Will Our crappy O-Line kill cooleys production?
 

We have some talent on the line but they dont play like it. God I hate the left side...

My question is:
With 3 WR's, CP in the backfield and Cooley at TE, Is saunders going to keep cooley on the line to help block?
Portis is a great blocker but I think its safe to say that we would rather have the ball in his hands than cooleys.

I'm worried that Cooleys production will mostly come from 2nd and short plays.
Ideally, I would love to see cooley go down field taking a safety with him leaving the middle open for our WR's or vice versa, have our WR's take the safety deep and leave cooley over the middle being covered by a linebacker but I dont see our O-Line giving brunell enough time.

man its late, im going to sleep :(

Re: Will Our crappy O-Line kill cooleys production?
 

I really dont think that our line is all that bad, and no I dont think that Cooley will suffer from keeping him to block. I think that Cooley will still get his TD's and what not. Remember defenses will not be able to play us like they did in the past by stacking the box to stop Portis. If defenses played us like that then maybe we would need Cooley to block more, but being that we have other WR threats than just Moss I highly doubt they will stack the box and if they do we have enough offensive power to make them regret in doing so...

Re: Will Our crappy O-Line kill cooleys production?
 

i think this will be a big year for our line.might be one of the stronger suits of our team

Re: Will Our crappy O-Line kill cooleys production?
 

[quote=Redskins8588]I really dont think that our line is all that bad, and no I dont think that Cooley will suffer from keeping him to block. I think that Cooley will still get his TD's and what not. Remember defenses will not be able to play us like they did in the past by stacking the box to stop Portis. If defenses played us like that then maybe we would need Cooley to block more, but being that we have other WR threats than just Moss I highly doubt they will stack the box and if they do we have enough offensive power to make them regret in doing so...[/quote]

i couldn't agree more, opposing teams will not be able to put 8 in the box for fear of us burning them on a pass play

Re: Will Our crappy O-Line kill cooleys production?
 

[quote=Redskins8588]I really dont think that our line is all that bad, and no I dont think that Cooley will suffer from keeping him to block. I think that Cooley will still get his TD's and what not. Remember defenses will not be able to play us like they did in the past by stacking the box to stop Portis. If defenses played us like that then maybe we would need Cooley to block more, but being that we have other WR threats than just Moss I highly doubt they will stack the box and if they do we have enough offensive power to make them regret in doing so...[/quote]

I'll go one step further and say that suggesting that our line is crappy is downright crazy and makes no sense. First off, if we need a tight end to do some blocking for us, then Fauria will come in the game. Cooley will be expected to block about as often as Tony Gonzalez was expected to block.

Samuels is slightly overrated, but he's still a very good left tackle. He blocks all above average DEs in the game, the only guys he has trouble with are the superstars like Simeon Rice. Dockery is not a pass protection liability, he's so big that not too many DTs can get by him. The knock on Dockery in the past was always his discipline - too many penalties. But he curtailed that stuff last year, he was much better. He could still stand to improve his technique to harness all his power in run blocking, but overall he's solid. Rabach is unspectacular but solid, he's quick enough to get to the LB level of the defense, and he makes all the right calls on the line. Randy Thomas is a friggin beast, one of the best RGs in the game, big, athletic, and disciplined. Jansen is rock-solid, he struggles with guys like Strahan, but he can be relied on consistently.

Someone's going to have to convince me in what way our line is a weakness. That doesn't make any sense to me.

Re: Will Our crappy O-Line kill cooleys production?
 

A line that produces a 1500 yard back, a 3000 yard passer and pushes the team into the playoffs in November and December is hardly what I would call crappy. Oh...and all of them are returning for the third straight year.

Re: Will Our crappy O-Line kill cooleys production?
 

I think that it may be correct to say that our line has underacheived in the past, but I think that it is crazy to say that our starting line is any kind of liability. I expect them to be strong again heading down the stretch.

Re: Will Our crappy O-Line kill cooleys production?
 

Schneed had it right, Fauria was brought in for his excellent blocking ability.

Re: Will Our crappy O-Line kill cooleys production?
 

[quote=Kope]A line that produces a 1500 yard back, a 3000 yard passer and pushes the team into the playoffs in November and December is hardly what I would call crappy. Oh...and all of them are returning for the third straight year.[/quote]

TRUE, can't deny it. Like Schneed pointed out, Samuels may be somewhat overrated, but basically had a good year. Dockery is coming along nicely, if a little bit slow. While not the HOGS, they are solid. With the new recieving core, it should only help them!

Re: Will Our crappy O-Line kill cooleys production?
 

Calling our line crappy shows ignorance. Get some perspective and watch a team with a line that IS ACTUALLY bad. You'll see what a crappy line looks like. Is our line at "Hogs" level? Maybe not but it is in the top 10 in the league.

Re: Will Our crappy O-Line kill cooleys production?
 

I agree... our line is just fine... it struggled at times due to injuries to Jansen and Thomas. If healthy, it has the potential to be a top five OL.

Re: Will Our crappy O-Line kill cooleys production?
 

Someone on the boards was complaining about the line all last year around this time, I forget who it was now though.

Anyway, to suggest the line is crappy is pretty ridiculous. Didn't Samuels make the Pro Bowl last year?? Just checking. And Dock easily had his most solid season. I really don't see any logical reason to fret over the starters on the offensive line.

Samuels is one of the better LT's in the game, and Dock is a solid starter who is still coming into his own. Thomas and Jansen are both gamers who deserve more credit than they receive, and Rabach solidified the middle of the line last year.

Re: Will Our crappy O-Line kill cooleys production?
 

lets look at a couple of things : Samuels made the pro-bowl. Thomas was definately on his way to the probowl before breaking his leg and Jansen should have gone to the probowl, playing with two broken thumbs, and only receiving 3 penaltys all year and only 1 of those might have been holding. He was a beast last year and blew up who ever was in front of him. Rabach is a quality center and Dockery is a pretty good run blocker and is only into his 4th year. His pass blocking will improve with Buges teaching him. To say our line is crappy, is way..way..way..way.. out of line.

Re: Will Our crappy O-Line kill cooleys production?
 

[quote=#56fanatic] is way..way..way..way.. out of line.[/quote]

no pun intended:)

Re: Will Our crappy O-Line kill cooleys production?
 

Guys, we have a great O-line. The only problem is that we have only 5 guys that are great. We need to fine probably two more OL guys who can play one or more positions and then we will be truly great. We just saw what happens down the streach when we lose a starter last year. We really saw what happen when we lose other skill guys as well. I really think that if we would have had Patten and Randy Thomas in the Seattle playoff game, the results would have been different. It is tough when you have serious injuries.

Re: Will Our crappy O-Line kill cooleys production?
 

thomas and jansen are top 5 at their position, and samuels is in the 5-10 range too. rabach is average and dockery is average or slightly below, but calling this oline crappy is insane.

if its so bad, name at least 15 teams that have better overall offensive lines please.

Re: Will Our crappy O-Line kill cooleys production?
 

Ya WTF man our line is fine. I can easily say it is the best line in our division. Everyone elses is going through changes. We get a little better each year and I think you will see a major improvement this year. I mean you Buges coaching the line and Saunders is running the system. Kill this thread

Re: Will Our crappy O-Line kill cooleys production?
 

Puff-puff-pass, puff-puff-pass. Dude, you are doing too much puffing and not enough passing. To suggest that the Redskin offensive line is crappy is STUPID. The Skins offensive line is very good. It iss one of the better units in the NFL. The O-line could use a little more depth, but the starting five is as good as any unit in the NFL.

Re: Will Our crappy O-Line kill cooleys production?
 

I wouln't call the O line crappy by any means, when they are healthy it is very good line. The problem we have is depth, if we lose 1 or 2 starters it doesn't look good. I have faith though Bugel can coach some backups up before the season starts. I also agree with the fact that defenses are going to have to spread out against us, so that should help cut back on injurys.

Re: Will Our crappy O-Line kill cooleys production?
 

Depth is definitely the biggest concern. But before we go getting up in arms over it, maybe we should consider that the players we have signed/drafted recently are capable of performing when called upon. We haven't seen any of these guys play yet, so it's natural for us to worry because we don't have anyone proven. But Gibbs did go get Pucillo and Walter, plus Molinaro has been getting the Buges tutelage for 3 years now, plus our recent undrafted free agents. It's definitely an area we should be concerned about and we should be watching the performance of these guys in the preseason. But I guess all I'm saying is let's give them a chance to show us something. Just because Cory Raymer was a disaster last year when we had to play him at guard, that doen't necessarily mean our depth is a complete disaster this year. Let's wait and see.

Re: Will Our crappy O-Line kill cooleys production?
 

Why would you be concerned about Cooley's production when the KC tight-ends have flourished for many years in Al Saunder's offense.

Re: Will Our crappy O-Line kill cooleys production?
 

JAMF-
Frankly I do not care who gets the big prodution numbers this year: Moss, Llyod, Cooley, Patten, Jacobs, whoever.
All I care about is our Offense being strong and productive. I would rather our offense be balanced and have everyone get a piece of the pie rather than like last year where 2 or 3 guys get the big numbers. That will make our offense unpredictable and defenses can not key on Moss or Portis and eliminate them from the game.

Next year if Cooley's stats go in the shitter but we win the super bowl, I frankly would be happy.

I like Cooley and I do not want this to be taken like I think Cooley is not good, but the expectation level on Cooley by some on this sight is extremely high. Cooley MAY some day be a probowl type player, but he is not there yet. There are several other TE's with more name recongnition in front of him:

NFC
1) Alge Crumpler, ATL
2) Jason Witten, DAL
3) Jeremy Shockey, NYG

AFC
1) Tony Gonzalez, KC
2) Antonio Gates, SD

I am very happy with Cooley as a Redskin.

Re: Will Our crappy O-Line kill cooleys production?
 

Crappy o-line???:doh: This is like one of those half-assed threads on extremeskins. Come on!

Re: Will Our crappy O-Line kill cooleys production?
 

Lighten up guys!

I personally think our line is top ten material, however I don't think someone is stupid simply because their opinion does not match mine.

BTW, I think I could make good arguments either way.

Re: Will Our crappy O-Line kill cooleys production?
 

Hmm, I'm beginning to think a lot of people don't think we have a crappy o-line. You know....they're right. Our O-line was crappy during the Seattle seahawks game but that's about it.

Re: Will Our crappy O-Line kill cooleys production?
 

[quote=724Skinsfan]Hmm, I'm beginning to think a lot of people don't think we have a crappy o-line. You know....they're right. Our O-line was crappy during the Seattle seahawks game but that's about it.[/quote]

It's funny cuz I was watching something last night (I think it was nfl network) and they were discussing why everyone (Peyton included ?) was "throwing the Colts offensive line under the bus" (I guess as scapegoats) in the game against the steelers.

Re: Will Our crappy O-Line kill cooleys production?
 

Man, what the offseason would've been like if Vanderjagt had made that FG! Talk of Peyton not being able to get to the big game and the o-line sucking would gone right out the window. Hopefully Vandy will carry on the tradition in his new uniform.

Re: Will Our crappy O-Line kill cooleys production?
 

O-line is fine if Jansen and Thomas are healthy. If not, we have some depth issues to explore.

Re: Will Our crappy O-Line kill cooleys production?
 

The title of this thread is enough to get you laughed at. Exactly what does that mean?

Are you saying that Chris Cooley's high production with an offensive line that was just a little banged up, will be less with the same offensive line when it's completely healthy?

I mean, it's fun to argue and all, but you don't have a point.

Re: Will Our crappy O-Line kill cooleys production?
 

Ahahaha, well atleast you guys are united!!!

read my original post, I did say that they were talented. Jansen and thomas might be the best RG+LT in the game... I love them especially thomas.
But
I am not fond of Samuels, Dockery and that speed bump of a center. Samuels makes the probowl... Well only because most fans can only name 5 left tackles in the game and 6 go to the probowl.
Dockery has so much potential but as someone said earlier, he is to inconsistent.

If our guys are so good, why were we in MAX protect so often? putting 4 WR's in route helps Moss even if the other guys are scrubs. Most of the year it was Cooley and Moss going out for a pass on third down and thats it!

Also, can anyone honestly say that the redskins oline dominates in the running game? do you trust our guys to create a push on 3rd and short or goal?

Watch a good line Like seattle, On short yardage plays, they get so much push all alexander has to do is fall over.


Ignorant... PFFT!

Re: Will Our crappy O-Line kill cooleys production?
 

[QUOTE=Monksdown]The title of this thread is enough to get you laughed at. Exactly what does that mean?

Are you saying that Chris Cooley's high production with an offensive line that was just a little banged up, will be less with the same offensive line when it's completely healthy?

I mean, it's fun to argue and all, but you don't have a point.[/QUOTE]


It's a valid point.
Are you saying we arent going to double strahan or Uminyora? If we are doubling one of the(or both) who will be blocking? if cooley is blocking, is it save to say his production will be down? If cooley isnt blocking, is it safe to say he is by the cheerleaders on the sidelines?

what about demarcus ware for dallas?can our guys handle him one on one? Javon kearse?

Sometimes people are so narrow minded. Football is chess not checkers people...

Re: Will Our crappy O-Line kill cooleys production?
 

I can't tell if you're serious about this. Portis did break the Redskins single season rushing record. That can't be done with a crappy o-line. Someone in the Redskins front office seems to think Samuels is good for him to receive that huge contract ("Redskin for life!").In no way are they one of the best o-lines (Seattle, KC) but they are definitely above average.

Re: Will Our crappy O-Line kill cooleys production?
 

[quote=jamf]It's a valid point.
Are you saying we arent going to double strahan or Uminyora? If we are doubling one of the(or both) who will be blocking? if cooley is blocking, is it save to say his production will be down? If cooley isnt blocking, is it safe to say he is by the cheerleaders on the sidelines?

what about demarcus ware for dallas?can our guys handle him one on one? Javon kearse?

Sometimes people are so narrow minded. Football is chess not checkers people...[/quote]

Do you know how KC did it ? (not a rhetorical or sarcastic question)

I honestly don't know.

Re: Will Our crappy O-Line kill cooleys production?
 

[quote=jamf]It's a valid point.
Are you saying we arent going to double strahan or Uminyora? If we are doubling one of the(or both) who will be blocking? if cooley is blocking, is it save to say his production will be down? If cooley isnt blocking, is it safe to say he is by the cheerleaders on the sidelines?

what about demarcus ware for dallas?can our guys handle him one on one? Javon kearse?

Sometimes people are so narrow minded. Football is chess not checkers people...[/quote]
Cooley got 774 yards with that same o-line last year and they will only be better. The line handled those players last year fine and if we need an extra TE to block Fauria can do it. Cooley will block about as much as Gonzalez did last year, just like someone else said before this.

Re: Will Our crappy O-Line kill cooleys production?
 

That's the key to it: how did kc do it ? And can the skins oline do the same ? I'm hoping and assuming they can.

Re: Will Our crappy O-Line kill cooleys production?
 

I think we can assume that Cooley is going to be the primary receiving TE, and Fauria will be the primary blocking TE.

Cooley will likely be in motion alot to present defenses with matchup problems. Saunders knows how to utilize a TE, so my guess is we won't see Cooley tangled up with defensive ends too often.

Re: Will Our crappy O-Line kill cooleys production?
 

[quote=jamf]We have some talent on the line but they dont play like it. God I hate the left side...

My question is:
With 3 WR's, CP in the backfield and Cooley at TE, Is saunders going to keep cooley on the line to help block?
Portis is a great blocker but I think its safe to say that we would rather have the ball in his hands than cooleys.

I'm worried that Cooleys production will mostly come from 2nd and short plays.
Ideally, I would love to see cooley go down field taking a safety with him leaving the middle open for our WR's or vice versa, have our WR's take the safety deep and leave cooley over the middle being covered by a linebacker but I dont see our O-Line giving brunell enough time.

man its late, im going to sleep :([/quote]



You guys sure do worry an awful lot. You are worse than women!

Re: Will Our crappy O-Line kill cooleys production?
 

[QUOTE=jamf].......Sometimes people are so narrow minded. Football is chess not checkers people...[/QUOTE]

Football is also a team sport, for Super Bowl winning teams it is not be about individuals, it is about the team.
So why are so worried about Cooley? What about the team as a whole and winning the Super Bowl? If Cooley has to block - so be it.
It is part of the job description for a tight end anyway.

Re: Will Our crappy O-Line kill cooleys production?
 

Our line has def underachieved many times, and playing devils' advocate, Portis did break alot of records, bc he touched the ball ALOT, he had alot of carries. But the line still protected Brunell well, and got us through the season. Are we the best? No but we are one of the better lines in the league. Compare this line to the one we had with Spurrier(his plays took too long as well), our line is much better now. Now that we have more offensive threats, that will also take some pressure off the line, bc they have to cover all our recievers well.

Re: Will Our crappy O-Line kill cooleys production?
 

Im not worried about cooley. I would rather see speed guys with the ball in their hands...

But, cooley was an Hback last year, he didnt have to block. This year he will have blooking duties. Our line isnt as good as KC's if Gonzales was on our team he would probably have block more.