Ramsey update
 

[URL="http://www.nj.com/jets/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/1150609912112820.xml&coll=1"]Rookie Clemens emerges in Jets' QB battle[/URL]

[quote]
Ramsey, who was a tackling dummy in Washington under former coach Steve Spurrier, was a mild disappointment. He has the arm but missed several open receivers and his penchant for interceptions reared its ugly head. His frustration boiled over as he was visibly upset at times.

"You're out there competing and you want to do everything perfect every time," Ramsey said.
[/quote]

Re: Ramsey update
 

The Jets aren't giving him a fair chance!!! How dare they have defenders and open receivers on the field!!!

Re: Ramsey update
 

Damn, wish we would have kept him.

Every time I read something like this it reminds me why we're all not head coaches.

Re: Ramsey update
 

You know if Ramsey doesn't produce up there people will say he's in a bad offense or so and so ruined his career. I

've always thought he would be a very solid QB, but never a great one.

Re: Ramsey update
 

I realy liked Ramsey the person and realy hope that he can turn things around and get his career on track. It does not sound all that great and he may end up off the team or a 3rd string QB. Maybe they are now seeing what Gibbs knew and thats why he is no longer here and maybe a few people will quit second guessing Gibbs ability to evaluate talent.

Re: Ramsey update
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection]Damn, wish we would have kept him.

Every time I read something like this it reminds me why we're all not head coaches.[/QUOTE]

Wait, we're not?

Re: Ramsey update
 

Perhaps we're beginning to learn that sometimes a guy doesn't get a fair shake because he doesn't earn it.

There are players in the NFL that aren't nearly as good as Ramsey, but they don't have the expectations that he suffered under. It's a shame because he seems to be a stand-up guy. Unfortunately, the chances he was given weren't successful, often for reasons outside his ability to control.

Re: Ramsey update
 

[QUOTE=BrudLee]Perhaps we're beginning to learn that sometimes a guy doesn't get a fair shake because he doesn't earn it.

There are players in the NFL that aren't nearly as good as Ramsey, but they don't have the expectations that he suffered under. It's a shame because he seems to be a stand-up guy. [B]Unfortunately, the chances he was given weren't successful, often for reasons outside his ability to control.[/B][/QUOTE]

Or more simply, just outside his ability altogether.

He's a nice guy, but at a certain point you've got to admit he's not cut out to be a #1 QB in the NFL. Doesn't make him any less of a nice guy, just means he doesn't have the talent.

Re: Ramsey update
 

[quote=BrudLee]There are players in the NFL that aren't nearly as good as Ramsey, but they don't have the expectations that he suffered under. It's a shame because he seems to be a stand-up guy. Unfortunately, the chances he was given weren't successful, often for reasons outside his ability to control.[/quote]

This is the most intelligent comment on this topic. Ramsey is better than the two quarterbacks that were selected before him in the draft, and they've both had three full seasons to mature. Harrington fizzled out, but until last season, he had the full support of the coaching staff. Carr still has the support of his team, and he has yet to prove anything except that he was picked WAY too early in the draft.

Meanwhile, Ramsey was circle jerked in an out of the lineup by Spurrier, and then blackballed by Gibbs. His maturation suffered, and eventually the fans turned on him. My only hope is that Campbell doesn't throw a pick in his first start, otherwise he'll be a bust in the eyes of typical Redskins fans.

Re: Ramsey update
 

[QUOTE=Southpaw]This is the most intelligent comment on this topic. [B]Ramsey is better than the two quarterbacks that were selected before him in the draft[/B], and they've both had three full seasons to mature. Harrington fizzled out, but until last season, he had the full support of the coaching staff. Carr still has the support of his team, and he has yet to prove anything except that he was picked WAY too early in the draft.

Meanwhile, Ramsey was circle jerked in an out of the lineup by Spurrier, and then blackballed by Gibbs. His maturation suffered, and eventually the fans turned on him. My only hope is that Campbell doesn't throw a pick in his first start, otherwise he'll be a bust in the eyes of typical Redskins fans.[/QUOTE]

What proof do you have to back that up?

Re: Ramsey update
 

[quote=mheisig]What proof do you have to back that up?[/quote]

Ummmm... which part?

Re: Ramsey update
 

[QUOTE=Southpaw]Ummmm... which part?[/QUOTE]

The part from your post that I put in gigantic bold text. Let's try again:

[QUOTE=Southpaw][B]Ramsey is better than the two quarterbacks that were selected before him in the draft[/B][/QUOTE]

Not trying to be an ass, I'm just honestly curious.

Re: Ramsey update
 

[quote=Southpaw]This is the most intelligent comment on this topic. Ramsey is better than the two quarterbacks that were selected before him in the draft, and they've both had three full seasons to mature. Harrington fizzled out, but until last season, he had the full support of the coaching staff. Carr still has the support of his team, and he has yet to prove anything except that he was picked WAY too early in the draft.

Meanwhile, Ramsey was circle jerked in an out of the lineup by Spurrier, and then blackballed by Gibbs. His maturation suffered, and eventually the fans turned on him. My only hope is that Campbell doesn't throw a pick in his first start, otherwise he'll be a bust in the eyes of typical Redskins fans.[/quote]

I don't think it's fair to say Ramsey was blackballed by Gibbs...how so? Gibbs simply chose and went witht he QB he thought gave the team the best chance at winning. Period. Fair or unfair, that's life in the NFL.

In my opinion, exceptional quaterbacks rise above the circumstances and situations handed to them and still perform. One thing we know for sure, Ramsey had a shot to prove himself. Whether his maturity was stunted by outside circumstances is debatable. But what isn't is that he had his chance, and for sure he's getting another shot in NY.

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[quote=12thMan]I don't think it's fair to say Ramsey was blackballed by Gibbs...how so? Gibbs simply chose and went witht he QB he thought gave the team the best chance at winning. Period. Fair or unfair, that's life in the NFL.

In my opinion, exceptional quaterbacks rise above the circumstances and situations handed to them and still perform. One thing we know for sure, Ramsey had a shot to prove himself. Whether his maturity was stunted by outside circumstances is debatable. But what isn't is that he had his chance, and for sure he's getting another shot in NY.[/quote]

Some people just don't understand take the fact that Ramsey wasn't Gibbs guy from the start. He didn't owe him anything. Saying that Gibbs 'blackballed' him is just ridiculous and flys in the face of everything that Gibbs is all about.

Re: Ramsey update
 

[quote=mheisig]Not trying to be an ass, I'm just honestly curious.[/quote]

Career Numbers:

Joey Harrington - Average of 186 yards per start. Two more picks than TD's for his career. 68.1 career QB Rating.

David Carr - Average of 180 yards per start. Five more picks than TD's for his career. 73.7 career QB Rating.

[B]Patrick Ramsey - Average of 235 yards per start. Five more TD's than picks for his career. 75.0 career QB Rating.[/B]

And yet, Carr and Harrington have each "earned" 30+ more starts than Ramsey...

Re: Ramsey update
 

Yet he's getting beat out by a rookie at the moment and may not even make it through training camp...

Re: Ramsey update
 

[quote=Mattyk72]Some people just don't understand take the fact that Ramsey wasn't Gibbs guy from the start. He didn't owe him anything. Saying that Gibbs 'blackballed' him is just ridiculous and flys in the face of everything that Gibbs is all about.[/quote]

I don't get why, or seemingly, people are so emotionally attached to Ramsey.

Re: Ramsey update
 

[quote=Southpaw]Career Numbers:

Joey Harrington - Average of 186 yards per start. Two more picks than TD's for his career. 68.1 career QB Rating.

David Carr - Average of 180 yards per start. Five more picks than TD's for his career. 73.7 career QB Rating.

[B]Patrick Ramsey - Average of 235 yards per start. Five more TD's than picks for his career. 75.0 career QB Rating.[/B]

And yet, Carr and Harrington have each "earned" 30+ more starts than Ramsey...[/quote]

Don't you think the numbers are, in fact, skewed by the difference in number of starts?

Re: Ramsey update
 

[quote=12thMan]I don't get why, or seemingly, people are so emotionally attached to Ramsey.[/quote]

I can understand it to a point, he was supposed to be our QB for the next decade. When he came in his rookie year and lit up the Titans, we thought we had our Brett Favre. But there comes a point where you have to take the emotion out of it and face reality.

Re: Ramsey update
 

I don't think Heath Shuler got a fair deal. I'm still pissed about that...

Re: Ramsey update
 

[quote=Mattyk72]Some people just don't understand take the fact that Ramsey wasn't Gibbs guy from the start. He didn't owe him anything. Saying that Gibbs 'blackballed' him is just ridiculous and flys in the face of everything that Gibbs is all about.[/quote]

Actually, I understand that point perfectly. Gibbs said before that start of last season, that Ramsey was his guy, even though we all found out very quickly, that Ramsey was NOT his guy. I used the term "blackmalled" for affect, but at the very least, Gibbs lied.

This is all a moot point anyway since it happened better than a year ago. I just voiced my opinion because I wholeheartedly disagree with the attitude of most Redskin fans, that Ramsey got a fair shake.

Re: Ramsey update
 

[QUOTE=Southpaw]Career Numbers:

Joey Harrington - Average of 186 yards per start. Two more picks than TD's for his career. 68.1 career QB Rating.

David Carr - Average of 180 yards per start. Five more picks than TD's for his career. 73.7 career QB Rating.

[B]Patrick Ramsey - Average of 235 yards per start. Five more TD's than picks for his career. 75.0 career QB Rating.[/B]

And yet, Carr and Harrington have each "earned" 30+ more starts than Ramsey...[/QUOTE]

Ok, I can see your point - stat-wise Ramsey is a [I]little[/I] better than Harrington and Carr. You could also chalk that slight difference up to Ramsey be surrounded by generally better personnel than Carr or Harrington.

Even looking at the stats though doesn't really say much about ANY of them. It's like arguing that this turd smells better than that one. All three of them are abysmal.

Like Matty and 12th said, Gibbs nor anyone else on the team is obligated to owe Ramsey anything, and a truly great QB would rise above the challenge. I just watched the Skins vs Bears game from last season and Ramsey was pretty atrocious prior to being pulled. Gibbs was justified in doing that.

I'm not sure why people can't even entertain the possibility that Ramsey is not cut out to be a #1 QB. How many years of mediocracy does it take? Blaming the system or the coach just gets silly after a while. Just because teams like the Texans or Lions (keep in mind these are consistently mismanaged, losing organizations) give their crappy QB more of a chance doesn't mean we should. If anything we should do the exact opposite and try to avoid the same fate as either of those two.

If you have a subpar QB you pull him and put someone else in. Supporting mediocracy for year after year is exactly why the Texans and Lions suck donkey balls, and I'm glad Coach Gibbs is smarter than that.

Re: Ramsey update
 

[quote=Southpaw]Actually, I understand that point perfectly. Gibbs said before that start of last season, that Ramsey was his guy, even though we all found out very quickly, that Ramsey was NOT his guy. I used the term "blackmalled" for affect, but at the very least, Gibbs lied.

This is all a moot point anyway since it happened better than a year ago. I just voiced my opinion because I wholeheartedly disagree with the attitude of most Redskin fans, that Ramsey got a fair shake.[/quote]

Gibbs didn't lie about anything. Ramsey was never his guy in that Gibbs inherited him, he didn't hand pick him.

He gave Ramsey the chance to win the job, and he stunk it up all preseason and was stinking it up against the Bears before he got knocked out of the game.

Life isn't fair, get over it.

Re: Ramsey update
 

[QUOTE=Southpaw]Actually, I understand that point perfectly. Gibbs said before that start of last season, that Ramsey was his guy, even though we all found out very quickly, that Ramsey was NOT his guy. I used the term "blackmalled" for affect, but at the very least, Gibbs lied.

This is all a moot point anyway since it happened better than a year ago. I just voiced my opinion because I wholeheartedly disagree with the attitude of most Redskin fans, that Ramsey got a fair shake.[/QUOTE]

At the time I'm sure Gibbs thought Ramsey WAS his guy. Just because he realized Ramsey can't cut it and pulled him doesn't mean he lied. If Ramsey put up crappy numbers year after year should Gibbs keep sticking with him until they're both in the grave or fired simply because Gibbs once said "Ramsey, you're our guy"?

Fact is Ramsey got pulled from the Bears game for a number of reasons. A fumble and interception in the first quarter, one wildly high pass after another, and generally looking extremely unsettled and uncomfortable in the pocket. There's no arguing about all that - I watched the game last night and the camera doesn't lie.

I'm sure there were alot more reasons and misgivings that Gibbs had prior to that game too. It wasn't based on 10 odd minutes of crappy performance.

Having Brunell come in and manage the game like a pro didn't really help Ramsey either. The better QB got played, plain and simple.

Re: Ramsey update
 

[quote=Mattyk72]Gibbs didn't lie about anything. Ramsey was never his guy in that Gibbs inherited him, he didn't hand pick him.

He gave Ramsey the chance to win the job, and he stunk it up all preseason and was stinking it up against the Bears before he got knocked out of the game.

Life isn't fair, get over it.[/quote]

That's funny. I have to "get over it", but you intentionally start a negative thread about Ramsey, so that everyone can say "Haha! Ramsey sucks." God forbid someone disagrees.

Re: Ramsey update
 

I agree with Matty absolutely. Ramsey was given the starting job. He performed incompetently. He was replaced by a far better quarterback.


[quote=Mattyk72]Gibbs didn't lie about anything. Ramsey was never his guy in that Gibbs inherited him, he didn't hand pick him.

He gave Ramsey the chance to win the job, and he stunk it up all preseason and was stinking it up against the Bears before he got knocked out of the game.

Life isn't fair, get over it.[/quote]

Re: Ramsey update
 

[quote=Southpaw]That's funny. I have to "get over it", but you intentionally start a negative thread about Ramsey, so that everyone can say "Haha! Ramsey sucks." God forbid someone disagrees.[/quote]

I wasn't trying to start a negative thread. Ramsey is still a popular guy, so I think it was a perfectly relevant topic to address. It's not my problem that some still have man crushes on the guy and can't accept that he's just not that good.

If the article said he was having a great camp I would have posted it just the same.

Re: Ramsey update
 

[QUOTE=Southpaw]That's funny. I have to "get over it", but you intentionally start a negative thread about Ramsey, so that everyone can say "Haha! Ramsey sucks." God forbid someone disagrees.[/QUOTE]
Boo hoo. You weren't right 9 months ago, and you aren't right now. Get over it.

Re: Ramsey update
 

[quote=Mattyk72]I wasn't trying to start a negative thread. Ramsey is still a popular guy, so I think it was a perfectly relevant topic to address. It's not my problem that some still have man crushes on the guy and can't accept that he's just not that good.[/quote]

Kind of like some peoples man crush on Joe Gibbs:silly: . My point was only that Ramsey didn't get a fair shake as compared to his peers. I agree that he's basically ruined now. While I do hope he can salvage his career somewhere, he's probably going to be stuck in a backup role for the rest of it.

Re: Ramsey update
 

[quote=Southpaw]Kind of like some peoples man crush on Joe Gibbs:silly: .
[/quote]

Yeah, well my man has 3 Lombardi trophies. All yours has is a bronze medal from the Pan American Games for his javelin abilities.

Re: Ramsey update
 

[QUOTE=Southpaw]Kind of like some peoples man crush on Joe Gibbs:silly: . My point was only that Ramsey didn't get a fair shake as compared to his peers. I agree that he's basically ruined now. While I do how he can salvage his career somewhere, he's probably going to be stuck in a backup role for the rest of it.[/QUOTE]

Difference is Gibbs is worthy of a man crush;) Three Super Bowl rings is a little different than a handful of abysmal seasons as a QB.

The real point you need to grasp is that, yes, Ramsey maybe didn't get as much a chance as Carr or Harrington - maybe that's cause none of the three deserved that much of a chance. Your argument that we should give Ramsey as much a shot as the other two will have this team turning out like the Texans and Lions, which is NOT where we want to be.

Re: Ramsey update
 

You can accuse me all day of man crushing Gibbs, he's earned it.

Re: Ramsey update
 

[quote=Southpaw]Actually, I understand that point perfectly. Gibbs said before that start of last season, that Ramsey was his guy, even though we all found out very quickly, that Ramsey was NOT his guy. I used the term "blackmalled" for affect, but at the very least, Gibbs lied.[/quote]

or maybe he changed his mind after watching him play poorly and brunell play much better.

Re: Ramsey update
 

I'm glad we've unloaded Ramsey. He had a strong arm for sure, but he never matured mentally as a pro QB. In his third year, he STILL played like a rookie. Something was wrong upstairs with him. I'm not saying he's dumb, just not able to handle the pressure of an NFL QB.

Stats were mentioned, but numbers don't show things like STUPID interceptions thrown near the opposing team's goal line, fumbles, bad decisions and overall bad play. Ramsey could throw a 50 yard TD in the first quarter and then throw a game-costing pick at the end of the game. When Brunell replaced him, I was so relieved.

Re: Ramsey update
 

oh yeah, if we give give him three years of starting games and he did prove to be better than carr or harrington by just a bit, you know what that means? we'd probably have 3 years of bad QB play and a terrible record to go with it :(

he didn't exactly blow people away.

Re: Ramsey update
 

[quote=mheisig]Difference is Gibbs is worthy of a man crush;) Three Super Bowl rings is a little different than a handful of abysmal seasons as a QB.

The real point you need to grasp is that, yes, Ramsey maybe didn't get as much a chance as Carr or Harrington - maybe that's cause none of the three deserved that much of a chance. Your argument that we should give Ramsey as much a shot as the other two will have this team turning out like the Texans and Lions, which is NOT where we want to be.[/quote]

I think we gave Ramsey TOO MANY chances. He plays like a rookie QB every year. His mistakes are understandable for a rookie or even second-year player, but when you're still making rookie mistakes when you've played for 3 years, something tells me you're not cut out to be a starter in the NFL.

Re: Ramsey update
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]You can accuse me all day of man crushing Gibbs, he's earned it.[/QUOTE]

And we all know it takes some serious accomplishments to earn a man crush from Matty. Lord knows I've been trying for a while.

Re: Ramsey update
 

1) Carr and Harrington never had to compete with a former pro-bowler who took the Jaguars to the AFC Championship game in the 90s. If they had, they would have been yanked a long time ago. Hell, Harrington gave way to Jeff Garcia and Mike McMahon at times. The fact that they "earned" their way onto the field doesn't say anything about them; it says that the Detriot and Houston front offices suck at finding backup QBs. There's a reason they're mired in such losing situations right now.

2) I've been saying it for AGES; Ramsey is inaccurate as hell, especially on deep balls. I'm not surprised at all that he is having trouble hitting receivers in camp. I never saw him throw bombs with any semblance of accuracy while he was here; he can throw the short patterns on a rope, but long bombs and touch passes, he flat out SUCKS. That's reality. He's not a starting NFL quarterback, that's just reality.

Re: Ramsey update
 

[quote=Southpaw]Career Numbers:

Joey Harrington - Average of 186 yards per start. Two more picks than TD's for his career. 68.1 career QB Rating.

David Carr - Average of 180 yards per start. Five more picks than TD's for his career. 73.7 career QB Rating.

[B]Patrick Ramsey - Average of 235 yards per start. Five more TD's than picks for his career. 75.0 career QB Rating.[/B]

And yet, Carr and Harrington have each "earned" 30+ more starts than Ramsey...[/quote]So you say that Harrington and Carr are not as good as Ramsey but to prove that Ramsey is talented you compare his stat to their's. Ok. So if other team stick with non producing QB's we should too?

Re: Ramsey update
 

[QUOTE=firstdown]So you say that Harrington and Carr are not as good as Ramsey but to prove that Ramsey is talented you compare his stat to their's. Ok. So if other team stick with non producing QB's we should too?[/QUOTE]

No, actually he was responding to someone who challenged him to show proof that he is better than Harrington and Carr...