Art Monk vs Michael Irvin
 

In today's Monday Morning Quarterback Column, Peter King of SI.com said that Michael Irvin is the 3rd most deserving player (of those eligible) who has not yet been inducted into the Hall of Fame. Of course, he did not list Art Monk as someone who is deserving.

SI.com has a poll up on the main page right now, asking who is more deserving of HOF status, Irvin or Monk. Right now, the voters are favoring Monk 61% - 39%. Do your part and give Monk a vote. I want to see Irvin go down by at least 2-1, the numbers should at least get to 67% - 33%.

[URL="http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/"]http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/[/URL]

Re: Art Monk vs Michael Irvin
 

No surprise here. Art Monk seems to get Peter King's panties in a bunch.

Let's [I][B]War[/B][/I]p this poll!

Re: Art Monk vs Michael Irvin
 

Oh,,,,,,,,,,,The humanity of it all!

Re: Art Monk vs Michael Irvin
 

[quote]Catching 750 balls for a three-time Super Bowl winner and being the key guy in the locker room on game days ... that should make him a gimme.
[/quote]

jesus christ.

how about 888 for a three time SB winner and a leader in the locker room? What a riturdulous idiot King is. OMG what and idiot.

Re: Art Monk vs Michael Irvin
 

monk doesnt have a big mouth, never been arrested, and king hates the redskins. what did you guys expect him to say?

Re: Art Monk vs Michael Irvin
 

so 750 catches and 3 rings is a gimme, but 940 catches and 3 rings isn't... great math there.

Re: Art Monk vs Michael Irvin
 

[quote=That Guy]so 750 catches and 3 rings is a gimme, but 940 catches and 3 rings isn't... great math there.[/quote]
i was thinking the same thing but then saw that it was already posted twice before me

Peter King is such a moron

[IMG]http://i.a.cnn.net/si/.element/img/2.0/story/writers/new/topper_king_p_mmqb.jpg[/IMG]
just look at this queer....i wanna just punch him in his fat face


edit: I just wrote him an email that said
"In your article, you said, "Catching 750 balls for a three-time Super Bowl winner and being the key guy in the locker room on game days ... that should make him a gimme." How does that make Michael Irvin a gimme, but Art Monk, who caught 940 balls and won 3 superbowls, didn't even make the list. He had the most catches of all time when he retired. Stop being bias and just write and vote how you are supposed to. There is no way Michael Irvin should get in before Art Monk. Really Michael Irvin shouldn't get in at all or at least he should have to wait a while because he didn't do as well as Monk, and he played in a later time when receivers numbers were higher. You are a fat douchebag and I hate you."

Re: Art Monk vs Michael Irvin
 

His contention has alway's been Monk was never the best at his position in the league, and goes as far as to say he wasen't the best WR on his own team, but then he goes and makes a case for guys like Thomas who was never the best back in the league, all the while making a case for Ervin and how his leadership wouldn't allow his team to lose, yet not taking into account T.Thomas's lack of leadership that never allowed his team to win, and he can start with Thomas's losing his helmit at the start of the SB against us, which he was unable to start the game because of it.

So long as clowns like Peter King hold the key to the hall of fame how creditable is the nomination really?

Question how many NFL records do you have to break to get into the HOF? I know Monk broke more than all the players he mentioned getting the snub combigned!

Re: Art Monk vs Michael Irvin
 

[QUOTE=offiss]His contention has alway's been Monk was never the best at his position in the league, and goes as far as to say he wasen't the best WR on his own team, but then he goes and makes a case for guys like Thomas who was never the best back in the league, all the while making a case for Ervin and how his leadership wouldn't allow his team to lose, yet not taking into account T.Thomas's lack of leadership that never allowed his team to win, and he can start with Thomas's losing his helmit at the start of the SB against us, which he was unable to start the game because of it.

So long as clowns like Peter King hold the key to the hall of fame how creditable is the nomination really?

Question how many NFL records do you have to break to get into the HOF? I know Monk broke more than all the players he mentioned getting the snub combigned![/QUOTE]

I'm not against Thurman being a Hall of Famer necessarily, but that's a good point you make there

Re: Art Monk vs Michael Irvin
 

The [I][B][U]only[/U][/B][/I] receiver who should get into the HOF before Monk is Jerry Rice.

Re: Art Monk vs Michael Irvin
 

[QUOTE=That Guy]so 750 catches and 3 rings is a gimme, but 940 catches and 3 rings isn't... great math there.[/QUOTE]

Not saying I agree with it, but here's what he will say: Monk never actually had a significant role in any of the Superbowls he played in, (he was injured in XXII against the Broncos) and never once caught a touchdown in any of the three Big Games he was a part of.

Still, steveo is right -- he's a fat douchebag.

Re: Art Monk vs Michael Irvin
 

[quote=Beemnseven]Not saying I agree with it, but here's what he will say: Monk never actually had a significant role in any of the Superbowls he played in, (he was injured in XXII against the Broncos) and never once caught a touchdown in any of the three Big Games he was a part of.

Still, steveo is right -- he's a fat douchebag.[/quote]

but thurman thomas had to sit out a superbowl with a lost helmet, yet for him, that's somehow okay...

Re: Art Monk vs Michael Irvin
 

Mon night 6-5-6 @ 8:43

Monk 63%
Irvin 37%

Re: Art Monk vs Michael Irvin
 

[quote=That Guy]but thurman thomas had to sit out a superbowl with a lost helmet, yet for him, that's somehow okay...[/quote]he played in that game he just didnt start

Re: Art Monk vs Michael Irvin
 

[QUOTE=That Guy]but thurman thomas had to sit out a superbowl with a lost helmet, yet for him, that's somehow okay...[/QUOTE]

I remember him sitting out for the first two or three plays of Super Bowl 26 against the Skins for not being able to find his helmet, but not the whole game.

For the record though, I'm not sure that Thurman Thomas is a lock for the Hall. To me, he's one of those "fringe" players, a very good player, but not a Hall of Famer.

Re: Art Monk vs Michael Irvin
 

i have said it before and i will say it again.
monk will get in when darrel green gets in.i think green is a first ballot hofer and monk will get inducted that same year! that will be a great day my fellow skins fans and then we will all get our chance to colectively tell king to suck it!

Re: Art Monk vs Michael Irvin
 

Here are some quotes I found that tell it all: "Monk's most noteworthy NFL accomplishment was his record for career receptions (940), broken by Jerry Rice during the final week of 1995, Monk's last season in the league. Despite being the first to eclipse 900 receptions, as well as retiring with the single season receptions record (106) and the most consecutive games with a catch (183)"..."Monk has more receptions than any receiver currently in the Hall of Fame, and has more receptions than Hall of Famers Lynn Swann and John Stallworth combined. His statistics are similar to those of James Lofton, a 2003 inductee"..."former Dallas Cowboys wide receiver Michael Irvin is often referred to as a "future Hall of Famer" on the air by his broadcasting contemporaries, yet he has fewer touchdowns, yards, and receptions (190 fewer) than Monk"...And finally "An interesting note is that from the modern era, there are 24 running backs in the Hall of Fame, 23 quarterbacks, but only 17 wide receivers. Monk was named the 91st best football player of all time by the Sporting News, ranking him behind only 8 receivers."
Courtesy of [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_Monk[/url]

I wish Art Monk could run into Peter King in an Alley somewhere...

Re: Art Monk vs Michael Irvin
 

[QUOTE=gusbus]I wish Art Monk could run into Peter King in an Alley somewhere...[/QUOTE]

Being the classy guy he is, Art would simply say hello and go his own way.

Now, If I, and a few others from this site, ran into King in an alley ....

Re: Art Monk vs Michael Irvin
 

Oh yeah Irvin's QB = Troy Aikman HOF; Monk's QBs = Theismann, Schrader, Williams, Rypien none of whom are HOFs

Re: Art Monk vs Michael Irvin
 

And even Aikman should not have ben a first ballot HOF either!!!!!!!

Re: Art Monk vs Michael Irvin
 

[QUOTE=gusbus]Oh yeah Irvin's QB = Troy Aikman HOF; Monk's QBs = Theismann, Schrader, Williams, Rypien none of whom are HOFs[/QUOTE]


Good point...

Re: Art Monk vs Michael Irvin
 

[QUOTE=Redskins8588]And even Aikman should not have ben a first ballot HOF either!!!!!!![/QUOTE]

I'm gonna have disagree with you redskins8288. As much as I hate to admit it....Aikman deserved to be a first ballot HOFamer.

Still though, Monk should've been inducted years ago....

Re: Art Monk vs Michael Irvin
 

Why? I am not saying that Aikman should not have ben a first ballot HOF just because he was a cowboy, I am saying it because look at the talent that he had with him and then look at his stats. He is lucky to break the top 15 in each major QB stat catagory.

Out of Passing Completion, Passint TD's, and Passing Yards, Aikman only breaks the top 20 in Passing Completion where he is ranked #12 with 2,898. In the other catagories he is non-existant in the top 20. Now that is HOF worthy?

Re: Art Monk vs Michael Irvin
 

oh and here is my link for my info...
[url]http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/alltime/leaders?cat=complete[/url]

Re: Art Monk vs Michael Irvin
 

Redskins P, I will give credit where credit is due and I just dont think that Aikmans career justifies him being a first ballot HOF. Just like when Steve Young was a first ballot HOF, I did not agree with that also, they were first ballot HOF'ers because of the talent that they had around them, IMO. I remember argueing about this with Matty when Young was selected. I do however agree with them selecting Warren Moon, he is ranked atleast 4th or 5th on the big 3 QB stats and he did it with just about no one helping him...

Re: Art Monk vs Michael Irvin
 

[quote=Redskins8588]Redskins P, I will give credit where credit is due and I just dont think that Aikmans career justifies him being a first ballot HOF. Just like when Steve Young was a first ballot HOF, I did not agree with that also, they were first ballot HOF'ers because of the talent that they had around them, IMO. I remember argueing about this with Matty when Young was selected. I do however agree with them selecting Warren Moon, he is ranked atleast 4th or 5th on the big 3 QB stats and he did it with just about no one helping him...[/quote]Young is easily one of the 5 best of all time. Aikman isn't in the top 15, and top 20 is pushing it.

Re: Art Monk vs Michael Irvin
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012]Young is easily one of the 5 best of all time. Aikman isn't in the top 15, and top 20 is pushing it.[/QUOTE]
I still am not sold on Young, I can see how some may believe him to be a top QB but I just dont buy it. Esp. not one of the 5 best all time....

Re: Art Monk vs Michael Irvin
 

I wonder how many Wr's in the HOF played with HOF QB's? That may also shed some light on their success compartiably to Monk. Jerry Rice played with 2, Ervin played with 1, how bout someone do a breakdown on that one, Tafkas you may be useful in this area.:)

Re: Art Monk vs Michael Irvin
 

i might have to agree with gtripp on young.one of the best in our lifetime, and maybe....top 5 of all time. if stats are the measuring stick then no way does aikman get in

Re: Art Monk vs Michael Irvin
 

So you are putting Young ahead of Elway, Marino, Favre, Moon, Montana, Tarkenton, Johnny Unitas, Jim Kelly, Dan Fouts, and hell even Peyton Manning is ahead of Young in yards, TD's, and completions. I just dont see why everyone is sold on Young, yeah he was good but not top 5, IMO...

Re: Art Monk vs Michael Irvin
 

[QUOTE=Redskins8588]So you are putting Young ahead of Elway, Marino, Favre, Moon, Montana, Tarkenton, Johnny Unitas, Jim Kelly, Dan Fouts, and hell even Peyton Manning is ahead of Young in yards, TD's, and completions. I just dont see why everyone is sold on Young, yeah he was good but not top 5, IMO...[/QUOTE]


You got that right, he was the benefactor of the west coast dink and dunk offense, he did nothing in the pro's until he arrived in san fran, and look how long it took him to accomplish that offense, but as usual people fall in love with a media darling and Young was definitly that, he was one of the greatest running QB's ever though I will give him that much. He couldn't come close to Montana in the same offense. 4-1 SB victories Montana

Re: Art Monk vs Michael Irvin
 

Sports writers are stupid, and they only make statements which are popular. That way, when they are proven wrong, they don't catch too much gruff because what they said was what everyone else was saying. Peter King wrote the book on this strategy.

Re: Art Monk vs Michael Irvin
 

How do you email Peter King? I want to give him a piece of my mind.

Re: Art Monk vs Michael Irvin
 

[quote=Redskins8588]So you are putting Young ahead of Elway, Marino, Favre, Moon, Montana, Tarkenton, Johnny Unitas, Jim Kelly, Dan Fouts, and hell even Peyton Manning is ahead of Young in yards, TD's, and completions. I just dont see why everyone is sold on Young, yeah he was good but not top 5, IMO...[/quote]He completed more than 64% of his passes. Even in the west coast offense, that's unbelieveable. No one else is even close to that. Not even Montana who played in the same system. For my money, only Elway, Marino, and Montana have achieved more greatness than Young.

Re: Art Monk vs Michael Irvin
 

[email]bigfatdouchebag@si.com[/email]

Stats wise, I know Monk didn't do that much in the four Super Bowls he was in (although I think he was injured for one, right?), but how did he perform throughout his playoff career? The Skins routed everyone in the '91 playoffs, what were Monk's numbers in those games?

Also, how has Skip Bayless not written an article about Monk/HOF yet? He obviously would refer to it as "The Hall of Shame" and use other such stupid puns to make his point, but at least I bet he'd be on Monk's side.

Re: Art Monk vs Michael Irvin
 

elway, favre and montana would be the only three on your list i would consider ahead of young. marino and moon put up monstorous numbers playing in a throw first offense with exactly 0 super bowl wins between them. in my eyes greatness almost always = championships

Re: Art Monk vs Michael Irvin
 

[quote=dmek25]elway, favre and montana would be the only three on your list i would consider ahead of young. marino and moon put up monstorous numbers playing in a throw first offense with exactly 0 super bowl wins between them. in my eyes greatness almost always = championships[/quote]

then where's tom brady or terry bradshaw?

Re: Art Monk vs Michael Irvin
 

im not sure about bradshaw? thatguy, do you have any stats on him? i was younger when the whole steel curtain thing went down and couldnt tell how good he was because that team was just so superior to everyone else. brady is on the fast track to the hall but longevity is also a key factor

Re: Art Monk vs Michael Irvin
 

[quote=Redskins8588]Why? I am not saying that Aikman should not have ben a first ballot HOF just because he was a cowboy, I am saying it because look at the talent that he had with him and then look at his stats. He is lucky to break the top 15 in each major QB stat catagory.

Out of Passing Completion, Passint TD's, and Passing Yards, Aikman only breaks the top 20 in Passing Completion where he is ranked #12 with 2,898. In the other catagories he is non-existant in the top 20. Now that is HOF worthy?[/quote]

His career was cut way short due to concussions (yeah #56). His numbers are pretty damn good for the years he played, plus winning 3 bowls. the guy deserves to be in the hall no matter what his numbers say against current members. Had he played another 5 years he would probably be in the top 5 in just about all catagories.

Re: Art Monk vs Michael Irvin
 

[quote=Beemnseven]Not saying I agree with it, but here's what he will say: Monk never actually had a significant role in any of the Superbowls he played in, (he was injured in XXII against the Broncos) and never once caught a touchdown in any of the three Big Games he was a part of.[/quote]

Gotta disagree here.

In XXVI against Buffalo he had 7 catches for 113 yards and simply dominated the Bills on one of the first half drives that ended in his TD being taken away by replay. It always amazes me how people like King don't even acknowledge this performance.