

We've been talking a lot about how various players will do in Al Saunders' offense; I was just wondering how everyone thought Ladell Betts will perform this year.

I was looking over his stats for the past four seasons and I was suprised that he really hasn't been as productive as I thought. He averages 80 rushing attempts off 318 attempts a season, with about 4 yards per carry. I guess 4 yards a carry is pretty good, especially if he is in mainly for short yardage situations. Larry Johnson averaged closer to 5 ypc in KC (we can all hope Betts will turn out like that), and I think that extra yard will make a huge difference. Betts doesn't seem to be the most durable player on the roster, which freaks me out.

Maybe Saunders will decide to use Betts more in order to take some pressure off of Portis, which will keep him more fresh for the playoff push. I always worry about Ladell fumbling, even though he really doesn't do it too much, but I still think it will only help to having him rush more often.

Basically I would just like to hear how everyone else thinks Ladell will do this season.

Re: Ladell Betts in Saunders' offense
 

Larry Johnson is a special back, so trying to impose his numbers on Betts is a little unfair. I would expect better YPC from both of our backs, if only because the hallmark of Saunders' playcalling is unexpected plays. We will run on 3rd and 6, and Portis (or Betts) will run aginst nickel defenses quite a bit. Hitting a 3rd corner is a lot easier than hitting the WLB, regardless of who it is.

Re: Ladell Betts in Saunders' offense
 

[quote=ArtMonkDrillz]We've been talking a lot about how various players will do in Al Saunders' offense; I was just wondering how everyone thought Ladell Betts will perform this year.

I was looking over his stats for the past four seasons and I was suprised that he really hasn't been as productive as I thought. He averages 80 rushing attempts off 318 attempts a season, with about 4 yards per carry. I guess 4 yards a carry is pretty good, especially if he is in mainly for short yardage situations. Larry Johnson averaged closer to 5 ypc in KC (we can all hope Betts will turn out like that), and I think that extra yard will make a huge difference. Betts doesn't seem to be the most durable player on the roster, which freaks me out.

Maybe Saunders will decide to use Betts more in order to take some pressure off of Portis, which will keep him more fresh for the playoff push. I always worry about Ladell fumbling, even though he really doesn't do it too much, but I still think it will only help to having him rush more often.

Basically I would just like to hear how everyone else thinks Ladell will do this season.[/quote]

I'm not so concerned about Ladell Betts, because if we need him to perform really well, then that means Clinton Portis got hurt.

4 yards per carry is pretty good from your backup RB. He's capable of coming in and getting the tough yards. He's never going to have a 5.0 average because he doesn't have the game-breaking speed you need to get a 50-yard TD scamper. He got that 4 yards per carry by grinding out every single play.

But like I said, I'm not going to worry about him too much. It's Portis that should be getting the attention.

Re: Ladell Betts in Saunders' offense
 

I'm not saying I except him to be Larry Johnson, because what he did last season and could very well do in his career is amazing, but I would like to think that Ladell will improve a good deal. I think with some of the running plays and short passes that Saunders may institute Ladell could have a very productive year.

Re: Ladell Betts in Saunders' offense
 

Ladell will prove to be an invaluable backup like we are all used to. I think he'll have about the same production in Al's O. No more, no less. I don't feel so bad about him coming in and starting if CP needs a week off to nurse injuries. We've seen him carry the load before.

Re: Ladell Betts in Saunders' offense
 

betts will be used the same way johnson was prior to priest holmes injury,which is pretty much the way he gets used around here anyway .anywhere fron 5-10 carries a game max and maybe a reception or two

Re: Ladell Betts in Saunders' offense
 

[quote=ArtMonkDrillz]I'm not saying I except him to be Larry Johnson, because what he did last season and could very well do in his career is amazing, but I would like to think that Ladell will improve a good deal. I think with some of the running plays and short passes that Saunders may institute Ladell could have a very productive year.[/quote]

Define "very productive." Is that 80 carries and 360 yards (4.5 per carry)?

Anything more than that would seem to be unrealistic, I think. Portis is still the man, he's the one we should be talking about.

Re: Ladell Betts in Saunders' offense
 

He's one of the best backups in the NFL, talent-wise.

However, with all of the talk about the team going for a 2,000-yard Portis season, I think we have our answer about the backups' roles in the offense.

Re: Ladell Betts in Saunders' offense
 

[quote=Buster]He's one of the best backups in the NFL, talent-wise.

However, with all of the talk about the team going for a 2,000-yard Portis season, I think we have our answer about the backups' roles in the offense.[/quote]

Is the team pushing to get Portis to 2,000 yards or are we, the fans, the ones who want him to ge that many? I'd be happier with Betts getting about 500 and Portis getting 1300+ and being in top form for the playoff. I felt like he was really hurting by the end of the season last year, which in turn hurt the team in the playoffs.

Re: Ladell Betts in Saunders' offense
 

Betts will get some carries, no doubt. W/the exception of Riggins' best years, Gibbs has always given the ball to the 2nd tailback 5-10 times a game in games where we're controlling the clock. I think we should all hope that he will get a lot of carries, not because of injury to CP, but because of big leads/clock mgmt. CP lays it on the line every game, we need to rest him every chance we get.
Betts is an adaptable runner, can go inside/outside. He doesn't have blazing speed, but he's got decent speed & quickness in his cuts. Runs strong after contact. I love Betts as a runner, but I wish he could show the same type of aggressiveness as a blocker in pass protection. He often flat out misses blocks entirely cause he's too slow to locate blitzers. He cost us a td against baltimore in 04 by not pickin up Ed Reed.

Re: Ladell Betts in Saunders' offense
 

I hope he is utilized a lot more. Two of my favorite plays from last year involve him. One was the 94 yard kick return TD, the other was the hit he put on Terrence Newman.

Re: Ladell Betts in Saunders' offense
 

hey 724,ask dboyz his opinion on that play with newman:)

Re: Ladell Betts in Saunders' offense
 

betts is not larry johnson, and our OL line is not KC's.

he'll get his 300-400 yards. he's a decent back up that could start for a team with a bad RB situation, but not much more. Rock isn't really that huge a fall off in production (though he's more shifty and less power), so i'm not concerned over overly optimistic about the stats of our #2 rb.

If it was possible for portis to be in every snap, that's what i'd do, since you can bust very long runs more easily against stacked boxes than spread defenses. I realize killing portis isn't smart though and using betts more late in the game would be best for the team by keeping everyone fresh.

Re: Ladell Betts in Saunders' offense
 

I guess im the only one that thinks betts sucks. He isnt that big or fast and he is too delicate for a RB. I think Rock is a better option.

Re: Ladell Betts in Saunders' offense
 

[quote=jamf]I guess im the only one that thinks betts sucks. He isnt that big or fast and he is too delicate for a RB. I think Rock is a better option.[/quote]


Yehh u guessed right ur the only one..

Re: Ladell Betts in Saunders' offense
 

[QUOTE]Yehh u guessed right ur the only one..[/QUOTE]

That's so true because Betts, even though he doesn't see much action, is a solid backup. He had a few good runs when they would take out CP and the end of a game. And even if there is not much to flashy or good to say about him there is no reason to bash or doubt him. Solid backup.

Re: Ladell Betts in Saunders' offense
 

[CODE]Stats:
Ladell Rock
Carries: 89 27
Yards: 336 199
Yards Per Carry: 3.8 7.4
TD's: 1 2
FUMBLES: 3 1
[/CODE]


Rock had a long touchdown against the rams so that bumps up his per carry average.

But ladell has 3 fumbles and a 3.8 ave...
And dont say he is the short yardage back, he isnt. he splits time with portis. Ladell comes in for a series at a time, not situational.

I'm not saying rock is the answer, but I just dont see ladell being able to carry the load in this league.

Re: Ladell Betts in Saunders' offense
 

Side-by-side comparison of Rock's numbers and Ladell's numbers is terribly misleading. Rock got most of those 27 carries against a Rams run defense that was absolutely putrid. In other words, he was basically carrying the ball in garbage time. Betts actually spelled Portis in situations that mattered.

Secondly, if Ladell Betts is your starting RB I think you're kind of in trouble. I don't think he's a savior, if he's starting for your team then you don't have the greatest RB situation. But he definitely doesn't suck, that doesn't make any sense. He attacks holes with more authority than Rock and he gets better yardage after initial contact. He has also proven that he can grind out a 100 yard game while carrying 20+ times. He's reliable and consistent, if you need 4 yards, he's going to get you 4 yards. Just don't expect him to break any 50 yard TD runs, or else you're asking too much of your backup RB.

Re: Ladell Betts in Saunders' offense
 

[url]http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/302176/gamelogs/2005[/url]

I know it sounds like i'm trying to bash the guy, I have not seen one thing that says he can carry the ball as the primary runner.

Check out his stats during "The Run to the Playoff". the only game he averaged 4 yards per carry was the philly game and that was because he had more than half his yards on one play. He runs too high, he gets hit too hard and he fumbles too often.

Re: Ladell Betts in Saunders' offense
 

[quote=jamf][URL="http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/302176/gamelogs/2005"]http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/302176/gamelogs/2005[/URL]

I know it sounds like i'm trying to bash the guy, I have not seen one thing that says he can carry the ball as the primary runner.

Check out his stats during "The Run to the Playoff". the only game he averaged 4 yards per carry was the philly game and that was because he had more than half his yards on one play. He runs too high, he gets hit too hard and he fumbles too often.[/quote]

If you're going to go on stats alone, be fair & look at some of the games he started before Portis was signed - 03 season. Not to mention the last game of 04 against Minn. he put up 100+. The guy runs tough & I disagree that he runs too high. He's gotten a few first downs for us on 3rd & 3 situations. My concerns w/him are his blocking & his injuries. I don't think he's that fumble prone though he's coughed it up a few times. When he carried the ball a lot in 03 I don't think he fumbled much. Bottom line to me he's a good back up, could start on a few teams.

Re: Ladell Betts in Saunders' offense
 

[quote=jamf][URL="http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/302176/gamelogs/2005"]http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/302176/gamelogs/2005[/URL]

I know it sounds like i'm trying to bash the guy, I have not seen one thing that says he can carry the ball as the primary runner.

Check out his stats during "The Run to the Playoff". the only game he averaged 4 yards per carry was the philly game and that was because he had more than half his yards on one play. He runs too high, he gets hit too hard and he fumbles too often.[/quote]

First, why would we need him to be the primary runner? You are aware that we have a player named Clinton Portis, right? He wears #26, dresses up in funny costumes, and runs like the dickens.

Betts could start for a team if they had a crappy RB situation. He's not a #1 back, he's a great #2.

I don't know where you get this thing that he runs too high? That's flat out wrong. You never see him get knocked on his back (which is the result of getting hit by a linebacker when you're running too high). He always plows forward, keeps his pads low, and runs downhill. He's a straigh-line runner, takes it right at the defense, lowers his head, and just hits whoever is in his way. There are no shifty moves, no breakaway speed, but there's just enough power and just enough confidence to hit the hole with authority to provide reliable and consistent running. He's unspectacular, but effective.

Again, I don't know why we're worried about Ladell Betts. You know exactly what you're going to get from him. About 4 yards a carry, just good enough to keep defenses honest when Portis is getting a breather. If we have concerns about anyone in the Saunders offense, I don't think we need to worry about the RBs. They're the least of the concerns, we should be worried about how the QBs will adapt to the new system and to the new WRs. And we should hope the new WRs don't take too long to pick everything up.

Re: Ladell Betts in Saunders' offense
 

First of all, you do not say a Redskin sucks. That being said, so far I have not seen any reply yet that compliments Betts special teams assignments. Oh yeah, he can hit too, did you forget that? I think Betts runs his heart out and I love to have him on the Skins. He's a Redskin. And oh by the way there are 4 downs to get 10 yards to equal a 1st down. So if you RB gets you 4 yards on average, times 3 downs, ummmm hmmm that's 12 yards. First down! Remember John Riggins? That guy who wore 44?

Hail!

Re: Ladell Betts in Saunders' offense
 

[quote=PhxRedSkin]First of all, you do not say a Redskin sucks.[/quote]

what if its true?

should we be praising the great play of taylor jacobs, cory raymer, and antonio brown? cause i sure won't anytime soon.

Re: Ladell Betts in Saunders' offense
 

I think Betts' will rarely be used in the offense giving him time on punt coverage I hope to see one of our other backs step up . Who's are willie parker if injury happens?

Re: Ladell Betts in Saunders' offense
 

[quote=MightyJoeGibbs]I think Betts' will rarely be used in the offense giving him time on punt coverage I hope to see one of our other backs step up . Who's are willie parker if injury happens?[/quote]Duce Staley is the backup, and has been very good in the past. Probably the MVP of the 2003 Eagles, and the team rewarded him with a ticket out of town.

Re: Ladell Betts in Saunders' offense
 

I think he meant who's our willie parker, who will step up if Portis goes down.

I'd really like to see Nemo on the field. Kid his a physical speciemen. Plus, The Citadel is a football factory.

Re: Ladell Betts in Saunders' offense
 

[quote=Daseal]I think he meant who's our willie parker, who will step up if Portis goes down.

I'd really like to see Nemo on the field. Kid his a physical speciemen. Plus, The Citadel is a football factory.[/quote]Ah, I see that now. Yeah, it would be Betts, for this year at least.

Re: Ladell Betts in Saunders' offense
 

[quote=That Guy]what if its true?

should we be praising the great play of taylor jacobs, cory raymer, and antonio brown? cause i sure won't anytime soon.[/quote]


What if what is true? Redskins do not suck. Yes you should appreciate Jacobs, Raymer and Brown. Jacobs was always the last guy off the practice field last year, and still wanting more reps. Raymer has played with injuries and more injuries. And you name A. Brown, come on....Byner had to pick up Brown's spirits after the mistakes he made or maybe we should call them accidents. I'll bet you were not to upset with Brown returning a game changing (Win) kick vs. the Cardinals, huh?
"What if it is true?" What does that mean? REDSKINS do NOT suck! NOT ONE EVER HAS. You either love, live and bleed Burgundy and Gold, or you do not(that is for you to figure, hint powder blue and silver).
Hail

Re: Ladell Betts in Saunders' offense
 

that's nice, but it's also totally out of touch with reality. if everyone on the skins roster is truly a superstar, then why haven't we won 32 superbowls by now?

you can believe whatever you want, but don't tell me what to think or that i'm not allowed to have my own opinions. This forum also asks its members not to question each other's fandom (or what have you)... so if that's your attempt at such, it's extremely lame and not very effective.

and i can't believe you can sit there and tell me jacobs doesn't suck cause he practices harder? sorry, but it doesn't show, so it doesn't count. and why would i be upset with a return TD? I was however upset with his excessive fumbling and total inability to know when to make a fair catch or how to break a tackle or use a move of any kind. I also don't care how many injuries raymer has had, I only cared about how much he was hurting the team when he was on the field... those arguements are all beyond weak.

Re: Ladell Betts in Saunders' offense
 

I don't believe that Jacobs is really the hardest working guy on the team either. If he really was, with his college production, he would have more than enough talent to be successful at this level. He may just not "get it" yet, in which case there is still hope.

Re: Ladell Betts in Saunders' offense
 

[quote=PhxRedSkin]What if what is true? Redskins do not suck. Yes you should appreciate Jacobs, Raymer and Brown. Jacobs was always the last guy off the practice field last year, and still wanting more reps. [/quote]

Does he want more reps b/c he's hoping he catches at least [I]a [/I]ball?

Re: Ladell Betts in Saunders' offense
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012]I don't believe that Jacobs is really the hardest working guy on the team either. If he really was, with his college production, he would have more than enough talent to be successful at this level. He may just not "get it" yet, in which case there is still hope.[/QUOTE]

I don't know. I mean if he's the hardest working guy on the team and he's still not getting it then maybe he's just not cut out for the NFL. I'd almost rather here that he's just wasting his talent and needs to grow-up than he's working his ass off and these are the results.

He seems like a decent enough guy and I'd love to him see him succeed but the Redskins aren't in a position to sit around and wait for him.

As for Ladell Betts, I'm sure he'll do fine. You don't hear of too many players, particularly running backs, bombing under Saunders.

Re: Ladell Betts in Saunders' offense
 

[quote=That Guy]that's nice, but it's also totally out of touch with reality. if everyone on the skins roster is truly a superstar, then why haven't we won 32 superbowls by now?

you can believe whatever you want, but don't tell me what to think or that i'm not allowed to have my own opinions. This forum also asks its members not to question each other's fandom (or what have you)... so if that's your attempt at such, it's extremely lame and not very effective.

and i can't believe you can sit there and tell me jacobs doesn't suck cause he practices harder? sorry, but it doesn't show, so it doesn't count. and why would i be upset with a return TD? I was however upset with his excessive fumbling and total inability to know when to make a fair catch or how to break a tackle or use a move of any kind. I also don't care how many injuries raymer has had, I only cared about how much he was hurting the team when he was on the field... those arguements are all beyond weak.[/quote]

Jacobs is atleast twice as good as the Springfield Mixing Bowl.

Re: Ladell Betts in Saunders' offense
 

[quote=Daseal]I think he meant who's our willie parker, who will step up if Portis goes down.

I'd really like to see Nemo on the field. Kid his a physical speciemen. Plus, The Citadel is a football factory.[/quote]

The Citadel is an antiquated hazing factory.
And Nemo is working up as a fullback.

I still love Ladell. It's a cheap out to give complete credit or blame to an offensive line. But I think that in Ladell's case, he's as good as the line he's running behind. He simply cant make enough happen when a play breaks down like Clinton can. But if the O-line really gets a good sled going downhill, and he gets a head of steam, he can really get moving. I like how he attacks the first would be tackler instead of trying to escape him.

Re: Ladell Betts in Saunders' offense
 

[QUOTE=Monksdown]The Citadel is an antiquated hazing factory.
And Nemo is working up as a fullback.

I still love Ladell. It's a cheap out to give complete credit or blame to an offensive line. But I think that in Ladell's case, he's as good as the line he's running behind. He simply cant make enough happen when a play breaks down like Clinton can. But if the O-line really gets a good sled going downhill, and he gets a head of steam, he can really get moving. I like how he attacks the first would be tackler instead of trying to escape him.[/QUOTE]A lot of people see Ladell as a straight line runner, and he certainly prides himself on power running, but he's not a huge guy and I'm very impressed by his combination of power and elusiveness. He is by no means a complete back at this point in his career, but he is a complete runner in the sense that he can get past you in so many ways.

Re: Ladell Betts in Saunders' offense
 

[quote=GTripp0012]A lot of people see Ladell as a straight line runner, and he certainly prides himself on power running, but he's not a huge guy and I'm very impressed by his combination of power and elusiveness. He is by no means a complete back at this point in his career, but he is a complete runner in the sense that he can get past you in so many ways.[/quote]

I agree with you on most of your point. But I would contend that he doesnt often show elusiveness. Or to put it another way, he doesnt generate open field misses.

Re: Ladell Betts in Saunders' offense
 

rock is more shifty than betts, and rock aint all that shifty.

Re: Ladell Betts in Saunders' offense
 

[QUOTE=That Guy]rock is more shifty than betts, and rock aint all that shifty.[/QUOTE]

ROCK.

I just love that guy's name! (Sorry to intrude, I'll go away now and lurk some more).

Re: Ladell Betts in Saunders' offense
 

Betts has gotta do good under saunders to take pressure off portis

Re: Ladell Betts in Saunders' offense
 

Just revisiting this thread b/c it appears that Saunders has really taken a liking to Betts:

[QUOTE=Wash. Times; June 19, 2006]Big on Betts
One player who has caught associate head coach Al Saunders' attention is running back Ladell Betts, who is again slated to be a kick returner and backup to Clinton Portis this season.
"I don't know if people realize what a quality player he is," Saunders said. "He's a three-dimensional player -- he runs the ball, he can catch it and he can block well enough to be successful. Clinton is Clinton, one of the dominant backs in the NFL. Having somebody like Ladell has been a surprise because I knew he was good, but not this good.
"We'll have situations where Ladell and Clinton will be in the game at the same time. Ladell deserves to play and we've got to find a way to get him on the field and not just as a back-up player to Clinton."[/QUOTE]

From: [url]http://www.washtimes.com/sports/20060619-022919-7816r_page2.htm[/url] (the article is on Hall and he hopes his surgery has solved his injury problems)

I have always liked Betts. It sounds like Saunders is pretty high on him. I think he is and has been a quality back that needed some seasoning. My guess is that he will be well utilized this year and then offered a starting job somewhere else next year. If this offense works as well as I think (and everyone hopes) it will, Betts could get a chance to shine no that he has had a chance to really learn and adapt to the pro game.

We'll see how it all works out during preseason.

Appropo of nothing in this thread - I really like the comments the players are making after mini-camp. Essentially that the talent on this team is much better than on the last few years and that players who's talent was good enough to make the team last year probably aren't talented enough to make this year's squad. They were naming names or pointing fingers, just saying that the bar has been risen.

I keep saying it (and am probably jinxing us bad) - but damn I think we are going to be scary good this year. A prolific offense and a stifling, hard-hitting defense. On top of that, the team is essentially returning all its starters and it seems that everyone who is here WANTS to be here and seems to have a sense that this is going to be something special.

Then again, its early, maybe I just had too much sugar in my coffee.